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So cannon to Amia on how fey reverie is this:

Complete guide to fey from rules&lore wrote:

Fey do not need to sleep or trance whatsoever. By default, spells and abilities are regained at dawn, though members of the Nightmare Court regain them at midnight. Not all fey are understanding of the mortal need for sleep, just as not all mortals are understanding of the boundless energy of the fey. This can create unusual conflicts when parties of mortal and fey cohabitate. Luckily there is an option that alleviates fey boredom when mortals need to “lie down for the whole night” as it has been put.

Though a fey cannot sleep, it can dream. By relaxing, perhaps with a bit of wine, a fey creature can slip into a state of “reverie”: a focused delirium not unlike the state of being drugged, or a waking dream in which the fey creature can interact with whimsical characters and scenes, or even, with enough power, divine the past, present or future. The reverie is personal to each fey, though some are able to share it in the form of illusions or by projecting it into another’s mind. As a fey grows older, the draw of the reverie becomes stronger and stronger, for within it, the fey feels no pain and indeed is too euphoric to even pay much attention to his surroundings.

Many if not most fey choose to live their entire lives in reverie, conducting both business and play according to rules based on dream logic to further compound the strictures of fey existence

Now I'm curious as to what the difference between that and elves reverie are. There is a non-cannon book called Fey Magic: Dreaming The Reverie (should be available with a quick google). The book states that entering the state of reverie is reaching/going into the plane of fey absorbing living energy from it, it also states that elves can do this to a certain extend as they're descendants of the fey(?). So I was wondering how it actually work as I've not been able to find anything about it in a cannon source. If there is no absolute on how it works then what would the ruling on Amia be?

To my knowledge, elven reverie isn't quite as creative as fey reverie. In essence, during reverie elves "relive" parts of their life, which helps them remember past events across their long lifespans.

Here is something we have on elven reverie so I think they are just the same name for two different things, probably. Because what is life without making words confusing?

My personal take on this is the following:

Reverie = French for "dreamery", day dream.

After I read that both feys and elves would go into reverie rather than sleep, I made a distinction that feys can go "deeper" and do more "magic/weird stuff" when they enter reverie than what elves can do.

What I have read before was that they normally relive past events of their lives, they can even at some point see the future / past of other people related to them and other weird stuff alike.

So based on my view of it..

Elves can relieve past memories, sort of like FFX's sphere theater (you watch on TV your own memories of past events), while a fey would be able to remain in a state of daydreaming/reverie, relive past memories/events all-the-while being 100% aware of what is happening around them AND including that present in their dream thingies as if they were high with mush and the people around were included in the hallucinations and actors in it.

ANYWAY!.. Elves have the basic reverie (they basically just dream events of their past), feys have the supernatural parts added (and they relive events of the past.. sometimes even the future I believe).

There's no consistently applicable standard about what an elf is capable of in reverie vs. what a fey is capable of. It depends on the elf, and on the fey. Reverie is a learned skill, not an instinct; those elves and fey who choose to develop their talents (clergy of Titania or Sehanine, most likely maybe?) will have a deeper and more varied experience of reverie than those of either race who emphasize other things.

There might not be an applicable standard, but there should be applicable boundaries. By the sound of things the elven variant of reverie isnt even the same thing as the fey variant which means they arent comparable at all. Like from what I've read about elven reverie its a translike meditative state whilst fey just get high as hell but other then that they can function normally even though they're in reverie. That answers the question between elves and fey.

But I'm still interested in fey-reverie and the plane of fey in general since they seem to have a connection and reverie in general seems like a source of power or something powerful for a fey.

I've got a bit of headcanon where the fey, partially, visit their home plane during reverie. Perhaps like a walking in between, or a spirit-travel. They are made up almost entirely of magic to begin with, so it doesn't sound so farfetched. It would account for visions and other strange thing fey see while dreaming.

