The matter of gear and roleplay success will forever be an ongoing debate.
Stealth characters inevitably require high stats, as do guard characters. Figure heads need to be untouchable or one barbarian psycho with an axe called "Glug-Glug" will usurp nations overnight.
Amia to me has been telegraphed as ECL 30 or pack your bags, not because of the world or the mobs but because of the players. Does anyone hit level fifteen and turn off hunting bounties? D&D is a game of adventure, everything that gets in your way can threaten that adventure. Plenty of playtime is finding/requesting items, xp, widgets - basically the strength to achieve your goals until growth stops. When a mechanical peak of possibility is reached the experience feels limiting, however the power of being the person at the top is liberating.
I'm a recluse when it comes to chatter. I say hello when prompted or answer questions but I keep to myself otherwise. Fymor was an interesting character to me, I told myself that every single player-character I saw was going to kick his arse three ways from sunday. That every single player-character existed to destroy him if there was ever a motive. Observations were that average people trained themselves to extremes, had millions of gold coins and priceless artifacts of untold power. Amia was a Cold War situation where nukes would be fired because mutually assured destruction did not exist. The food they consumed transformed them into omnipotent umberhulks just to make sure they could find and destroy everything they didn't like.
I had fun losing. Genuine fun.
But there's a left over niggling injury. It's a sensation of paranoid acknowledgement that if I wanted to experience what the rest of you are experiencing, I would have to play with the intent of winning conflict. Its crippling to the point where I've sat on a stockpile of Dream Coins hesitant to enjoy what everyone else is enjoying. Over a year on the server and the end game content has never been 'my' adventure, I've never played a 'main' character. When I get asked what build I'm doing and the follow up to my response is "I can make it better"; it really scares me how high the bar is for entry. So how do you play then? Why do you level to 30? Do you think gear and levels are important to your roleplay?
When I first got to Amia, I was like level 19, getting ready to go do frost giants. I ported to the brog mountain, and was suddenly subject to a line of questions by some invisible people. As I had ported from A, I had no buffs, and being a -4 str kobold, I couldn't walk w/o a strength buff. I went to cast bulls strength on myself, and was murdered for it with wails of the banshee, as buffing means you forgo your pvp warning, and I found out later, my 'out' was to march unbuffed into a pack of frost giants. At the time, I wasn't built for PvP. I didn't want to PvP at all when I arrived. But that's when I learned, if you arn't built to fight, and don't want to fight, doesn't mean someone won't just come up and push your shit in, no matter how much people say it's not a PvP server.
That 'fight' was pretty much the biggest 'thing' that ever happened to me as a player on Amia. It changed the paradigm. It single handedly changed how I build and play every character on Amia.
Because of that, I learned gear and levels and builds matter. A lot. Otherwise someone can basically kill you anytime they want and there isn't shit you can do about it.
For me... It's not about reaching 30 asap. However; as it stands our server really doesn't seem to work well or 'realistically' with any one who is 'sub par' to this standard. There are those who will constantly tell me my builds 'could be better'. The building meta is strong. Even the gear meta is strong. I was the topic of jokes many times over because I didn't have th 'right' or newest and best gear on my characters.
It became clear to me there is this dissonance between how a PC acts and what the player knows of how well geared they are VS others. You get folks who toss out word of faith just to see if your character is an outsider or not.
As far as my experiences went. Well. I kept being told my concepts weren't 'good' for the setting and I was trying to be 'too special' most often. So, I made Matthew with the intent of playing him with a friend. We didn't much Care about lvling just this neat little concept of giving our characters a memorable way of meeting and rolling with it. It was great and fun at the time... we had lots of time to get to know the ins and outs and the strange little character quirks. no one was worried about lvling. We played our characters and we made very 'Sub par' builds... why? It fit this idea of story telling we wanted to bring to the table. We got involved with plots where we saw our characters could try to offer help and we got a long great for a while. Some folks thought we were lvl 30 when in truth were were only lvl tens simply because of how much roleplay and story we brought with us and how often we tried to participate. Sure we couldn't play the 'heros' but we offered what we could in our own unique ways. And it was enjoyable and fun. Then again people weren't looking to destroy what we made just yet.
Nowadays... It's much more along the sensation of you either 'have to build perfection' 'or else'... Some folks say that rp is end game. I don't think it should be but the stigma of how things are presented enforces this. Our pvp system also enforces this. I feel that this hinders creativity and puts limitations on a great deal many things...
I often find that if I'm playing some one below max lvl it's harder to find roleplay. But as some one who comes from a very Forum and word heavy rp back ground, I crave plot. meaningful and worth while plot. I'm sad to say it's a rarity here... Nothing really seems to be 'worth while', and it's exceedingly ridiculous to attain achievements. Strangely at the same time there's this sense that nothing good ever seems like it was earned.
