"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder when met"
Just to complicate things, a cornersneak with detect skills is probably going to stomp a non-anti-SD Shadowdancer if the area you're in has....well...corners.
On bard/fighter feats: I have made a two-handering bard with some fighter thrown in and now wondering if still-spell is a good idea with epic sill spell II (orwossitsname) in epic? Its either that or PA+Cleave/dodge of great fort. I'm aiming for 25 bard levels.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
_________________ "Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
I want to build a pure 30 wizard who focuses on evocation and abjuration, so much so, that he's actually a specialist evoker. He'll have all the spell focus feats for those two schools and epic spell penetration, but what other feats should a responsible, master-energy-manipulator war-wizard have?
Technically NOTHING, save for a drow, will resist your spells. And it's only a 20% chance during PVP.
Monks, high-level demons/devils/etc. while grinding, drow.
Epic Mummy Dust doesn't make much sense for him, since he's a blaster, but the other three epic spells I already figured he'd take, since they're right up his ally - energy manipulation.
Replace epic mummy dust with epic spell penetration, maybe? In addition to, admittedly, limited use, it makes RP sense. A master of his craft shouldn't have people resisting it, at least not with ease.
Auto still spell is pretty badass, but if I only take one of them, I only get level 1-3 spells for free. Maybe I should take all three, and laugh as I cast spells in 150 pounds of armor?
The bonus granted by this spell consists of +5 deflection bonus, +5 dodge bonus, +5 armor bonus, and +5 natural armor bonus. The deflection, armor, and natural bonuses do not stack with bonuses of the same type.
The sole type of armor class bonus not granted by this spell is a shield bonus.
The bonus granted by this spell consists of +5 deflection bonus, +5 dodge bonus, +5 armor bonus, and +5 natural armor bonus. The deflection, armor, and natural bonuses do not stack with bonuses of the same type.
The sole type of armor class bonus not granted by this spell is a shield bonus.
Is that not the case for EMA on Amia?
No, it's definitely the case, only the dodge bonus stacks. That's why I'm confused.
EDIT: Oh, Svensk. You're tired. WELL THAT MAKES IT OK TO SCREW UP AC CALCULATIONS THEN
Okay, so I have a STR-based monk I began years ago and just recently picked up again. I greatly enjoy the RP this character has gotten, but the build itself is pretty bad. I didn't really know what I was doing when I made it, nor did I have much of a plan.
I want to continue playing the character, but I would like to rebuild it soon so that I can at least fight viably. It's a STR-based purebuild drow monk (haven't hit the cap yet). I'm unarmed currently, but I was thinking of going staff. A while back, I was recommended to go pure monk with a staff, and get 14 DEX/WIS and get dev-crit. It doesn't have to be perfect, but is this viable? What sort of feats/skills should I get?
I've tried building it myself in a test module, and even with dev-crit it doesn't feel strong enough to kill something before it kills me because of the low CON and AC I have. I want to keep at least 20 levels of monk for character, and I cap at level 28 because of ECL +2.
I tried building just that, something 20 monk / fighter / ? and couldn't get above 51-ish AC without serious buffs. The ECL hurts too... seems to die really fast for the mediocre damage it puts out with Quarterstaff.
That build isn't much of a soloist. The Sneakspammer Rogue16/Ftr8/Monk6 I played recently got to 51AC, so you can expect a Monk20 to be on 54. Nothing special; only slightly higher than your normal tankly type, but your AB is down at the low 40's, so your niche is flatfooted people and mobs. He's ridiculously brutal against both of the above, but without a Taunter, Bard or Cleric to help the AB problem, he's pretty rubbish against bosses.
In PvP I never managed to get his gearset up to scratch; the stat spread across STR/DEX/WIS is manageable in PvM but there wasn't room for adequate saves and Discipline boosting as well.
The synergy between Sneak Attack and Monk UBAB progression is so strong that I really would go for heavy Rogue over heavy Monk.
