AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Well yeah, pretty sure you need UMD. But 'everyone' gets UMD. Or have someone read it for you.

IIRC Owl's Insight is Self only.

EDIT: Nevermind!

Was inspired to craft a build. Idea barbarian, axe and board. Was thinking something along the lines of 24 barb 5 fighter 1 rogue. Would net dev crit, terrifying rage, thundering rage, IKD.

ends up with:
Str 25
Con 14
Int 13
Rest doesn't really matter, will dump in charisma for personal reasons.

My question: Should I go a different spread? Is thundering rage worth it? Should i not take EP and just go for G STR I instead?

freezey wrote:

Was inspired to craft a build. Idea barbarian, axe and board. Was thinking something along the lines of 24 barb 5 fighter 1 rogue. Would net dev crit, terrifying rage, thundering rage, IKD.

ends up with:
Str 25
Con 14
Int 13
Rest doesn't really matter, will dump in charisma for personal reasons.

My question: Should I go a different spread? Is thundering rage worth it? Should i not take EP and just go for G STR I instead?

I am still new at building but EP gives you +1 AB to all your attacks... G STR gives you +1 Ab and +1 Damage. See no reason why you wouldn't take G Str I

It also gives you a +1 to your Dev Crit DC.

I'm also curious at the 5th fighter level, it gains you nothing.

24 Barb 4 Fighter 2 Rogue is the build.

If Human
1 - 20 Barb:
Pre-epic Feats: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Blindfight

Epic:
Fighter 21: Epic Weapon Focus, Great Strength 1
Fighter 22: Overwhelming Critical
Fighter 23:
Fighter 24: Weapon Spec, Epic Weapon Spec
Barbarian 25:
Barbarian 26
Barbarian 27: Thundering Rage
Rogue 28:
Rogue 29:
Barbarian 30: Terrifying Rage, Armor Skin/Devastating Critical

To be honest having made this build previously with an x3 guy I've never found Devastating to be necessary since you put out so much damage on a Critical.

What's the typical feats a Sorc takes?

At least one Great Charisma.

Spell focii, and the like. It depends if you wanna focus on many spells, or get a duelist kind of build. Like, boosted fort, discipline and concentration.

Extend/maximise/G.Cha/spell foci are the standard ones, then can build around it I believe with what's left over depending on what ya going for as mirvy says

I feel that if you are building a caster and not taking either silent spell or still spell there is something badly wrong with you.

What is the best on hit power for a weapon, and why?

Obviously no on hit slay or vorpal...

I would vote for blind.

Blind. Nothing's immune to it, it flatfoots PCs for at least a round and the AI just cannot deal with it at the minute, so Blind NPCs just stand still and let you beat them senseless. When Blind, you suffer the 50% miss chance that stacks with Improved Invis etc so even with Blindfight you're missing ~50% of the time, but the really big news is that every attack on you is flagged as coming out of invisibility, so it's a Sneak Attack.

I understand the AI is being worked on to make mobs do something more useful than stand stock still when Blind, but even so, the miss chance and auto-Sneak makes it brutal.

I was debating on that, but this toon has Dev crit too so with how it is wouldn't it just be redundant having it blind twice?

No, because an onhit doesn't require a critical hit to function, so it'll get through on 20's and more importantly work on critproof beasties. The odds of rolling a 20 then the target rolling a 1 are slim enough to ignore even with the screwy not-very-random dice, but being able to Blind the undead, contructed and pale of mastery among us is a fine thing.

Uberuce wrote:

No, because an onhit doesn't require a critical hit to function, so it'll get through on 20's and more importantly work on critproof beasties. The odds of rolling a 20 then the target rolling a 1 are slim enough to ignore even with the screwy not-very-random dice, but being able to Blind the undead, contructed and pale of mastery among us is a fine thing.

Fair enough valid point forgot to account for crit proof.

Have been wanting to make a Dex based paladin for a while now.

My -plan- is 23paladin/6monk. +1ecl assimar.

Just can't fully come up with a build that isn't terrible. Anyone have any recommendation of their attempts?

Don't steal my idea :evil:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Yondalla or Corellon.

Rogue 13 / Paladin 16 / Ranger 1
Epic Dodge. +8 Divine Might/Shield. High AB. High AC. High Saves. (6 con in the elf version, ouch but easily survivable)

That's what I was thinking about, but I considered that maybe a more straight pally build would be okay too. Pump dex, decent cha/wis, rely on divine might for your actual damage and divine shield for ridiculous AC. Also avoids some DMs heavily disagreeing with you on whether or not it's okay for Paladins to go sneak attack heavy. But I haven't planned it out much really. Strictly speaking it would be inferior to standard pally builds but good saves, good AC and adequate AB sounds fine enough to me. What do the builderers think?