Conflict can be fun. But it needs a decent basis for me to enjoy it. Lately with Matthew I've found my self being forced in to conflict that.... I honestly do not enjoy. It deals a lot with limitations set in place by an OOC standard. and that... really does ruin it for me. When there's little attachment or 'reason' for the conflict or story behind it I don't enjoy having other pc's up in my pc's face demanding answers. This gets old. Fast. Playing a paladin on this server is one of the hardest things you could do. Especially when others think its isn't hard enough and create 'ridiculous' obstacles and expect you to play through it.
In short it's either optimize and maximize everything or prepare to be eaten alive and told many times-over what you 'should' do to fix it.
I don't agree with this mentality or behavior at all.
I think Roleplay should be an experience of ideas playing off one another that builds an intriguing, interesting story. I think that character concepts need to be meaningful and worth getting to know.
_________________
❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
There's nothing wrong at enjoying these things, and there's no right or wrong mentality of how to RP, there is only RP. Deal with the RP in-character and it's still RP, and you can have fun with it.
Enjoy the videogame as a whole and master it, or not if you don't want to, and just play and have fun.
Joined: 25 Oct 2008 Location: In my own little world.
DukeDublin wrote:
When I get asked what build I'm doing and the follow up to my response is "I can make it better"....
I have never been any good at making strong or power builds so I can completley relate to this. My answer to this was to just make my build based off of the character background and rp. I made my characters build for fun, not for pvp.
DukeDublin wrote:
.....it really scares me how high the bar is for entry. So how do you play then? Why do you level to 30? Do you think gear and levels are important to your roleplay?
I agree that the "bar for entry" is pretty high if you are seeking to make a big name for yourself or to be in the spotlight of any given group rp. You either become a wallflower non-impressive character that few people outside of a select circle even know about, or people target you with all kinds of rp weather you like it or not. But I find that to be part of the fun in Amia personally.
How do I play? I try to either build an rp situation that could possibly draw in more players or insert myself into an existing one where newcomers are welcome. I allow the rp to unfold as it will and just keep the background of my own character in mind to guid my actions. I allow the rp to guide where i go from there. I have made some crazy characters in the past who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag if they tried, though the rp they were in still made them fun for me.
Why level to 30? Simply because the class abilities and gear available to a level 30 can make for interesting rp, but the gear and class abilities changing along the way can in and of itself open rp possibilities. I had actually inadvertently started a small event once just seeking out a gear item for a character of mine and there was a bored DM on. I had been asking other characters ICly is they might know where i could find the item i was looking for or someone who could find it for me. The DM started a mini-quest for us creating things on the fly to help me and the others i had been speaking to attempt to obtain that one piece of gear. It was loads of fun and that character was never considered a powerbuild but rather was almost infamous for dying easily so his friends had to watch out for him all the time. Which i guess also answers the last question at the same time.
Yes I think gear and levels are important to my characters role play. Mainly though just because I tend to wrap my role play around the personal growth of my characters. The levels and gear can reflect that growth sometimes.
Chronos wrote:
... Sure PvP happens, but you don't need PvP build and can easily avoid most PvP situations.
I couldn't agree with you more Chronos. I started playing in Amia back in 2008 and I believe I have only been in any real pvp a total of 10 times. And that includes the time i spent playing a War Knight of Tempus. By real pvp i mean not sparing in an arena but actually having to fight for survival against a fellow player character. A lot of the time it was only PvE and RP.
When I first got to Amia, I was like level 19, getting ready to go do frost giants. I ported to the brog mountain, and was suddenly subject to a line of questions by some invisible people. As I had ported from A, I had no buffs, and being a -4 str kobold, I couldn't walk w/o a strength buff. I went to cast bulls strength on myself, and was murdered for it with wails of the banshee, as buffing means you forgo your pvp warning, and I found out later, my 'out' was to march unbuffed into a pack of frost giants. At the time, I wasn't built for PvP. I didn't want to PvP at all when I arrived. But that's when I learned, if you arn't built to fight, and don't want to fight, doesn't mean someone won't just come up and push your shit in, no matter how much people say it's not a PvP server.
That 'fight' was pretty much the biggest 'thing' that ever happened to me as a player on Amia. It changed the paradigm. It single handedly changed how I build and play every character on Amia.
Because of that, I learned gear and levels and builds matter. A lot. Otherwise someone can basically kill you anytime they want and there isn't shit you can do about it.
