Hi, I have a question. I have not found any answer on this at forum. Do shifter's shapechanges change race?
E.g.: I have subrace of outsider, so I am vulnerable to dismissals et sim. Then I change myself to undead vampire. Am I still vulnerable to word of faith and dismissals et sim.? (Or race changes to undead with all attributes).
Thanks for answers in advance.
_________________ Ashi | Baga | Charva CET timezone
Hi, thanks for answer. And is there any way at all, how to protect oneself against this banishment/WoF vulnerability? I have found that mindblank doesn't work (not sure if another mind-affects immunities do).
_________________ Ashi | Baga | Charva CET timezone
Spell Resistance & Mantles. I'm not sure if Death Ward helps against any forms of Banishment, but it might. Shapeshifters tend to have high will saves, so you shouldn't be too susceptible to those spells.
By the time you have Outsider shape, you will have huge Will + won't be up against enemies who banish. The undead stuff is more difficult to defend against. Comes down to picking the right shape for the right situation.
What would be considered a respectable AC, AB for a front liner here? Is mid 40ish acceptable? What about saves? What would be considered good with regards to will, fort & reflex?
40+ Fort/Will/Reflex for PvP and PvBoss. Saves are almost irrelevant for XPing - with potions and item buffing there's so few places where you can't immunise yourself against the effects that you can get to 30 without ever rolling one that matters.
<50AC is fine for the second-line meleers; twohanderers or dualwielders. Hopelessly inadequate for end-game tanking, unless you have crazy DwD18 Epic DR. 55AC is fine if there's two or you of the front line. 60+AC means you can surf 20's on just about everything.
That kinda means you have Haste or you go home, Monks and high-CHA Divine Shield types excepted. You can drop about 5AC from that in the ECL20-25 stretch; it's just the nature of the game that STR-tank AC gets to within 3-5 points of maximum by level 20(well before it, really), and consequently mob AB is balanced around that.
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Yep. Without Divine Grace or Dark Blessing and lots of CHA, the only option open to most folk is to boost one save to 40 and hope the other two don't get attacked until after you've got the appropriate negating potion or item buff on.
If you are DEX, CON or WIS-based, then usually the relevant save will be sky-high naturally, so it's only one save that gets abandoned.
I think he means is it bard+PM levels or just bard levels or just PM levels.
I'm going with just the 5 bard levels because PM doesn't work nicely with Bard usually. I could be wrong.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Build highlights: It's got Epic Dodge, 10d6 Sneaks, no-item dualwielding and can buff at least +12AB, +15dmg/hit, +9AC for viable bursts.
Downsides: painfully low HP and saves, very vulnerable to Dispel, a really bad 38AB except for the buffed periods. Admittedly Bless and Aid will pop that to 40 all day with no fuss, but that's still shit.
Overview: It's a bosskiller, innit? Will also have a niche in PvP of cornersneaking, buffing skyhigh and then popping out of stealth as a god of war for 9-18 rounds.
Rogue19/Ranger1/Cleric10 without the awesomesauce of Divine Might/Shield, therefore more INT/CON, less CHA/STR and three pre-epic feats freed up is available to almost every race, and doesn't necessitate the ECL+1 or multiclassing penalty.
I would have to see them both in action before I could decide which route is better. Divine Might/Shield is fearsome, but the builds without it are still hard to hit and do massive DPS, and you don't need ECL or the brutal CON drain. The big problem of Epic Dodgers is their crap AB, not their defence, and the 19/1/10 mix solves it too.
Can a specialist wizard cast spells from a prohibited school from other spellcasting classes? i.e., can a wizard / cleric who's wizard-specialized in evocation cast divine conjurations as a cleric?
_________________ Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026 Character Portraits!
So there are two gods of mechanically dubious multiclassing. Gotcha.
Sharans have Monk/Sorcerers. "True Necromancers" are typically also Wizards and Clerics, exploring both paths to unlock the darkest depths of their art.
Best Mystran is Sorc/Pally - anything else is just bad design
Maybe someone wants the roleplay element of a Wiz/Cleric over "good" design.