You've summed it up well. Dex-base without Epic Dodge makes me sad but the only way to get it and avoid Sneak is Pally/SD10 which has a lot of wasted levels.

MoshingChris wrote:

It also gives you a +1 to your Dev Crit DC.

I'm also curious at the 5th fighter level, it gains you nothing.

24 Barb 4 Fighter 2 Rogue is the build.

If Human
1 - 20 Barb:
Pre-epic Feats: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Blindfight

Epic:
Fighter 21: Epic Weapon Focus, Great Strength 1
Fighter 22: Overwhelming Critical
Fighter 23:
Fighter 24: Weapon Spec, Epic Weapon Spec
Barbarian 25:
Barbarian 26
Barbarian 27: Thundering Rage
Rogue 28:
Rogue 29:
Barbarian 30: Terrifying Rage, Armor Skin/Devastating Critical

To be honest having made this build previously with an x3 guy I've never found Devastating to be necessary since you put out so much damage on a Critical.

I would suggest one level of fighter at level 2 just to net you the full plate prof, but then you miss out on one'a them epic feats, how troublesome!

The defensive Rage is perfectly suitable in filling the gap between level 15 and 21 with regards to AC.

Uberuce wrote:

You've summed it up well. Dex-base without Epic Dodge makes me sad but the only way to get it and avoid Sneak is Pally/SD10 which has a lot of wasted levels.

What if you just forget about epic dodge and went for a more standard paladin spread (which I assume is like 24pally/4fighter/2tumbledump)? Is the AC and Divine Might damage good enough? What really sucks is the Multiple Attribute Dependency. I'm the sort of player who is pretty bad with timing, watching my HP, and also my average latency is about 300, so I need a good HP buffer to avoid stupid annoying deaths. So I can't stand to sacrifice con below 10. Str needs to be 13 minimum. Wis 14. Cha 14+. Dexdexdex. Int 10 I guess. How does it all fit in?

It requires an outrageous amount of gear micromanagement, including Aura of Glory amulets and all that jazz. It's a real pain in the arse, but doable. Your latency will make it even more painful, though.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

It requires an outrageous amount of gear micromanagement, including Aura of Glory amulets and all that jazz. It's a real pain in the arse, but doable. Your latency will make it even more painful, though.

It's a Paladin. It casts Aura of Glory. Why micro if you don't have to?

I'm a dunce. I will go jump off the bridge now... into the snow, and wash myself with it because I'm a filthy little boy.

All I see whenever you post is;

"Hai, Sauna"

Do saves feats (e.g: Great Fortitude, Epic Fortitude) count towards the +20 saves cap?

With regards to movement and mechanics of shifting to Dragonform is there any difference between the 9th level Shapechange spell and the Dragonshape feat?

I'm not talking about stats merely the mechanics of walking around and getting stuck on things and such.

mirvala- wrote:

Do saves feats (e.g: Great Fortitude, Epic Fortitude) count towards the +20 saves cap?

Quick edit for you, the Saving Throw page on the Wikia appears to be wrong from testing on the NWN Amia build module this appears to be correct. The ones listed as First Level Feats etc do not count, but Sacred Defense and spell like feats do count toward the cap:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Saving_throw_advice

Yes, I've read that. I am just double-checking. I'd rather verify twice than make a mistake!

Edit: Oooh, thanks for the advice link.

What are the highest DCs for locks, disabling traps, and setting traps on Amia that are currently the realm of public knowledge?

Would 20's in skills across the board with a take-20 roll cover it?

If I go for pure support, would it be better to have bard/KC/MS (20/5/5), or just bard/KC?

I personally like the tripple combination, but I've seen only 25/5 builds around.

my bard can set/disable traps, open locks with ease. I only have 1 rank on each, bard song and equipment gives you the rest. *nodsnods*

I mean, what do I miss if instead of 5 epic bard levels I take 5 MS levels?

Question for all of you experts out there:

I have a cleric character whose RP is strong into creating potions, wands, etc. She is already an herbalist, but I would also like to take Brew Potion and Craft Wand.

Here's the rub... I only have 3 feats left before epics in which to take: Craft Wand, Brew Potion, Improved Crit (rapier), and Expertise. She is level 9 and just took Combat Casting. I was thinking of dropping that level and not taking combat casting as I can make up 4 concentration points fairly easily.

What do you all think?

Also, I found charts on the NWN Bioware Wiki about making wands and potions....http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Craft_wand, are these accurate for Amia? As far as prices, caster levels, etc?

Thank you for your responses and insight!

-B

Last edited by mirvala- on Tue, Mar 04 2014, 16:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Caster (and Innate) levels are referable on the Wiki, but for prices, refer to this section of Modifications.

And combat casting is useless unless you go Defensive Casting Mode or plan for the epic feat with it's pre-requisite, both being useless if you score high in concentration.

