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I recall reading a while back (forget where) that drow can reverie, but Eilistraeean drow refrain from the practice (or they can't do it, I forget). Is this true? Can drow reverie? Is it naturally disturbing for them to do so? And do Eilistraeean drow choose not to reverie, or can they at all? Or is it the other way around, with evil drow being unable to reverie and goodly drow being able?

I will be grateful for the clarification!

Well, from what I've read, most Eilistraeen can reverie, but choose not to. When an elf reveries, they replay memories and experiences from their past. For an Eili who turned from Llothism or Vhaerunism, I'd think that could be a horribly traumatic experience, forcing them to return to a time when they commit acts they now consider debased and shameful. The opposite is true for underdark drow. While they have no problems reliving their dark deeds over and over, many of them find it impossible to reverie, either not being able to enter the state or not finding it restful, and instead require dreamless sleep to recuperate. Keep in mind though that I have not seen this in actual sourcebooks, but Forgotten Realms novels, specifically Daughter of the Drow and others by Elaine Cunningham. On the other hand i have not seen it countermanded by other books, and it makes some nice flavor for RP. To me, the idea behind it is that Underdark drow have so diverged from elven nature that they are losing touch with whatever gives elves the ability to enter reverie, and so gradually the ability disappears from them.

I have not read anything officially saying all drow are unable to reverie, only this small part from the forgotten realms wiki, "Like all elves, drow required no sleep but instead entered a meditative trance throughout which they retained full awareness of their surroundings. This state was half-again more efficient than the way in which most races gained rest. However, many drow appeared to actually sleep because they could not find the peace in themselves to enter this reverie."

In the server many drow characters speak normally of their meditation/reverie, so I supposed it's up to your character's resolve whether they can do it or not.

I can't remember where i read it, but it suggested Drow don't Reverie, and likely Evil Elves for that matter, because of the anxiety and danger in their lives. In effect when a Drow tries such, they would relive, vividly, tortures, torments, abuse, anxiety, fear. There would be no restful state to be found, they would be stuck watching 4 hours of murder porn.

Though Elves are not free of this issue either as i understand it, an elf that has experienced a great trauma, like say.. drow wiped out their camp and 1 person survived hidden under the body of a dead mother? Yeah, that elf won't be getting much mileage out of Reverie for awhile. Elves that experience war and loss have issues with this. I once read of something called a Dream Eater, an Elf within the community that could take such negativity upon themselves, and free others to find rest in Reverie. Though the Dream Eater can't Reverie because of it. That might have been in Elves of Faerun, but i'm not sure where it came from before that.

Edit: Eilistraeen Drow born on the surface that never had to go through the torment of Lolth society likely don't have issues with Reverie, if they were trained to do so. But really, i dont think its a natural thing, you learn to do it, so.. if Drow don't practice it because it sucks for them, why would the knowledge of it have passed down over the years, for an Eilistraeen to teach their surface born child? Would it even occur to them that the should learn it? I mean.. (Rough example) Monks spend hours meditating every day, and i'm sure its great for them, but it never occurred to me that i should learn the same practices. Sort of a cultural thing maybe?

Alright, so from what I gather, it's not impossible, but it might be unlikely for either type of drow (and a few elves, even) given their dark histories. It makes sense to me. Thanks for the responses!

Xenos wrote:

I can't remember where i read it, but it suggested Drow don't Reverie, and likely Evil Elves for that matter, because of the anxiety and danger in their lives. In effect when a Drow tries such, they would relive, vividly, tortures, torments, abuse, anxiety, fear. There would be no restful state to be found, they would be stuck watching 4 hours of murder porn.

And there are those drow that reverie specifically for this reason. Which is how I treat it for the drow I play. He does it on purpose to desensitize himself to his dangerous life. And to keep his paranoia fueled. Ah, the joys of insanity!

Similar to what Maze said, I was always under the impression Lolthite drow preferred reverie. Firstly, to most of them a "dark" past is pretty typical so for the most part I don't see why a (Lolth) drow would have any issue reliving their past. Secondly (and I think most importantly) reverie would allow a drow to be aware of their surroundings even while resting.

Why risk a human sleep where you could be assassinated when you could just reverie?

Sourcewise: There doesn't appear to be a positive answer as Jud said. It seems there are no source books which say so one way or the other. Basically just up to the players if their drow(s) reverie or not and the personal reasons for that.

That's pretty much the "official answer", as far as I know: drow can reverie, some of them just choose not to.

My drow reveried and loved it. She was also insane.

Well, sure they can reverie, but would that count as rest? If all you have is anxiety and nightmares, do you reach a state of restfulness?