Well, yeah. But to be fair, I did post the question in the build thread.
Builds aren't independent of roleplay elements. While a Wiz/Cleric is not an "ideal" build, posting a character idea here should elicit attempts to tailor a build to the character, not offer a completely different build than was requested and call everything else bad design.
As for the answer to your original question, I believe you cannot cast spells from the cleric spellbook that are from your prohibited school. The only basis I have for this is the fact that you can't use a Raise Dead scroll if Conjuration (been a while, I think it's Conjuration) is your prohibited school. That said, I've never actually tried it with cleric levels so it could loophole you into being able to cast them.
_________________ Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
Out of sick curiosity I gave it a go with a level 1 wizard focused in Abjuration (so no Conjuration) with 1 level in Cleric. Cleric didn't get a bonus spell slot but could still cast conjuration spells, so one doesn't seem to affect the other.
Also, according to the wiki you can use spells from opposing schools if they're on items other than scrolls (IE: A rod, tome, or armor that could cast Raise Dead).
_________________ Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?
posting a character idea here should elicit attempts to tailor a build to the character, not offer a completely different build than was requested and call everything else bad design.
Except it wasn't an idea, just a mechanical question.
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
As for the answer to your original question, I believe you cannot cast spells from the cleric spellbook that are from your prohibited school. The only basis I have for this is the fact that you can't use a Raise Dead scroll if Conjuration (been a while, I think it's Conjuration) is your prohibited school. That said, I've never actually tried it with cleric levels so it could loophole you into being able to cast them.
Of course it still works. You have different spell books. If as a wizard you have a prohibited school of Conjuration, you can cast Conjuration from your Cleric Divine spell book, you can't cast Conjuration from your Wizard Arcane spellbook.
As for the answer to your original question, I believe you cannot cast spells from the cleric spellbook that are from your prohibited school. The only basis I have for this is the fact that you can't use a Raise Dead scroll if Conjuration (been a while, I think it's Conjuration) is your prohibited school. That said, I've never actually tried it with cleric levels so it could loophole you into being able to cast them.
Of course it still works. You have different spell books. If as a wizard you have a prohibited school of Conjuration, you can cast Conjuration from your Cleric Divine spell book, you can't cast Conjuration from your Wizard Arcane spellbook.
If you read my post, I specifically mentioned why I did not think that you could use Divine Conjuration spells. I did also mention that I never tried it with cleric levels.
_________________ Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
am currently level 5 Druid 10 shifter... Concept is a Spiritualist/Shaman of Cyric.
From a build perspective I was considering the following options.
10 Druid 19 Shifter 1 Bard for umd, tumble and discpline dump
My question is. Should I take 5 COT levels instead of the 5 additional druid levels instead? or Rogue? ... Which is mechanically build wise better.
Also a few other questions
1) Should I take dragonshape as a shifter or focus on other epic feats and forms. I noticed that some builds rely on construct, demon golem and undead shapes and stack regen items on them.
2) What feats are critically needed for a good shifter build. I was planning to stack wis and great wis all the way , take improve crit unarmed, improved knockdown..any others?
_________________ Currently starring: Vinasis D'Magi- Calishite Merchant Pantheros Sylvanight- Lycanlord of Malar Artorious Godstrike- Paladin of Torm
Best Mystran is Sorc/Pally - anything else is just bad design
Maybe someone wants the roleplay element of a Wiz/Cleric over "good" design.
Well, yeah. But to be fair, I did post the question in the build thread.
Bottom line is while you could multiclass two separate primary caster classes it would be excruciating to play and a very painful example of the affectionately termed "roleplay builds", to the point where you can expect to give up and quit about midway through. It's bad enough in P&P - where you have the Mystic Theurge to name a decent example, which gives you casting levels in BOTH classes per level, after you've burned about... 6-10 levels? Following each track separately (ie 3wiz/3 cleric before you qualify for the class, the next level is the same as gaining a level in each class). You'd be SOL if you wanted to play a Hathran.
Mercedes wrote:
Sharans have Monk/Sorcerers. "True Necromancers" are typically also Wizards and Clerics, exploring both paths to unlock the darkest depths of their art.
