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aida
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 Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 6:34 AM |
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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MisterLich wrote: Do I really need to explain that you can control your familiars? You just did? But I don't think anyone does that mid pvp! Leaves you really exposed! : ) And this is a pvp issue, no?
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 6:44 AM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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If I had a familiar that had this ability, I'd control it and use the confuse bolt as a pvp opener, lol.
Besides, the AI which you denigrated is actually, to my knowledge, what got me from Toodles. After all, if you're in pvp, the AI on familiars uses the special abilities first, so it will open with confuse bolt on your pvp enemies.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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aida
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 16:24 PM |
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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My mistake. I thought it opened with improved invisibility.
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Holy_Avenger
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 19:19 PM |
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Joined: 19 May 2014
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Mister - Dislike everyone in area, pop terrirage, laugh at them being scared, killing them (All inside the town) and then being pissed they used mindblank next time - Lich, was kicked in the ass?  Ohh my, I am so sad, that I didn't see that. It must have been pretty hilarious. You are a damn cleric / SD ... And you were kicked by, probably one of the poorest (sorry Toodles), familiars in game? And then you cry on a forums about how OP it is...? Man, I recommend you to seek professional help, because there is something terribly wrong inside your head. If you will take this from Faerie Dragon - Give him something really special and neat in return, because you will destroy the whole familiar as it is. OR (thank you LibrisMortis_666) take all this -
- Paladins with a lot of Charisma and multiple great smite feats can do overwhelming damage to an evil character, and vise versa.
- Shifters can turn into Immune to Critical / Sneak attacks, Dragons immune to X Damage (Fire / Acid / Electrical), a Wraith that gives them HiPS, and a Kobold, so you just have to put Hide / Move Silent Skills. Mind Flayer form that does KD.
- Barb, if focused in Taunt, can lower your AC with Taunt + Curse Song, making you easier to kill.
- Dex-Weapon masters have very high AC / and AB, unlike their counter part Str, who only get AB.
- Wizards (Depending on school focus) get high DC spells, which is game over if you're unprepared. Or they get a lot of summons, and can just GS and dispell. They can also stack Evocation spells for DPS.
- Druid with maximum Wisdom for Dragonshape, +EDK, +Badger = one HELL of a fight.
Away from them as well. First, you claim to be playing on a RolePlay server - on the other hand, you can't suffer IC consequences for mistakes that your toon made? That's just wrong. Ohh, just sayin', I am curious how this lament will end. 
_________________
Reynard d'Aubernon - Retired
Balaeyi Elandinai Haeren - Active
Jaezred Kilr'ae - Active
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 19:36 PM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Dude.
What is wrong with you? Nothing you said had any relevance to the balance discussion, it was an entire post of insults because you dislike me as a person.
I am forwarding your post to DMs.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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Holy_Avenger
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 19:48 PM |
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Joined: 19 May 2014
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Actually, I do not dislike you as person. I do not have -anything- against you. I just do not like hypocritical attention whores - that's all. So yes, I am fully behind my statement, for what I have said is known fact. 
_________________
Reynard d'Aubernon - Retired
Balaeyi Elandinai Haeren - Active
Jaezred Kilr'ae - Active
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 19:51 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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none of the stuff you said was really relevant at all, HA. as it all has a save or sr or requires actual build investment or something. Holy_Avenger wrote: Actually, I do not dislike you as person. I do not have -anything- against you. I just do not like hypocritical attention whores - that's all. So yes, I am fully behind my statement, for what I have said is known fact. that's also pretty fuckin rude when we're talking about an oversight in game balance. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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#StraightOutaAvernus
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 20:30 PM |
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Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
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Commie wrote: none of the stuff you said was really relevant at all, HA.