Mirvala,

Thanks!

I checked a few potions and wands against the chart on the wiki and the modifications Amia made, and it seems that they are using the same formula still.

I was thinking the same about combat casting. Will delevel 1 level to change that.

-B

You're welcome!

These charts are good to know which will be the caster level, mostly, so you can predict prices outcomes.

Potion fee is 25% of Vanilla NWN. Craft Wand remained the same.

So animal buffs were...
Caster Level (15) x Innate Level (2) x 50 for 1500 gold a potion.

and now are...

Caster Level (15) x Innate Level (2) x 12.5 for 375 gold a potion.

(As precised in the Miscellaneous Classes and Feats changes)

Oh! Wow... I must have only looked at wands!

Thanks again!

Without a problem! I do highly suggest that you pay a good look at the "Modifications" sections on the sidebar; they contain a lot of informations pertaining to magics and the like for Amia. It is a good ressource to know what remained like vanilla and what was adapted to our needs.

The_Last_Helmite wrote:

I mean, what do I miss if instead of 5 epic bard levels I take 5 MS levels?

6 Skill Points, 1 AC (Look at the Bard Song Bonuses a bit lower in the page. I guess there is Lasting Inspiration in your build and I need not to suggest you take it on you 20th level of bard that must be taken after level 22

)

Wondering if anyone can help me with a decent assassin build? it may be for a shadow elf, so keeping that in mind a lawful alignment and thus monk is excluded

At the moment I think it will be 5-6 rogue levels, 6 SD levels and the rest is assassin

Shadowfiend wrote:

Wondering if anyone can help me with a decent assassin build? it may be for a shadow elf, so keeping that in mind a lawful alignment and thus monk is excluded

At the moment I think it will be 5-6 rogue levels, 6 SD levels and the rest is assassin

I am sure you will be pointed to the fighter/MS/Assassin build

Give me the notable stats and lvls and maybe I'll consider it, I've been wanting to roll a HiPS sneak attack character though. If I wanted a MS build I know of some decent ones, myself.

I want to try a skill monkey of an assassin build really, with HiPS, epic dodge and crippling strike

Going purist, what is one of the best level 30 Monk builds we have?

I am feeling the need for some SR in there as well.

If you go pure 30 monk itd never one of the best. And you might as well go sr because there is not much options.

I'd throw my weight behind Pigeon. I've slaved and slaved over making a 'good' 30 monk that isn't SR, but without Epic/Uncanny Dodge I just can't do it. The speed/other boons don't seem worth the lack of defense other dexers get while also giving up all the damage.

I'd say Strength-based quarterstaff monk is the best you'd get (aside from SR, unless you also went SR) and even that would benefit greatly from some fighter levels, or even better yet WM. There was a good Monk topic in Improving Amia that talks about all the shortcomings of the class and how it is pretty much designed to be mixed in with others.

Shadowfiend wrote:

Wondering if anyone can help me with a decent assassin build? it may be for a shadow elf, so keeping that in mind a lawful alignment and thus monk is excluded

At the moment I think it will be 5-6 rogue levels, 6 SD levels and the rest is assassin

Hmmm...6 SD / 10 Rogue / 14 Assassin is the only remotely viable mix of the 3, I think. 5 SD gets Defensive Roll, 10 Rogue gets Imp Evasion, 14 Assassin gets Crip Strike. You could do 8 Rogue / 8 Assassin / 4 SD pre-epic to 'maximize' your AB (a whopping 15).

You have no bonus feats (other than the Assassin one you use for Crip Strike), so in epic you take Epic Dodge, EWF, EWP, maybe Great Dex I depending on how you mix your stats?

I wouldn't do it...but there ya go :twisted:

Why not 6 rogue 6 SD 18 assassin? I don't know how the ab will go, but the DC's will be higher, and the 6 SD lvls will cover defensive roll, 1st bonus assassin feat would cover imp evasion and 2nd bonus would give me crippling strike.

You gimp your AB even further with that spread. You want to take 3/4 AB classes (rogue, SD, Cleric, etc) in groups of 4 pre-epic to maximize your AB. You are correct in that your save DC will be 4 higher; if that's worth 1-2 AB (depending how you level), go for it.

Can someone explain the On Hit item properties to me. Like what does that percentage mean?

If it says

On Hit: Hold (DC = 14) 25% / 2 rounds

Does that mean that 25% of your hits will cause the target to roll a save vs Hold (DC = 14)? I think it's supposed to be like that but when I try it in game, I rarely see the mobs rolling a save even when my percentage is at 50%. And what about On Hit effects that don't have a percentage? Are they supposed to force a roll every time they hit? It feels like this is how it's supposed to work but when I test it in game (online or offline) it feels like it's all random and no matter what percentage you use or if you don't use a percentage at all, it will only force a save vs effect on very few occasions.

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