AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I said certain mechanically advantageous cheese moves, such as the PM/RDD build that everyone loves to use (which doesn't work because of the way we've altered the dragon disciple class). Clearly we didn't make it so that everyone is crammed down into a middle ground of lackluster mechanics by weeding out every single possible 'cheese' build. Otherwise this wouldn't be a discussion, and you would be rather pleased with us.

But either way, great! Let's move on to another suggestion :mrgreen:

I would change the people who blame players that can build and have a strong knowledge of the games mechanics for either their build or lack of aptitude for the game. Your build is a choice, stop blaming others because you chose something weaker. You aren't a better role player for not taking tumble or something.

Last edited by VitalTouch on Tue, Jan 26 2016, 12:38 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Hi Sam how are you doing long time no see etc

I'm afraid I must take issue with you on the following.

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:

It's using what you're given to make something efficient in terms of PvE or PvP, should that be your main concern. Everyone has their own play style.

It's the underlined part of the quoted text I have a specific problem with, Amia is a RP server, therefore the server "style" is roleplay primarily so allowing and encouraging and even advising (via the "fish" threads) players to focus on OOC min/maxing, abusing mechanical advantage with builds absent any roleplay/in-character justifcation for such builds is massive mistake.

The focus should be on builds that go hand in hand with the role play, that make sense with how the individual in front of the character sheet lives in the living breathing world of Amia.

Powerbuilding puts the individual person that is the character behind as the avatar is merely an extention of the players desire to win pvp via any OOC means required, but will often be coupled with absurd rp, or token hostile rp to initiate the pvp and cover their back from the rules.

But I fully understand that on Amia the horse has well and truly bolted, and that the DMs are not going to try to shut the gate because they tore it off its hinges several years ago and have since left newer DMs to deal with it, and as they are riding the horse....well who cares.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I would change the people who blame players that can build and have a strong knowledge of the games mechanics for either their build or lack of aptitude for the game. Your build is a choice, stop blaming others because you chose something weaker. You aren't a better role player for not taking tumble or something.

Nice bit of ad hominem, elitism there. You just don't see the point do you, OOC "knowledge" on how to abuse NWN mechanics has no place on a RP server. And the more you attack those pointing out this principle which many other RP servers have had since their inception well, it just sort of proves the point really.

But don't worry Amia allows you your OOC toys with winz the pvp, so why are you crying about others crying about it, you are the winning team..

Consult my above post.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Consult my above post.

I have and have edited my post with a suitable retort.

Last edited by Guardian on Tue, Jan 26 2016, 12:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I would change the people who blame players that can build and have a strong knowledge of the games mechanics for either their build or lack of aptitude for the game. Your build is a choice, stop blaming others because you chose something weaker. You aren't a better role player for not taking tumble or something.

And vice versa. You aren't better role player if you can build a cheese.

Bob, you know I love you, but this is just wrong. There's a lot of people complaining about it, which means it's not an issue of an individual. Powergaming was, is and will always be an issue on RP servers.

I personally don't care that much, I did build a cheese or two in my time, but if I had to choose, I'd side with the "anti-builders" for various already mentioned reasons.

This is an extremely dangerous over generalization, and in general, a very poor definition a powerbuild if I've seen one. While it's true some people like this do exist, not everyone min-maxes for the same reasons, and some actually justify it by roleplaying the character appropriately. I think we should be extremely careful not to apply arbitrary definitions to groups of people we do not necessarily agree with.

That said, my point still stands, this isn't a thread about bashing players with play styles you dislike.

ZoltanTheRed wrote:

That said, my point still stands, this isn't a thread about bashing players with play styles you dislike.

Well they can bash IC with OOC power builds and thats ok, but if I talk about it OOC on an OOC forum then the DMs wade in to defend their "style"

This topic was about what would you do to change Amia, and people want to discuss those ideas. Where is the bad here?

P.S. I would think it obvious that players whose character builds reflect the RP are exactly what I have been wanting, so yeah if someone has a strong build that is organic to the RP well that fits right?

However if "Bob the Baker" is level 1 on Monday and by Wednesday is a wall jumping ninja, that might take some explaining.

On Amia that explaining is "its my style and I haz knowledge of the mechanics that you don't so you dumb."

The bad is that you're using it as a platform to spit bile at an entire group of players. You are being rude toward these players by invalidating their character based upon their build/build strength. That's what's bad about it.

