Also I really would like to reiterate that I really want the Drow to keep going and become a major source of continuing conflict. I love the Drow lore and RP, the only reason I personally never played one was because it just want active enough for me. But I want you guys to play and become more active and fight us. It would be awesome. We could have a sort of UD civil war.

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Osiris Masud

That would be awesome. Make this story more than one sided, bring war. Do something about it. Frankly the underdark should be a bed of conflict and strife.

But for the love of god don't complain and moan if you're only going to log in when your position is threatened. This sort of dynamic needs to come to the surface of amia tbh. Shatter the status quo to pieces and draw the battle lines.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

This thread comes a bit unexpected on an RP server everyone should not expect to win all the time or get everything they want. Not liking pvp is no excuse to complain as well. The adhominem attack against pvpers was ridiculous. It is a horrible argument IMHO. Also, it's a game FFS.... If your chr is more realistically perma'd or something then hell role up another drow and take the city back. Isn't this suppose to be fun? I mean if a winning team looses do they take the team that beat them to court or protest?

I dunno but if I had the same attitude I'd find something else to do

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Plays Yoweth'Ssissth Kelia

Pardon me if I'm being a pain, but I just had another question pop into my head and I'd like some sort of clarification.

Yes, it's a RP server and not PVP. No player should be forced into a situation where they must PVP without any sort of out.

Also, given that Amia is not a PVP server per se, does it not then stand to reason that anyone that wishes to have a faction base would be forced into PVP if they want to keep if against any group strong enough wants to take it? While it can be interesting RP in and of itself, having to remain constantly on the run and unable to fortify and live in safety could be a tremendous pain in the rear end for players like me that generally will not PVP.

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Your out was surrender or fleeing the city. If you chose to fight, you chose to fight.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Surrender how? I was given no option, Tormak. That's the problem and I believe I have stated that repeatedly and clearly. One minute I'm standing there and the next I'm getting killed. We had no idea what was coming and there was no parley. I sure surrendered when they killed me seeing as I was dead and couldn't really do anything else.

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To me (and this is just my opinion)

If you want to be in a faction that could possibly have to defend its position pretty much makes pvp a fact of life unless you do default surrender because pvp to ou is somehow beneath you. Also a few other things I've noticed that people seem to have a hard time accepting but to me breaks RP is not being able to accept death of their chr. I'm sure it will happen to mine when she dies and is unrecoverable for some time if not permanently. It's the same as with PVP. Not accepting it or looking down your nose at it for whatever reasons you have really isn't consistent with the full spectrum of RP possibilities. I mean maybe a mercantile faction would be a better fit?

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Plays Yoweth'Ssissth Kelia

Maybe I merely saw nothing as I was slightly late to the gathering (but not to the fight), but it really did look like the notification was 48 hours in advance and incredibly hazy to the point where nobody really knew what to expect. Without relevant history attached it's not too hard to see why people would be blindsided by a PC invasion- it's one of the rarest events on the server and while it may have been 'chat of note' IC in some fashion, a passing-the-torch event seems to necessitate greater detail so that potential defenders can understand the stakes before they show up going "Oh look, invaders."

However I would definitely not say there wasn't 'consent'. Everyone buffed up and got ready, at least whoever was outside. You bit it, that's unfortunate, but Christ on a cracker you were one bolt in a forest of machinery, I think it's reasonable to just let it slide. Besides, being in the UD is, to my mind, a tacit acknowledgment that sometimes your ass is just gonna get ganked.

I think there's plenty of valid criticisms, but too little emphasis on the fact that Drow now have a colossal motivator and some major adversity, both of which massively drive character development. The DMs made some errors, sure, but there's a lot of malice being read in that just isn't evident. Players are forgetting the old maxim "never ascribe to wickedness what can be attributed to simple error" or however it goes. I don't know about the DMs here, but when I got that kind of blowback as a DM it made me really think twice about doing that sort of thing for the players at all.

I suggest everyone who feels any particular anger, rage, or whatever over this to take a couple of days to cool off and come back refreshed.

Or don't, I'll be here with my popcorn either way.