as it all has a save or sr or requires actual build investment or something. Also, for the record, Dragon shape is terrible; so don't use it in arguments of balance please. Can someone please explain to me why folk get so personal about these threads? Honestly -- we're quite actually just suggesting a balance change. If someone decided tomorrow "Improved Expertise is OP nerf it" after I beat them in Improved Expertise, I wouldn't auto-associate it with being childish -- because that is being childish.Sometimes it actually requires testing to determine that something is too strong. That's-… why it's testing. With that said, it 'is' one of the most pitiful familiars, and if you'd have kept up, you'dve noticed we're already suggesting that the familiar itself be made more potent at the cost of a bolt that literally is useless outside of PvP auto wins. Leaping to defend someone just because they loiter in Bendir doe. _________________ Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers
Last edited by #StraightOutaAvernus on Sat, Aug 20 2016, 20:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Bertnard
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 20:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Location: Under the bridge
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There are advantages and disadvantages of almost every build/class/familiar/pet/mount/spell....
Everything has its strong and weak sides.
If these topics "Nerf this, it just defeated me in PvP" goes on, we can everyone play level 1 fighter, because that COULD achieve balance among people (but I guess there would be still someone complaining about it being unbalanced)
Off topic: NWN as the game IS NOT made for PvP, the gameplay of it is bad. I've been to many pvp servers just for fun and everyone who understands the game a little will tell you this. (ok, not everyone, but most of them)
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 21:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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is your suggestion really comparable to adding a save to the ability? is the pocket-clutch just that important to some people?
All that's being discussed here; adding a save to a save-less confuse.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Bertnard
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 22:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Location: Under the bridge
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There are ways to counter it and even if you don't counter it, it's not 100% win.
The companion is very weak and has only this -could be very powerful, but still very situational- ability.
Seriously, it's not THAT powerful as you are saying.
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Guardian
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 22:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
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Of course it's not. Don't you wonder why there's only one, ONE famous (known) fairy dragon companion? Why almost every single wizard have either panther or skeleton (or dire wolf, let's mention that one too) rather than beholder (who is also, by your logic, uber OP and should be nerfed) or the drake? As for the dragon - aida is actually right. The companion does indeed open every combat, be it pvp or pve with firstly casting IE. After that it casts confusion bolt. It has no real ac, no real hp, no real immunities or resistances. The fact is - until you've started this utterly useless and sad charade, this companion gone completely unnoticed and was picked by a minority. I know of two cases, and both took the drake for, suprise suprise, RP reasons, rather than "damn, look at them immunities on that bony f*cker!" On the other hand, I know (knew, no idea if they are playing still) of quite a few players who are playing goodly spellcasters and have skeleton as a companion. One of them even "respects" Lathander, to quote her words . We need a fix for these situations, firsthand.
_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)
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Commie
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 22:32 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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yeah beholder is op as well. it should also get changed to have saves. Quote: It has no real ac, no real hp, no real immunities or resistances. The fact is - until you've started this utterly useless and sad charade, this companion gone completely unnoticed and was picked by a minority. yeah it was a pocket clutch. some kinds of people sit on that shit for years and never tell anyone about the tricks they find; stuff that should have been changed a long ass time ago. then someone went and did it and now we're here, people actually thinking a no save no sr confuse is balanced because... well frankly I don't know why. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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aida
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 22:58 PM |
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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I don't think anyone was sitting on it. The server is fairly old, I'm sure it's been used many times before, that and beholder. The reason it's an issue now. . . Well, that's been discussed already. And, again, I don't disagree there should be a change to them. Only that, this has been a thing for a while. A long while.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2016, 23:04 PM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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The reason it's being discussed is because it's not balanced. I only just learned about the ability having no save and no SR checks, otherwise - as I've said before - I would've immediately asked about it before.
That's the reason it's an issue. It's not a balanced ability.