ZoltanTheRed wrote:

The bad is that you're using it as a platform to spit bile at an entire group of players. You are being rude toward these players by invalidating their character based upon their build/build strength. That's what's bad about it.

Lol "bile"

No.

I'm making points that seem to resonate with others about a "style" of playing Neverwinter Nights that I feel should not be condoned on this roleplay server.

Where have I been "rude" and which specific players have I been rude to?

I'm "invalidating" to use your phrase the mindset and the way some characters have been built, that's pretty different from what you say I'm doing...by like 60000 miles.

Attack the arguments, not the player right? Well I call hypocrite.

"Where have I been "rude" and which specific players have I been rude to?" If you fail to see the folly of this behavior, and you don't see which players you're offending, then two things...Why are you up in arms about "powerbuilds," such as they were, and do you really think your behavior is acceptable? I've seen some pretty backhanded remarks from you and a few others in this thread and for that I am less than impressed.

My point still stands: Keep the discussion of the topic genuine and not about tossing flak at people who you do not agree with. I won't say this again. If you want to reply to this, send me a PM at least. I'm perfectly willing to discuss this with you(or anyone, really, mind a lot of it is really just based on my own views and not the DM team's), but I just don't want this thread to be polluted with more posts like.. well, this one.

Better yet, could we split this to a new topic? *nudges Letum lovingly*

My own approach was to accept the premise that on a collaborative storytelling server set in the Forgotten Realms, it makes absolute sense for characters to have different strengths and weaknesses.

There are characters who are incredibly charismatic and manage to build up factions of loyal followers. There are characters who excel at scheming, and who have managed to pull of some incredible plots and manipulate others to do their bidding unknowingly. Others have helped others as voices of wisdom. There are characters who are fantastically gifted criminals or investigators. The skill of a player to pull that off is always a part of it, and just something I feel is good to accept and enjoy to see. And the same then (in my opinion) should be true for combat oriented builds. Combat is just another facet, and I am completely fine if my opponents are better at it that me. Just like I am fine if another character excels as a faction leader or a bard who can come up with fantastic stories and songs. It does not break my immersion into the world.

Aside from Robert who was combat focused (aside his 30ranks in ride), almost all my other characters did not have combat listed as the build priority. My lothite priestess had divination spell focuses and used a whip that was a joke, and my thief was completely utility focused. It did not bother me, because just like there are NPCs more powerful in combat, it makes sense if their are PCs who are. It does not diminish my enjoyment.

The other aspect that was important for me was to try not to judgmental or dismissive of the quality of rp of others in general. For me, that also meant that if someone made a wacky or cheesy combat build it was not my place to nitpick it, correct it or speak ill of it to others. The DMs can do that if they feel it is necessary. My early characters were horrible when I started on this server. My rp was not much better. Others were encouraging by example and by being nice to me, and helping me along.

Thought that was the best attitude to adopt then when I got a little better at it myself.

That being said, from a design perspective working on balancing is of course important. This all is really more focused on what I felt helped make the server more enjoyable for me as a player.

Well said, Pony!

One of my favorite topics to this day was the "How flawed is the character above" things. I thought it was a neat exercise in not hashing out and recognizing character's for their weaknesses, not just their strengths.

I think if I'm being fair, I would have to say that what irks me the most isn't powerbuilding persay (Because what exactly is powerbuilding?); but instead, God-gaming. And I think that's ultimately the underlying frustration that's being voiced here. The fact of the matter is that anyone can god-game, whether it's a build that emphasizes non-combat or combat. The problem is that when it comes to players, it's extremely easy to develop status based on combat. If I wanted to give a god-gaming PC a reality check, for example, and we ended up fighting-- if the person was also well-built it would really feel like this is just another facet of his god-gaming.

But the truth is that anyone can god-game. And it's also, thankfully, rare. Powerbuilding doesn't necessarily induce god-gaming (Many of my characters who are powerfully built possess plenty of compelling weaknesses and character trait flaws), so I think we should try to look at the individual player who's causing trouble rather than decry its correlation, not causation.

Pony wrote:

The other aspect that was important for me was to try not to judgmental or dismissive of the quality of rp of others in general. For me, that also meant that if someone made a wacky or cheesy combat build it was not my place to nitpick it, correct it or speak ill of it to others. The DMs can do that if they feel it is necessary. My early characters were horrible when I started on this server. My rp was not much better. Others were encouraging by example and by being nice to me, and helping me along.