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Therein lies the rub. The Crips will fight the Bloods, the Gaylords will fight the Popes, and the drow will fight anyone. That's all well and good when you're fighting something controlled by a computer; the processor doesn't care that it got killed, that someone had an unfair advantage, or that the rules were broken so long as it didn't cause it to fail. The problem is that, when you add a human element to the other side of it you need to take both sides into account. Human A and Human B expect previously agreed to stipulations, those being the server rules. When one side says, "Wait a tick. I didn't get a chance to back out as I was promised per the rules of the server," they have a legitimate gripe. To have that gripe fail to be addressed except to say that we just have to accept the chips as they fell, no matter how lopsided, makes the person on the other end feel as though they just need to get used to being cheated. BOHICA or GTFO.

Here's the other problem with saying one should just play Faction X: there's an old saying that as long as there are two people in the world someone is going to want the other guy dead. Using your example of a mercantile faction, that's no guarantee of safety in either a fantasy world or the real one. How many times does a convenience store get knocked over by a gang despite not being owned by a member of the robber's opposing gang? Much the same, it isn't hard to find an NPC trader that was killed and picked clean. If the players want to do it to another merchant they certainly can. There's really no way to stay safe under the rules of Might Makes Right.

As to the full spectrum of RP possibilities, no player should be telling another that they are RPing wrong. That is why I have stated repeatedly I think that the players from the dragonkin faction have done exactly as their characters would act; why not take advantage of everything they can? I certainly would. My complaint has consistently been that, from my perspective, the errors were on the DM end. If the summons went off and started attacking they could have paused things and had the summons called back. To allow for the drow group to surrender they should not have spawned the attackers directly next to the drow. If you would notice I took the time to sleep on the issue and address it on the forums, not in the midst of the event. The only reason it remains a problem is that the only DM to say that they understand the problem and make an attempt to address the problems presented isn't even one that was in charge of the event. Instead of the DM in charge taking the issues one by one and addressing them I have not received a direct response to any of the problems I presented and one of the answers directly contradicts what I stated multiple times.

As I said before, I've dealt with players thinking things in a campaign were unfair. In some cases I was able to present why things happened the way they did and we agreed that I was correct. Sometimes I dropped the ball and had to admit it and correct it where I could (and, in a notable case, use the old Evil Twin Brother gag.) The one thing I could not do is be presented with a player who felt something was wrong and fail to address their grievances as they would not come back for more sessions if they felt they or their group were treated unfairly. All I would ask is that, unless I managed to somehow break the game (and boy howdy have I done that and I knew it before they did,) that the player wait to address the problems until after the session was completed.

To be honest I can't be arsed whether Nec stands for the drow or falls to the scaly ones. Things happen and some of those things make it interesting, which this certainly did. All I'm asking for here is a little consistency in how things are done. To say that I could have done A or B to avoid C while not having been allowed to actually do A or B is why I'm irked. I have, in my opinion, remained even in my criticism. All I'm asking for is a direct response to the problems I presented so they can be avoided in the future.

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You showed up and remained in the city with the defenders, after one attack had already occured and crippled the city. That was intention to fight, imho. The onus was on the defender sto parley - it should have already been obvious after that first attack that none was coming on the party of the attackers.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I showed up and remained in the city because I was told shortly before it happened that there was "something" going to happen. Nobody told me that "something" was a conquering force that would attack as soon as it got there. I show up, the green shows up, the rest show up next to me hostile and go on the attack. At what point during that was I afforded the opportunity to back out? They had already killed me without me having the opportunity to say or do anything.

As to the prior attack, it was driven back. To say that we should assume that it was going to be another attack is one way it could be taken; another would be that they came to admit their failure and offer to work together which we could then take or leave. Again, all we knew is that "something" would happen. Staying in character there is no way to know that Player X has gone hostile and it was played that way.

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I actually understand where goose is coming from but I think that the onus is on our players. I know that some of us held our summons back but not everybody did and I know at least a couple people that ran around on the offense immediatelyuppn teleportation, and this is not a mature way to handle an event.

I do not think the DM in charge did anything wrong, but the players failed to communicate and make this a dynamic event.

That said I do think that anybody hostilling before we had at least spoken to the other parry was a colossal misstep on both parties. Drow were hostile to me on teleport and I got timestopped and disjoined. I think both parties jumped the gun.

The two dungeon masters did everything they could to make it a fair fight because we had IC teleported near the temple - it was not an arbitrary decision by a DM, it was an IC battle tactic.

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Osiris Masud

I have to be blunt about this, and this is me saying this because you're spitting fire all over this thread.

This is the most you've ever used the forums, ever. And you logged onto your drow more rarely than I've played mine. But that is not what I'm going to jump on here. The skype thing. I have only ever been able to confer with you either in game or on skype personally, since you have a history of telling me you don't use the forums. I had to brow beat the idea that forums are necessary to faction function a lot before you even started reading this.