This was also a massive breach of the rules, and you are the saltiest of all sea dogs for continuing to hold this grudge or thinking it's actually par for the course on Amia.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Well... since this is coming up, I'll give my experiences. I've played on Amia for.. almost 7 years now. I've had dozens of characters, some got to fairly prominent status in factions and such. I had two that played guards and one that was the Kapten of the Wardens in Wiltun. In all that time, actual PVP... I had maybe... and I mean MAYBE 15-20 incidents. Most of those were as a guard with someone who just wanted to be belligerent.
My first was with... Well, let's just say he's a well known PVP'er on this server. Was on the Brog Mountains and he came up on my little fully buffed Elven cleric and decided it was HIS mountain. He attacked and 20 seconds later was dead. Apparently he'd forgotten that bigby's requires a concentration check. Oh well.
I don't like PVP of that type. It does nothing to promote any plot on Amia. Sorry, but that's my opinion. Now, when we have things like when the Drow were attacking in groups and stealing people? That... that drives storylines. Random, "I am evil, so I killz you now." Is just... well, it's not actual roleplay. It's thinly veiled PVP agitation.
I'm getting off my point. What I'm trying to comprehend is this... how in the nine hells do all of you get into so much PVP conflict? I mean... seriously. I play hours every day and just don't have those kinds of conflicts. And... to settle any qualms about my roleplay, any who have met Tristen, or Killian, or Trey, or Roach know that those characters, at least, don't back down when threatened or cornered, come what may.
Another thing... in all my PVP bouts, I lost... 2. Most of those pvp encounters were with characters using far less than "perfect" builds, had less than 30 levels, and certainly no epic gear.
Also, 'avoiding' PvP usually means taking the union-mandated out, which is literally running from a fight. That has RP implications (cowardice) as well.
Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
Commie wrote:
It was a good wake up call. Some people are here to pick fights and don't care if you just want to RP.
Oh yeah. You know, and these people often use terms like "pvp build" and "gearing up because of pvp".
Just sayin'. Tormy's remark about salty dog was exactly what I had typed in my first post, but then I reconsidered because I did not want to soil my flawless reputation with yet another "don't be mean to Commie" PM.
Everything you wrote in last few hours reeks of salt and desire for pvp (but only if you have the upper hand). At least that's how it appears to me. And I am sure you'll say I'm wrong.
_________________ Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem* Alex - Life is adventure or nothing! Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex. ========= Obsidian (inactive)
I actually go so far to avoid pvp with ppl that don't like pvp that when my assassin gets jobs on ppl i literally ask them if they wanna do an rp assassination using the dicebag, very slowly and RP style with mostly emotes and rolling, or if they wanna do it pvp style. I do this because I know most ppl don't like pvp and I don't want to force it on them.
So far it's been an even split on pvp or rp assassinations.
Frankly in my experience it's all about what you want to achieve. If you want to PvP, by all means, do so at your leisure. With the understanding that yeah, that's gonna require some build factors to do well.
I really don't agree with the "30 and then you can RP" mentality though. If you're not into PvP, you really aren't obligated to engage in in, and it's largely not required even for big RP plots.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
I greatly disagree that gear makes roleplay. That is as simple as this conversation will go. Many seem to share my thoughts, too. It's a fact that you have no need for the best gear in the game to enjoy it, and have your character develop.
Gear plays a factor in Player v. Player and Player v. Monster. Unless your character is a merchant who sales Epic items or non-epic items, then your roleplay shouldn't focus around the ability of a character in combat. I don't know any particular character who has gained "Lord" or "Lady" status through the gear they've got. I don't know a character who has became a "Baron", "King" (Like Whurak!), or Captain of guards because of the gear they've accumulated.
Gear should be considered this: Something you can obtain throughout your experience on the game, but has no factor towards the development of your character. Should you have nice gear for a certain character type? Yes. Should you thrive to better your character's gear? Yes. Does it effect your experience? No. The best thing gear does is help you in DM Events like Wars, or situations where Player v. Player is going to happen. To me, if you seek the "best" of gear, then you're trying to optimize your character's ability to win fights. While I don't disagree with trying to make the best character as possible, I think it's idiotic to focus on RP to get gear, or focus on gear in general. At the end of the day your gear means nothing.
For me, I cannot understand why anyone whines about PvP or even cares about it at all. If you win, nothing happens. If you lose, you wait 2 or 3 minutes, get back up, nothing happens.
Who cares?
No. Really. Why would anyone even care about it? It's a question I cannot fathom as I see all the teeth-gnashing on forums about it. I can't kill you for good. I cannot take your items. I cannot take your money. Who cares?
What irritates me is it's getting into my game-balance.