You can't give a bad summon a game-breaking ability and call it balanced. You balance the summon to be decent, and you balance the ability to not be game-breaking. That's what balance is. We can discuss how to make the Faerie dragon a bit more potent in lieu of the OP ability, in a separate thread, maybe.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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angst360
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 3:46 AM |
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Joined: 10 Jul 2014
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Bertnard wrote: If these topics "Nerf this, it just defeated me in PvP" goes on, we can everyone play level 1 fighter, because that COULD achieve balance among people (but I guess there would be still someone complaining about it being unbalanced)
Nice. Was laughing about this the other day with someone, er that the only way to achieve true balance was to get rid of all classes but fighter... Know what else is out of balance? A pc designed specifically for pvp (and is pretty much useless for anything else) that is equipped with extremely high save gear as their standard everyday kit... all the time. Coming soon to an 'improvement' thread near you: "rolling a '1' shouldn't be an automatic fail..." Maybe we should nip this in the bud and get rid of the ability to mythal +'s to saves onto gear.... that would go a long way towards balance, imo. [/sarcasm] Sadly, it 'seems' like the only thing most of the recent 'improvements' have accomplished .. is to reduce the size of the player base. But, hey, at least a handful of people are (kinda?) happier...
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 4:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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angst360 wrote: Bertnard wrote: If these topics "Nerf this, it just defeated me in PvP" goes on, we can everyone play level 1 fighter, because that COULD achieve balance among people (but I guess there would be still someone complaining about it being unbalanced)
Nice. Was laughing about this the other day with someone, er that the only way to achieve true balance was to get rid of all classes but fighter... Know what else is out of balance? A pc designed specifically for pvp (and is pretty much useless for anything else) that is equipped with extremely high save gear as their standard everyday kit... all the time. Coming soon to an 'improvement' thread near you: "rolling a '1' shouldn't be an automatic fail..." Maybe we should nip this in the bud and get rid of the ability to mythal +'s to saves onto gear.... that would go a long way towards balance, imo. [/sarcasm] Sadly, it 'seems' like the only thing most of the recent 'improvements' have accomplished .. is to reduce the size of the player base. But, hey, at least a handful of people are (kinda?) happier... Misconception here. A toon made for pvp is going to pretty much obliterate everything else (this isn't wow, good at pvp here means good at everything) and there's nothing stopping a pvp monster from rping in any way. So yeah pvp characters are just better. Also server pop has been rising since these changes started. Lots of new characters being rolled too to take advantage. Balance is a good thing. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 4:29 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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Correlation =/= Causation.
_________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤
#GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 4:41 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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God I just love that phrase. You can just chuck it out there as a counter argument to anything. You don't even have to back it up, just throw it out there.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 4:57 AM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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I'm so confused why we're still talking about characters built for pvp, and everybody is acting like pvp is the devil. You realize without pvp you'd have nearly nothing to do but grind, right? DM events happen once in a blue moon, we don't have a ton of DM's anymore people, you drove most of them away.
You should be happy people want to play evil toons and cause conflict, otherwise you'd do nothing but sit in Bendir Dale all day long waiting for the next DM event to occur. You're even fighting for Bendir Dale to require DM's to be present just to pvp and have conflict there as a normal occurrence. What do you want? A social server, or a server built for role play in the Forgotten Realms, arguably one of the most dystopic, conflict-ridden settings created in gaming?
Stop trying to turn this thread into a thread about vilifying pvp for no reason. I've lost to people in pvp on Osiris several times. Fuck guys, I lost to Matthew of Valendale, who is not built for pvp at all, because I rolled low on a Dragon's fear aura and forgot to drink mindblank beforehand. That is straight up my fault for forgetting mindblank and I was a bit annoyed at my mistake, but also kinda laughed. I don't want to change the dragon's aura or some shit just because I lost. Stop making up ad hominem attacks without merit just because you don't like the idea of balancing a familiar for some reason.
Start actually forming coherent arguments against the idea, instead, so we can be productive here.
