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Uberuce
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 Posted: Sun, Mar 30 2014, 6:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I have played all three WM types: the Devcrit, Epic Dodge and Epic Damage Reduction models.
The STR base doesn't fit your question since it was Ftr11/WM19(greataxe) therefore no UMD although he does have good gear. He's a gimmick build for maximising AB, of which he sits at 53 unbuffed with his Surestrike, and True Strike potions giving 68. His saves are utterly appalling and he doesn't even have Armourskin, but if you don't manage the trivially simple task of killing him before he starting hitting you, there is a decent chance you won't survive the first round of his damage output and 41DC Devcrit.
The CON base was Ftr7/WM5(heavy flail)/DwD18 and therefore didn't have UMD either, but his gear was oldschool loots and DC items; superb. He ran around at under 20AC but didn't care because he reduced the incoming damage to nil or single figures, and regenerated at +10/round. Against bosses I could win by drinking an Elemental Shield potion and going AFK. In PvP he was utter junk - players get crits all the time, and that cut past his 30/- with ease, and in the meantime his middling AB didn't cut the mustard. I've never played a character with such a huge gulf in PvE and PvP ability. I've since come round to seeing that taking 45 or 47AC and going Ftr8/WM7/DwD15 with a onehander is better; the DR is significant, but the AC does clip off mob crits at the low end of their attack register, so it more than compensates.
The DEX base was Rogue17/WM7(handaxe)/Ftr6, so fitted your bill. He remains one of the best builds I've ever played, certainly the best fighter type. In toe-to-toe Arena type matches he was only afraid of twohandering AB-whore WM's and Barbs; everyone else was going to lose unless he rolled 1 on Fort vs Devcrit. The aforementioned 53AB WM would have ripped him in half even if he did pass the saves, since his HP wasn't great from all the Rogue levels and those greataxe crits weighed in at ~200 a pop. In live PvP, he'd never do anything as dumb as that; full ranks in Hide/MS and enough Set Trap to lay nests of Deadly Acids without gearing up meant he'd be cornersneaking all over the place.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Sun, Mar 30 2014, 9:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Uberuce wrote:
The DEX base was Rogue17/WM7(handaxe)/Ftr6, so fitted your bill. He remains one of the best builds I've ever played, certainly the best fighter type. In toe-to-toe Arena type matches he was only afraid of twohandering AB-whore WM's and Barbs; everyone else was going to lose unless he rolled 1 on Fort vs Devcrit. The aforementioned 53AB WM would have ripped him in half even if he did pass the saves, since his HP wasn't great from all the Rogue levels and those greataxe crits weighed in at ~200 a pop. In live PvP, he'd never do anything as dumb as that; full ranks in Hide/MS and enough Set Trap to lay nests of Deadly Acids without gearing up meant he'd be cornersneaking all over the place.
You know how i always go on and on about gear-score and dependency on X item; And while this particular build requires investment in both STR/DEX/CON and a heap of fortitude-not to mention a load of HIDE/MS- it is as you say, one of the best builds I ever have played too. It sits at a reliable decent AB and holds its own with good AC. The downsides are that it lacks a little in the saves compartment, but then again rolls with free Improved Evastion (No need to get the ring) and whacks people with Crippling strike. I loved this build from day one; It was a bitch to level and still is, but 9 out of 10 would build it.
_________________
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NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2
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fashionisdanger
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 7:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Location: Australia
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Quick question about epic spells:
Is better Greater Ruin or Hellball for a pure wizard? I'd go for Greater Ruin since I believe that a pure wizard doesn't lack of proper AoE damage!
My other epic feats will be:
- Epic Mage Armor
- Epic Dragon Knight
- Mummy's Dust
- ESF: Illusion (I am an Illusion specialist, so this is a must)
- ESF: Conjuration
- ESF: Abjuration
_________________ Jalissa yr Kawhala, Illusionist and Conjurer from Calimport Ember Larosa, Sister of The Ruby Rose, Paladin of Lady Firehair -- You think fashion is your friend, my friend, but fashion is danger!
