AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

What's necessary to get Hellball ? I made a toon before pure cleric and I got it at lvl 30. But now with a 29 cleric and 1 monk I can't take HellBall even with spellcraft 32 ! Why ??? What did I do wrong ? It's frustrating because even offline the build doesn't match the online ! Please, I need some aid here.

It seems here the requirement would be spellcraft 33. Is that correct ?

It is 32. You need to take the feat with a cleric level. If your 30th level is a monk level, you can't select Hellball.

To quote the Wiki:
Furthermore, this feat can only be chosen when gaining a level in the qualifying class.

What was your leveling order?

For some reason I can only get that at final lvl as cleric. I thought that monk at final level would be okay, assuming I would grab that spell at lvl 29 with cleric. But even spellcraft 32 is not enough. You need to grab it at final level.

It's because you need to have 32 Spellcraft AND take it on a Cleric level. You get Spellcraft 32 at level 29 but since you do not get it as a bonus feat you have to take it at as a general feat at 30, which means you need to take cleric as your 30th level.

"Mommy !!! Beardyman scares meeee" *runs and cries*

Thanks.

Okay I have another question. When you cast SoV, you don't need to roll anything because you casted it you're not affected by it. But then what's the matter about the Blade Barrier ? It seems the caster is affected by it ! Could someone explain me the logic since both are AoE spells ?

AoE spells don't obey much logic.

What would be recommended starting ability scores for a casting druid be?

STR: 10
DEX: 8
CON: 14
WIS: 18
INT: 14
CHA: 8

She's wise enough to use her connection to nature to bend the weave and intelligent and hearty enough to live off the land, but she smells really bad and there's a lot to trip over out in the rough.

11CHA. Lets you use Bard for an endgame skilldump without worrying about me teabagging you in your sleep. And I will. There is no place on land, sea nor air where I cannot find you.

Why would you do that when 28 Druid 1 Ranger 1 Rogue is the superior beast.

Bard as a dump class for druid? Ridiculous. Use ranger or rogue.

ED: Mosh has rogue levels, as evidenced by that sneak attack.

Why the ranger level?

Ranger for the free epic feat & (if you like) medium armor proficiency...even dual wield.

Ranger is great for casters when taken at level 30 since it gives free Epic Spell Focus and access to discipline (and shield prof for mages).

28/1/1 gives you the bonus feat for Druid at level 28, but 27/2/1 with two rogue levels gives you evasion, and also allows you to put rogue at level 1 for way more skill points and the ease of having some UMD throughout leveling up, which you can increase with gear and cha pots to equip or use what you need to use. In my mind that's a fine trade-off for the one less epic feat.

MoshingChris wrote:

Why would you do that when 28 Druid 1 Ranger 1 Rogue is the superior beast.

I read Dragonshape Druid there. Must be getting old.

Right, need some help really.

30 Bard Lightfoot Hin, no weapon in mind but naturally something dex-based. Naturally I want the song-extending feats but... what on earth should I be building towards, especially ability and feat-wise? I really want Appraise in there somewhere.

Bards of Amia- *Touches magical girl bracelet* I SUMMON YOU!

It's so versatile, you'd have to be more precise about what you would like to be able to do with the build. Hopefully not caster bard

mirvala- wrote:

Hopefully not caster bard

Why?

And I'm really not sure, I'm thinking a Dex-based Bard ultimately hitting 17 Cha (16 on startup, 17 @ level 28) perhaps using a Sling.

I don't want to go in to too much OOC detail about the character, but a Bard at heart is what they do.

How did you know I was a magical girl? Stalker.

You want the Song-extending feat. Lasting Winspiration makes the other two sad and redundant.

Are you set on DEX-base? It doesn't significantly help the survivability of the character, but it will mean soloing becomes insufferably slow.

Stock melee Bard template:

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
WIS 8
INT 14
CHA 14 -> 16 or 18, then everything else goes into your AB stat, and the appropriate Great Ability feat to even it out.