If your argument is that a touch attack is balanced in itself and it doesn't need a save, then cool, I shouldn't have a save on Harm then. See the problem there? Every ability that's somewhat powerful needs a save to resist, or at the very least, an SR check. Maximized Searing Light on an epic evoker doesn't have a save and does 88 damage, but it still checks SR. I even agree that it might be a bit too powerful with no save; Tormak and I have talked about that one a little. It's just common sense. If you have a powerful ability with no save, it usually needs a save.
I will, to prove my point, level up my pure wizard Berlin and change his familiar to a Faerie Dragon, and show you all just how ludicrous this is, if that's how you want to play this. I will use this apparently not-OP ability and just have fun with it, and show you all a good time.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 5:06 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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oh yeah i have full intentions to unleash this fae dragon on people.
and my build is pretty sub optimal so it balances out because I didn't even take the 'good' familiar just the fae dragon.
i even got a little macro to just one-click summon and confuse bolt someone. takes 1/2 an action.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 5:16 AM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Can the attacks people, stay on topic.
Seriously. Stop being jerks to one another.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 5:31 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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I think giving a will save vs stun might be okay?
What is the ability fluff wise ?
_________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤
#GreenisNotACreativeColour"It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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Bertnard
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 5:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Location: Under the bridge
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MisterLich wrote: I will, to prove my point, level up my pure wizard Berlin and change his familiar to a Faerie Dragon, and show you all just how ludicrous this is, if that's how you want to play this. I will use this apparently not-OP ability and just have fun with it, and show you all a good time. So now the argument is "Nerf this, or I'm going to abuse the **** out of it in forced PvP?... *Claps* MisterLich wrote: If your argument is that a touch attack is balanced in itself and it doesn't need a save, then cool, I shouldn't have a save on Harm then. See the problem there? Every ability that's somewhat powerful needs a save to resist, or at the very least, an SR check. Maximized Searing Light on an epic evoker doesn't have a save and does 88 damage, but it still checks SR. I even agree that it might be a bit too powerful with no save; Tormak and I have talked about that one a little. It's just common sense. If you have a powerful ability with no save, it usually needs a save. Your entire thread is based on "That companion has x/y, but my character doesn't. That class has x/y, but cleric doesn't."
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 5:43 AM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Nope, I didn't say abuse, or anything about rule breaking.
I told you I'd show you the error of your ways in telling me it's balanced.
To the second part of your post, no, that little blurb is arguing for consistency. You can't argue for one thing because you like it arbitrarily and negate another, equal thing based on your argument, just because you don't like it.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 6:11 AM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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PassionateShadow wrote: I think giving a will save vs stun might be okay?
What is the ability fluff wise ? Yes, Commie and I (and, maybe one other person?) suggested a will save, vs confusion (that's what the ability is...) just like the spell. The DC could be 10 + CL or 10 + 1/2 CL, or something similar. I don't know what you mean about fluff. I don't lore-wise understand faerie dragons. This is purely a balance concern, I don't really know the lore of the creature, sorry. _________________ Osiris Masud
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 6:28 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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in classic literature they are known for being irresistibly confusing.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 6:55 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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MisterLich wrote: PassionateShadow wrote: I think giving a will save vs stun might be okay?
What is the ability fluff wise ? Yes, Commie and I (and, maybe one other person?) suggested a will save, vs confusion (that's what the ability is...) just like the spell. The DC could be 10 + CL or 10 + 1/2 CL, or something similar. I don't know what you mean about fluff. I don't lore-wise understand faerie dragons. This is purely a balance concern, I don't really know the lore of the creature, sorry. Fluff as in... what exactly do they do? Cast a spell. throw glitter in your eyes, tell really bad annoying jokes? _________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤
#GreenisNotACreativeColour"It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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Silkelock
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 7:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Sweden
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The faerie dragon's breath weapon is a cone of euphoria gas. Apparently.