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 9:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I'd drop Epic Mage Armour if you're going pure wizard; without a Tumbledump class, armour, shield and (opinions vary) Auto Still Spell, your AC is going to be poor enough that you might as well not bother.
Just don't get hit. Sounds like I'm joking, but it's really not that hard to arrange as a mage.
I'm a little out of date on Gate, but isn't the CL27 version about as burly as an Epic Mummy Duster? If you have the all day Dragon I can't see much need for EMD except as a backup if the dragon dies, and Gate would work there, I'd have thunk.
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fashionisdanger
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 9:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Location: Australia
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Uberuce wrote: I'd drop Epic Mage Armour if you're going pure wizard; without a Tumbledump class, armour, shield and (opinions vary) Auto Still Spell, your AC is going to be poor enough that you might as well not bother.
Just don't get hit. Sounds like I'm joking, but it's really not that hard to arrange as a mage.
I'm a little out of date on Gate, but isn't the CL27 version about as burly as an Epic Mummy Duster? If you have the all day Dragon I can't see much need for EMD except as a backup if the dragon dies, and Gate would work there, I'd have thunk. Hah! I LOVE the idea of the weak wizard that struggles to not get hit (I am an avid player of Dragonlance setting) and the opinion is quite useful and helpful. Yeah, my AC is gonna be crap regardless since my is DEX also 10. To have TONS of epic summons won't be bad, as per RP my wiz is also a conjurer, but if there is room for more possibilities I might try something different. Has anyone tried Epic Warding? _________________ Jalissa yr Kawhala, Illusionist and Conjurer from Calimport Ember Larosa, Sister of The Ruby Rose, Paladin of Lady Firehair -- You think fashion is your friend, my friend, but fashion is danger!
Last edited by fashionisdanger on Mon, Mar 31 2014, 10:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 10:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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fashionisdanger wrote: Has anyone tried Epic Warding? We wish. It's by far the best epic spell, and only available starting at lvl 31. 
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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fashionisdanger
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 10:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Location: Australia
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_________________ Jalissa yr Kawhala, Illusionist and Conjurer from Calimport Ember Larosa, Sister of The Ruby Rose, Paladin of Lady Firehair -- You think fashion is your friend, my friend, but fashion is danger!
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MarioFanaticXV
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 12:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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Here's my planned build for Samush Skullbreaker; he's currently level 8, though I should mention this build changes his early fighter dip (for heavy armor) from level 6 to level 3, but shouldn't change anything in the long run.
Ogrillion Barbarian 25/Fighter 4
20 Str
14 Dex
17 Con
6 Int
8 Wis
6 Cha
1 - Barbarian (Weapon Focus)
2 - Barbarian
3 - Fighter (Power Attack, Cleave)
4 - Barbarian (Str 21)
5 - Barbarian
6 - Barbarian (Toughness)
7 - Barbarian
8 - Barbarian (Con 18)
9 - Barbarian (Improved Critical)
10 - Barbarian
11 - Barbarian
12 - Barbarian (Con 19, Dodge)
13 - Barbarian
14 - Barbarian
15 - Barbarian (Mobility)
16 - Barbarian (Con 20)
17 - Barbarian
18 - Barbarian (Spring Attack)
19 - Barbarian
20 - Barbarian (Con 21)
21 - Fighter (Epic Damage Reduction I, Great Strength I)
22 - Fighter
23 - Fighter (Epic Damage Reduction II)
24 - Barbarian (Str 23, Mighty Rage)
25 - Barbarian
26 - Barbarian
27 - Barbarian (Great Strength II)
28 - Barbarian (Str 25, Thundering Rage)
29 - Barbarian
At the end you should have 25 Str, 21 Con, both Thundering and Mighty to boost your rages, 11 damage reduction, and 514 HP before equipment. Add in some good Str and Con boosting items to bring your stats up to 32 Str and 28 Con, and you'll have a +11 Str Mod and 601 HP!
The only downside is that you have to enjoy playing as a very dumb and simple-minded character to pull this build off. Though it can be a lot of fun thinking up of misconceptions for such a character.