Monk1 is Monk30, in the Uberuce Guide To ArrPee, but if the speed and Perfect Self are prerequisites, then Monk21/Ftr6/Assn1 (I assume it's ebil drow) will give Devcrit, EWS, Armourskin and leave one epic feat spare if you take all the Ftr levels in epic. That bumps you down by one attack, which for me would put the character concept in the bin because I really would want 7 attacks Flurried but UnHasted so that there were 3 in the first flurry, but I'm fussy so feel free to ignore me.
(This is an impossible feat order, it's just to see if there's enough of them) 21 Great STR 24 Epic WF 27 Over
1 Dev 2 Armour 4 6 EWS
Oh, it's Assassin rather than Rogue mostly because that means you can use the various Sneak Attack 1d6 items and they'll stack with your Death Attack, but the chance for your target to roll a 1 and be paralysed is....well it's a one-off shot for a 1; not great, but it's going to happen eventually.
Detection skills and stealth skills are almost guaranteed to be on every SD. But I think the truly best anti-SD shadowdancer would be a shadowdancing mage, capable of producing AoE spells against the typically weaker saves of someone dedicated to hiding.
A 23 Sorcerer/6 SD/1 Ranger build is very solid. Super flexible. Your ability to dip into the shadows makes for exciting mage dueling, you've got great mobility and utility against critters. And your ability to pummel SD's is solid.
Of course, any rogue or SD worth his salt knows how to gear appropriately for a mage. But there's generally a counter to most everything. The SD/Sorcerer combo gives you a lot of freedom to explore and diversify your techniques.
The sorc / Sd is incredibly good: But requires way to much Hide/ms, leaving other abilities and useful slots in the gear occupied. You don't have enough mythal space basically.
The best SD for making other SDs feel clumsy and loud is Bard23/SD6/Ranger1, when outside of course.
The ever so slightly important detail is that you can only tickle them as you pop out of stealth, and even with Heal potion cooldown you'd be hard pressed to kill them before reset. Even if you started right after the server rebooted.
Is 57 the highest I can achieve without improved expertise? Is it worth it, for either PvE or PvP, in general, to switch IKD for Improved Expertise, and just use regular knockdown? I'm inclined to say no, but I'd like to hear from the more munchkin-experienced people.
Well it depends on your build. It's not really the max AC anyone can get because you are being selective with feats etc. You've obviously gone for a Barbarian/something with no tumble class, so the max AC will be dependant on that.
A Monk WM Fighter will get a similar AC with robes and more tumble, dex, wis and Monk AC. Dodge is really not worth the feat for +1 situational AC.
You could go a Bard/ Dragon Disciple/ Pale Master with Improved Expertise.
Any Divine Shield class can get massive AC whilst wielding a two hander.
If a devcrit 2 hander can't get higher than 45ish AC without massive buffs, is it possible to ignore AC on gear and focus on something else? This is without DwD.
I know what makes for good AC, but not when AC is low to where we shouldn't even bugger with it.
Low AC is bad, any kind of low. I thought good offense (insane in fact) is going to substitute for my latest build's mediocre AC, and at around 50 i got pummeled by a couple of Yetis in under two rounds.
Even 45AC is worth having in PvMob - you can still loot from the shallow end of the +4bin and not see much above 30AB. That means you're getting hit 25% of the time on their top attack so it ain't gonna be pretty and you might not want to try if your connection is laggy. It does however mean you're getting missed 95% of the time by 2/3 or 3/4 of the incoming attacks, and there's nothing you can craft or buy that can beat that.
As Hodie points out, 45AC ain't enough to XP well once you're in the big dog stretch.
It's harder to talk about PvP and PvBoss because the spread of AB is so wide; at the top end, you might as well abandon AC since even the bottom attack needs to roll very low, but at the bottom end, you can still chop off around 50% of the incoming flak.
