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TormakSaber
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 Posted: Sat, Apr 30 2016, 6:31 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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viewtopic.php?f=112&t=56068&p=1398571#p1398571In the Modified Spells topic, players can now read some clarifications to PnP spells thta are commonly used on Amia, and how they function in regard to players and DM rulings needed. If any other spells require rulings, please submit them and we will add them to the topic. If there are any questions, please post them here.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Lutra
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Posted: Sat, Apr 30 2016, 7:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Oh nice! thank you for that!
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Sharl
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Posted: Sat, Apr 30 2016, 17:33 PM |
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Joined: 02 Mar 2016
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Excellent, I appreciate having this sort of information readily available. Thank you.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Apr 30 2016, 22:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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At player request, I've added a clarification about Mindblank and how it interacts with Divination spells.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dunecat
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 13:15 PM |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Location: +3 GMT
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Don't you find it odd that 4th level spell spell ("Lesser Mindblank") functionally duplicates 8th level spell (Proper Mindblank), and is readily available in a potion form?
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 13:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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<3
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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That Guy
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 13:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Dunecat wrote: Don't you find it odd that 4th level spell spell ("Lesser Mindblank") functionally duplicates 8th level spell (Proper Mindblank), and is readily available in a potion form? Well... its the same spell on one person, full mindblank works on an entire party, so... very not the same. Also, if we go removing mindblank potions, I'd think that would require an overhaul of the entire server since much of it requires a mindblank. Not to mention the Terrifying Rage argument, which is, use a mindblank or roll a 20. Sorry if this comes out a bit crass, but, really... if you're inferring that we should remove mindblank potions, that's a bit extreme.
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Dunecat
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 14:19 PM |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Location: +3 GMT
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That Guy wrote: Well... its the same spell on one person, full mindblank works on an entire party, so... very not the same. Also, if we go removing mindblank potions, I'd think that would require an overhaul of the entire server since much of it requires a mindblank. Not to mention the Terrifying Rage argument, which is, use a mindblank or roll a 20. Sorry if this comes out a bit crass, but, really... if you're inferring that we should remove mindblank potions, that's a bit extreme. I'm raising a question primarily in regard of PnP properties. Mechanical in-game properties is a slightly different topic, which deserves a separate thread for discussion; let's not derail this one._________________
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Akhlys
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 16:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2015
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You are the one derailing it. If you'd like the true pnp alternatives, they last 24 hours rather than 1 turn per caster level.
_________________ Ｍ Ａ Ｉ Ｔ Ｉ
Ｔ Ａ Ｔ Ｕ
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 18:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Dunecat wrote: Don't you find it odd that 4th level spell spell ("Lesser Mindblank") functionally duplicates 8th level spell (Proper Mindblank), and is readily available in a potion form? 1: It is a 5th level spell, and 2: No, not really. Given the preponderance of epic spell casting casters that are willing to break out Discern Location, Hindsight, and Greater Scrying on a pindrop, we as a DM team were willing to extend the only protection (literally, the only protection, as these spells don't have saves.) to both Lesser and Normal Mindblank, since they function the same outside one being an AoE and the other not. This will not change currently. Hope that answers your question.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dunecat
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 18:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Location: +3 GMT
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Yes, it's 5th level spell, my bad. Although it does not change much, on account of being outside of Brew Potion feat capability in either case and well below 8th level, where original spell lies.
Same can be said of Greater Scrying, which does, in fact, require a Will Save. Not intimately familiar with the Hindsight, but seeing that it's outside of OGL material, it can be assumed that learning the spell would require DM permission.
Your reply does answer my question. Thank you for clarification.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 20:09 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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What if I use greater teleport to teleport into a place the npc guards can't see? If im not in earshot or in visual range that's good to go right? And mundane doors don't block greater teleport which only needs a description to function.
Plus if I tp into a cell grab my pals hand and next round tp out what's a guard gonna do but be shocked... he even saw it!
Edit ; I guarantee it would take any guard more then six seconds to react to that.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 20:37 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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if it is a faction base then still not without a DM. Some faction or even city areas have a protection against that. And you cannot know if any guards are there. They might be on patrol just that moment and walk there. Or are hiding. Or whatever.
Areas where you normally are not allowed to go always need DM supervision.
_________________  
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 21:09 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote: if it is a faction base then still not without a DM. Some faction or even city areas have a protection against that. And you cannot know if any guards are there. They might be on patrol just that moment and walk there. Or are hiding. Or whatever.