We've literally just nerfed a metric shit-ton of spells to PvE uselessness purely because of people whining about PvP. Crowd control in one update has become a toothless old man that's laughable because somebody got their feels hurt because they got feared. Now anyone specializing in it gets to sit around and watch their spell slots become ineffectually inefficient as a fear or confuse won't even last long enough to let them kill an encounter without unloading 2 or 5 more of the same.
Wizards and such didn't get "better." They got worse. The only thing they were good at in third edition and NWN (crowd control) got tossed for adding 7 more average damage to blasts. Yes, blasts. Those things you *never* memorize or throw in third edition for a literal handful of reasons. Reasons still not even remotely addressed by spell changes. Fireball, Firebrand and their ilk are *still* garbage and we added a few more 3.5 damage dice to them at the cost of turning mages into *pure* buff dispensers because a 3 to 5 round crowd control spell is a laughable waste of a spell slot.
Do you want to know why blasts suck? Why crowd control and battlefield control is important? Have you ever even played pen and paper? Do you read game forums? If not, google up "Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards." It'll show you why Fireball is *still* trash no matter if you tack on a handful of 3.5 dice onto it. It'll succinctly explain why fear or confuse is important and 4 to 5 rounds of it (lol) is a waste of a spell slot.
But no. Some idiot makes a salty post or 5 about losing a fight and now spell balance for PvE is punched down to a garbage awful low over feelings - not high-level play or numbers crunching and certainly not anything grounded in reality like playtesting.
"Hello Mr. Wizard, hope you didn't mem anything other than buffs. Blasts? Holy crap, those 600 HP monsters will surely be impressed by your 35 damage!"
_________________ Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice
(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)
For me, I cannot understand why anyone whines about PvP or even cares about it at all. If you win, nothing happens. If you lose, you wait 2 or 3 minutes, get back up, nothing happens.
Who cares?
No. Really. Why would anyone even care about it? It's a question I cannot fathom as I see all the teeth-gnashing on forums about it. I can't kill you for good. I cannot take your items. I cannot take your money. Who cares?
What irritates me is it's getting into my game-balance.
We've literally just nerfed a metric shit-ton of spells to PvE uselessness purely because of people whining about PvP. Crowd control in one update has become a toothless old man that's laughable because somebody got their feels hurt because they got feared. Now anyone specializing in it gets to sit around and watch their spell slots become ineffectually inefficient as a fear or confuse won't even last long enough to let them kill an encounter without unloading 2 or 5 more of the same.
Wizards and such didn't get "better." They got worse. The only thing they were good at in third edition and NWN (crowd control) got tossed for adding 7 more average damage to blasts. Yes, blasts. Those things you *never* memorize or throw in third edition for a literal handful of reasons. Reasons still not even remotely addressed by spell changes. Fireball, Firebrand and their ilk are *still* garbage and we added a few more 3.5 damage dice to them at the cost of turning mages into *pure* buff dispensers because a 3 to 5 round crowd control spell is a laughable waste of a spell slot.
Do you want to know why blasts suck? Why crowd control and battlefield control is important? Have you ever even played pen and paper? Do you read game forums? If not, google up "Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards." It'll show you why Fireball is *still* trash no matter if you tack on a handful of 3.5 dice onto it. It'll succinctly explain why fear or confuse is important and 4 to 5 rounds of it (lol) is a waste of a spell slot.
But no. Some idiot makes a salty post or 5 about losing a fight and now spell balance for PvE is punched down to a garbage awful low over feelings - not high-level play or numbers crunching and certainly not anything grounded in reality like playtesting.
"Hello Mr. Wizard, hope you didn't mem anything other than buffs. Blasts? Holy crap, those 600 HP monsters will surely be impressed by your 35 damage!"
This isn't an official DM statement or whatever. This is my honest and personal opinion, as a player to fellow players.
I've had many similar experiences to Commie's first one, since I first got here a few years ago. The only real reason I've never much complained or kicked up a fuss about constantly losing PvP or getting my shit kicked in is because I've always been the kind of person that doesn't like to be a nuisance. I despise more than anything else making my problems other people's problems. I noticed very early on that a scary amount of people don't like to lose.
I've always been that kind of person that easily gives up. I'll wave the white flag in a heartbeat if it forgoes the entire scene afterwards where pink text flies across the screen and we have to call in DMs to mediate. It's honestly, legitimately, came to a point (for me), where Ive begun to play my characters as more of a 'pacifist' sort, or the kind that would stand down, than my earlier characters who thrived on conflict, simply letting people beat the shit out of me when it comes time to throw down. Because to be quite honest ... I'd rather forgo the entire impending mess if I can.
This isn't to say that I won't PvP you if my character has legitimate reason. I will, and have, but each and every time, I expect to lose. When people attack, kidnap, or accost my characters, I just accept the defeat and let it happen. Since the beginning of my time here, I never cared for hunting beyond helping people level, I never cared about gear beyond people helping me through factions, and I never cared about learning mechanics until I became a DM/Dev and it became more relevant as a tool to know in order the help the majority.