The argument is sound though, i mean the sociopath does not subscribe to societies normal understanding of things and would be no more swayed by one dream as another. But that gets us into the deeper drow lore i guess. I think it was only recently that a line was drawn that said some drow are good by default, while others are evil and corrupt in nature via their blood (some fiend thing). When drow are born i recall reading that they are reared under special care, now, this might be nobles or what not only, but it suggested they are basically taken away to be raised in bulk and brainwashed to conform to the Lolth enslaved societies ideals. From this i gathered that Drow are not born evil, the are made evil. Some of them this comes easily, and to others its harder.

So. Reverie, reliving memories, not a questionable dream state where we fill in the blanks as we wake and think upon it, but real memories, replaying real events like watching a movie. So, sure, some of you have insane or sociopathic drow, or are just so far numb they convince themselves they take pleasure in it. But does reverie take you where you want to go? Will you go to watch that wicked deed over and over again, or will you be taken back to a time before your faith was solid, to memories you might have repressed?

But i dunno, i have no means to give sources for my info as i've skimmed and read over so so many different books and material. It is obviously safe to say you can do whatever you want with your own char. It matters about as much as an argument on the lore of elven/drow poops, or lack of! Dun dun dun.

If your talking about Drow and Reverie there are a number of things you need to account for, foremost the mindset of Drow and the structure of Drow society.

First is that while they are surrounded by death and terrors they also surround themselves with sin and luxury. And if anything drives Drow more than Fear or Anger, or any base Emotion they are driven by greed and ambition. And while Drow view their own kind above all others rather openly, most also secretly view themselves as greater than their kin. This naturally leads them to be more likely to see their Reverie as a Time to reflect on past successes and failures and use it to drive their own ambition further.

Further you have from a young age a rather structured and guided upbringing, perfect times to shape your people. It is also (given descriptions of Drow upbringing from across the various novels) well within the realm of possibility that they purposefully use that time to create vivid points in their memories, ones that they will be drawn to in Reverie in order to cause even deeper forms of brainwashing.

There are lots of great ways that you can RP it and use it in RP especially just beyond them doing it or not.

Equal put it how I understand it. I've been using it as a good time to sit down and SEETHE AND BOIL ON INCOHERENT RAGE.

Perpetual anger reinforced through reliving past events she won't let go of. Perfectly healthy and I don't think anything bad will come of it.

Mercedes wrote:

Equal put it how I understand it. I've been using it as a good time to sit down and SEETHE AND BOIL ON INCOHERENT RAGE.

Perpetual anger reinforced through reliving past events she won't let go of. Perfectly healthy and I don't think anything bad will come of it.

But how does doing that for 4 or more hours leave one feeling rested and refreshed?

The body is at rest, the act of Reverie involves relaxing all of their muscles and is physically very restful.

I like some of the really old elf fluff since a few times they talk about how elves use their meditative trance as a way to review and keep organized hundreds of years of memories and keep from losing track of their of history and memories. (hardly a cannon source but an interesting view).

So unlike normal sleep where you would wake up unrested after tossing and turning all night do to night terrors or anxieties, you suggest that no matter what one experiences in Reverie, they are cool and relaxed? 4-8 hours of reliving being flayed by a demon in perfect detail, or worried you wont get up on time for your first day of work tomorrow, but you are free as bird?

Eh, without more detail on how it works or does not work i guess we are just a bunch of nerds arguing in circles.

Perhaps it's about as restful as a sleep with nightmares or discomforts.

It's better than no sleep at all.

Reverie, put simply, is restful meditation that is more efficient at restoring energy through rest than normal sleep is.

In real life, there are plenty of people that accomplish a restful mindset that is not sleep (you have to be unconscious to be asleep) that works better (meaning one achieves a more restful state of mind for a longer period of time and gains more rest from it) than sleep.

Having said that, Reverie would be seen by Drow as a more efficient way to rest than just plain ole sleep. Even if a Drow cannot reverie, they may claim that they can, in order to say something like, "Oh, I'm so in control of my mind, I can Reverie. Thus I am qualified to be a part of the master race (Drow)."

As far as the whole dealing with nightmares thing goes: part of all meditation techniques, no matter what discipline, is to associate experiences with some sort of "positive" feeling. The word "Positive" is almost completely subjective, depending on the mindset, and culture, of those seeking positivity. In Drow culture, thinking about "nightmarish" things may be completely positive. Also, there is also the possibility that unsettling experiences can be associated with "positive" feelings through meditation.

In short, Reverie can, and probably should, be a claimed habit by all noble Drow. A noble Drow that "sleeps," while they are not a heretic, are considered to be taking part in a "lower level" of rest than Reverie, and thus less desirable than a Drow that Reveries regularly. Remember: Elitism is the norm among Drow nobles. Enjoy.

joe15552 wrote:

Reverie, put simply, is restful meditation that is more efficient at restoring energy through rest than normal sleep is.