Areas where you normally are not allowed to go always need DM supervision. So the steps for a jailbreak are (not a checklist, just a general 'this is a thing you might do') 1. Ask for visitation of the person you wanna free so you can scope the place out (iirc they have to give prisoners rp or they can just be released from jail as per rules so this should be permitted) and then go somewhere secret. 2. Wrangle a dm. 3. Get permission of all players in the area and online that would know you're going to teleport in and out from wherever you are for pnp spell permission. Not needed if step 2 is complete. 4. Auto quicken greater teleport with a mind blank on and get your buddy out. You can't tp into a dead magic area but that's about it. Teleport fails if the target isn't right. So three seconds in and out. Make sure everyone involved knows your auto-quicken greater-teleport takes 3 seconds and demand answers if the jail-break lasts longer or a player attempts to interfere after 3 seconds have elapsed. Remember if you have auto-quicken teleports it means you sunk 3 epic feats into it so you had better be able to rp it. 5. Also I think you can use locate object and just skip step one. Is this correct assuming no dead magic zone is present? edited for formatting and to include clarification from a DM after I got home. As it was a phone-post it was pretty gnarly. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
Last edited by Commie on Sun, May 01 2016, 23:37 PM, edited 3 times in total.
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 21:15 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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If a DM confirms the PnP spell, you do not need player permission.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 22:18 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote: If a DM confirms the PnP spell, you do not need player permission. Cool ty. This is why i took "haven" as a level up spell on my wizard despite not being able to cast it; i just say it's greater teleport taken as a level up spell. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 23:30 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I refuse to OOCly confirm steps for situations without context or full information at hand.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, May 01 2016, 23:40 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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edited my post cause it wasn't meant to be a 'follow these steps for a jailbreak!'
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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OpenTheRift
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 0:47 AM |
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Joined: 17 Feb 2014
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FUCK TELEPORTATION THAT IS ALL.
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bad man
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Luckbringer
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 3:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Location: The frozen north
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I have a wizard character and there have been times I have wanted to use a pnp spell but did not know whether it was acceptable to play that he had learnt that spell. What is the process for learning pnp spells?
_________________ aaegus battlehammer™ cloak rockhewer murtaugh gunn
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 4:20 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Scroll, taken on level up (take 'a unique spell' as a level up spell or something you can't cast thats on your learnable list anyway like Haven) or get with a DM.
It's likely a good idea to make a note when you learn a spell and let the fuzz know.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Luckbringer
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 7:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Location: The frozen north
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Thanks, I was meaning to ask more on the accepted process of learning the PnP spells in game. I.e. for the NWN spells you either add them at level up, or find the scrolls in game via loot, merchants or PCs.
But since these mechanics are not available in game for PnP spells, how does it work to actually find that spell scroll? And how do the DMs prefer it to be done?
I assume you could ask another PC to scribe it for you, if they claim to know it, but then how did they learn it?
Secondly, in player/player role play if someone wishes to cast a spell say, 'tongues'. They may ask permission to cast as per the PnP rules, but then how do I know as another player that they had legitimately learnt this spell and have it in their spell book or if they are just opportunistically saying they have it to gain from the situation without actually putting in the work to find the spell?
I would prefer to just trust other players, but you never know when misunderstandings may arise in these situations.
_________________ aaegus battlehammer™ cloak rockhewer murtaugh gunn
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 7:46 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Generally you have to trust players. Though you can get into funky situations because any wizard could scribe a greater teleport scroll and any of the players on Amia with UMD could therefore have access to it. And there's no 'item' for that so how do you prove they actually have the spell? It can also get funky when people are RP-ing non-standard classes, but using PnP spells their non-standard class has, spells the class on their character sheet doesn't have, so can they actually cast the spell? Example, if someone got approved to play a 'Beguiler' and is using a bard as base, can he just "PnP ok?" Beguiler spells? I guess if all players around say it's ok, but how do you check? How do you know he's not just a Bard? Contesting someones 'pnp ok?' really puts you on the spot, too. I know I've personally been in two instances where someone asked, "PnP ok?" I asked "Which spell?" and was told "Forget about it" and said player just walked to another zone only to come back 5 minutes later. It can be a no-win. It's really unenforceable barring direct DM intervention and people are stubborn. Not to mention telling someone 'no' is sometimes enough to get them to just swap characters on the spot and instantly end whatever it was they were doing (or trying to).