Just to pluck a little quote here, this is something I feel more and more strongly about the longer I play this game. We've all been new at some point, we've all made some pretty silly builds/characters. The longer I play, the more I find myself just not all that concerned with whether or not someone else's roleplay is "right." I'm of course speaking of superficial things and not grossly wrong errors, like a CE gold dragon disciple. Even then however, we have a DM team to handle those things, and it's not something I personally need to get upset about. The best thing we can do as players is to encourage others to grow in their roleplay abilities and help them hone their skills by interaction and solid example, not being judgmental, rude, or dismissive. New players are looking at our roleplay, but they are also looking at the way our community interacts as players. Don't let them leave with a bad taste in their mouth.

Since it may have been lost in the fog of war from earlier I'd like to quote myself.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I'd very much like to see more new staff who's sole job is to be client side. We have tons of dms moderating and developing and administrating, but I'd like to see more people client side in game. We have a large population in amia, and I don't think the client number of staff in game can handle the load.

I'd also like to encourage that staff be at least decent at pvp, so that DM events aren't just a walk in the park. A plot villian ought to be a scary fight. But everything comes with practice, so that's not to crazy important.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I'd very much like to see more new staff who's sole job is to be client side. We have tons of dms moderating and developing and administrating, but I'd like to see more people client side in game.

Yeah, I miss little one-off encounters where DM's just make an NPC, monster, etc, come alive. This alone can change Amia.

Also... this needs to be updated, badly: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=55945
Many on that list aren't DM's anymore.

VitalTouch seem to completely miss my points + laugh at me being considerate about my possible mistakes that might confuse readers. It might be just that we are sort of uncopatible, but I won't debate with such a person.

Obsidian: you have good points. But I dont think that RP and building is contradictory. Basically if you want to play specific RP you build for it - be it diplomatic bard, pacifist priest, orc killing barbarian, or powerful mage. You cant really have someone to serve as soldier and be totally helpless.

I think that Amia aims in the right direction when they openly allow people to ask about builds and even players who dont know how will get their hands on good builds. Some powerbuilders will always be present, unless you make the game payed and with professional support and everything to figure and kicked them out, but this way there should not be as much difference. I used to play on server where system-wise was 90% totally in the dark and basically anyone who at least spent half an hour on idea how to level character to have at least some coherent idea could be called builder :lol:

. Of course if someone totally hates and avoids any kind of building... :roll:

what to say.

Of course if we go by VitalTouch's definiton of powerbuilding, Amia stuff needs to hire lot of shrinks and test out each player and their intetions behind their characters rather than restrict system.

Again, building is okay. I have no problems with it. I dislike the way, however, some mechanics works as it is now. For starters I'd love to see this -

Guardian wrote:

Tie skill points distribution to class level, not character level.

Aka - no more skill dumping.

At least this. Skill dumping is one of the biggest flaw there is. And this simple change would make powerbuilding at least a bit more harder.

Honestly, I came to play NWN. The second amia stopped being NWN I doubt my interest would hold.

I tend to get salty about the more ridiculous powerbuilds, especially the ones my own builds are literally incapable of even damaging, but even so I'd rather have a hundred more of those than I would have people who insult and deride and want to ban other players for having badwrongfun.

Honestly, I think that skill dumping has helped to even the field, rather than throw anyone into imbalance.

The biggest impact, I would say, is UMD. Skill dumping UMD allows for numerous fighter-type builds to be able to use magical items that can help put them on a similar tier as mages. UMD helps, but only marginally helps already powerful arcane and casting classes.

Skill dumping allows everyone to have similar sets of skills. Discipline, Tumble, Use Magic Device, Spot, etc. But everyone having similar distributions in skills doesn't just elevate the entire distribution of classes equally. The classes that get the most use of it are things that normally wouldn't be able to have any sort of equivalent-- Paladins, Fighters, Barbarians.

Removing skill dumping and limiting it to class level only doesn't make it harder to powerbuild, it just really works to separate characters into distinct roles, characters who can only do one set of things. And while that may sound appealing at first, what it really means is balance flies out of the window in favor of magical classes.

The 'Higher' magic level a server has, the more balanced its mages are. Think about how it might feel as a fighter if you didn't have the ability to gear effectively, use pocket magic to protect yourself, drink high level potions such as mindblanks, haste, invisibility, see invisibility, etc, etc. Amia has a relatively higher level of magic than most servers by allowing strong, readily available potions and items. By disallowing skill dumping, you remove the ability to access many* of these balancing objects for numerous characters that need them.

