I'm looking to help gain some insight into the DMs view of DC request posts as I have wanted to request some items but I all ways find myself having a hard time getting something passed by the balance aspect... even effects they already have on items in the loot table.

I have seen players ask about items they wish to request they are told they cant/wont look at anything till the RP is done... but then OOC stomp it in the name of "balance" so if OOC is just going to trump the RP no matter what why not say "it could be done with RP" or "that's not going to happen no matter what, we don't let people request ______ on items"


I asked about a item with Immunity to the spell Implosion and minor resistance to raw magical harm(5-10 DR magic) on a amulet, because I thought it was reasonable request, but I was informed it was to powerful and that nothing with immunity other then elemental(fire, cold, acid ,electric), fear, poison and diseases are acceptable.

What I cant understand is why, immunity to a single spell cast by a single class is deemed more powerful then a say 100% immunity to fire that grants protection from

Wizard/Sorc
◾Burning hands◾Combust◾Flame weapon◾Fireball◾Flame arrow◾Elemental shield◾Wall of fire◾Firebrand◾Delayed blast fireball◾Incendiary cloud ◾Meteor Swarm 1/2
Cleric
◾Darkfire ◾Flame strike 1/2 ◾Fire storm 1/2
Druid
◾Flame lash ◾Flame strike 1/2 ◾Inferno ◾Wall of fire ◾Fire storm 1/2

Hellball 1/5

And all the other effects with fire be it magical weapon enchantment, arrows, breath attacks, fire traps....ect (assuming I missed no other spells in my list)

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I agree with Cory on this one. OOCly denying requests always irked me a little bit. I'd much rather see an IC explanation to "denied" requests. If something is "too powerful" then at least give the player some explanation and answer why is it too powerful. Especially when RP was done in advance. Is it Mystra's ban? Is it Gond's ban? Is the material used in the request unable to hold that amount of power? Did it simply fail and the character needs to discover why?

That leaves the player a window for improvement. For trying another route. And even then, if you deem the request too OP, again an IC explanation can be given.

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Balance takes a lot of things into account. Each request is considered, weighed, and measured according to a number of factors:

- The requested character's build
- The precedent set by current requests
- The possibility of a request setting a new precedent
- The limitation or avoidance of "power creep"
- The role play justification for abilities and powers

Any or all of these items can lead to the acceptance or refusal of a request. A perfect example, Cory, is that giving your Risenlord Shifter Damage Resistance to Magic (especially up to 10) and making them immune to Implosion would effectively remove two of the very few venues mobs or players have to defeat you. They increase your power exponentially, not incrementally.

However, I do see merit in a request with solid role play being denied with an In Character justification and an Out of Character reason given side-by-side. It would prevent any players from feeling as if they "wasted" their role play. The only issue with such a system, however, would be yet more precedents and data that the staff have to keep up with and adhere to -- which is taxing and time consuming and would, undoubtedly, slow down the request approval / denial / delivery process even further.

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"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."

That still does not explain the poor logic, I can have a ring that outright makes me immune many more spells and effects that by your own comment limits even more people and monsters as it effects more things from being able to effect me, but a single spell cast by a single class and maybe all of 1 or 2 spawns in the game is worse?

And also by making each request based off a single character alone (given that's fully OOC and nothing to do with IC) I believe all requests should be able to be asked OOC if they are able to be done/passed before even wasting time IC if its clear that by the stance of the team it seems RP is irrelevant and all that matters if the DMs will pass it or not, given two people could request the same item with the same RP and only one of them is deemed acceptable to have it.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I don't think you read my previous post, Cory. There's more that goes into a request than solely role play because there's more to this game than solely role play. There is a reason discussions are had -- the staff never simply says "no" without reasoning; or, at least, they shouldn't. They should always offer an alternative (if one is available).

By your logic, I should be able to role play my way into gear that allows me to be immune to everything -- all damage, all spells, all maladies. That can't be the case because at the end of the day this is a game, and it must be fair. Players are rewarded for their hard work and role play dedication by having the ability to "purchase" items that are slightly better than what is available in the module. These items must still not unbalance the server. These are primary foci for item and ability requests, simultaneously considered with "does it make sense."

Does a Ring of Fire Immunity make you immune to a lot of spells? Absolutely. Does that ring make a Risenlord Shifter suddenly unbeatable -- or very nearly so? Sure doesn't. None of the elemental immunity rings do. But an item that makes him effectively immune to Isaac's Missile Storms and mitigates the magic damage he regularly does to himself - as well as makes him immune to the single death spell that still effects him even in his notorious undead shape - is just silly. Everyone, every character, every build must have weaknesses. They may be mitigated. They may be decreased. But they cannot be outrighted removed. What, then, would beat Cory? He's immune to everything and one of the few things he doesn't have tons of damage resistance or reduction toward suddenly drops from useful to nil. What would other players do in PvP? What would DMs do to threaten him? Don't be silly; and, out of respect for other people - staff included - don't play dumb. You know very well that a ring that gives 100% elemental immunity is not even remotely worth the same mechanical weight as something that grants you immunity to one or two niche items if those two niche items are your only weaknesses.

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"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."

And what I am saying, if we they going to be OOC turned down on requests for OOC reasons lets do away with this "Do the RP then we will see" how about we post the stats... DMs give a OOC yes or no to the item for that player....then they try and do the RP.

No because I view it like the mythal system, stuff has a power limit and cost.... so unless you can start putting pn 10 rings on your fingers, 10 on your toes and if your a guy a extra one. you will run out of places to put stuff.



And again you said it....it all boils down to OOC mechanical weight...so the staff should stop saying do RP when in the end if the items going to be turned down because of OOC stuff.... that is my big problem. Do a bunch of work for nothing because its not just "no , the RP is not there yet" its "no, because your you, and it was all ways going to be that way...."

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

The staff reserves the right to grant all requests based on over all power level, the character's build, the RP involved, and the power-level we want to maintain for the server, which is something we are evaluating near constantly. Everyone has a right to make a request, and we would hope that they take a "no" gracefully and understand that it is not personal or that we want to make you do work for nothing, and further hope that you would have enjoyed the RP building up to it and realize that a request is never a "gimme" situation or something to road map out.

I'm locking this because there is no discussion to be had.

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"The world takes and takes, even things that aren't offered. Finally, it gave us something back; I wish he was here to share it with me."