In that vein I recommend limiting your known 'pnp' spells and not becoming a collector, with actual documented proof you have the spells you say you have, simple screenshots fired off to the DM team, ask them to make a secret topic, "Spells *character* has," and just amend the topic when you RP learning something new. And keep it basic, don't find some obscure book, learn some spooky spellz, and start implanting cysts, a path that requires multiple PnP approvals just to do any single thing. Keep your pnp stuff simple, stick to the d20srd.
That said Flower, a wizard, has Greater Teleport. I'd be happy to teach you RP wise and if you want to wrangle a DM to help facilitate this so we can do something beyond emoting at each other that would be great. I like doing spell-stuff, so this offer is open to anyone, please PM me.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 13:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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http://dndtools.pw/ <- Helpful for checking out PnP spells and what they do.
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
Last edited by Gravemaskin on Mon, May 02 2016, 23:42 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 16:16 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Richard_Edmund
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 16:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)
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Commie wrote: I don't like DnD tools because a lot of the shit in source books is frankly really dumb. Examples; http://dndtools.pw/spells/book-of-vile- ... orns--137/ (Fucked even if you make the save) http://dndtools.pw/spells/libris-mortis ... yst--1488/ (Literally gross and then has like 5 other pnp spells to go with it) http://dndtools.pw/spells/players-handb ... ser--3005/ (peek at normal celerity and greater too) http://dndtools.pw/spells/frostburn--68 ... uch--1291/ (Maximize this) It's so bad. It's all so bad. And that's just stuff I remember off the top of my head. Not that core doesn't have issues, with things like Discern Location just allowing any cleric to literally tell you the location of literally anything barring a mind blank pot (minutes of protection) or deity intervention (as per the spell description!). And don't forget every cleric gets it. Heeey, the Necrotic Cyst is an awesome spell. Don't dis it until you try it! I have a guy who knows a guy who can get you hooked up. <.<
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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand
Discord: Bhaalorian#5715
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 18:19 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Richard_Edmund wrote: Commie wrote: I don't like DnD tools because a lot of the shit in source books is frankly really dumb. Examples; http://dndtools.pw/spells/book-of-vile- ... orns--137/ (Fucked even if you make the save) http://dndtools.pw/spells/libris-mortis ... yst--1488/ (Literally gross and then has like 5 other pnp spells to go with it) http://dndtools.pw/spells/players-handb ... ser--3005/ (peek at normal celerity and greater too) http://dndtools.pw/spells/frostburn--68 ... uch--1291/ (Maximize this) It's so bad. It's all so bad. And that's just stuff I remember off the top of my head. Not that core doesn't have issues, with things like Discern Location just allowing any cleric to literally tell you the location of literally anything barring a mind blank pot (minutes of protection) or deity intervention (as per the spell description!). And don't forget every cleric gets it. Heeey, the Necrotic Cyst is an awesome spell. Don't dis it until you try it! I have a guy who knows a guy who can get you hooked up. <.< If anyone ever tries to cyst me ill "PnP ok" the cyst but not allow any of the followup spells. #sharranIRL _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 19:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I had a couple of different length rants here but I sense I'm going to fall on deaf ears, so I will simply ask:
What's a Wizard supposed to do in a situation when approached and asked to help seek out someone who's missing or was believed to have been kidnapped?
I'm asking since that's what has prompted many uses of Discern Location on my part playing Tuomas.
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 19:25 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Grymia wrote: I had a couple of different length rants here but I sense I'm going to fall on deaf ears, so I will simply ask:
What's a Wizard supposed to do in a situation when approached and asked to help seek out someone who's missing or was believed to have been kidnapped?
I'm asking since that's what has prompted many uses of Discern Location on my part playing Tuomas. Boots on the ground. Get a dm to animate some npcs and ask them questions. "did you see the elf in green or elf in red?" get a lead. Use scrying to find clues and not just tell you the answer. That's all my opinion though. I don't like discern location because it's no save no Sr and mindblank only lasts minutes instead of a day. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 19:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Commie wrote: Grymia wrote: I had a couple of different length rants here but I sense I'm going to fall on deaf ears, so I will simply ask:
What's a Wizard supposed to do in a situation when approached and asked to help seek out someone who's missing or was believed to have been kidnapped?