You are trying to play this off as some great community of players and active thriving role play. It wasn't. The drow player base didn't just drop the ball, they left the ball there and went away and when they found out someone else was allowed to have the ball this thread came.

I will admit that communication about this event probably wasn't amazing and could have been drastically improved upon, but there was next to no activity from the drow community in the first place prior to this. You cannot communicate with people who are not playing, that is a fact. And you personally do not play your drow. Logging on once a year to hold your spot on the board when it's threatened is something that frankly ought to meet the sort of response it did. It is not behavior that should be encouraged and the people who do it are only preventing the people who want to establish themselves from having fun by establishing that they are there and they are unimpeachable because it would be rude to impeach them.

So yes. The nonexistent drow player base didn't really get a huge flashy warning. There was nobody to warn.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Let's back up a second there, Rob.

You're right, I don't lurk the forums regularly. Part of that is holding down a full time job on top of outside of work commitments. You also know me well enough to know that when I'm sitting in game I'm usually doing eight other things in the background. Anyone that's talked to my players and met silence knows this. And yes, Skype is a lot easier to use to reach me as it hits my phone as well as my PC and makes a sound so I know when I'm being paged. The problem is that I also wasn't the only one to receive notification solely in such a manner.

As for logging into my drow for the event you have me dead to rights. I was in the middle of making dinner and got a message that something was going down and decided to pop in. That is immaterial, really. If someone is away for a while on a character the rules still apply to them the same as if they were on every hour the server was up.

And no, Rob, I never tried to play it up as some great community. I'm not sure where you read into that, but in no way shape or form do I believe it was stated or implied. I say enough things that will get me in trouble in life and don't need misunderstandings or words put in my mouth.

As to the communication, if that is the one nit you want to pick with what I said you need to take both ends of it. The issue lies not just in being told that there was an event but anything about the event. Not only was it kept vague, but communication during the event was minimal on the side of the defenders. I get that part of that is that we had just suffered a setback, but the entirety of the matter was just there being some sort of cloud and then a bunch of hostiles dropped directly on us. The UD is known as a place that is distrusting and always has ears to the ground and eyes behind every shadow. That they just suffered a major attack should make them even more paranoid and if the numbers weren't there to support the usual spying it should have been communicated. The entire thing was run in a very slapdash manner from our perspective.

This again also does nothing to address the other points that I made and questions that I raised. When you have hostiles dropped on you like that and you start getting attacked by pets or players you react. There was no time between when they showed up and when we started getting attacked for me to even put my fork down. Everything broke down that quickly. I'm not saying that this was a conspiracy and have repeatedly said that this was possibly oversight or error. Go back to my point I have made about the DM in charge needing to address the issues that are raised; so far answers have been selective and laconic and the majority of it has not been addressed except by players, including players like you that weren't even there.

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Apologies, I should have been more specific, but I did not want to point out anyone. The remark made was not directed at you, all I have seen was that you've been very active in the area you operate in. Yet, the consequences you speak of are only on your DM status, however, the consequences players face are usually always IC ones. Longer period of inactivity their place gets ruined, one way or another. Dm longer period of inactivity the place does not move anywhere and the next thing picking activity up tends to almost always do with something negative. A monster coming to kill all that is immune to almost all spells and high resistances or etc... etc.. for example.



This would decrease much of the issues raised, in my opinion. While the past can't be changed, perhaps it could be learned from by those moving onwards?

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

I might as well list my major takeaway from how this was handled.

In future, perhaps formal warnings from the DM team to persistently inactive PC communities/factions that they will be put in the expendable category if they don't pick up their game on the activity front? If the players care enough as much as they claim, then they will pick up the slack.

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This is the Shrine of Eilistraee all over again, just... with different drow.
Kenlyls disappeared and Zau'anas wanted the Shrine, so they seized the opportunity, and made a play. People got butthurt ooc over it, and in the end, a solution was handed down by the DMs. Then they all disappeared... again. The dormant Shrine grew over, and some of us started to help restore it, when Rith'tar wanted control of it. They also seized the opportunity and succeeded. That did not last long when Kaithan came a callin', and took it all away from them. All their RP, and stuff all these people had put valued time into, was basically gone too. All these events generated a shitton of RP, across the server, and internal conflict was the name of the game. But damn, if this thread isn't a repeat of that, what is it with you drow? It seems obvious to me, that drow were made to be taken over and controlled.