I would chalk it up to some sort of vestigial mechanism. Elves are possibly descended from Fey, both being created by Corellon and originally coming form the Feywild. Fey, being the prototype, have a fuller more whimsical Reverie but for whatever reason, Elves have a toned down one and have to be taught how to do it through culture. Somewhere between being walking imaginations who live naked in the wild to creating societies with rules in the real world, Elves lost some of their trippy dream mojo along the way.

So yeah, same mechanism, but different manifestation is my bet.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Feywild

4e. I wish we just used it, though; it's a cool place and 3e didn't give us anything good to work with.

Mercedes wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Feywild

4e. I wish we just used it, though; it's a cool place and 3e didn't give us anything good to work with.

The rest of the 4e cosmology is so boring it makes accountants interesting.

The best cosmology is from 2nd ed. 3rd is in principle the same but with less lore and more crunch. 4e threw it in the garbage bin and replaced the Great Wheel with an uninspired generic cosmology.

Mercedes wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Feywild

4e. I wish we just used it, though; it's a cool place and 3e didn't give us anything good to work with.

4E does give a more simplified cosmology but it is not at current compatible with the 3.0/3.5 cosmology used by Amia.

. Admittedly, 4th Ed while having a lot of good ideas on the mechanics front could've worked on flavour.

Wait, feywild doesn't exist 3e? I was pretty sure it did. Maybe it wasn't named that, or wasn't named at all, but Corellon is an interloper god and his creations followed him, last I was aware.

No, feywild is a 4ed thing. Although the plane of fey does exist which is pretty much the same. The feywild is however a mirror to the prime in the same way the plane of shadow is, not sure if thats the case in 3rd.

The text quoted above states that fey can be fully aware even though their revering which makes it really awkward if they're also sorta astral projecting onto the plane of fey since that'd mean they're literally in two places at the same time. It would make sense if they can do either or, especially if the plane of fey is an actual mirror-plane to the prime in 3rd/amia.

Like many things, it seems like this is another area where some unanimous decision or DM ruling would come down as to what parts of FR non-canon is used. There is no good 3.xe material for fey, and we're using a lot of strange sources that we don't also use everything from. There's enough codified to make and play a fey, with cynosures, lures, banes, the courts, etc.... but not enough to know a lot about where they live. Just feels like we're always winging it with a percentile chance to be wrong.

Its why I made the thread, to get the ruling on what applies to Amia revolving these questions.

Last edited by Silvarus on Fri, Mar 28 2014, 23:33 PM, edited 1 time in total.

3rd edition mostly provided stats and no lore about many creatures and planes. I have always gone with 3rd ed stats with gaps filled with 2nd ed lore for Outsiders and Fae and just about everything else. There is just so much more information in the 2nd ed books.

EDIT: I also have basically all 2nd ed books that are even distantly related to the planes and Outsiders as PDF:s if anyone needs some. Some of them have proven invaluable when figuring out how to play Gagis for example.

Terra_777 wrote:

No, feywild is a 4ed thing. Although the plane of fey does exist which is pretty much the same.

Ah, that's what I'm thinking of then. But as you say, same basic thing, just different name. Same thing they pulled with the Shadowplane vs Shadowfell.

The only reference to a "plane of faerie" I know of is as an optional variant plane in the Manual of the Planes. It's not part of the integrated canonical cosmology, and as far as I know, it doesn't exist in Amia any more than the Feywild does. Do you guys have a FR source for a fey plane?

Feywild isn't the same thing as the Faerie otherwise, we'd be able to use all the Feywild lore and we can't. Like the border-realm between the Feywild and the Prime Material that is crazy as hell and full of Wardens riding hooved fey-beasts. I love all of it.

We only use parts that happened to have been kept from other places and versions

That said, I think it's going to be a server-culture specific thing that defines our Fey reverie, if two fey even Reverie the same at all.

The fey article (I think Jan's?) in R&L is pretty much the only relevant piece of fey lore you can apply to Amia. There is very little in FR products, because they're never introduced as playable races. The material posted there is what we have, and if it leaves something vague, then it is vague.