I'm asking since that's what has prompted many uses of Discern Location on my part playing Tuomas. Boots on the ground. Get a dm to animate some npcs and ask them questions. "did you see the elf in green or elf in red?" get a lead. Use scrying to find clues and not just tell you the answer. That's all my opinion though. I don't like discern location because it's no save no Sr and mindblank only lasts minutes instead of a day. In the case of a situation where NPCs were able to be present, or otherwise able to provide clues, sure I'll do that. How often is that though? Also, how often are there witnesses to incidents like someone getting kidnapped (especially in the case of at least one instance it happened to Tuomas, where it happened on the road between places). Admittedly, in theory there is always the silent witness of the environment itself but that ESPECIALLY requires a DM having been there to observed what happened and presumes the kidnappers weren't smart enough to cover tracks. Also, for people that have a grievance with teleportation, why don't we go all the way then and take away the Portal Wands and Lantern system? Would you folks like that? Lastly, I admit discern and scrying aren't the only ways to locate someone depending on the circumstances and if you have the right tools at your disposal, but in a case where imminent danger is risked, having as close to a solid location as soon as possible is prudent. I just don't really feel like being the D&D Whipping boy since I'm playing a wizard. It's a very Gygaxian outlook.
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 19:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Calm down there. Nobody is attacking you, I just don't like discern location after I was on the other end of someone trying to find me with it. Its obnoxious and a dumb spell.
Additionally there are pretty much always going to be witnesses of some kind. Find a druid or Ranger and talk to the trees and birds if there were no physical people there. At least that's interactive. Which is why I loathe discern location, its literally "just tell me the answer no save no Sr."
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 19:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I can understand, unfortunately I've been at the business end of similar effects. Just that this isn't the first time this has come up.
And relying on a druid or ranger to be in a particular section of the road at a particular time.. eh.. yeeah that seems goofy. But, there are similar options if you can bring a druid into the investigation and there was none actually present.
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 20:00 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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Alright my little darlings, momma cat is getting a bit catty now. This thread is for this: TormakSaber wrote:
If any other spells require rulings, please submit them and we will add them to the topic.
If there are any questions, please post them here.
This topic is NOT about which PnP spells you personally like or dislike. It is also not a guide on how who is to RP what in which situation and how you feel situations should be handled. This discussion is absolutely pointless and only leads to arguments because it is a matter of personal preference and playstyle. It also is entirely moot because in the end either the players involved and/or the DM in a plot decides which PnP spells or other means they allow to attempt solve the issue. So please get back here on what the topic is about. If you want PnP spells in regards of Amia clearified, list them. If you have questions about already posted ones, ask them. But stop arguing about what you like or dislike because that is about as useful as arguing if strawberries or rasperries taste better. I also want no funny remarks, jokes or agruments about this post. Get back on topic or get a few days forum cool off.  _________________
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 20:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Understood and I'm sorry about getting derailed.
A point on Discern location which, while I THINK i understand how it works.
if you're not in a specific location such as a hut, or specific cave or domicile within a larger area (such as the Amian Forest) , how narrow does it get in it's description?
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 20:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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How about true seeing?
What specifically can't it Pierce?
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Mon, May 02 2016, 23:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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Given how broken this spell is (as it allows the caster to learn EVERYTHING the target knows, alter memories, any and all aspect of a personality(feelings, views, emotions etc) even down to the target's alignment) is it kocher to use on Amia? Figured I'd ask since to cure it completely you'd need break enchantment (and atonement in some cases) + a miracle/wish spell (which both require DM oversight).
_________________
Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, May 03 2016, 1:30 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Gravemaskin wrote: Given how broken this spell is (as it allows the caster to learn EVERYTHING the target knows, alter memories, any and all aspect of a personality(feelings, views, emotions etc) even down to the target's alignment) is it kocher to use on Amia? Figured I'd ask since to cure it completely you'd need break enchantment (and atonement in some cases) + a miracle/wish spell (which both require DM oversight). I believe there is more then one character currently on Amia that are currently subject to that spell. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, May 03 2016, 4:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I will get DM consensus on that spell and get back to you.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Lutra
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Posted: Tue, May 03 2016, 14:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Can you add detect evil and the rounds like in the case of detect magic? Other spells that generally cause argument like zone of truth, discern lies, dominate person could be added to this list.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Tue, May 03 2016, 19:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Last I was told by a staff member when it came to spells like that, it was a policy of "if the player on the other side wants too I guess, but we're not enforcing it. Player done, player undone." I really don't think a spell like that really belongs in player hands anyway, it's primarily just meant to be super evil. The sort of spell the Darth Malak uses to turn Bastila evil in kotor.