I'm truly sorry it went down the way it did, and I have comments both for, and against, many of the issues presented, but in the end it's a persistent world RP setting, and use it or lose it. I used to have Crow stand around the forest or the Dale (when it was a dead zone) for hours, and see no one. I still do it. I know several Players that have done the same, because their characters would be there, or do that. It's boring as hell, I know this, so I found things to occupy my characters' time if he's alone. If your character has some kind of position, then try and log in once in a while, even if nothing is going on, at least you can say that you did not abandon your post, because if it appears as though the post (or faction, or whatever, you know what I mean) is abandoned, someone else will want it, and likely take a grab at it.

As was stated previously, The server can use this as a springboard for refreshed RP in the UD.
Y'all have fun now kids, play nice.

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Stood around for hours as an as a glorified flag for your faction?

Yup, done that. Never again. EVER.

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I have a lot of personal opinions on this, but honestly most of them are irrelevant and primarily based on this event reminding me of the fact this is the fifth time a drow location has been evicted of drow. It seems there's literally no other locations or races that have constantly been uprooted in server history like the drow have. I don't know if it has to do with the fact drow have shuffled DM hands so constantly, but that's true for most places without any real active DM. It's pretty understandable to me there are some people confused by this and the single vague OOC warning. In the past, DMs and players have gone through extensive lengths to warn and notify everyone OOC about any attempts to seize stuff (most importantly cities or faction areas characters would be living in day to day). The opposite case has happened plenty, too, with little notice, which usually resulted in similar discussions afterwards.
Granted, I feel this event may have been viewed differently for a few reasons possibly explaining the small amount of OOC advanced warning about possible battles or whathaveyou.

What I feel is wrong is trying to imply that the reason Nec'perya was allowed to be taken was because of the drow's inactivity. Without going into how much work they put into setting their city up at the start, drow have always had issues of getting stuff done with the DMs. They've gone through DMs faster than any other faction and for a while didn't have a DM at all. Of course they weren't doing much in their new city with Dusty gone when he was supposedly continually going to return shortly but things kept delaying him. The drow are often left sitting on their hands, as it's impossible to predict when a DM may or may not return and communication issues of not knowing what you need a DM for and what you don't. I do agree with a lot of stuff others are saying, in particular lore reasons but what's done is done. Hopefully my pessimistic fears are completely unfounded and the drow player base finally re-surges again. No one should take this event as an insult as the team is honestly only doing what they think is best for the activity of the server.

Now I am very happy at the ideal of not letting characters sit around in leadership positions while they don't log in for ages. That has always been a huge issue for drow as much as a huge issue for the entire server. Yet many surface cities have impossible to breach protections and even fighting on their lands have gotten PCs perma'd before, much less in the middle of the city. Different old faction areas sit empty because new members can't access anything and old members aren't around or block them out or new factions aren't allowed to move in for whatever reasons. If this event is setting a precedent for this kind of thing not being allowed to happen anymore and ALL cities more open to actual attack attempts then I am totally and completely thrilled for this, my lore reservations be damned.

In regards to the shrine at least all of the infighting were drow mostly in the same faction disagreeing on management until the end there.

EDIT: One thing I'm confused about, what defines a "city" and what defines a "faction" anymore? The rules seem to keep changing on that and I can never remember. Whatever does define them they should both be just as "take-able" in theory. A lot of confusion for me personally on how the event went down is that I recall DMs saying in the past cities can't just be taken over (especially via pvp) as a rule.

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I've been told by DM's multiple times, that attacking Kohl or Cordor or Wiltun with any amount of PC's on your side will end in loss. Those are unapproachable multi-area large-military city-states that will have the resources to crush any PC uprising. You need to have the power of plot, to take them out or subdue them. Much like Dirk did with West Cordor.

Smaller settlements like Bendir Dale, Wharftown (possibly?), Nec'rpya, Endir's Point, and similar, are all pretty much up for grabs if you have the resources to actually conquer them. Though, Bendir Dale being the favorite spot for people to hang out (and them basically having Kohlingen on speed dial for any mischief,) they're basically Kohlingen and thus unapproachable. Endir's is also basically occupied by the Council of Evil or some shit, so expect stern competition there as well.