_________________ Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
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Suhjet
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 7:04 AM |
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Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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Euphoria doesn't really equate to confusion though. I'd settle for pocket sand.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 7:06 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Silkelock wrote: The faerie dragon's breath weapon is a cone of euphoria gas. Apparently.  Yeah but ssrsly, a will save = to 10+1/2 cl. Then change it to like 3/day instead of one, or if we can give it a mmo style cooldown, once every 10 rounds. beholders, same thing, but odv reflex vs kd and whatnot for the others. also on a personal note there are several levels of pvp degeneracy im not willing to stoop to. the fey dragon and beholder are examples of those. so is 13/10/7. but that's just me. cant vouch for everyone. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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#StraightOutaAvernus
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 7:20 AM |
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Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
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Holy shit this thread.Biting. Realtalk mode. Commie and Lich are right.
Bertnard and Guardian, you opened on "let's not balance this because of RP" and have therefore relinquished your right to discuss balance.
aida, if stuff didn't change because it's been here for a while we'd still have the un-nerfed devcrit; and EDodge still existing is bad enough.
Passionate Shadow, I actually agree with you for a change. Correlation ain't the cause, and we should definitely talk about a save or alternative flavor fluff for the summon. With this said, let's try to progress this forward and avoid naysaying unless you actually have something to say for why the ability, as compared to -- say… the confusion spell (which the mage with this summon also has access to), shouldn't be beholden to some standard of save-based balance; where the only thing that currently ensures it will miss is a natural one or a freedom belt. -and we really, really, really don't need to count a freedom belt as a valid point of balance when talk has been out there to remove the property anyway; and it's also inadvertent DEX favoritism regardless. The summon as a whole could definitely use a rehash. Dial back on this ability, loose some emphasis on it -- same on the eyeball summon. Add some sneak attack/DEX based combat ability, since the two summons don't lend themselves to head on melee anyway. Suddenly, we have something that's on tier with those skeletons that even good guys have been known to take. Just food for thought. I definitely agree at making the save itself at the level where it's currently proposed. 10+1/2 CL, or even 10+3/4ths (if we wanna reward closer-to-pure classing) would be perfectly viable.
_________________ Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 7:38 AM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Just one thing.
Freedom, to my knowledge, doesn't prevent confusion from working.
I haven't tested this but it doesn't list it on the wiki as being prevented by freedom.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 8:01 AM |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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Silkelock wrote: The faerie dragon's breath weapon is a cone of euphoria gas. Apparently. So the pc starts tripping out hence the stun because they are too busy seeing pretty colors and such. If it's a gas I think perhaps a fort save may be more appropriate because it seems a 'chemical' sort of change? Then again magic breath is still prolly magic which goes back to Will. _________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤
#GreenisNotACreativeColour"It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 8:11 AM |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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It would actually be interesting and useful as an ability, if it were fortitude vs confusion. That would be neat. And I'd personally use the familiar still because that would be an interesting pair with a wizard who specializes in enchantment for example; wizard targets will, familiar targets fortitude.
+1.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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Bertnard
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 8:24 AM |
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Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Location: Under the bridge
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#StraightOutaAvernus wrote: ......................... Yeah, well... I see you didn't even bother to read anything I wrote and you just throw out something. You should maybe actually read (maybe several times, it could help) what I wrote, then react to it. It had nothing to do with RP, it was purely balance-wise. All I see is bunch of IC friends trying to defend one of them who got defeated - thus nerfing the ability that defeated him. Sorry, that's the only result I got from reading all of this. You're not even trying to put up good arguments anymore. Now it's only up to DMs to decide. But if they really start nerfing things like this, it's just a proof how low Amia can sink.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 8:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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Commie and I barely RP because I disliked the Fort RP, I told them this, and then left the Fort and haven't played with them since except once to grind our new characters together because we have nothing in common ICly. Yeah, we're such good friends ICly. Way to go.