1 [optional]
3 Extend Spell
6 Curse Song
9 Weapon Focus
12 Maximise Spell
15 Knockdown
18 Blindfight

21 Armourskin
23 The World is Fucked Inspiration
24 Epic Weapon Focus
26 Epic Skill Perform
27
29
30

Now, in your case, if you're determined to go DEX, you'll need to swap feats around a little since Weapon Finesse needs +1AB to work and thus can't be taken on Bard creation. Extend Spell can't be taken till Bard2, so you can't make that swap either.

The last three feats will have the aforementioned Great Ability, but other than that you can do what you like with them.

I'm not dead-set on Dex-based, but I'm so used to Hin being dex-based I assumed it would be best!

I think I may use that build for a sling-based Bard, but Knockdown changed to point blank.

Is that viable?

Also I'm concerned about the -2 Str, +2 Dex of a Lightfoot, that means to get 14 Str I'd be spending 4 more points than if I were a standard Str subrace.

You can get some pretty nice AB out of a Hin Slinger DEX Build since you get bonuses for small and good aim and potentially Point Blank on top of the usual suspects. Mighty Maxes at +5 so STR isn't a big priority. Damage is minimal however especially with no EWS or other sources of damage. You can go for Called Shot which can be handy with high AB. Party will love you as you stand back and plink away at enemies while looking so dashing.

In theory, any PvP he would ever encounter he'd mostly run away from, so that makes sense.

Support bard it is, it seems!

12 Str should be fine with boosts, then?

You can go 25/5 for an extra attack and EWS. One notch below the best from a bardic perspective but with an upgraded peashooter.

Uberuce wrote:

Stock melee Bard template:

Delicious.

What about a more combat-based Bard? I was thinking perhaps 25 bard/5 fighter to net EWS and 4 APR. Or, even, 21 bard/5 KC/4 Fighter. I'm assuming same basic stats, just some jumbling of the class lineup to maximize things. Thoughts?

Not sure how bad the -10 (or 5) CL on the Bard spells will hurt. I know it will be -1 (or 2) AC from the song and less skills and temp HP.

How would that affect the holy build-cow's suggested build, if at all?
4 Fighter pre-epic and the 5th at level 27?

Or do I need all 5 fighter levels pre-epic to even achieve 4 attacks?

You need 4 fighter pre-epic for 4 attacks, which will also net you Weapon Specialization. The 5th Fighter level post-epic will net you Epic Weapon Spec.

Thanks, thought you needed 5 pre-epic for some reason! I think that's what I'll aim for then, Holy-cow's build with a few alterations c:

Quote:

Also I'm concerned about the -2 Str, +2 Dex of a Lightfoot, that means to get 14 Str I'd be spending 4 more points than if I were a standard Str subrace.

Sorry, that was my lack of notation at fault: that's the stock human template for ability scores. If you're going sling, then the hin mod to 12/16 would be fine.

I really think you'll struggle to enjoy a slinger Bard, or more accurately, to enjoy the slinging part.

One of the big problems is that your main function after the buffing is done is to Curse Sing the mobs, which means you need to run into the centre of the spawn with your frontline tankly buddies and scream. The kinda means you're going to be a ranged character in the middle of a mob, and you're likely to take a hell of a lot of flak from stray 20's coming off all those Attacks of Opportunity, so you'll spend a lot of time running back and forth to get out of range of AoO.

The other problem is the crappy damage. It means you're purely a support character, as opposed to a support character that, when the server is empty, can nonetheless quite viably pull out a twohander and go splatter some easy mobs for cash and Mythals, or go sword and board and beat up bosses before they 20 you to death.

There's a couple of nice things to be said for DEX-base; equipping them is really easy since arcane spell failure stops being an issue, and...no, actually, that's the only good thing about DEX Bards. I was going to say it makes stealth easy too, but that's not viable for combat or even serious RP spying, so it's just an interesting thing for goofing around, not a good one.

The thing I love about Bards is their Jack-of-All-Trades-ness, and you lose that by giving up your ability to solo, but don't actually gain anything.