Honestly if you want to go sack a city? My bet would be on Guldorand. Cut off teleportation over there (bring a cleric to cast Forbiddence), kill the cart driver, and your only issue would be a messenger pigeon or some shit getting word of the attack out. Take over the mountain city without anybody ever finding out. And set the bridge on fire so that no villager can escape. Done. Guldorand is 100% conquerable.

Arrange with DM's and make it happen IC

If I wasn't part of the group that literally just sacked Nec'rpya, I'd actually make a Drow at this point because there's intrigue that goes beyond "Matron X of house Y said I was a bitch! WE SHALL SLAY THEM"

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Osiris Masud

Alright so there are a few more things I wanted to say. Not in regards of why the NPC were handled as they did and if people were buffed or not, not because I am ignoring it but simply because I wasn't there so I do not know and will have to let those comment who actually were handling the NPC.

First off, I am aware the drow had it bad on Amia several times. I wasn't personally a fan of how the Ultrinnan destruction played out nor the one of the first city that was built afterwards. However, one thing I would like to point out is this:

The city made for the UD and people to RP was L'Obsul. Had anyone tried to conquer L'Obsul I prolly would have given them a stern warning this likely won't end well for them. Now a few people did not like L'Obsul, which is fine. There would have been a possibility to change a few things but that wasn't all that wanted because what some bothered the most was that it is a city where you can meet a lot of UD races. That was not wished but rather a place just for drow and also a place just for specific drow with very high standards (Faith, specific role in community etc.)

Which is fine. It is cool to do something that means to maintain a very specific lore stance. However it comes with the downside that actually is very realistically the weakness of the drow (lore wise, not player wise) and often enough the weakness of evil factions in general. Hells even factions in general. The more yoi isolate yourself from others the more youf ace the issue of "standing alone".

Additionally (I can assure you of that as a faction leader for 9 years now) it also makes it even harder to keep a place running. You need players who fit that very specific critera and stay interested in it.

The Grove would probably long be dead if Malandria would run it as a classical D&D Grove. Which means only druids. No rangers, no nature clerics, no master scouts with a love for nature, no shapeshifters who are still rooted in the nature path. Just... druids. And not even all druids of all faiths.

While such a thing likely would still be a lot of fun and amazing RP, I am fairly sure it would ebb away latest after a year.

If Barak Runedar were to say we only allow Shield Dwarves now and they have to be either a cleric of a dwarven god, a dwarven defender or (insert 2-3 more classes) they would mayve have half the players they do if even.

If Stormwind would say... fuck that I am a green I only allow green blooded around me. Or hey I am a half, screw those lesser bloods I tolerate only half dragons by my side... well she probably would be sitting alone in a cave right now with 1-2 more people if lucky and hoping noone finds her to murder her.

Lore wise drow are very strong and that is why people fear them. Yet lore wise it is also their greatest "weakness" that they often stand alone and even against eachother.

The drow did a great job in taking that city back then and making it livable with some very excellent RP, I saw some of that. It is just a concept harder to maintain, especially when a few key players leave.

24/7 for construction RP was related to that as I have been told that you guys had issues to keep rebuilding the place with Dusty on a break. If that is truly the case than it would be very sad because it really could have been any DM or just keeping us informed via screenshots to keep tidying up that place.


Now to the "being a faction flag pole" just as an aside from my own experience, it sometimes actually helps. You stand there alone for a bit sure, but often enough when you do people notice "hey there's someone there" and log on. And the next day people are like "hey yesterday around that time I saw people RP there, I'll check it out".

I sometimes log into a half-empty server with noone even near the forest. Then I have to run to the washroom real quick and come abck and suddenly 5 people stand around me and I am like "wtf just happened I was gone like 3 minutes".

It usually takes one to make the first step! If everyone just thinks noone is there right now so it is not worth it noone will come either!


And as a last mention to the warnings: We do try to warn people. There have been events in the past where people have not been warned. Several. I fell victim to that myself even before. It sucks. Hence why we try to do it when something big happens (and did here) too. Now there is a fine line between warning to reach the people who should know and not screw them over and warning so people who have not really anything to do with Amia and that area anymore bring out their alts to flex some muscle. Something which I have seen specifically in another city done far too often.

When it comes to specific players involved in a plot and them not being told it continues, that also sucks. It is however far easier to happen unfortunately than it is likely that someone forgets to announce a big event. For several reasons from 1. simply forgot who was all involved 2. new DM, didn't even know who was all involved 3. the situation just made it IC reasonable for the plot to continue because another player or several players also involved spontaneously did something and the DM rolled with that and helped them along and while some where on at the time not all where on.... and things alike.