_________________  Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, May 04 2016, 0:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Lutra wrote: Can you add detect evil and the rounds like in the case of detect magic? Other spells that generally cause argument like zone of truth, discern lies, dominate person could be added to this list. I already did that. Detect evil has the longest writeup along with scrying in the list, I think. Could you explain what needs to be added about zone of truth and discern lies?
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, May 04 2016, 18:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Gravemaskin wrote: Given how broken this spell is (as it allows the caster to learn EVERYTHING the target knows, alter memories, any and all aspect of a personality(feelings, views, emotions etc) even down to the target's alignment) is it kocher to use on Amia? Figured I'd ask since to cure it completely you'd need break enchantment (and atonement in some cases) + a miracle/wish spell (which both require DM oversight). By DM consensus, Mindrape no longer exists on Amia. This does not invalidate any previous castings of the spell, but the spell no longer can be cast, henceforth. Casters who know the spell find that it slips from their arcane and divine memories, and soon, with the spell no longer being cast as frequently, knowledge of the spell quickly leaves the collective unconscious of the magickal community.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, May 04 2016, 18:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Grymia wrote: Understood and I'm sorry about getting derailed.
A point on Discern location which, while I THINK i understand how it works.
if you're not in a specific location such as a hut, or specific cave or domicile within a larger area (such as the Amian Forest) , how narrow does it get in it's description? If you're in Amia Forest but not anywhere specific in Amia Forest, Discern Location returns "Amia Forest".
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, May 04 2016, 18:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Commie wrote: How about true seeing?
What specifically can't it Pierce? It functions per PnP, with these Amia specific additions that will be added to the list: Various subraces have un-pierceable disguises, such as Dragons, Fey'ri, and others at our discretion. Assassins' Alter Self - one "Alter Ego" is un-pierceable by True Sight. This must be maintained and cannot be changed at awhim. Druids' and Shifters' Wildshape, Elemental Shape, Greater Wildshapes, all feat-granted forms, and Thousand Faces are un-pierceable by True Sight.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, May 05 2016, 2:51 AM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Really, any form of transmutative shapeshifting should be non-pierce-able, IMO. Divination already trumps Illusion, it doesn't need to beat yet another school. That, and the idea of what Trueseeing would show you is silly. If you look at shapechanged person as a Dragon, are you seeing a human outline floating in a dragon's body? If you look at a polymorphed person as a Faerie hiding in a teacup, do you see the outline of a full sized human sitting on your cabinet? Either way, you have a case where Divination, the school of revealing the truth, is actively lying to you; there's no human embedded in that dragon and no person shoved inside that faerie, they've physically changed their body. It's dumb, and it's stinky, and I hate it. There are a dozen of other ways to tell something isn't the real McCoy without insta-fix spell or monster ability.
//ye old rant
_________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Thu, May 05 2016, 3:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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TormakSaber wrote: Gravemaskin wrote: Given how broken this spell is (as it allows the caster to learn EVERYTHING the target knows, alter memories, any and all aspect of a personality(feelings, views, emotions etc) even down to the target's alignment) is it kocher to use on Amia? Figured I'd ask since to cure it completely you'd need break enchantment (and atonement in some cases) + a miracle/wish spell (which both require DM oversight). By DM consensus, Mindrape no longer exists on Amia. This does not invalidate any previous castings of the spell, but the spell no longer can be cast, henceforth. Casters who know the spell find that it slips from their arcane and divine memories, and soon, with the spell no longer being cast as frequently, knowledge of the spell quickly leaves the collective unconscious of the magickal community. <3
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 08 2016, 4:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Mindrape and True Seeing clarifications have been added to the page. Thank you to everyone who's been helpful so far. Please continue to make more suggestions or ask if necessary.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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serbiris
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Posted: Sun, May 08 2016, 14:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Does "Programmed Amnesia" (from... Complete Mage, I think?) receive the same treatment as Mindrape, being functionally similar but not mechanically broken or irreversible?
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, May 09 2016, 2:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Yes. Will add.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Sat, May 14 2016, 5:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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Clone - Allowed? Can it be used same as other pnp spells or does it require more, like the first setup and creation of the clone to be done with an appropriate waiting period or can this just be assumed to have been done? Contingency and similar spells that allow conditional triggers on self or items - Allowed? If so only with DM oversight or simple player concent enough? Magic Jar Or similar spells - Allowed? If so only with DM oversight or simple player concent enough? Trap the soul/ Imprisonment/ Temporal Stasis - Allowed? If so only with DM oversight or simple player concent enough? Thanks!
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Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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