Dark Moon Disciples are notoriously difficult to build but I actually came up with/found two appropriate builds (I guess someone should let me know if they ever want to play one, so I can hook them up). Necromancers are just kind of weird in P&P, it's like the developers never really decided how they wanted to present the archetype (IMO Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror is the best one).
Why Great Dispelling does not remove Bubbly potions effect, but I assume Mord does ?
I asked about that before. Potions take your caster level against dispell check l. If you don't have any caster class, it takes your total level for dispell check. That's at least what was told me. It's silly that fighter drinking a potions is harder to dispell than 29wiz/1something spells.
Currently interested in a 24 Sorc/6 Paladin Human. While I think they'll be extremely potent in the endgame, am I literally giving myself 25 levels at least of pure hell?
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Kamina: I don't see the problem, really. Even if you go 15/5 pre-epic, with the last Pally at 30 to top up Discipline, you'll still have a Mass Haste/Improved Invis/GMW+5 spammer. Okay, you only have a Summon VII, so soloing will be tough, but Mass Haste spammers have lots of friends. Better to go 16/4 and nab a Summon VIII, better still to delay Paladin levels until 23+, but I guess you want the BAB and proficiencies early so you can be a spellsword?
Tyris, just to complicate matters, if your character has Epic Damage Reduction, Barbarian DR or DwD DR, that will only stack with the Resistance from Pierce/Slash/Bludge. It's implemented as +21/x, so if your guy has 3 points of DR from say Dwarven Defender 6, then wearing +5/5 and 5/- Pierce would still stop 10 points of +4 enchanted spiky things, but only 8 points of +5 enchant or higher.
but I guess you want the BAB and proficiencies early so you can be a spellsword?
Pretty much.
Another option is to go 24 Sorc/5 Paladin/1 Rogue, 15/5 pre-epic.
I was playing around with the build and it literally ONLY gets good at EMA being available, as you said I'm going to need to make friends fast. Otherwise, I can hit both Cha and Str caps easy with gear and hit a potential 64 AC without Expertise with a Tumble-dump, 58 without.
The concept's all ready to go, just actually... executing the build is tough.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
if you're taking a tumble dump might as well go monk instead for the evasion. you wont need umd so no need for rogue, the only thing you'd umd is probably monk boots anyway and with the monk level that's taken care of
I'm relying heavily on Rogue's skills per level boost here due to low int, Monk won't allow me to be viable for that.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Working on a build which works like this: 24 Cleric/ 5 KC/ 1 Rogue Human. Greataxe. Aiming for 14 Cha, to be added to 20 with 1 on items and maxed eagles. 20 Wis as a finishing score, rest a focus into str. Divine Shield is a must, probably don't need divine might but if I can swing it that's cool. The question is, is there any way to reasonably fit Dev crit in here, or should I focus on other things?
The only way I can see you getting Dev Crit is sacrificing one of the good things of the build which is the ability to have EMD and GR on an already viable Melee build.
What will your starting STR be? You need to get to 25 STR from somewhere and even someone starting at 18 STR will have to wait until level 28 until they get Dev Crit without Great Strengths.
_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
20CHA is much too low for viable Divine Might/Shield. It'll only last five rounds, which means it'll expire in the middle of any fight worth having, and while you reapply it, you're vulnerable to going flatfoot.
Opinions very on the minimum amount of CHA before Might/Shield is not worth taking, but most agree that 30CHA for a modifer of 10 is the optimum. There's isn't a great deal of point going above that* because you'll get +5AC from boots, +1 from Mage Armour and +4 from Haste, so the Shield will exactly cap your Dodge AC if you're running with a mage, have the relevant Domains or are just using items/potions.
14CHA will buff to 26 very easily since Clerics get the Aura of Glory amulets for a free +4, so you only need 3 from items. I still think modifier 8 is a little low.
*Unless you're a saveswhoring and/or Great Smite Paladin or Blackguard build. Not relevant here, but hey ho.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
FAQ
Search
Login