And I also would like to officially say, I do not hate anyone, I am not biased against anyone. I don't even know most of you enough for either one or the other, with a few exceptions of people who I actually met (And still don't hate). Are there RP concepts I like more than others? Sure. As everyone else I have things that flow more on my line than other things. However if I truly run into something that isn't something I can relate to properly then I just abstain/pull back and let someone else handle it. As you likely will see or already have seen every now and then in requests or in posts I simply do not comment. (Which doesn't mean every single thread I do not reply in is something I cannot relate to, there is of course also the possibilty I did not see it or forgot to post or simply have nothing to say that hasn't been said already!)

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Thanks for the response Amarice. That does clear out matters in some aspects. I do hope that commincation and contructive communication would become stronger in future. Sure it is challenging with various matters considering and timezones on top of that, yet something that can be strived for.

Alltogether, a good response. Thank you.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

Just a view from another perspective, with Nec'perya's given state, it was honestly difficult to justify advancement without a DM and RL conquered Dusty and rightfully not many other DM's wanted to step in and potentially make a bad call on something.

Consider for a moment, that people spent years of real time building in paranoia, a defense, with a leadership that ordered a halt on drow raids, planning secrecy, defenses including a golem which people actually did the work for, and even a globe around the leyline stone. But it just seems like a sandbox that expired on a OOC timer, or something. Being evil, and having had actually much worse things happen in the past, and given the previous massive permadeath event from the aboleth attack before this one, I don't really mind what happened here, but it does kind of remind you where your time goes.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Just a flat, quick, simple interjection because I keep seeing the existing defenses of the city come up; we do all realize that our characters are realistically the only level 30s in the module right?

People keep underplaying this, and it's not just here. PC defense/offense is, always has been, and always will be, the ultimate final word; and the only reason cities like Kohlinghen and Tarkuul even have a chance is because they actually do have NPCs of max level (still not that many) and defenses set up by people that are: 50% of what the voice can do is literally the result of ancient archmages of nethril that had magic so powerful it literally isn't allowed by Mystra anymore.

Even when a city is like Necperya was and matches an invading PC force sixty to one. It's that simple. It has to be. Nobody else is adventuring, and Cordor outright hates adventurers for crying out loud. Somewhere it needs to be made obvious that there are no level 30 NPCs. Frankly, we should be grateful for it too. How many times have monsters attacked Kohlinghen? I have had three since I have been here. Nobody ever worries they'll win, and rightly so -- after all, they're level 18 at best.

How about that island wide famine nobody seems to care about, or those raise dead scrolls we sling around like hot cakes that are literally as expensive IG as a full suit of articulated plate armor but we consider pocket change everyone has?

A commoner of any race is always level 1, and not of an adventurer class -- so they have 1 skillpoint a level and no feats. A drow commoner (which is what most of this very small refugee city of 500 tops was) is going to be a whopping ECL 3, and no matter how tactical they are isn't logically going to throw themselves at the force that is buttfucking their matrons without lube. Especially since it's lolthite culture which means someone dying will improve your status one way or another.

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Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers

Oh trust me, there are NPC far beyond lvl 30. But that are selected NPC not your random guard.

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"Select" aka ones whose sole purpose is not letting this thing happen to other cities? Yep. Further comparing a drow city with even just it litteral massive spiders the fact that any attack should be happening in darkness using poisons traps magial and mudane and for the simple fact that Lolth is not the type of god to let a city get killed without offering aid to any priestess who might have actually sought it.

Add to this what sound like some rather lore breaking use of mechanics due to ignorance DM side of important factors about both drow, their cities and defences and just the functional mechnics of the UD itself (teleportation for one thing) and it sounds like DMs who really didnt research enough allowed this to progress because of "RP" and in doing so eseentially allowed a portal in stompfest with "appropriately leveled" NPCs likely just being spawned in as small groups repeatedly.

Something that poorly represents what should actually be needed if just trying to brute force take a city.



Further you now have a situation where you have allowed an active faction to be in and contolling an area that REQUIRES some form of DM coverage if for proper Lore knowledge if nothing else with frankly it not sounding like you have any DM cappable of hanndling that at the moment. Overall I seems poorly thought out beyond what happens one uou take a city, such as how a small handfull of PCs who are not always all going to be online and in the city can effectively garrison a hostile city filled with hostile natives who speak another language and want to see you dead. All while surrounded by other enemy creatures and likely having killed trade to the city in any attack(s) like this.