*(Obviously not potions, but many others!)

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Honestly, I came to play NWN. The second amia stopped being NWN I doubt my interest would hold.

My interest is fading from the moment I can't play:

Caster cleric/1 monk
Sorcerer/1 paladin
Druid/shifter/1 monk
And many more...

Get it?

But those builds suck

I think the point was that Nwn on Amia is already heavily modified for balancing purposes. It's nothing like vanilla Nwn anymore, so I don't really get the argument.

skill dumps as hackums iterated helps bad builds more than it helps good builds.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but removing it would also require a rebalancing of just about every melee mob near the higher end of the game, because they were made with such things in mind. When people are baying for dumping to be changed, I don't know of they're looking far enough ahead to see that. We can't even get around to changing the few creatures we need to now. Living in that limbo is probably not gonna help anyone's enjoyment at this point.

Guardian wrote:

I think the point was that Nwn on Amia is already heavily modified for balancing purposes. It's nothing like vanilla Nwn anymore, so I don't really get the argument.

You can innovate and balance without ruining the game. Amia has the best balancing job I've ever seen side from shifters (which are s mistake so let's bidder disk of them). At it's core you should be able to make something mechanically strong by knowing how the game works. If you remove anything strong from the game you're left with a different game. Amia is as far as can be gotten and still be nwn and level 30. It's in a very set spot in terms of having things that are easy to play, things that are good only if you're good at the game, and class choices that probably are just mediocre if you use them as opposed to the alternatives that you have to really get creative to produce.

Again, don't count shifters when I say this because shifters are broken.

Last edited by TheCortroy on Wed, Jan 27 2016, 4:33 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Keeping on topic - I'd change the influx of "nobility" that seems to have flooded the server. Last time I checked it used to be a rare thing to be considered royalty/noble.

edit: I'm not saying players haven't earned their title through outstanding dedication or roleplay, it's just that recently it has became slightly disproportionate.

That's a pretty good point, heh. It's weird when you think about it!

Personally I prefer nobles that have earned the titles IG, that shows some really great RP and such when you rise to those lofty ranks rather than starting from the get-go that way. Just my opinion

TheCortroy wrote:

Keeping on topic - I'd change the horrible influx of "nobility" that seems to have flooded the server. Last time I checked it used to be a rare thing to be considered royalty/noble.

edit: I'm not saying players haven't earned their title through outstanding dedication or roleplay, it's just that recently it has became slightly disproportionate.

I noticed this too but when I commented on it I got blown up in game about how all noble titles were earned and you can't just make a noble.

I've noticed more and more nobles too, but I'm not necessarily sure if we could call it disproportionate yet. When you think about what sort of people in FR can afford the equipment, training, and mobility to become adventurers, upper class has a leg up on it. And I'm sure if we had a time machine and could go back, we'd see there were probably a lot of people that qualified for "noble" too in Amia's previous years, we just didn't require a request for them then if they weren't gonna claim any IC backing on it. Now being a noble goes hand in hand with that backing.

I was avoiding this thread, 1) because it kinda looked like carping from a distance, I'll fully admit and 2) because I'd probably end up posting a laundry list anyway. But really, I'd bring back Custom Scripting too, but with the caveat of 1 request per player per 4-6 months. Custom scripting was one of the reasons I chose Amia in the first place over others, and it still bums me out knowing that other new players aren't getting to experience it. Of course from the other side, I completely understand how burnt out our devs are right now as it is. I guess I'd do a bit more allocation, too. These DMs focus on administration, these focus on ingame(but both can switch around, whatever), these devs keep this patchwork of a ship floating, you one or two devs hack through the mountain of "fun stuff." But it's always difficult suggesting what people should do with time they're volunteering anyway. Hopefully, there'll a balance between what everyone wants to do for the server and what the server needs people to do, eventually.

Dark Immolation wrote:

I've noticed more and more nobles too, but I'm not necessarily sure if we could call it disproportionate yet. When you think about what sort of people in FR can afford the equipment, training, and mobility to become adventurers, upper class has a leg up on it. And I'm sure if we had a time machine and could go back, we'd see there were probably a lot of people that qualified for "noble" too in Amia's previous years, we just didn't require a request for them then if they weren't gonna claim any IC backing on it. Now being a noble goes hand in hand with that backing.