For a full +4 set and +5 boots, it's only six Mythal slots nowadays, whereas a full +5 set is ten, and I personally look at 4 slots and think: that's +12 to a save or +20 Discipline. And then I think: 'yeeeeah, in theory but not often in practise' so I cry great soft tears of woe.
Man I am getting mixed messages. It feels like if I'm just going to be hit, I might as well stack constitution, some DR gear, and saves hoping to kill things before they kill me.
So I have a great STR Weaponmaster build I like, tailored from assistance you folks gave, but the gearing is driving me mad.
Edit: Also, with all the strength in the world and the fighter weapon spec feats, how do WMs crit over 300? I can't break 200 without a scythe.
Is 57 the highest I can achieve without improved expertise? Is it worth it, for either PvE or PvP, in general, to switch IKD for Improved Expertise, and just use regular knockdown? I'm inclined to say no, but I'd like to hear from the more munchkin-experienced people.
I'm pretty sure you can manage more if you are creative about it. Say you went Strong heart halfling. you gain +1 size bonus right there and then and I believe another dodge ac if I'm not mistaken, so thats actually a +2 right there. You're also only counting haste. If you add mage armor pot that's another +1 dodge bonus ac. and if you some how manage to acquire epic spells in your two hander build and grab EMA that's another +5 Dodge bonus to ac (Unless of course, the epic spell has been edited here) which, as far as I can see it has not been edited.
So right now we go tall your crap at a total of 57. If we go a strong heart halfling, doing a cross class with Bard and some grab epic spells via PRC class... we're looking at...
57+5+2+1= 65 AC total. Not too bad to be honest... then again you aren't a tank either. When it comes to two handed melee's you should be focused mainly on 2 things: Hitting things, and hitting them harder than they can hit you. Hmmmm... I'm bored and I guess while I'm here I'm going to post the build I was going to use for Myk.
Build Name: AH'LL KICK YURH ASS! Alignment: WHA'EVER YEH LIKE Race:STRONG'EART 'IN. ONLEH TUR BEST RACE Y'COULD ASK FER Job: HINLEH MAYLAY DEE PEE S. CRIT LIKE FUCK AN' CUT'EM TALLERSH DOWN!
Starting Stats 20 Strength: FITNESS 13 Dexterity: BUT DON'T TELL ANYONE YOU INVESTED POINTS HERE. 12 Constitution: AH'LL JUS' HAVE TA KICK YURH ASSS B'FORE Y' KICK MINE! 13 Intelligence: SERIOUS EDYACATION IS FER PUSSEHS! 8 Wisdom: WHA? 8 Charisma: AH DUN NEED'EM FANCEH STATS TUR B' PURTEH. AH'VE GOT MUSCLES!
Ending Stats 32 (Native) Strength - 44 (Items) Strength: FITNESS Everything else remains the same. I recommend getting Con Items to go with your strength items. You will only be raising strength.
Classes Fighter HINLEHEST FUCKIN' CLASS IN TUR GAME Weapon Master CAUSE'EM THIN's NEED TUR DIE LIKE RIGH' NOW Master Scout ...WAIT WHA!? THA CLASS DURN LOOK HINLEH! WHY AM AH TAKIN' ET!?
Feat and class Progression by level
Fighter I. Dodge, Weapon Focus: Scimitar or Battle Axe. Scimitar is prefrence. II. Expertise (Chances are you won't use it too much but let's get it out of the way) III. Spring Attack IV. Weapon Specialization: Your Weapon of Choice V. Nada VI. Whirlwind Attack Weapon Master I. Pick your weapon of choice II. More class features or some shit III. Power Attack. IV. Nada V. Nada VI. Improved Critical: Your favorite flavor of Weapon. Fighter VII. Nada VIII. Cleave IX. Toughness X. Great Cleave XI. Nada XII. Blind Fight, Monkey Grip (or Iron Will. monkey grip is recommended.) XIII. Improved Combat Expertise Master Scout I. Great Strength, Great Strength II. Nada III. Great Strength IV. Nada V. Great Strength. Fighter XIV. Great Strength, Overwhelming Critical XV. Nada XVI. Epic Prowess XVII. Great Strength XVIII. Devastating Critical
EDIT: Brother screwed me up earlier. Added the appropriate epic feats....