People always comment about my crappy gear and I'm just like "yep". Because I expect to lose, I don't really bother to think about my gearset half the time. Though because of the same realization as Commie, I did become more aware of how to build, and how to make solid characters that can at least hold their own. Though again, because of the same "I'd rather not fight" mentality, I've begun to care less about 'mechanically advantageous' builds and just built whatever I think will fit a concept I like.
As an example, I main Desdemona, who's impressive build is 20 Sorc / 10 DD. Yes, cringe all over it. Tell me you can't beat the shit out of that ten days to Sunday.
Though I still, to this day, cannot blame people for making themselves more aware of builds, gear, and levels. Yes, it's daunting to be below level 30 on a server that caters to them. Yes, it certainly doesn't pay to have less powerful builds than everyone else around you. Yes, if you're under geared, people poke fun at your skill checks in events that don't breach 100.
This brings me back to Might-and-magic's point. Who cares? PvP will only ever have a consequence or effect if you make it one. Despite accepting defeat more often than not, I personally make it a priority for these encounters to mean something to everyone involved. Because yes, I realize that allowing people to win may be seen as demeaning the situation, but really, despite my personal dislike for OOC conflict I will still treat the encounter with 100% IC respect. If you kick my shit in, rip off my wings, cut off my ears, drown me in the ocean, behead me, tie me to a tree - it's going to have impact. And I continuously encourage people to do the same.
If we all tried to open ourselves up to more opportunities where the touch of other people's characters on your story - for better or for worse - has a true impact, I think this entire mentality can be soothed into something less extreme.
If RP consequences mattered more, id like to think it would be seen more as an even playing ground. It goes both ways. If I can't have an impact on you, why wouldnt my only concern be making sure I don't get my ass handed to me? If you can't have an impact on me, why would I even bother caring about gear at all?
A perceived lack of consequences is a big one I think. There are people out there who, after 'starting shit' and 'getting hit' either log out as a corpse, or just refuse to let their body get moved until a DM logs on and makes them do it. There's also people that just insist they aren't dead because they have a regen ring, and just get up and walk away later with no assistance from anyone, flat out refusing to acknowledge anything said to them. But most people do deal with the consequences.
Some people just don't 'get it' I think. Why put down 3/4 delayed blast fireballs in a spot, wait for someone to walk over it and almost die, then act surprised and get salty when they kill you instead of laughing about it?
ALSO; People, it's generally REALLY easy to gear outside of a few specific items for a few specific builds. If you want to know how to get 'pvp ready,' seriously, hit me up, because you can hit your target numbers w/o a respec in 100% of the cases I've encountered (literally even ppl who took like 10 skill/epic skill foci are able to hit the required values). If you want to know how to make your build better as well, again, hit me up (or user Gribbo) because we will help you. And no we don't have like a list of 'good builds' to dispense, just tell us what you want your build or build concept to do, and you'll end up with an rp identical build that just has like 100 more hp 3 more CL and 60 more skill points. Because generally that's what happens from our experience.
Next person who quotes treantmonk trying to equate pnp to nwn gets like all my bad tokens. That dude is singlehandedly responsible for the caster archetypes that are only prevalent purely because of how powerful control effects are in dnd (and so, in part, in nwn). Nerfing control effects and giving more credence to evocation and damage effects is only a nerf to wizards in as much as they can no longer cast one single spell to end any and every encounter of their choice whenever they feel like it, even if they don't particularly feel like or it oreven really like that spell.
Treantmonk himself writes these guides as though dnd were a game to be "won", where the dms only job is to kill you as swiftly as possible, and all that matters is the maximum of everything. In nwn, a game very focused on combat, it's very natural that optimization occurs, but eveb then, it's up to us as dms to balance things for both pvp and pve and make as many archetypes valid choices as possible. That does mean making fear not last 6 real life minutes when you extend it, by the way, sorry. That goes a fair bit beyond valid, and way into overpowered. The same goes for a great many other mechanica CC effects that went into nwn with little to no oversight as to what that actually mean for combat situations like the ones that occur in nwn.
In short, fuck treantmonk and the fucking plague he unleashed with his attitude and his guides. Destroy thr paradigm of the "god wizard" every chance you get. It only exists because some spells allow it to happen; spells we have the power to control and fix and change in a massively multiplayer setting that will ultimately make the game more fun, and finally make it viable to have blaster characters, or at thr very least, more viable. I hope he chokes on the paper it would cost to print out every single one of his guides, because the attitudes espoused by his disciples is canceroud, both to the pnp community and to the nwn one.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
What an active thread! I can't keep up so here's a wall with quotes!