I was avoiding this thread, 1) because it kinda looked like carping from a distance, I'll fully admit and 2) because I'd probably end up posting a laundry list anyway. But really, I'd bring back Custom Scripting too, but with the caveat of 1 request per player per 4-6 months. Custom scripting was one of the reasons I chose Amia in the first place over others, and it still bums me out knowing that other new players aren't getting to experience it. Of course from the other side, I completely understand how burnt out our devs are right now as it is. I guess I'd do a bit more allocation, too. These DMs focus on administration, these focus on ingame(but both can switch around, whatever), these devs keep this patchwork of a ship floating, you one or two devs hack through the mountain of "fun stuff." But it's always difficult suggesting what people should do with time they're volunteering anyway. Hopefully, there'll a balance between what everyone wants to do for the server and what the server needs people to do, eventually.

I'd like to chime in here and say that the DM staff and dev staff is doing a fantastic job. Being new to NWN it's really neat to see some players talking about changing the world, then suddenly the next time I visit that area shit's actually different. It's real fuckin neato and I love it.

Dark Immolation wrote:

I've noticed more and more nobles too, but I'm not necessarily sure if we could call it disproportionate yet. When you think about what sort of people in FR can afford the equipment, training, and mobility to become adventurers, upper class has a leg up on it.

That's the thing though, most of those people would have an advantage in that regard yes. But in generic FR most nobility aren't put in that adventuring position where they have -freedom- to do what they want. Most of them are put into arranged marriages to other royalty in order to increase that specific houses power. If they aren't doing that then their sitting idly by waiting for mom/dad to croak so they can take up that mantle and continue the legacy. If they have multiple children then it's a combination of the two even. The only situation I can comprehend is to extend the family's influences to foreign places by trying to establish a colony or refuge. Or if you ran away from home, hence your blood still means something but you wouldn't be able to put that "Lord or Lady" title in front of your name anymore because at that point your probably disavowed.

If your family's just wealthy with no backing then sure - I can easily see that scenario. The point of playing a noble though is that your blood means something.

Lot of nobles, yep. That's why I rarely have my noble mention his, but that's ICly due it it not counting for shit since he's in foreign land.

I'm all for people playing what the hell they wanna play though as long as it remains in lore.

Touching on the power build topic, I love my stronger builds. Call me an ass hole or think what you like, but if you RP the character the build represents, then so what? There's always going to be a way to min max, there's always going to be someone willing to do it. My only grief on the topic is when someone RPs something completely opposite to their build, which is incredibly rare. Then there's the rare event that meaningful PvP happens on Amia.

Who gives a shit if you get rekt by a powerbuild if you're just going to respawn and ignore it with in the hour?
Onto what I'd change!

More permadeaths. They don't happen. They need to. I'm sick of seeing the same outlived characters on the server that have seen the end of the world repeatedly. How is that any fun to play?

Then there's characters taking more impact on their losses. Not just regenning shit back. To fix these, I say don't give the victim all of the power in what happens. It's like some characters are freaking immortal on this island. I could compile an A4 list of these characters off of the top of my head.

Excuse me if this comes across as agressive, but it's just my two cents, and a huge peeve of mine.

Yeah that's the way I look at it. As long as plots/stories are advanced depending on who won some pvp, there's really no reason to have an actually bad character because it's going to bite you in the ass if you ever find yourself in that situation. You don't have to be fuckin gonzo or razor edge optimized or follow whatever you think is the 'meta,' but you should at least know what you're doing.

As for the rezzing, it's better then perma-death being 'forced' on a person. Are people that start shit, get hit, and pop up again hours later annoying? Yes. But it's certainly better than the alternative.

Yeah I'd probably definitely change a perma or two.

I'd really like to see language widgets.

I'd really like to see language widgets.

I know, I know... there's so many ways to learn languages... still... everyone knows every language it seems like, and... well... yeah, widgets would help.

Well, average person knowing like 15+ languages (including draconic, celestial...) is a thing that bugs me a lot to be honest.

More clothing options ... MOOOOOOOOOAR.

Bertnard wrote:

Well, average person knowing like 15+ languages (including draconic, celestial...) is a thing that bugs me a lot to be honest.

That's kind of exactly my point. It enforces # of languages based on intelligence.

edit: it also prevents metagaming, both intentional and unintentional. Emphasis on the unintentional.