"Why little lizards no have wings like big lizards?" - Samush Skullbreaker on Troglodytes and Dragons.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 14:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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Why must stupid characters be llliterate and have problems speaking? Look at élan in the order of the stick: he's dumb but not unable to put sentences together.
Geeeeesssh....!
_________________
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 14:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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6 INT is borderline unable to function, IIRC. Heh.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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MarioFanaticXV
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 15:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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Naivatkal wrote: 6 INT is borderline unable to function, IIRC. Heh. This; at 6 Int, he's lucky to be able to speak at all. But I can't stand playing mute characters (even if they happen to be an awesome monk), so Samush can speak, albeit very remedially.
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 18:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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Blindfight and knockdown seem like better feats than dodge, mobility, and spring attack.
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sYuzan
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 18:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 May 2007
Location: location, location!!
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MarioFanaticXV wrote: Naivatkal wrote: 6 INT is borderline unable to function, IIRC. Heh. This; at 6 Int, he's lucky to be able to speak at all. But I can't stand playing mute characters (even if they happen to be an awesome monk), so Samush can speak, albeit very remedially. If a commoner human has 10-12 INT, doesn't 6 INT make you literally a "half-wit"?  _________________ In-Game: guano Ramika wrote: Of the things I know about Guano, half I shouldn't post. Ice wrote: Killer of threads! Bane of continuity. Herald of hiatus. All those things and sometimes even paladins.
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Mercedes
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 19:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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More than half, given the modifier. someone with 14 INT has a modifier of +2, but 6 has a modifier of -2. That's far more than double in point difference.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 19:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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In saying that why must people picture a low int char as unable to speak: there's more to the bush. How about worshipping a donkey? Or thinking your neighbour is a king in disguise? Maybe he/she believes in EVERYTHING people say?
Stuff like that.
_________________
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2
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sYuzan
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 19:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 May 2007
Location: location, location!!
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Mercedes wrote: More than half, given the modifier. someone with 14 INT has a modifier of +2, but 6 has a modifier of -2. That's far more than double in point difference. I would argue that for the sake of arguement. +1 is half of +2. -2 Is less than nothing, while +2 is at least twice something. Thus we can assume that -2 is not even in the same category as +2, for +2 is fairly high intelligence while -2 is not intelligence at all, it is the opposite, stupidity. Assuming -something is anything of +something is like assuming ice is half of fire, which in itself is also partially true. While the two cancel out each other to a state where neither can exist, both fire and water are more or less partially air (read oxygen). And by now my poke at playing the devil's advocate has both become some surprisingly deep shit, but also derailed this topic... Sad, I kinda got myself going there... _________________ In-Game: guano Ramika wrote: Of the things I know about Guano, half I shouldn't post. Ice wrote: Killer of threads! Bane of continuity. Herald of hiatus. All those things and sometimes even paladins.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 20:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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According to the latest research on alcohol overuse, the statistics imply that a bottle of ale reduces your intelligence by two points. It's silly and open to interpretation, and I'd rather be moderate with it. There isn't any other skill point for which you could draw such a huge gulf like that with a difference of a mere two; CHA 8 compared with CHA 10 should be at least somewhat proportional to INT 8 compared with INT 10. CHA 6 should be virtually lacking any means of communication; CON 8 should suffer from severe liver cirrhosis. Besides, here at Build Forum, we like to play min'max with the numbers enough to make up reasonable, more informal excuses as to why our characters' stats are played as they are. I always hide behind the guise of creativity, but I'm just shameless.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Mar 31 2014, 22:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Very_Svensk wrote: In saying that why must people picture a low int char as unable to speak: there's more to the bush. How about worshipping a donkey? Or thinking your neighbour is a king in disguise? Maybe he/she believes in EVERYTHING people say?