I wouldn't go 25/5 on a sling for that reason. Still can't solo.

So the viability is, a pure bard is less specialised BUT it opens up the option of exchanging melee to ranged at will?

Admittedly the ranged is flavoursome to the character, he's a "traditional" wandering Lightfoot.

I've done two Bards with crap STR, one because it was a Hide/MS whoring SD, the other because it was a gnome with Epic DRIII, and I'm never ever doing it again unless someone pays me serious cash money.

You don't have to worry about it since any high bard that follows the template is going to make the parties they're in so fierce, so if you determined to go Dex, it won't break him. It just would for me.

May I ask what the prime disadvantage was?

Two things:

1) Concentration on a WM build? Y/N? Already have Discipline (33/41), Tumble (30/31), UMD (26/25), Spot (31/32), and Heal (16/15). Is Spot even good for a WM build with 8 WIS?

2) viewtopic.php?p=1246834#p1246834

Kamina wrote:

May I ask what the prime disadvantage was?

It takes a very long time to kill anything, and I'm not that patient.

Uberuce wrote:

Kamina wrote:

May I ask what the prime disadvantage was?

It takes a very long time to kill anything, and I'm not that patient.

That's what partying with lackies is for!

Uberuce wrote:

11CHA. Lets you use Bard for an endgame skilldump without worrying about me teabagging you in your sleep. And I will. There is no place on land, sea nor air where I cannot find you.

You only need 11 CHA if you take Bard on character creation, otherwise, so long as you ain't lawful, you can take Bard at any level regardless of CHA, you just don't get to cast the spells.

Naivatkal wrote:

Two things:

1) Concentration on a WM build? Y/N? Already have Discipline (33/41), Tumble (30/31), UMD (26/25), Spot (31/32), and Heal (16/15). Is Spot even good for a WM build with 8 WIS?

Concentration is for resisting Taunt, that's about it. So if you're into PvP, not a bad investment if you have the skill points to spare, but not essential.

I understand the mechanics, it's just Bard is my favourite class and anyone besmirching it by using it as a skilldump without having the goddamn respect to take positive CHA and be a sociable personality will be waking up with the taste of week-unwashed bollocks in their mouth.

Oh I see. Sorry old chap.

I'm testing the waters of Amia for the first time.
Thus far, I am very impressed by the amount of RP that I have had thrust upon me.
To speak of the Amian community, it's almost like you people ACTUALLY RP, unlike .. just about any other server I've been on (except some ZS and other servers of yore.)

Anyways, I know my character's backstory (I intend to write it up and post it for others to read in the next few days)
I know my character's goals and ambitions, and I have predicted his story arc, I.E. I know what I want my character to be, class wise. Rogue, Assassin, Shadowdancer.

However, I have NO IDEA of the following things.

1) What is going on with Assassin on this server. Is death attack still a thing? Or is it replaced by the widget tool?
2) What are some tips for PvE with this kind of build?
3) Not to really sound like a min/max'r, elitist, or power-builder at all, but is this kind of build even viably useful or level-able? Or should I avert now and just stick with <insert possible suggestions here>?

and 4) if it is viable, are there any tips I should be aware of, like leveling order?

I appreciate any feedback to any of these inquires.

~Metal
(Artimus Zyn)

Edit: Currently Level 4, and I am only aware of one area to train at the moment: Spiders. And it's tough, because I'm currently having to solo (I have yet to meet a progression comrade.)

1. Not replaced, still there.
2. Best tip is to never solo past level 6.
3. You're not a power gamer asking if a build works in the build thread! It's a cookie-cutter build, nothing amazing but nothing bad
4. Ask IC! lots of people can help in character.

Which animal companions do most people prefer with regards to combat efficiency? Does it change from level to level or do you generally stick with one type?

They used to be hopelessly out of balance; piggy and bear, if dementia allows me to remember correctly, were the only two companions worth considering. Now, Mosh be praised, all of the furry forest critters are roughly equal, though naturally have different traits and functions in combat.

