AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hey guys, am I on the right track here....or am I wasting my time with this build. I'd like it to be powerful enough to keep up in pvp and high lvl dungeons...if possible. I know half-orcs suck but I love them too much.

Race: Half-orc

Abilities
20- Str
8 - Dex
8 - Con
10 - Int
16 - Wis
6 - Cha

Skills:
Straight Con and Spellcraft

All Cleric
1. Powerattack
2.
3. Weapon Focus Trident
4. Str
5.
6.Cleave
7.
8. Str
9. Great cleave
10.
11.
12. Str Improve Critical Trident
13.
14.
15. Extend Spell
16. Str
17.
18. Blind Fight
19.
20. Str
21. Overwhelming Crit Spear
22.
23. Greeater Wisdom
24. Wis --- Devestating Crit Spear
25.
26. Great Wisdom II
27. Great Con
28. Con
29. Great Wisdom 3
30. Probably Greater Ruins or Hellball

Abilities
20- Str (18)
8 - Dex (12)
8 - Con (12)
10 - Int (10)
16 - Wis (16)
6 - Cha (6)
will these stats work?

I would be scared shitless without discipline. :-)

dvdb35 wrote:

Abilities
20- Str (18)
8 - Dex (12)
8 - Con (12)
10 - Int (10)
16 - Wis (16)
6 - Cha (6)
will these stats work?

I would need 25 str for dEV crit and 20 wis for epic spell.

Nalkanar wrote:

I would be scared shitless without discipline. :-)

I was told discipline was taken out of the server?

Oh gosh no, discipline is still here.

Getting to the 25/26 STr and 20 WIS is a tall order but you could manage it, I think. The problem is having the feats afterwards to actually take Dev and epic spells.

My suggestion: ditch going for Dev Crit, get your solid 20 WIS and go down to 16 (base) -> 18 (half orc) starting strength. This will free up a bunch of points for, say, CON, or INT which you will really want for either HP or skill points. Use your first 4 wis points to get to 20 WIS and put the rest into STR, ad take a great STR feat to cover your odd STR and even you out. This wil open up your feats and let you grab epic spells and such. Would recommend doing something like... 24 cleric/4 fighter/2 rogue, if you want to get weapon and epic weapon specialization, or 27 cleric/1 ranger/2 rogue if you wanted to have more casting feats available to you. You could also do something like 28 cleric/2 rogue if you wanted to stay as pure cleric as possible, but I definitely recommend donig a little bit of multiclassing unless you're really into the 30 cleric shindig, which hey, you might be, I can respect that. You're gonna be down 6 Ac from no Tumble though, which is a shame.

Only -3AC due to tumble crossclass ... but still a shame. ;) But I totally agree, the build as written above is too stretched out.

A half-orc cleric seems quite tough, actually, with very few synergies. Especially if even DevCrit is off the menu.

You could try to ignore the cleric and become a Champion of X? There was a thread about some barbaric orc thingies not too long ago: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=84210 (Yes, I've posted in there, but I suggest reading the other posts in detail because I tend to just ramble about ideas. ;) Maybe that could also work for your concept?

Regards
Ts

TormakSaber wrote:

Oh gosh no, discipline is still here.

Getting to the 25/26 STr and 20 WIS is a tall order but you could manage it, I think. The problem is having the feats afterwards to actually take Dev and epic spells.

My suggestion: ditch going for Dev Crit, get your solid 20 WIS and go down to 16 (base) -> 18 (half orc) starting strength. This will free up a bunch of points for, say, CON, or INT which you will really want for either HP or skill points. Use your first 4 wis points to get to 20 WIS and put the rest into STR, ad take a great STR feat to cover your odd STR and even you out. This wil open up your feats and let you grab epic spells and such. Would recommend doing something like... 24 cleric/4 fighter/2 rogue, if you want to get weapon and epic weapon specialization, or 27 cleric/1 ranger/2 rogue if you wanted to have more casting feats available to you. You could also do something like 28 cleric/2 rogue if you wanted to stay as pure cleric as possible, but I definitely recommend donig a little bit of multiclassing unless you're really into the 30 cleric shindig, which hey, you might be, I can respect that. You're gonna be down 6 Ac from no Tumble though, which is a shame.

I would love to multiclass fighter...however half-orcs are gimped and get barbarian only as a favored class. Which means I'd be at a huge penalty through my build. So the penalty would be extremely tough, and of course it would always be better on a human....which makes me sad lol.

Ts_ wrote:

Only -3AC due to tumble crossclass ... but still a shame.

But I totally agree, the build as written above is too stretched out.