Stuff like that. That stuff is fine. But it's literally a mechanical thing that the closer you are to 4 INT (ie animal intelligence) the less functional you are. Think about it, if 4 INT is an animal, 6 INT is just above that.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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fashionisdanger
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 3:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Location: Australia
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I'd say that 6 INT is double the INT of an animal. He would be like a genius dolphin.  _________________ Jalissa yr Kawhala, Illusionist and Conjurer from Calimport Ember Larosa, Sister of The Ruby Rose, Paladin of Lady Firehair -- You think fashion is your friend, my friend, but fashion is danger!
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Mercedes
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 5:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Some animals are smarter than some people. Corvids, for instance.
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Hudson
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 7:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: Bendir's Dale
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Very_Svensk wrote: In saying that why must people picture a low int char as unable to speak: there's more to the bush. How about worshipping a donkey? Or thinking your neighbour is a king in disguise? Maybe he/she believes in EVERYTHING people say?
Stuff like that. Believing everything people tell you is being naive and shows a lack of willpower. I feel that's more a low wisdom then intelligence. Low intelligence means you don't have as much learning capacity (Hence less skillpoints) so yes, I can see a 6 int character to have a severe problem expressing himself in proper common.
_________________
Characters played:
Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)
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sYuzan
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 9:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 May 2007
Location: location, location!!
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Naivatkal wrote: Very_Svensk wrote: In saying that why must people picture a low int char as unable to speak: there's more to the bush. How about worshipping a donkey? Or thinking your neighbour is a king in disguise? Maybe he/she believes in EVERYTHING people say?
Stuff like that. That stuff is fine. But it's literally a mechanical thing that the closer you are to 4 INT (ie animal intelligence) the less functional you are. Think about it, if 4 INT is an animal, 6 INT is just above that. You have a rather high opinion of animal intelligence. At least when it comes to DnD terms. Quote: An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).
Low-light vision.
Alignment: Always neutral. (Source; http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animal_Type) I checked up on some "smart" animals in DnD and Raven for example has 2 Intelligence. A Celestial Porpoise (Closest I found to dolphin) has 3, but it's already a Magical Beast, not an Animal. Dog, 2 Ape, 2 Dire Rat, 1 Dire Ape, 2 Eagle, 2 Elephant, 2 Curiously enough though I found that many if not most animals have around 12-14 Wisdom. Concidering the min-maxed 8 Wisdom builds we often have/see... Animals are wiser than most Amians. EDIT: Ie, they're wise enough not to become adventurers. _________________ In-Game: guano Ramika wrote: Of the things I know about Guano, half I shouldn't post. Ice wrote: Killer of threads! Bane of continuity. Herald of hiatus. All those things and sometimes even paladins.
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Hudson
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: Bendir's Dale
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In second edition Dolphins has intelligence 11-12 (High), apes had 5-7 (low). So I guess you can imagine what I think when I see someone running around with 6 int 
_________________
Characters played:
Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)
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Silvarus
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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2nd ed had massively different take on the stats in the first place though, with no possibility to increase them to superhuman levels.
It made much more sense, but is barely comparable to 3rd ed stats at all.
The older I grow, the more I like 2nd ed over the later editions. Soon I am going to grow all grumpy and start grumbling about the good old times.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Hudson
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 11:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Location: Bendir's Dale
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I am a huge 2e fan so I already do that, ussually along with the mask.
The stats of 2e don't compare to 3e, it's true, especially for the upper ranges.
But the average is about the same -> 8-10 in 2e and about 10-11 in 3e and for lower stats comparing works fairly well too.
_________________
Characters played:
Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)
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sYuzan
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Posted: Tue, Apr 01 2014, 14:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 May 2007
Location: location, location!!
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_________________ In-Game: guano Ramika wrote: Of the things I know about Guano, half I shouldn't post. Ice wrote: Killer of threads! Bane of continuity. Herald of hiatus. All those things and sometimes even paladins.