All of these are basic logistics that are immersion breaking as all hell especially when I know for a fact that they are things the Drow have had to deal with while being UD natives.

There's an elephant in the room and a turd in the punch bowl.

That is that I can say with almost a fact that this thread nor the vitriol being spewed in the Role Play Praise thread would not even exist had the Chromatic Covenant had lost the battle. Saying that the game is broken, blaming DMs, doing everything to try and not look like sore losers is in actuality doing the opposite. This should not exist.

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Plays Yoweth'Ssissth Kelia

Calm down guys.

What Equalizer was essentially saying, is that the guys that decided to take over Nec'perya, don't seem to know anything about its lore. Example being, have you guys done any RP researching how to teleport deep underground, into an area with strong and unique faerzress emanation?

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Mark it zero!

I am not really sure that is appropriate for them to share with you. That is IC information and it should stay there. I understand your concerns but we are crossing a line if we start informing everyone OOCly what this rather well known group is doing.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

...

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Xarzith- Whitescale, exile of the Reghedmen. (Missing Some Scales)

pcs on amia arent 30, ask tormak

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I thought NPCs are mostly above 30, as they often represent the force of the location ( aka one soldier Npc = thirty soldiers and so on)

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Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)

If I recall, two of you actually weren't there for the attack, so you can't really say they had no plan or background knowledge of the Underdark.

I am not sure it is something I can say, but it seems pretty obvious they were backed by Zau'tar for this invasion. If the Zau'tar official who visited before the invasion had the right item on them, when they arrived under peaceful pretenses, it's well within belief they would be able to teleport past the faerzress.

EDIT: More importantly, rather than teleport, didn't you guys just FLY in?

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What did Maverick just say, duderino.

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Xarzith- Whitescale, exile of the Reghedmen. (Missing Some Scales)

If we're going by word of mouth in the Underdark, this is pretty much public information.

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Perhaps, but it would be more proper to find out more IC, then speculate about it in OOC threads.

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Xarzith- Whitescale, exile of the Reghedmen. (Missing Some Scales)

Preferable, yes. But a good deal of these complaints are coming from people who aren't logging on in-game.

And as long as I am just speculating, then there is no problem, is there?

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That's kind of the crux of it, no?

Anyways. I am done here... I'm not posting here anymore. This thread is pretty done to death, it has mostly served it's initial purpose anyhow. The DM's have weighed in, they've all said pieces, as have those, that were there. I apologize for my tone, for the most part.

Salut.

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Xarzith- Whitescale, exile of the Reghedmen. (Missing Some Scales)

You ue the leylines, because the Faerzress does not affect the Ley. I am saying this OOC because anyone who ahs ever used their portal wand in the Underdark locations of the server knows this with firsthand experience, no research needed.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I still have yet to receive a response to all the points I laid out in my earlier posts from the DMs involved. I humbly request they respond to my earlier posts, point by point.

Love,

Goose

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I sit alone 'cuz I'm missin' you, but it's still alright to smile...
Have a little patience, Goosie!
Be nice, and you might get your answers.
I told you kids to play nice, don't make me stop the car.

*gooses Goose!*

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Oh Crowbert, I have been nice.

When I'm not being nice it's not hard to tell. Trust me.

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viewtopic.php?f=148&p=1411125#p1411125

For anyone interested about the new UD. Let us show them drows are not easy to take down.

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Reynard d'Aubernon - Retired
Balaeyi Elandinai Haeren - Active
Jaezred Kilr'ae - Active

You got your answers, they just weren't the ones you wanted.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Rereading through this I fail to see the answers to what I asked from the DMs involved. Perhaps you can readdress the points and the answers you provided. I admit that I can be a bit thick at times so it may lie on me but as the point of being a DM is to ensure a fun and fair environment for all players I don't think I'm out of line in requesting clarification and detail.

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OK. Could you provide a summary of what you asked? I read through your posts and maybe I am an idiot, but it does feel like your stuff was addressed - if not specifically, in a general addessing manner as DMs involved went over what occurred, how it occurred, and why it occurred.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Questions/concerns below with my commentary between each.

1) Was there adequate notification for both sides of something going on?

Asked and answered. I can live with it even though I would have preferred more than two days notice to make sure we could have people involved as well as they did.

2) Did both sides have a chance? 3) Did both sides have fun?