Commie wrote:
Because of that, I learned gear and levels and builds matter. A lot. Otherwise someone can basically kill you anytime they want and there isn't shit you can do about it.
Chronos wrote:
Sure PvP happens, but you don't need PvP build and can easily avoid most PvP situations.
Submission to an aggressor directly affects roleplay every time. Avoiding the act of mechanical pvp is there, but there are consequences (like being kidnapped). If the conflict was minor enough for one party to feasibly walk away from on a heel turn, then thats some low tier anarchy you've found.
PassionateShadow wrote:
Nowadays... It's much more along the sensation of you either 'have to build perfection' 'or else'... Some folks say that rp is end game. I don't think it should be but the stigma of how things are presented enforces this. Our pvp system also enforces this. I feel that this hinders creativity and puts limitations on a great deal many things...
RP can exist in a capitalist sort of mentality, everyone should be able to profit but for no one to lose is unreasonable. Build perfection to me is whatever wins you what you want (pvp, rp, whatever), but wanting to lose keeps an artificial balance. Nothing is good if nothing is bad.
Commie wrote:
The nice thing about being a pvp build is that it doesn't hamper your RP in anyway.
I actually disagree with that statement. Tumble dumping, discipline pumping, key feat acquisition all restrict your ability to grab skills that may matter on an RP scale. A character with 8 charisma trying for epic dodge may never rule a city beloved by the people, the same way that charismatic leader won't be winning a fencing competition with the brooding expert.
MisterLich wrote:
I like rp, I like pvp, I like pve.
Roach wrote:
I don't like PVP of that type. It does nothing to promote any plot on Amia. Sorry, but that's my opinion. Now, when we have things like when the Drow were attacking in groups and stealing people? That... that drives storylines. Random, "I am evil, so I killz you now." Is just... well, it's not actual roleplay. It's thinly veiled PVP agitation.
There's a lot of horror stories out there, some of them I've witnessed firsthand. PnP spells, fights happening between people who are in agreeance only for a third party to get upset, even the circle grind where people skip IC so they can be efficient.
Commie wrote:
I actually go so far to avoid pvp with ppl that don't like pvp that when my assassin gets jobs on ppl i literally ask them if they wanna do an rp assassination using the dicebag, very slowly and RP style with mostly emotes and rolling, or if they wanna do it pvp style.
Rolling dice for PnP style pvp is still pvp to me, numbers against numbers just a different flavour. Even a clever poisoned drink is still a fortitude check, gear and levels will change the outcome.
LibrisMortis_666 wrote:
To me, if you seek the "best" of gear, then you're trying to optimize your character's ability to win fights.
A safe way to put it, but to me magic is important to the setting because it affects the entire world. Enchanted garments can fetch you more customers, hiring well equipped soldiers will protect farms more often from raiders. 42 Charisma and 100 persuade makes for a very enchanting diplomat.
MightNMagic wrote:
Do you want to know why blasts suck? Why crowd control and battlefield control is important? Have you ever even played pen and paper? Do you read game forums? If not, google up "Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards." It'll show you why Fireball is *still* trash no matter if you tack on a handful of 3.5 dice onto it. It'll succinctly explain why fear or confuse is important and 4 to 5 rounds of it (lol) is a waste of a spell slot.
But no. Some idiot makes a salty post or 5 about losing a fight and now spell balance for PvE is punched down to a garbage awful low over feelings - not high-level play or numbers crunching and certainly not anything grounded in reality like playtesting.
I for one am glad that the changes went through, PvE was terrible when I would roll a 1 and wait there for twenty minutes while a spider-druid thing picked me apart in the middle of unpopulated territory.
I started on Amia just to try different NWN mechanics. I got into some stupid PvPs which I (or I and party I was in) won. Pretty boring stuff with no real effect or gain. With time I dipped into RP here and it's all so... plush. Most of the time everyone loves everyone. Evil is toothless, boringly direct or so hidden you just don't care. Races love each other, no real rivalry anywhere. Elfs and dwarfs are allies ... meh...
One of the best RP moments I had here was with my tuigan Kossuthian when he met Talas and group around him and offered help... the racial/national distrust between tuigan and rashemen was excellent. Otherwise quite boring...
Gear - lvl - roleplay: I dont see connection really. With changes in lvling when 30 can go with 2 there is no big problem in this area. I simply stroll around and RP when I find someone to RP with, not depending on gear or lvl. Mostly because getting to lvl 20 is fairly easy. And from there it gets slowly into that boring grind of areas and later on bosses for top gear. Personally I dont have any character on lvl 30, mostly because I get tired of that grind and try some different character.