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WolfKnight1
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Posted: Wed, Apr 02 2014, 1:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Mar 2014
Location: United States
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Quote: Ogrillion Barbarian 25/Fighter 4
20 Str
14 Dex
17 Con
6 Int
8 Wis
6 Cha
1 - Barbarian (Weapon Focus)
2 - Barbarian
3 - Fighter (Power Attack, Cleave)
4 - Barbarian (Str 21)
5 - Barbarian
6 - Barbarian (Toughness)
7 - Barbarian
8 - Barbarian (Con 18)
9 - Barbarian (Improved Critical)
10 - Barbarian
11 - Barbarian
12 - Barbarian (Con 19, Dodge)
13 - Barbarian
14 - Barbarian
15 - Barbarian (Mobility)
16 - Barbarian (Con 20)
17 - Barbarian
18 - Barbarian (Spring Attack)
19 - Barbarian
20 - Barbarian (Con 21)
21 - Fighter (Epic Damage Reduction I, Great Strength I)
22 - Fighter
23 - Fighter (Epic Damage Reduction II)
24 - Barbarian (Str 23, Mighty Rage)
25 - Barbarian
26 - Barbarian
27 - Barbarian (Great Strength II)
28 - Barbarian (Str 25, Thundering Rage)
29 - Barbarian Your Dexterity is nice and high, but being it's not a Dexterity based build I'd drop Dodge / Mobility. Not realing helping you out there. As well as your Intelligence is -far- to low. Your character would most likely only get Discipline / Intimidate. Just my personal advice. _________________ Gabrial Fabious Justin McClure - Adventureing Bard
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Night Mother
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Posted: Thu, Apr 03 2014, 4:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2014
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Night Mother wrote: Hmm, hey guys, I have to say this is my first lvl 30 server I've played on. I was thinking of making a wizard assassin combination, as I'd think the natural INT would be beneficial to both, but trying to think of a build to go with. What sort of weapons, or if the build is actually even doable/useful on this server? I'm unfortunately not that great at making builds. Always get cool ideas, just never know how to spread them out etc.
Was thinking something like 17 wizard 3 fighter 10 assassin (Air Gensai-+2 Intelligence, +2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma, Bonus Feat: Darkvision, Spell-Like Ability: Gust of Wind)
If someone could come up with a list for me, would be greatly appreciated. Part of me was thinking that it'd either be Long Bow if it depended on it's summons with tensers transformation, or go with dual wielding short swords, or some sorts and be in close and personal with mage armor? Reposting this, as it was passed, with no answer of any sorts. Figured lvl 9th spells would be useful, it's why I went with the 17 wizard, but am willing to look at any sort of build that runs the same way, just really wanting to use the long bow, and not go AA, as I enjoy playing different builds.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Thu, Apr 03 2014, 6:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Anything with 15minutes (ie a rest interval's worth) of +5GMW, Mass Haste and Improved Invisibility will get through PvM just fine; it'll only take two halfdecent warrior types and you'll be getting top rate XP, and even without them you'll get decent numbers.
In terms of playing Assassins, I dunno, but my experience of cornersneaking Rogues, mages and heavily split caster classes would suggest that if you want to retain the aforementioned casting ability, the less Assassin levels you have, the better your character is going to be at killing a single predetermined target for money. Likewise, if it's the idea of jumping out of stealth and physically doing fatal amounts of damage and debilitation in the first flurry, then the less Wizard levels the better.
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maglorine
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Posted: Thu, Apr 03 2014, 20:21 PM |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Dwarven Defender. Sidebar says you can take Perfect Health in Epic without meeting the requirements. Does that mean on a DD bonus feat? On a DD level? Only if you have an Epic DD? Or on any level up on any class as long as you have one level of DD?
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Vinasius
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 5:50 AM |
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Joined: 21 May 2007
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Another Theorywar.
In a battle between Casters VS Meleers who would your bet be on?
Scenario is an Armored Sorc versus that of A weaponmaster or barbarian or rogue. This could also include paladins and the like.
Both geared out with epic gear, both skill levels/experience of players is about the same. Assume that both parties have maxed out UMD.
My thoughts are that if the meleer just popped a true strike potion, a mindblank perhaps.. and went hulk on the caster he would have no chance.
So is the commonly held stance that Sorcerers and Wizards are the superior class in pvp a myth?