A half-orc cleric seems quite tough, actually, with very few synergies. Especially if even DevCrit is off the menu.

You could try to ignore the cleric and become a Champion of X? There was a thread about some barbaric orc thingies not too long ago: viewtopic.php?f=143&t=84210 (Yes, I've posted in there, but I suggest reading the other posts in detail because I tend to just ramble about ideas.

Maybe that could also work for your concept?

Regards
Ts

As for this, yea half-orc in general is tough...building them anything but barbarian....is well pointless. Plus barb is arguably the worst class in the game lol.

I'm not sure if you checked Amia class changes, since barbarian is quite cool here

In case you missed it, here it is! viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934661#p934661

mourisson1 wrote:

I'm not sure if you checked Amia class changes, since barbarian is quite cool here

In case you missed it, here it is! viewtopic.php?f=20&p=934661#p934661

Yea the rage was changed a bit, but the real power comes from feats from fighter + cleric lvls, to make a effective and flowy build.

Barbarian doesn't give any good feats to help the build synergy, sadly enough.

Quote:

I would love to multiclass fighter...however half-orcs are gimped and get barbarian only as a favored class. Which means I'd be at a huge penalty through my build. So the penalty would be extremely tough, and of course it would always be better on a human....which makes me sad lol.

XP is pretty fast here, especially if you're used to playing on slow-leveling servers. It's nice enough I never bother taking the penalty into consideration when I build personally.

That said, I've built a similar character to this, just using arcane instead of divine and for the most part, I feel Dev Crit, while neat and all is just a toy on this server. As a cleric you should be able to pull enough AC and defense to not need the knockdown effect and anything you would need the KD effect for (ie, bosses) is going to be tough enough that you cannot count on Dev Crit at all anyways. It's a lot of feats and stat sacrifice for some minor nuisance effects, more or less. A party trick, but I'd not suggest shooting for it unless you've already gotten things like Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess and the like. Something tangible like Epic Weapon Specialization is less flashy, but more useful in the long run.

I'd suggest Mummy Dust (or Dragon Knight if you've Epic Conjuration Focus) over the blast spells, as the summons will end up being more useful and doing more in the end.

MightNMagic wrote:

Quote:

I would love to multiclass fighter...however half-orcs are gimped and get barbarian only as a favored class. Which means I'd be at a huge penalty through my build. So the penalty would be extremely tough, and of course it would always be better on a human....which makes me sad lol.

XP is pretty fast here, especially if you're used to playing on slow-leveling servers. It's nice enough I never bother taking the penalty into consideration when I build personally.

That said, I've built a similar character to this, just using arcane instead of divine and for the most part, I feel Dev Crit, while neat and all is just a toy on this server. As a cleric you should be able to pull enough AC and defense to not need the knockdown effect and anything you would need the KD effect for (ie, bosses) is going to be tough enough that you cannot count on Dev Crit at all anyways. It's a lot of feats and stat sacrifice for some minor nuisance effects, more or less. A party trick, but I'd not suggest shooting for it unless you've already gotten things like Epic Weapon Focus, Armor Skin, Epic Prowess and the like. Something tangible like Epic Weapon Specialization is less flashy, but more useful in the long run.

I'd suggest Mummy Dust (or Dragon Knight if you've Epic Conjuration Focus) over the blast spells, as the summons will end up being more useful and doing more in the end.

Hmm in that case, I may just take the penalty I guess. If it makes the build better in the long run. Sad, but worth it lol.

Say I went with Torma's Suggestion. "24 cleric/4 fighter/2 rogue". I would need to take 4 fighter and 2 rogue before lvl 20 right, for the best spread?

I'd think Rogue 1 on level 1 (a ton of extra skill points), then a total of Cleric 16/F3/R1 in preepic.

Take Fighter 4 on level 21/24/27 or 30 so that you can take Weapon Spec and Epic Weapon Spec at the same time.
Take Rogue 2 on level 27+ for Tumble 30 dump.

Since you would want Discipline, you should still take Fighter on a high level to get the most ranks of it. If you also want lots of ranks in Spot or some other rogue-skill, Rogue 2 should also be taken quite late. So I guess it's Rogue 2 on level 29 and Fighter 4 on level 30.

That build loses the fourth attack due to only 15 BAB in preepic. You would need Fighter 5 for that (if you also want epic weapon spec) and you could not take Rogue 1 on level 1 for the aforementioned ton of skill points. You could do Cleric 23 / Fighter 6 / Rogue 1 and focus more heavily on heavily hitting things, but Cleric 24 is also a magic level for, uhhh, magic (due to being immune to Greater Dispelling used by PvE mobs), so you lose some convenience there as well.