Maybe it's because I play on EU times and I miss out most of the big events. Maybe it's because I refused to be on some skype group. Maybe I just suck at being "good RP player" in here. But this is my experience.
_________________ Zendaer Amattis Torgon Crimsonshade Khalid Athanalo CET time zone
I wholly appreciate the spell changes, especially because of how much different it made playing a caster cleric.
Basically before hand you had earthquake and storm, besides the few domain nukes not every one gets
Now you can rock sound burst, searing light, hammer and all the evov domain spells are even more sick.
Being a blaster wizard is a classic archetype in fantasy and it deserves more love. Nwn affords us that chance and I don't think it should be squandered
Since this is a topic about Gear lvls and RP rather than spell changes I'll stay on topic.
I think an epic lvl enchanter should be able to pursue role-play of domination but I'm having my doubts such is plausible with the changes. Haven't begun testing such yet so I will have to see how this goes.
Loosing is okay. Some times it's fun to play the loosing side. Often times I've found that aggressors tend to want to be as cruel as possible however.
This is fine with me... if there is a reason or precedence for it.
The way things are typically done just isn't my cup of tea and doesn't perk my interest. I suppose that's when it all comes down to taste and preference. Lots of folks say you shouldn't 'plan rp' but turn around and say they have a concept... well... that's what a concept is... it's a plan. It's an intention and a conception.
For me rp must be story drive. The characters must have reason and purpose for how they are, for what they are, and for who they are. For myself, I know my enjoyments heavily on the intricacies of plot, development, conception and breathing life in to a character and making them believable, relate-able ideals. I relish in a character's flaws. Lots of people have a tendency to for go flaws or even go so far as to insult other players who deliberately give a character flaws. I don't understand this stigma. There is a noticeable stigma between character flaws and who's dating who...
No one typically seems interested in getting to know other characters to a deeper degree.
That connection and immersive feel is what I try to look for. This granted. I like to cast my character's in specific roles though I do not like letting them stray from their intended roles.
_________________
❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
I actually disagree with that statement. Tumble dumping, discipline pumping, key feat acquisition all restrict your ability to grab skills that may matter on an RP scale. A character with 8 charisma trying for epic dodge may never rule a city beloved by the people, the same way that charismatic leader won't be winning a fencing competition with the brooding expert.
I had no idea stats were required for role play.
Also cha based raiper/dex blackguards are literally fencing experts with like 20+ cha.
So if I want to be a faction leader I need a lot of charisma? Or people just ignore me when I talk and appoint someone with more charisma to the position?
How much int do I need to do deductive reasoning? What's the cutoff?
How much wisdom do I need to know which direction north is?
I actually disagree with that statement. Tumble dumping, discipline pumping, key feat acquisition all restrict your ability to grab skills that may matter on an RP scale. A character with 8 charisma trying for epic dodge may never rule a city beloved by the people, the same way that charismatic leader won't be winning a fencing competition with the brooding expert.
I had no idea stats were required for role play.
Also cha based raiper/dex blackguards are literally fencing experts with like 20+ cha.
I'm going to just respond to this... you can make a mechanically powerful build that makes concessions toward your RP. My wizard has a positive CHA modifier with saves high enough to resist nearly any spell DC and I even maxed out my appraise skill. Sometimes people take dump stats, and that's fine as long as you role play them.
But, defense of OP's point, it is much, much, much, much easier to make concessions for role play on a wizard than it is for other classes due to the abundance of feats and skill points because of our high INT modifiers. But it is possible to build to almost any concept. At a certain point the actual mechanics of the character will not matter as much as the skill of the player. Lots of people who play shifters can still be killed by Frugdar. You actually need to be good at playing a shifter to be a strong shifter. It's really no different.
Optimization is just something that people who have played for a long time do because they know how to.
But Kobra plays Kurchin and there's a reason no one wants to pvp him >.>
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
So if I want to be a faction leader I need a lot of charisma? Or people just ignore me when I talk and appoint someone with more charisma to the position?
How much int do I need to do deductive reasoning? What's the cutoff?
How much wisdom do I need to know which direction north is?
He's talking about the fact that everyone should be role playing all of their stats, physical and mental. If you have a low charisma but you're trying to play this sly leader of the people, you're playing a character different from what you made mechanically. If your 8 wisdom character is careful and considerate of his decisions and carefully scans his surroundings all the time, that's you as a player dishonestly portraying your character as well.
Mental ability scores exist to do more than give you saving throws and spell DC modifiers.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
I was talking about the absurdity of telling someone they can or can't do something ic due to their mental stats.
Like what are you going to do? Tell someone they need more charisma to hold a position? Tell someone they can't do an experiment because their int isn't high enough?