Anyway let's have a formal overview of this build.
All damage is comes from raw halfling strength and crits. While I leave it a matter of choice between Scimitar and Battle Axe, ultimately my prefrence is Scimitar for 10-20 crit ration (50% crit chance). Aside from that we gain full tumble thanks to Master Scout. Weapon essences or some shit, and native Freedom so that way nothing can break your stride! Hitpoints remain uncalculated, AC is also uncalculated... but AB is massive standing at about... 55 or more. Items potions and spells could easily get you up to maybe 60 or so.
The type of gear you will be getting
Weapon (Scimitar or Battle axe) Fullplate (Yes.) Towershield (Provided you have monkey grip)
You have 6, not 7, weapon master levels, and you have no epic weapon specialization, which is a big damage boost. Like, imagine a +5 weapon, hard to get right? That feat basically makes it a +9 weapon, for damage purposes. +4 damage is awesome. You also took Epic Prowess instead of Epic Weapon Focus. In addition, purely from a standpoint of Frugdar, I have Ferocity Attack, which is self-haste and +10 damage per hit, at his current level. Here's a graph of me raging vs. you not raging:
You have 6, not 7, weapon master levels, and you have no epic weapon specialization, which is a big damage boost. Like, imagine a +5 weapon, hard to get right? That feat basically makes it a +9 weapon, for damage purposes. +4 damage is awesome. You also took Epic Prowess instead of Epic Weapon Focus. In addition, purely from a standpoint of Frugdar, I have Ferocity Attack, which is self-haste and +10 damage per hit, at his current level. Here's a graph of me raging vs. you not raging:
Yeah. Wrote it up quickly at school so there's a few mistakes I didn't bother to go through mostly because I left sooner than I thought I was going to; including Epic weapon focus which I had no real intention of taking and cut of my build about a few hours ago. Damage chart doesn't surprise me considering what they did to barbarian, and because it's a halfling. Ferocity Attack is actually better than a self haste. Was going to fix it up later and go through it but enh... think people get the idea of taking master scout during epic levels for an extra ab and damage alongside fighter bonus feats
This is because it stacks with Haste... Amia did very lovely things to Barbarian on the server as your chart clearly expresses
Here's a thought Amia. Is A wizard/wm possible without sucking? I'm thinking wizard17/wm7/fighter6
However the obvious problem here is the lack of epic spells. Wut du.
The main problem with wizard multiclassing is that you lose -really- valuable stuff, most of the time. Other classes can multiclass, or even splash, and add something great to the build. Casting classes, oftentimes, only come into their own in the late levels, or epic levels.
Your proposed build would be fine for PvE grinding, since you don't particularly need an epic summon with those fighter/wm levels, but for pvp, wizards require these things usually, to have casting as an effective main-weapon:
- Epic spells that do lots of damage with no saves (Greater Ruin, Hellball) - Good defense strategy, since being caught unwarded is death for most wizards (a decent tactic, if you have a decent AC already, is timestop + EMA + other-defensive-option (haste, improved invis, whatever)) - Lots of caster levels for spells like IGMS, which require caster levels for fuel - Lots of high-level spell slots for maximized, extended, or empowered spells. A typical meleer will take 3 maximized IGMS before dying, and a tanky one will take four and still come at you. This is why epic spells or disabling spells are great: - Disabling spells with good DC's, often requiring either a really high INT and epic spell focus, or high caster levels (for the Bigby's line of spells, at least).