Seriously, why are you trolling.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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Silkelock
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 9:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Sweden
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PassionateShadow wrote: Silkelock wrote: The faerie dragon's breath weapon is a cone of euphoria gas. Apparently. So the pc starts tripping out hence the stun because they are too busy seeing pretty colors and such. If it's a gas I think perhaps a fort save may be more appropriate because it seems a 'chemical' sort of change? Then again magic breath is still prolly magic which goes back to Will. From the draconomicon it is a DC15 will save which does not mean much in our setting. However, less salt in this thread. I will pharaphrase what someone else said which I think is a spot on analysis of it all: "It is often situations like OP described that brings to light circumstances where certain abilities offer a powerful counter to something else." If you have a personal need to debate the IC situation or which players affiliated with eachother further, take it to Private Messages over the forums. _________________ Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
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SamTheGiantSlayer
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 9:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 Mar 2014
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This is the first and only warning given to say that this is a discussion of balance and not a dissertation on certain player interactions. Keep it civil and keep it on topic.
_________________ Thats the way it crumbles ... cookie-wise!
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Terra_777
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 10:26 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Location: Sweden
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Confusion respects mind immunity, it should, if it doesnt then that is a bug. Then I think the rest of the monster abilities, just like this one, should be subject to the CC duration changes. Then we can see where we stand in terms of the familiar abilities.
_________________
Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 10:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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I've just tested it, it does respect mindblank, but it lasts the full CL / 2 rounds duration. And it's got a huge AB for a ranged touch attack because of familiar buffs on Amia. I believe mine was +26 (I didn't screenshot my test but I will get a screenshot of it in one moment), and I'm only CL 17. It only goes up from there. I really think it should have a save. EDIT: Level 17, here's the touch attack roll vs a fire giant. I rolled the lowest possible roll without getting a natural 1. A 2. And it still hit. http://prntscr.com/c8g30b_________________ Osiris Masud
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Bertnard
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 11:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Location: Under the bridge
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MisterLich wrote: I told you I'd show you the error of your ways in telling me it's balanced. Like you've shown us with the rage and Frudgy, right? You're such a mentor, thank Gods we have you here. #StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Commie and Lich are right.
Based on this you have therefore relinquished your right to discuss.
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Guardian
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 11:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
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Bertnard wrote: #StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Commie and Lich are right.
Based on this you have therefore relinquished your right to discuss. LMAO. Yes, SOA, for me RP will always be a prior aspect of the game since I'm playing on a RP server. This "ability" is not gamebreaking, it's easy to counter and until Lichy said that he's going to pick the familiar and abuse the ability to prove his point (which he did in the past too, but let's not discuss that again), it was basically non-existant. Commie wrote:
yeah it was a pocket clutch. some kinds of people sit on that shit for years and never tell anyone about the tricks they find; stuff that should have been changed a long ass time ago.
Yes, this description suits people like Elyon to the letter. Damn Rosary was saving her familiar's uber powers to hit the poor Osiris in the way most vicious with this game-breaking ability. How could you, candy W!!
_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 15:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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i didn't mention rosary at all. i just know from past mmo/game experience that people will find something obscure/broken, get a bag with 100 of them, and just hold it until they need to 'win.' https://youtu.be/xaFNpQZoI9k?t=23i also don't get why you guys are taking the suggestion of adding a save to a save-free confusion so personally. some of the vitriol here is just dripping with toxicity. Guardian wrote: This "ability" is not gamebreaking, it's easy to counter and until Lichy said that he's going to pick the familiar and abuse the ability to prove his point (which he did in the past too, but let's not discuss that again), it was basically non-existant. What's the counter? mind blank is on the disjoin list so it's not that. 'being a 38 dex character' so there's a chance at dodging the bolt is also not a counter. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 15:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Bertnard wrote: You should maybe actually read (maybe several times, it could help) what I wrote, then react to it. It had nothing to do with RP, it was purely balance-wise.
All I see is bunch of IC friends trying to defend one of them who got defeated - thus nerfing the ability that defeated him. Sorry, that's the only result I got from reading all of this.