Dirk had a low charisma score if I recall correclty (though I don't think it was the minimum despite having a -2 racial). Nothing is impossible. But the responsibility should still stand with the player if they want to play certain concepts to portray the ability scores they have honestly.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Since he wasn't "portraying the ability scores they have honestly?"
Things like int,charisma,wisdom are impossible to RP as they are made up number for vague ideas of stats.
If you have ever seen the movie Rain Man look at Raymond (Dustin Hoffman) is an autistic savant, dramatic examples of savant syndrome occur in individuals who score very low on IQ tests, while demonstrating exceptional skills or brilliance in specific areas, such as rapid calculation, art, memory, or musical ability.
Charisma has the same problem as it has to deal with looks and or personality...ect And I'm sorry but I'm going to prove godwin's law right now. Hitler was ugly but he could speak and got people too follow him.... so he would have high charisma, but then if you look at movie zoolander you had super good looking (((for the sake of the movie standpoint))) but total idiots.
So its a invisible slider scale of taking stuff from different parts of whole and moving them around.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
Yes, what was I thinking... Since we cant specify how much of them is needed for very particular handpicked purposes, clearly WIS, CHA and INT are only caster and Save attributes.
/s
_________________ I play: Frums Deedone, the Green Child Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum
Wis is for saves. Int is for skills. Cha is for nothing.
Seriously, I ignore that shit like I do when someone rolls a 121 on 'bluff.' I don't -have- to believe your redic story because you put some points in a stat.
Wis is for saves. Int is for skills. Cha is for nothing.
Seriously, I ignore that shit like I do when someone rolls a 121 on 'bluff.' I don't -have- to believe your redic story because you put some points in a stat.
Great for you. Since you are so active in forums and have not only those opinions but no willingness to listen to others, maybe next time reply here, instead of bothering me ingame via Tells when I am RPing.
edit: Actually, probably my own fault for even replying to a troll in the first place. Lesson learned, again.
_________________ I play: Frums Deedone, the Green Child Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum
All I will say is that the DMs expect you to RP all of your stats. If you have a low CHA, don't go making grand charismatic speeches. If you have low WIS, don't always make smart choices. If you have low INT, you can't know everything.
The responsibility is in the player to be, well, responsible. All people have downsides, and if you dumped 8 or lower in your mental stats, you better reflect that in your RP.
And yes, DMs have said that on the forums many times.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Since he wasn't "portraying the ability scores they have honestly?"
No, Dirk didn't play a charismatic politician or something like that. He played a thug that was moved by money and got into his position mostly by luck. I was using Dirk as an example to say that people with low mental stats can still do things like that. I made two separate statements, one being about Dirk and the other being about players who don't reflect the numbers on their sheet honestly.
Commie wrote:
They are.
Wis is for saves. Int is for skills. Cha is for nothing.
Seriously, I ignore that shit like I do when someone rolls a 121 on 'bluff.' I don't -have- to believe your redic story because you put some points in a stat.
Stats aren't just numbers you use to make your character mechanically. They reflect the sort of character you play, and how they function physically and mentally. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't how D&D works at a very basic level. We've had DMs in the past actually enforce low charisma scores before but with the current state of the team there isn't much of that anymore.
When I have characters with low charisma they're obnoxious or don't deal with people very well. They're bad at addressing things and communicating. Characters with low intelligence are easy to play, and I've usually played characters with low wisdom as impulsive and ill attentive. If mental stats meant nothing they wouldn't exist.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
All I will say is that the DMs expect you to RP all of your stats. If you have a low CHA, don't go making grand charismatic speeches. If you have low WIS, don't always make smart choices. If you have low INT, you can't know everything.
The responsibility is in the player to be, well, responsible. All people have downsides, and if you dumped 8 or lower in your mental stats, you better reflect that in your RP.
And yes, DMs have said that on the forums many times.
Yeah. That's basically what I do. I was just a little 'triggered' when people started saying there was some cha cutoff to be a faction leader.
I was just a little 'triggered' when people started saying there was some cha cutoff to be a faction leader.
No one said that but you, and no one implied it.
DukeDublin wrote:
I actually disagree with that statement. Tumble dumping, discipline pumping, key feat acquisition all restrict your ability to grab skills that may matter on an RP scale. A character with 8 charisma trying for epic dodge may never rule a city beloved by the people, the same way that charismatic leader won't be winning a fencing competition with the brooding expert.
Joined: 14 Dec 2009 Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
He was giving an example, and also said 'may' never rule. It was not a cutoff point for anything, that was your twist on it. Stop taking things literally, that are obviously not meant as such, and trying to argue points based on your lack of understanding.
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