In real life, there are plenty of people that accomplish a restful mindset that is not sleep (you have to be unconscious to be asleep) that works better (meaning one achieves a more restful state of mind for a longer period of time and gains more rest from it) than sleep.

Having said that, Reverie would be seen by Drow as a more efficient way to rest than just plain ole sleep. Even if a Drow cannot reverie, they may claim that they can, in order to say something like, "Oh, I'm so in control of my mind, I can Reverie. Thus I am qualified to be a part of the master race (Drow)."

As far as the whole dealing with nightmares thing goes: part of all meditation techniques, no matter what discipline, is to associate experiences with some sort of "positive" feeling. The word "Positive" is almost completely subjective, depending on the mindset, and culture, of those seeking positivity. In Drow culture, thinking about "nightmarish" things may be completely positive. Also, there is also the possibility that unsettling experiences can be associated with "positive" feelings through meditation.

In short, Reverie can, and probably should, be a claimed habit by all noble Drow. A noble Drow that "sleeps," while they are not a heretic, are considered to be taking part in a "lower level" of rest than Reverie, and thus less desirable than a Drow that Reveries regularly. Remember: Elitism is the norm among Drow nobles. Enjoy.

I'm not sure I agree with any of that. I'm of the mind with what Jud wrote up above. Also Reverie is one of those elven gifts. Not any one can just do it. It's part of being connected to the Weave so intrinsically. I suppose drow can be taught to do it. Though I doubt it's part of any training.

Quote:

We Elves have certain abilities that the other
‘lesser’ races simply do not possess. N’Tel’Quessir
often have to resort to magic to do the things that come
to us Elves naturally. The Elves do not gloat, but rather,
we feel sympathy for those creatures not blessed with
our gifts. Among the more important abilities the Fair
Folk are born with are Communion, Elvensight,
Manifestation, the Reverie, the Elven Bond, and a
natural hardiness that allows for adapting to extreme
climatic conditions and resistance to diseases.

To offer a quote from pretty good source I like to use when I need some elf rp direction. It's not primary source but someone's report on collection of sources through out forgotten relams when concerning elves. You can refrence some of the bibliography and trace back to primary source.

http://lord-karsus.deviantart.com/art/E ... -143874818

Does a drow have these gifts too? Likely, though are they training comminion, and reverie, and soul bonds? ... eh unlikely imo.

There's a few topics about this already, though they're in Winya's forums. The IC one and the OOC discussion type one that includes tidbits about Drow.

Just for reference's sake:

Mahtan Tasadur wrote:

*A text found on the orderly shelves of the library of Winya Ravanna, it is not quite finished. It appears to be more of a sample of perhaps greater work. The piece however is available for the people to view as they please.*

Opening Pages

I am a simple creature, I live, breathe, and consume as all life needs. I prefer the simpler life of natures beauty, shrouded in its vibrant embrace. I live a religious and spiritual life, though I am no priest or holy warrior. I am but a survivalist, using all that is gifted to me by our Seldarine. Some may know me as a former councilor, a brother, a friend... My name is Azaquis Eilefel. I wish to offer insight and direction in a skill that all of the People and Feykind possess. I speak of the Reverie.

Few know the entirety of this ability. The term is used loosely as "Elven Sleeping", when it is much more. I hope this text will inform young minds of all of the People, including our half-human's. All carrying the blood of the People should know what the True Reverie is.

The Reverie: Facts and Differences From Sleep

Living with no needs, actions without consequence, the line between reality and thought... The Reverie is a state of being, both body and mind. It is the conscious projection into a dream-state in which you control every detail of. Through this state we see what we wish to live, our minds are sent to what we decide is ideal, while our bodies remain behind to be refreshed and recovered without the distractions and troubles of life. This method of rest and recovery is far more advanced than sleep, and thus to receiving the same benefits of a full nights rest in less time.

Typical sleep for the People is the same as other humanoid races. Only our slumber is without dreams. Dreams do not come to the People. Only the devote of Sehanine Moonbow ever receive the rare dream in their normal slumber. These dreams are actually visions, omens, or glimpses of the past or future from our Goddess. Ones that the clergy of Sehanine Moonbow decipher and make sense of.