You're not even trying to put up good arguments anymore. Now it's only up to DMs to decide. But if they really start nerfing things like this, it's just a proof how low Amia can sink. Bertnard wrote: Based on this you have therefore relinquished your right to discuss. Bertnard wrote: So now the argument is "Nerf this, or I'm going to abuse the **** out of it in forced PvP?... *Claps*
Your entire thread is based on "That companion has x/y, but my character doesn't. That class has x/y, but cleric doesn't." You really need to simmer down man. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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walnutboy
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 16:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom
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MisterLich wrote: I've just tested it, it does respect mindblank, but it lasts the full CL / 2 rounds duration. And it's got a huge AB for a ranged touch attack because of familiar buffs on Amia. I believe mine was +26 (I didn't screenshot my test but I will get a screenshot of it in one moment), and I'm only CL 17. It only goes up from there. I really think it should have a save. EDIT: Level 17, here's the touch attack roll vs a fire giant. I rolled the lowest possible roll without getting a natural 1. A 2. And it still hit. http://prntscr.com/c8g30bTo be scientific about it the test should be done under the same condition you first saw it rather than a PvE encounter with the AI which has a somewhat predictable spell cycle. PvP is different as you don't know what the other person is already running or even a guess of the gear they have. The screenshot, likewise, is a snip from a larger one and isn't really proof one way or the other. Lets face it the whole thing came about because of PvP so that can't be removed from the equation, people react differently than a programmed response after all. There is the wonder if this would have come up at all if a random event hadn't have included the familiar most likely attacking on its own after its summoner was set to hostile. People tend not to complain too much if they notice a gimmick in the PvE environment so you have to accept how people might view this when it happens to you and you report it given your use of PvP. I agree that i was like 'great, someone looses and is complaining of the how' when i started reading this and to be fair i still am a little but a flaw is a flaw regardless of how it is found and by whom... this said though, are we sure it is a flaw? If your removing something from the familiar than the familiar itself needs to be fixed as a whole rather than just removing/nerfing/killing a part of what makes that particular creature shine or useful. On the other side of things, seriously guys, i doubt people are sat there just waiting for someone to engage them in PvP so they can use their familiars ability to stop you dead in your tracks! ... always pays to pop a mindblank potion before anything happens mind heh, i found that out with a fear aura a while back!
_________________
When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 16:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Also, me, ML, Straightouttaavernus or whatever, we arn't friends outside the game. We met on amia. We hang out ig because it's ic to do so, not because we're in a skype chat (I personally do not even have skype). It's not like we make new characters and just join each others groups somehow getting promoted to positions of authority pre-30 because we're ooc friends.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 16:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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I used the ability in an OOC pvp test with a friend's shifter. I opened with timestop, summoned familiar during timestop, immediately confuse-bolt'd him as timestop ended. I won the pvp instantly. I just don't get why this idea is being defended with such fervor. Is it because I'm the one who suggested it? Walnut, you are dissatisfied with my screenshot because I didn't snap the entire log? I literally summoned my familiar, and had it use the bolt on a fire giant. I don't know what you're dissatisfied with here. And if people are scared that Imma use the ability, maybe that's a sign of your own hypocrisy... I'm the one who suggested adding a save, so don't accuse me of being a powergamer now that you've so adamantly stood your ground and said it doesn't need a save and it isn't OP  That said I'd welcome you to change your minds and admit that saveless, SR bypassing confusion, with basically enough AB to hit anybody with a flatfooted touch attack, is a bit ridiculous and needs a save added. You even have Terra saying it needs tweaking - in the first way, it should be altered to be in line with the new CC changes, because it's still CL/2 rounds. _________________ Osiris Masud
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 16:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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That's likely 14 rounds of cc then.
That's a lot of seconds.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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MisterLich
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Posted: Sun, Aug 21 2016, 16:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
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You really only need like 3 rounds to win. As soon as they're confused, just summon BBoD or something, mass haste, and spam IGMS.
_________________ Osiris Masud
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