Lilja_91 wrote:

More clothing options ... MOOOOOOOOOAR.

OH please goodness yes. I'm happy with what we have, but I'd like more!

Barracuda wrote:

Lilja_91 wrote:

More clothing options ... MOOOOOOOOOAR.

OH please goodness yes. I'm happy with what we have, but I'd like more!

Specifically, there's a severe lack of Cloth (AC: 0) torso models for Females.
And for some reason, a lot of the robe options aren't available, even though they should be.

A language widget would be quite nice!

If we ever have our language system back where your intelligence modifier = language points, it would be nice if there was a limit on the number of languages you know (about 4 or 5) and requests would have to be made if you want to learn more. I just don't think the intelligence modifier is the only factor that constitutes to how others might know various languages. Also languages that would rarely be taught to outsiders of a race or group (e.g. Luiric to non-Hins and thieves cant) should cost a lot of points.

Lilja_91 wrote:

Barracuda wrote:

Lilja_91 wrote:

More clothing options ... MOOOOOOOOOAR.

OH please goodness yes. I'm happy with what we have, but I'd like more!

Specifically, there's a severe lack of Cloth (AC: 0) torso models for Females.
And for some reason, a lot of the robe options aren't available, even though they should be.

As for clothing options... I already made a little rant about that one so you could guess my stance!

My dream version of FR has Common being nonexistent and all characters receiving spoken fluency in a number of languages as determined by region or upbringing, bonus languages for intelligence only applying to written language comprehension (none of this book-learning fluent Loross), any additional languages through a rigorous request-process. Cross-cultural communication would be an actual nightmare and diplomacy would be limited to cleric spells or the international establishment of Elven for the sole purpose of diplomacy (which wouldn't be fool-proof).

That would actually be somewhat reasonably approaching accurate. But hey, since the cop-out "Int mod at level 1" system is "in the rulebook", sure, however you kids like it. Although really as long as Common exists, 80% of other languages are used just to hold secret conversations (just get a room), 5% for cultural significance and the remainder for cases of DM events where knowing the language has bearing on the plot.

Bertnard wrote:

Well, average person knowing like 15+ languages (including draconic, celestial...) is a thing that bugs me a lot to be honest.

That's kind of exactly my point. It enforces # of languages based on intelligence.

edit: it also prevents metagaming, both intentional and unintentional. Emphasis on the unintentional.

+1 For this to both of you.

This was always pain in the ass for me, honestly, be it when I played elf, dwarf or dragon disciple, always there was someone who knew how to reply.

When you are a wizard with 30 base int (10 mod) so please, speak even in ancient dwarven dialect when you are elf, I don't care. But seeing a paladin, who knows about 6-7 different types of language, that's really awful.

I was so happy, when I came with my elf to Bendirs and when I did not answer to anything, only ONE person tried to speak with me in Elven (and even after that, he misspeled, made typos, showing that his char. does not know much about that language)... But yeah, there wasn't a group of common try-hards - still it was nice.

So yeah, I am for a basic rule.

Human - Common + 1 per int mod
Elf - Common, Elven +1 per int mod
etc.

And ofcourse, do not forget the classes like druid, with their types of communication.

One thing I do for validity and just to make myself feel better probably is I put in my character's Bio what languages they know. I keep it honest, they only know what they should know or through rp learned. Also, can't get called for "knowing everything" if I have it in my bio before the conversation started. Just a simple way to keep things honest, though of course, someone will always metagame and use a language not on my list... but, meh...

sera wrote:

One thing I do for validity and just to make myself feel better probably is I put in my character's Bio what languages they know. I keep it honest, they only know what they should know or through rp learned. Also, can't get called for "knowing everything" if I have it in my bio before the conversation started. Just a simple way to keep things honest, though of course, someone will always metagame and use a language not on my list... but, meh...

Yeah. I picked underdark languages for my kobold, and spent two ig weeks looking for an elf pc willing to teach elven, eventually found some, did some fun language learning RP over a few days, and I now 'speak' it, albeit it very poorly. I'm looking for a dwarf to teach dwarven as well. But I mean, languages are fun for me. My gnoll simulates translating gnollish to common by acting like gnollish uses the irl ASL word order.

But I think languages are fun so who knows.

Depending on how they're done, the widgets would allow you to learn languages still, but, would eliminate the "I learned fluent elven in two days" and "I know every language... I've been around"...

If I could change Amia I'd...

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