For that matter, you can trust common sense; bears are big so they hit hard, can sustain a lot of damage, but also have to because they're big and get hit. Badgers are small and resilient, but mostly gnaw at people's feet. Hawks can poke out things' eyes and aren't easy to reach, but in case somebody catches them, they're as good as tasty roast.

Also, apply common sense to find the most efficient strategy: Do you want badger to soak up a respectable amount of the damage, so you can utilise your dual-wielding sneak attacks from the flank and rear? Do you want your rat to get stealthy bites, while you use your big booty to attract attention? Do you want a co-ordinated friend who will share the pain with you evenly? Go test them, there's no desert-island best thingy to stand out from the crew.

Newbie wrote:

How to play?

My advice is to keep summon scrolls stocked. Sniff around where to buy the most potent/affordable ones; even decent ones should be fairly accessible. As for level order, as I have no idea how many levels of each class you want to take, just make sure you land on 4th levels of each class by 20. By this I mean the game mechanic of Rogue/Assassin/SD and few others all functioning on the Base Attack Bonus progression of the first level after every fourth being a no-AB level. 1st level of Rogue doesn't get AB, but up to 4 you get one each level, adding up to 0 + 3 = 3. On fifth you miss out on one again. Make sure you don't miss out on any more than you absolutely need to since your AB will be relatively low at finish line.

Like he said, they are all noteworthy in some aspect, but fit different roles. Some are tanky, some damage cannons, some disablers, etc. The flexibility is nice.

I don't see many folks changing level by level. They all scale and get better as you gain levels. That said its not unheard of to change companions over time. Let the role play take you somewhere else if it suits.

Everytime I see that avatar I want to slap you magles.

20 Bard / 6 Fighter / 3 Rogue

Feytouched

STR 16 -> 24
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 16 -> 18

Skill Focus: Perform
Curse Song
Weapon Focus
Power Attack, Cleave
Exten Spell
Improved Critical
Maximise Spell
Blind Fight
Weapon Specialisation
---
Epic Weapon Focus
Epic Weapon Specialisation
Great Strength I
Lasting Inspiration

4 Bard / 2 Fighter / 11 Bard / 3 Fighter
---
1 Fighter / 3 Bard / 2 Rogue / 1 Bard / 1 Rogue / 1 Bard

Perform: 32
Tumble: 30
UMD: 30
Discipline: 32
Spellcraft: 30
Appraise: 14

Why the rogue levels?

UMD 30 is overkill on a Bard.

Cleave is a pointless feat.

Power Attack has some value however you would be better of going KD/IKD.

Better of going 15 Strength/12 Con at start and picking up Armor Skin were you have that Great Strength feat.

Trading out +1 AB for +2 AC +1 Fort and 30 HP.

You are also better off rushing 15 Bard and then going fighter.

I've been doing this build at work, and it was originally planned with a class that required a tumble+umd one.

But, I'm still going to have to get a Great Ability feat anyways?

So,
23 Bard / 6 Fighter
Or
21 Bard / 8 Fighter

(In any case, there's a bonus feat to be taken in epic levels)

One I have in mind: 6 Fighter/10 Rogue/ 14 Blackguard
STR 15 -> 22
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 13 ->14
WIS 13 ->14
CHA 12

Disc, Taunt, Tumble, UMD are the main skills 30 ranks in each. Have some extra skill points to throw around, not sure where they'll end up, thinking intimidate, lore, listen, search, or spot, not sure yet

.

Feats: Armorskin, Cleave, Crippling Strike, Epic Wpn Spec (and the rest that go with), Expertise/Improved Expertise, Great STR 2, Improved Crit, Improved Disarm, Power Attack/Improved Power Attack, Luck of Heroes, Sneak Attack +5d6, Blackguard Sneak Attack +4d6, Toughness.

Not sure which weapon to specialize in either, 1h and shield, or 2hander. Was thinking either longsword or greatsword, but I'm open to ideas :idea:

Edit: Do the Blackguard and Rogue sneak attacks stack, therefore being +9d6 sneak attack?

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