Regards
Ts

Edit: I could also see arguments for Cleric 16/F4 in preepic, as it frees up an epic feat and gains the 4th attack instead of Epic Weapon Spec and skill points. Seems somewhat like a wash to me, but I'm curious to hear what others think.

You cannot take Epic Weapon Specialization and Weapon Specialization on the same level, even though you should be able to. (Dumb, I know.)

Were I building this concept, my level/class spread would look like either 24 cleric/1 monk/5 fighter or 23 cleric/2 rogue/5 fighter with 16 cleric/4 fighter pre-epic. Depending on whether you wanted cleave/evasion (monk) or 1d6 sneak attack/umd/evasion at the cost of a slight dispel chance. I find having 23 caster levels is fine for dispel retention.

A melee-focused version would top out wisdom at 20 and pump strength. Typical melee feats like weapon focus, blind-fight, imp crit. Epic feats would be Armor Skin, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess, Mummy Dust and probably Gr Wisdom I (to reach 20 for Mummy Dust) or Epic Skill Focus: Discipline.

MightNMagic wrote:

You cannot take Epic Weapon Specialization and Weapon Specialization on the same level, even though you should be able to. (Dumb, I know.)

I'm quite sure you can on a Fighter bonus feat level that falls upon a general epic feat level. What makes you think that you can't?

Because it's much more common to take epic weapon focus and epic spec on the same level, since EWF is a pre requisite for EWS. It's not that you can't take both on the same level though, as long as you take EWF beforehand. Most people grab WS before epics unless they're not taking many fighter levels.

davis114 wrote:

Because it's much more common to take epic weapon focus and epic spec on the same level, since EWF is a pre requisite for EWS. It's not that you can't take both on the same level though, as long as you take EWF beforehand. Most people grab WS before epics unless they're not taking many fighter levels.

Well, yeah, this is only worth doing if you can only fit Fighter 4 in the build and not Fighter 5. Usually, one wouldn't waste an epic feat to take the pre-epic Weapon Spec, but it's possible.

I also wouldn't take 3 fighter in pre epics. Stick with the four grouping rule. You'll net higher AB that way. So if you're doing fighter pre epic, which you absolutely should, take it in multiples of four to mix with cleric.

The 16/4 pre epic business is fine. I'd wait on a rogue level if it's wanted until a non feat epic level. That fifth fighter level isn't a bonus feat level though, so if you want to take EWS with it you'll have to do it on a general feat level.

This is definitely some great advice, I thank you guys a lot...as I'm not a good builder.

If you have more advice please do post it, I won't be making the character until I post the build here for review.

Ts_ wrote:

MightNMagic wrote:

You cannot take Epic Weapon Specialization and Weapon Specialization on the same level, even though you should be able to. (Dumb, I know.)

I'm quite sure you can on a Fighter bonus feat level that falls upon a general epic feat level. What makes you think that you can't?

You absoutely can, I do this on Brother Davion's build - 21 is epic focus, 24 is also fighter 4 and picks up spec and epic spec at the same level. Have tested this on an amia based test server.

If you're trying to make a fighter-type Cleric, don't take more than 16 total levels.

If you want a caster Cleric, go for ESF: Evocation, max out your wisdom and pick up Extend/Maximize/Empower Spell along the way.

10 + Spell Level (+9) + ESF: Evocation (+6) + Wisdom Bonus (+13) = DC 38 on implosion.

Maximized ice storm will do 90 damage with no save for half damage.

TormakSaber wrote:

Ts_ wrote:

MightNMagic wrote:

You cannot take Epic Weapon Specialization and Weapon Specialization on the same level, even though you should be able to. (Dumb, I know.)

I'm quite sure you can on a Fighter bonus feat level that falls upon a general epic feat level. What makes you think that you can't?

You absoutely can, I do this on Brother Davion's build - 21 is epic focus, 24 is also fighter 4 and picks up spec and epic spec at the same level. Have tested this on an amia based test server.

You can do this... done it many times on Amia.

I stand corrected. Been a long while since I tried and was thinking you couldn't. Most things like this, you cannot do in the same level up (ie, you cannot take great str to get 25 Str, THEN take dev crit, etc etc). NWN isn't very consistent.

Of course, not sure why you'd want to since you'd just be gimping yourself out of an extra attack using cleric/rogue (monk)/fighter.

Yeah, that was my point too. I'd rather take 6 fighter levels so I could grab four of them pre-epic for the extra BAB. Or 5, and just take that 5th level on a general feat level in epics for EWS. I'd probably prefer 5 if you want a rogue/monk level, so you can still get to 24 cleric and not have to worry about dispels.

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