_________________
Currently starring:
Vinasis D'Magi- Calishite Merchant
Pantheros Sylvanight- Lycanlord of Malar
Artorious Godstrike- Paladin of Torm
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 7:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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If the caster has maintained enough distance in the standoff to cast one spell before the meleer can disrupt their Concentration, the meleer is in a lot of trouble.
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Very_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 7:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Location: (Sweden +1GMT)
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I've always held the opinion that Auto-still spelled sorcerers are the king of everything in pvp; Because one spell ticks them up to 55-57 AC (Depending if they have armor skin or not)
That may not give you immunity towards a WM's attacks, but at least some room to breathe: The rest is taken care of with Mestil's acid sheet while you BARRAGE THEM WITH ISAAC'S MISSILE STORM! BWHAHAHAHA
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Vinasius
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 9:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 May 2007
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Very_Svensk wrote: I've always held the opinion that Auto-still spelled sorcerers are the king of everything in pvp; Because one spell ticks them up to 55-57 AC (Depending if they have armor skin or not)
That may not give you immunity towards a WM's attacks, but at least some room to breathe: The rest is taken care of with Mestil's acid sheet while you BARRAGE THEM WITH ISAAC'S MISSILE STORM! BWHAHAHAHA Uberuce wrote: If the caster has maintained enough distance in the standoff to cast one spell before the meleer can disrupt their Concentration, the meleer is in a lot of trouble. Don't mind me playing "Meleers Advocate". But if they did a knockdown, true strike pot spam...meleers have like 500 + hp going for them. The spell onslaught won't last so long would it? That combined with the fact that meleers can pull out spell mantle scrolls, etc.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 10:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Mage vs Melee encounters are pretty much won before they start, the deciding factor being the distance between the two when it all kicks off, so it's not quite valid to start by assuming the meleer has closed that distance.
If you've managed to arrange matters so that you, as meleer, have boxed the mage in and are within striking distance, then the caster is in a lot of trouble, but if you've done that you're much more skillful than them, and that takes us outwith the starting conditions of the question. It's easier to keep distance than to close it, so for equal skill, the mage has the advantage.
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Mercedes
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 17:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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I'm assuming "Melee" does not account for sneakers with all the various tools and strategies at their disposal?
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 20:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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It does, and this sense 'skillful' becomes more literal; if you can stealth right up to the mage's armpit then you've put him or her in a lot of trouble. Worse if you've trapnested the obvious escape/distance routes.
If the mage has beefulous Spot, then he or she will not allow you to do this, and if canny of traps will have bags of Lanterns of Revealing to flag them.
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Night Mother
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 20:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2014
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Uberuce wrote: Anything with 15minutes (ie a rest interval's worth) of +5GMW, Mass Haste and Improved Invisibility will get through PvM just fine; it'll only take two halfdecent warrior types and you'll be getting top rate XP, and even without them you'll get decent numbers.
In terms of playing Assassins, I dunno, but my experience of cornersneaking Rogues, mages and heavily split caster classes would suggest that if you want to retain the aforementioned casting ability, the less Assassin levels you have, the better your character is going to be at killing a single predetermined target for money. Likewise, if it's the idea of jumping out of stealth and physically doing fatal amounts of damage and debilitation in the first flurry, then the less Wizard levels the better. Ok, that's understandable, I want to be able to cast 9th level spells, but also be able to deal some damage with a bow, assassin seemed like a good choice, due to that the saves are 10+assassin level+int Modifier, I mean it'd be low, but it'd be like fishing for ones, depending what skill I used. Toss on a tensers, and with gear, it'll boost his dex to decentish ab. Only problem I'm finding, even if I go 17 wizard 8 fighter 5 assassin, is that I can't get 4 attacks per round. is there something I'm missing? More or less looking for someone to give me a brief leveler idea. 1-30, what level to take what class. I can figure out the skill distrubution, and can do my own feats, as everyone has their own way of playing, but I can't seem to hit the 16 base attack to get the 4 attacks, only keep hitting 14, and that's if I do a 9 wizard/7fighter/4 assassin spread was going to save 1 assassin, 1 fighter for last two levels for disci and tumble dump.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 20:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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If there's an answer it's beyond me. Looks like NWN hates your character concept.