You have no excess of caster levels, meaning Bigby's is out, if you're pvping a level 30 with a decent armor class; if they also have either mind protection or half-decent will saves, disabling is not possible in the conventional sense. You can use grease and cloud spells to slow them and/or damage them at the same time, and you yourself can melee in these without worrying, if you ward yourself from the slow effect. It's a good Spellsword strategy if you're able to focus on one guy at a time.
Wut du if you're fighting a bunch of people?
Normally, and this has been done on the server before, two hellballs can kill lots of people. IGMS with sufficient caster levels will annihilate any remaining resistance unless they drink a heal potion; but at that point, you and your partner can Bigby's them.
However, you might be alone, and you have no Bigby's or epic hellball. The suggested tactic here is to timestop, gsanc, run away to the other side of the map, buff up, come back, unleash a cloud spell to slow/damage them, dispel them, run in and start whacking away.
An option to consider, when going the spellsword route, is going armor-less, and focusing on DEX for AC, that way you save feats for other things. However, if that is not an option, you can also take Auto Still-Spell, which takes one feat and three epic feats, meaning it sucks dicks. The last option is to cast spells at your enemies, buff up whenever it's advantageous (usually before you cast offensive spells, since running and buffing is way safer than buffing in front of hostiles), then tenser's up and go full retard melee.
Long story short: Cloud spells are your friend. So is haste. Haste lets you get off spells before people can wtfpwn you, usually.
This has been your totally unqualified guide to spellswords, if I made glaring mistakes, please correct me, anyone-in-particular.
Here's a thought Amia. Is A wizard/wm possible without sucking? I'm thinking wizard17/wm7/fighter6
However the obvious problem here is the lack of epic spells. Wut du.
The levelling looks annoying. You'll start out mostly as a melee character to maximize AB. Something like Wiz 8 / Fighter 4 / WM 6 at level 20. That's level 4 spells at Level 20. Then things should pick up on the arcane front, but very slowly.
Also, a Wizard 17 has access to all spells, but caster level determines duration, power, spell penetration, dispelling ... It's important for a lot of things. You won't be casting offensively, but your premonition is only half as good as that of a wiz 30.
Mind you, spellswords are fun to play as opposed to wizards that never ever attack. A wizard 30 is just so uber that everything that tries to be a wizard with less wizard levels will look really bad in comparison.
Here's my noob idea: Going Wizard 21 / WM 5 / F4 would make a semi-decent wizard out of you, imho. It has the same amount of bonus feats. You can probably grab WS+EWS in epic. Also you get 1 epic spell (EMA, I suppose). Your BAB is 14 in preepic, as opposed to 16 with the 4th attack on the Wiz 17 / WM 7 / F6, but EMA is a very nice thing to have on a front-liner with not so much HP ... It's your only reliable spell (undispellable) and makes gearing a lot easier.
A Wizard 23 / WM 5 / F2 is almost a real wizard, but it loses 1 feat, 6 damage, 1 AB and needs to take WM 5 late in epic for the discipline dump ... Uggh.
Hope that helps, Ts
Edit, PS: For PvP, I suppose, you should be an almost-pure caster, an SD or maybe a fast devcritter ... As you're none of that, don't expect to be great. I just aim for decent PvE survivability in my builds (or not even that ;).
24Wizard/5WM/1Monk - Quarterstaff madness! 22Wizard/7WM/1Monk - Quarterstaff madness with more crits! 24Wizard/5Fighter/1 Monk - The basic Spellsword but with a quarterstaff!
Damn it, Wiz 23 / WM 5 / F4 doesn't work out in epic. You cannot take EWS and epic spell on that (or you have to delay the WM partially into epic, which further hurts BAB a bit).
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
Quarterstaff everything sounds nice.
I still don't know what they were thinking when they added quarterstaff to monk bab progression. If you take even one level of monk, there will never be any reason to use any other weapon.
All my old monks with weapons like greataxes and bastard swords are pointless, and doomed to forever rot in my vault unless I rebuild them. That change made the weapon so good practically all 2h weapon users could take a monk level and use one.
_________________ Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar Silwe, the elf
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