If you are one reading this hearing that dreams are omens and signs from the Goddess you are not devote too and are troubled, worry not for there is a likely explanation. It is most likely you are beginning to slip into a pseudo-reverie state. A state that may happen nearing awakening. The mind is two pieces, the Conscious and the Unconscious. All supernatural, extraordinary, and magic ability is from the unconscious mind. However, we can not freely access this part of the mind through will power only. Some have this access naturally, some do not, and never will. As the People, we all have the potential to take this skill from the unconscious mind. As you sleep, the unconscious mind and conscious mind become closer, secrets and information may pass at this time. If you awaken shocked suddenly at the images of a dream for the first time, you were in reality awakening from other reasons already. However your body and mind were awakening while still having connection to your unconscious mind.
This event is the first bridge to achieving Reverie. I will attempt to describe the event the best I can.

You are asleep, all is quite, you are relaxed and all is black as if looking to a nights sky before the stars blanket it.
Suddenly, you see the stars, the moon, the trees and grass in the field you are in, you consciously realize you are sleeping.
You feel your body laying, you curl your fingers and wiggle your toes and they respond as if you are awake.
You hold onto this feeling, focusing on this image of the stars, it mixing with the sounds of the area around you, you know where you truly are, yet your mind is showing your eyes otherwise.
You are in the early phase of Reverie, you are between sleep and awake, reality and thought, conscious and unconscious minds acting together.
Your eyes open seeing nothing that you just visualized was ever there, but you recall it all in perfect detail that it very well could have been.

In this description the body and mind awake before the minds separate, thus giving a surreal feeling in this state of treading the middle grounds of Sleep and Awake. The feeling is anything from lightheadedness to weightlessness. Mentally some may experience curiously or fear of this event mistaking it for something else. Hopefully reading this text will aid in those fears and satisfy the curiosity. Reverie is a gift to us from the Seldarine, there is nothing to fear from these teaching passed onto us by our Gods. There is always the options of a Guided Reverie if one is unable to relax themselves into the state required to maintain the Reverie.

The Reverie: Entering Reverie and Words of Caution

Mastery of thoughts and mind to paint your own reality, control your dream-state and reflect on all you learned and what your future holds. Reverie is a powerful gift and takes time to master fully, though creating your own reality where you may even develop skills of the mind in your Reverie, physical skills may be tested, however do not be surprised when your true body is not able to perform as you may imagine it.

Entering Reverie requires only a safe location, free of threats to the body and mind, a quite place free from distraction is ideal. Reverie may be performed in a sitting or laying position. The body must relax, breath light and deep to fuel the mind. The mind must be clear, to reach the bridges created to the unconscious mind, the mind must be in a state of not thinking, an absence of thought for the time it takes to achieve reverie. This time may vary based on the individuals skill and familiarity to reverie, it may be seconds or several minutes in early and extreme cases. Once achieved, the conscious mind becomes away of the unconscious mind and lets it take you deep into your controlled dream-state while it separately remains with the body, aware of its surroundings and condition. During Reverie you are aware of both realities simultaneously, you may ignore one or the other as fit or maintain both. Thus waking abruptly from bears no ill effects aside from perhaps irritation of being interrupted, as would anyone who was woken up before planned.

I urge everyone reading to not overlook these words of caution. Reverie is a powerful gift and as such should not be abused. It is possible to be injured and lost within reverie if one is not careful. Do to the connection between the mind and body, these controlled dreams will indeed transfer feel and touch, and thus pain. If your reveries include such things that may cause injury for whatever reason you will it to be so, the body will feel such things as the mind experiences it. Do be careful and remain in control of your reverie.

On the topic of remaining in control, I am aware of the desire to create your own perfect dream-state to always live in that is more appealing and better than true life once your skill is grand enough to perform such. I highly advise against such things, life is to be treasured, its challenges and surprises only there to remind you that you still are alive and appreciate the good things that are just and always there. Not only is creating such dream-state not living, it is dangerous. While the mind stays in Reverie, the body hungers, grows weak and old, and slowly dies. Thoughts and morality is so absorbed into the unconscious mind that its possible to forget about the needs of the other. At this point awaking abruptly is dangerous and may be harmful to the elves mind and body which is already weakened from neglect.
This is especially dangerous to the Fey, many fey create such realities for themselves and they require nothing to survive but being in their magic groves. They may remain in their dream-states forever, detached from all sense of reality beyond their made up worlds. I urge everyone to use this ability responsibly as it was intended to be used.

*The book seems to end here, rather abrupt and on a rather darker side than the rest of the material. Perhaps the end of the sample provided, or it was ended on a rather serious note so it is not lost in the middle of things. Time shall tell.*

Elves of Faerun is a Fantastic source and while not a primary source itself every part of it is directly taken from primary sources (and in many cases basically just rephrased to avoid issues with WoTC) the reason it gives so much more than you can find normally is in large part due to them having used all of the dragon magazine references as well which was a cannon source but far rarely referenced due to the nature of it being across a large number of magazines and so harder to reference between players.

Reverie and the Drow

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