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maglorine
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 21:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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You cannot hit 16 with that level spread.
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True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Silvarus
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Posted: Fri, Apr 04 2014, 21:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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If we had Eldritch Knight in the hak...
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Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Casvenx
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Posted: Sat, Apr 05 2014, 2:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2013
Location: Badlands of 'Murika
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Night Mother wrote: Ok, that's understandable, I want to be able to cast 9th level spells, but also be able to deal some damage with a bow, assassin seemed like a good choice, due to that the saves are 10+assassin level+int Modifier, I mean it'd be low, but it'd be like fishing for ones, depending what skill I used. Toss on a tensers, and with gear, it'll boost his dex to decentish ab. Only problem I'm finding, even if I go 17 wizard 8 fighter 5 assassin, is that I can't get 4 attacks per round. is there something I'm missing? More or less looking for someone to give me a brief leveler idea. 1-30, what level to take what class. I can figure out the skill distrubution, and can do my own feats, as everyone has their own way of playing, but I can't seem to hit the 16 base attack to get the 4 attacks, only keep hitting 14, and that's if I do a 9 wizard/7fighter/4 assassin spread was going to save 1 assassin, 1 fighter for last two levels for disci and tumble dump. I'm not a great builder, but I do play a mage-sneak. The assassin force-saves are only if the target is not aware of you, so fishing for 1's is fairly difficult. The Amia specific skills are also spread through the levels, not all at once (meaning, with assassin4 I think you would get only the first two skills listed). Assassin really only shines at all when you heavily invest in it, and the force-saves are still pretty low to actually catch much, from what I've heard. I just noticed you said originally assassin10, that would net the first 5 Amia-assassin skills, but would probably leave the saves pretty low, since you are splitting your focus between stats. If you want bow damage, the only real option is arcane archer (which is elf only, obviously). Sneak attacks add on, but you need to be within 15 feet, and you won't usually want your squishy mage that close. The mage-sneak combo is fun, but it's a toolbox character, not a heavy hitter. Your probably better off with a stronger focus in one class or the other, and rogue would more likely benefit you over assassin. You can still fish for one's with onhit effects and such. 4 attacks is terribly difficult to do when your focus is on the lowest two AB advancement classes. _________________ 
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Night Mother
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Posted: Sat, Apr 05 2014, 16:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Mar 2014
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Casvenx wrote: Night Mother wrote: Ok, that's understandable, I want to be able to cast 9th level spells, but also be able to deal some damage with a bow, assassin seemed like a good choice, due to that the saves are 10+assassin level+int Modifier, I mean it'd be low, but it'd be like fishing for ones, depending what skill I used. Toss on a tensers, and with gear, it'll boost his dex to decentish ab. Only problem I'm finding, even if I go 17 wizard 8 fighter 5 assassin, is that I can't get 4 attacks per round. is there something I'm missing? More or less looking for someone to give me a brief leveler idea. 1-30, what level to take what class. I can figure out the skill distrubution, and can do my own feats, as everyone has their own way of playing, but I can't seem to hit the 16 base attack to get the 4 attacks, only keep hitting 14, and that's if I do a 9 wizard/7fighter/4 assassin spread was going to save 1 assassin, 1 fighter for last two levels for disci and tumble dump. I'm not a great builder, but I do play a mage-sneak. The assassin force-saves are only if the target is not aware of you, so fishing for 1's is fairly difficult. The Amia specific skills are also spread through the levels, not all at once (meaning, with assassin4 I think you would get only the first two skills listed). Assassin really only shines at all when you heavily invest in it, and the force-saves are still pretty low to actually catch much, from what I've heard. I just noticed you said originally assassin10, that would net the first 5 Amia-assassin skills, but would probably leave the saves pretty low, since you are splitting your focus between stats. If you want bow damage, the only real option is arcane archer (which is elf only, obviously). Sneak attacks add on, but you need to be within 15 feet, and you won't usually want your squishy mage that close. The mage-sneak combo is fun, but it's a toolbox character, not a heavy hitter. Your probably better off with a stronger focus in one class or the other, and rogue would more likely benefit you over assassin. You can still fish for one's with onhit effects and such. 4 attacks is terribly difficult to do when your focus is on the lowest two AB advancement classes. Thank you for the information, I did however clue in that with rapid fire activated, and haste, that'd give me 5 attacks per round, where another class would give me 6. Thinking I may just ditch the wizard idea, and go 6 ranger/18 assassin/ 6 sd with focus on longbow.