In FR lore, elven reverie is not in any way connected to the fey that I know of. So they might as well be two different things that just share outward appearance and a name.

Thats the problem though, they are introduced as a playable characters on Amia, which probably shouldnt have happened. But now they are so then the verge parts should be clarified when they arise because its not very nice to RP one way with "This is how I think it works" in mind and then it turns out its nothing like that.

What I'm looking for is definite answers on what goes for Amia so its stops being verge, because there are several books on the fey but none of them are cannon whilst the cannon material is just the monster-stuff.

The reverie part is already clear and it was even more cleared with Rigela's post assuming she had her best DM hat on.

Well, if what is posted in R&L is the full extent of the lore, then any further answers are just speculation. If you read the lore carefully and think "this is how it is", then you can hardly be told you're wrong.

I do agree it might warrant more attention, but I don't think a Q&A is the format to do it. Some fey expert should rather compile the relevant FR sources, look at the non-canon material we use, and flesh out the lore article where necessary. You're not going to piece together a coherent history, cosmology and physiology that would carry authoritative weight into the future like this, I imagine.

As for the Feywild, I feel it's a bit weird. The idea of parallel worlds is kind of cool, but there are so many of them already. Fey are the mythal, elusive creatures of sylvan woodlands. They actually live in the forest, in the springs and trees etc. Somehow supernaturally, yes, but still for real. That's the impression I get from them, anyhow. They are an actual part of society in Evermeet, for example.

The world of Faerie is part of FR, though. It's not a parallel plane like the Feywild, though. It's where the elves came from. Page 8 of Grand History mentions it; it's where Durothil brought his elves from. I think that's in the Evermeet novel? It's more like another Prime Material, or another world on the same Prime (i.e. different planet or different cosmology).

As far as I am aware (and I may be wrong) the only 'fey lore' that we have as certain canon is what is referenced in our lore - the complete guide to fey. There are many other books you can find which you can use, or even base things on folk tales of various peoples, as that is where a fair amount of the fey idea's originate in some form or other.

As for what I said on reverie, while a slight tongue in cheek response to the English languages love of using the same word for multiple things, I would say that yes - elf reverie and fey reverie are different.
The elves reverie is just another mary sue form of meditation, while the fey are just weird, mystical and shit with what they do in very simple terms.

I remember reading that the elven reverie was a skill re-learned from the fey ages past, but it's been a long time since I revisited my collections of lore and more to it I lost it over with my laptop..

However, I've always seen elven reverie being superior to sleep in the sense that it simply does not require as much time. Sleeping takes around 6-8 hours, reverie could get the same results in 3-4 hours. Fey reverie being far more potent to elven reverie itself, and not actually used for sense of resting more than to pass time by the fey. I've always played my fey's so that due to the connections they have to the Weave, to the realm of Fey's they simply can experience reveries more potent, to actually see to past/present/future.(Not in the future, but added it there as some extraordinarily potent feys can do it.)

Elven reverie can see to the past events usually, if they see to future, they are gifts from Sehahine Moonbow, not your normal reverie. And even to further, by my understanding to get blessings from Sehahine Moonbow, by visions, it actually requires real sleep state, not reverie. (At least some past DM interactions have shown this case.) Feys do not need deities to grant visions, their revery is potent enough to do itself. An elf who reveries, can not perform Oneiromancy in beginning, dream magic, because it requires ability to sleep. The dream magic elfs would need to learn to sleep first. For an elf to actually sleep over revering is simply something they rather not do. My elfs choose to revery due to the ability to look into past memories, to enjoy the good memories again, to go through important matters again in their mind, to deal with matters and usually feel far more refreshed than before.

The ability to reverie grants the elfs the ability to be immune to sleep, the two do not really mix well together, it is either or.

In the end: I would dare say that even though all refer to reverie as reverie, the scope of fey reverie is far different from elven reverie in terms of power. I believe there is even some reverie-related magic that can be unleashed, by the fey, but it might have been unofficial source.

Reverie Fey/Elves & Plane of fey

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