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Neo46
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Posted: Sun, Apr 06 2014, 23:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Location: The Bluegrass State
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I'm thinking about doing a Dragon Disciple and I'm wanting something kinda fun. I was thinking 18 monk/ 2 bard/ 10 DD. 8 monk/ 2 Bard/ 10 DD pre-epic while using a quarterstaff. Really I just want to know if the pre-epic level distribution is OK. Thanks all.
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Rhek the Wall
Anzety Alean'ndar
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Sun, Apr 06 2014, 23:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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I'm debating dropping Epic Prowess in favor of Weapon Finesse, on a Rogue/AA. I realise that you need every single point of AB you can get, but it's already high enough that I'm thinking the +1 I get from Prowess may not compare with the 'option' I'd have of a +15 AB to a light weapon if needed. The only situations I imagine this coming out in are against a boss, where I need the AC of a shield, and perhaps in situations where I need to subdue an attacker rather than shoot them to death.
Most likely only going to be attacking to kill something with arrows anyway, but I was thinking this is a more reasonable option to make the character a little more rounded. He uses a Longbow, Trident and Mace anyway, so this would be benefiting the mace. I already know that Epic Prowess is the right choice for maximising AB on longbow, which is the character's main strength.
It's more a choice between 'focusing all on strengths' and 'accounting for situations where he'll be caught without a bow'.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Mon, Apr 07 2014, 0:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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Gobbledygook wrote: I'm debating dropping Epic Prowess in favor of Weapon Finesse, on a Rogue/AA. I realise that you need every single point of AB you can get, but it's already high enough that I'm thinking the +1 I get from Prowess may not compare with the 'option' I'd have of a +15 AB to a light weapon if needed. The only situations I imagine this coming out in are against a boss, where I need the AC of a shield, and perhaps in situations where I need to subdue an attacker rather than shoot them to death.
Most likely only going to be attacking to kill something with arrows anyway, but I was thinking this is a more reasonable option to make the character a little more rounded. He uses a Longbow, Trident and Mace anyway, so this would be benefiting the mace. I already know that Epic Prowess is the right choice for maximising AB on longbow, which is the character's main strength.
It's more a choice between 'focusing all on strengths' and 'accounting for situations where he'll be caught without a bow'. I pondered the same with Silwe but for a non-epic feat. Decided to go against it, since downgrading from a bow using AA arrows to a melee weapon is unlikely to be a good idea under any circumstances. You are considering using an epic feat for the same, in which case I would definitely say that Weapon Finesse is not worth it. Might be if you had had a pre-epic feat to spare.
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Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Mon, Apr 07 2014, 0:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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Nah, didn't have any to spare. Prowess is my level 30 feat, so I figured it'd be reasonably easy to change.
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Charles1810
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Posted: Mon, Apr 07 2014, 0:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Hubbard, Ohio
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Neo46 wrote: I'm thinking about doing a Dragon Disciple and I'm wanting something kinda fun. I was thinking 18 monk/ 2 bard/ 10 DD. 8 monk/ 2 Bard/ 10 DD pre-epic while using a quarterstaff. Really I just want to know if the pre-epic level distribution is OK. Thanks all. Can not be a monk/bard one has to be lawful other chaotic.
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Neo46
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Posted: Mon, Apr 07 2014, 1:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Location: The Bluegrass State
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Bah, I knew that. Replace Bard with wizard then!
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Active Character:
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Rhek the Wall
Anzety Alean'ndar
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Apr 07 2014, 7:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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