Combining these two because, from my take, they tie together. From the looks of it, getting a fully buffed party dropped on our heads didn't really provide an adequate chance to RP anything for the players on the drow side and interact with those involved. They simply showed up and commenced to slaughter and there was no chance to retreat, surrender, or do anything but stand there and get swarmed; that's understandable with NPCs but to do it to PCs shows a lack of respect for the person playing them. The drow side was vastly outnumbered but they were also on their home turf. The playing field could have been leveled just a bit to give us more than a cameo appearance in an event in which we were involved.

4) Why isn't there more UD involvement?

This can be taken two ways. As for the event, I believe that is addressed above. As far as I know none of us are filthy rich people that are also shut-ins and I would assume many involved have work, school, kids, dates, and the like. A little more notice could have given people time to arrange a night off from our other responsibilities. We might have still been stomped but it would have also given people a chance to ask for another time/date that would work. Remember, this wasn't a PC group attacking NPCs that don't have outside lives, but them attacking an area inhabited by actual people. Keep in mind that this also fell on a weekday at a time of day where we are asking people in Europe to be awake in the middle of the night and Australasians to be there in the middle of a normal workday. If such an event is as server-changing as this was it should have been arranged for a weekend at the outset or the implications made more clear than saying that "something" would be happening.

The other way this can be taken is for why the UD player base has fallen apart. Again, I understand that real life gets in the way and I can't hold Dusty to blame for having something to do besides DM for the UD. In the event where something like that happens it would behoove both the players involved in the area and the DM team to have someone adopt the mantle on a temporary basis and try to provide some manner of continuity. Add to that that you had one of the DMs involved also have a drow PC, thus taking out one additional hand that could have been involved.

5) Why was there so little DM notification for what was going on on the drow side?

The drow players really got very little notification of what was going on. We got notified that there was a cloud that appeared and then a bunch of people popped out of it and the slaughter began. As I understand it, not counting those playing characters there were two DMs involved in the event. I understand that something involving a big group can be a pain, but to pay what appeared to be the majority of attention to one side over the other didn't allow us to have much involvement in an event; we were simply a speed bump on the way to their takeover.

6) It would behoove both the players and DMs if it was explained that the attackers were ported on top of our heads because of X, the reason why there were few other defenders was Y, and the reason Lloth didn't strike down those that defiled her temple were Z.

This is something that Dusty addressed only in saying that it would be hard to explain IC during the event. I understand that and that's why I waited to ask questions until the day after. At that point we still hadn't had that addressed on the forums or IG and the parts of that remain unanswered. I get why they were portalled where they were, but as it caused the attack to happen immediately it would have been smart for the DMs to plan for this ahead of time and warn the attackers and defenders to hold their pets and pause things if they saw them charge to allow for both sides to say they were ready and engage in some sort of RP with each other before all hell broke loose. Add to that that any priestesses in the temple should have been clamoring loudly for their deity to bail their asses out on an attack on their temple but that was apparently not done or done in such a way that we had no way of knowing.

Also, how abundantly clear was it that there was simply no more defenders willing or able to come to aid? It was said IC that at least one ship got away. Nothing was said as to forces available beforehand and allowing that to be augmented. Part of this again falls on the DMs available appearing to spend more time with the attacking group than the defenders, which would be fine as long as the defenders weren't players. We were really in the dark as to what we had aside from each other, and if that was all we had it should have been clearer than it was.

7) This is a new point, and something that came up in conversation after the event. There is a question of DMs being involved in major events for groups with which they often play when they go player side. It's one thing to play with some folks and go DM side to delevel someone because they borked a feat selection; that impacts one player. It's not such a big deal to have a DM run a minor adventure for a group of their friends that doesn't impact other players that are on then or will be in the future. It is another matter to have a DM that regularly plays with a group run an event for that group when that event impacts areas used by other players or other players themselves. I get that some players are more active than others or run a group that is more in line with what a DMs player characters may wish to do and they may find themselves on player side interacting with them more, but in the event that something that group wants to do has as wide-ranging an impact as this did and with other players being involved it makes sense from a point of propriety for any DMs that are involved with those groups in more than a very passing way to recuse themselves from said event. If anything it would prevent any sort of bad blood or feelings that a DM is just helping their friends at the expense of others.

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I'm going to agree with both Goose and CCL here. A DM shouldn't be running an event for a faction they themselves have characters in. Whether it introduces bias or not, it's just not right.

It's issues like this that caused me to leave in the first place in addition to other OOC stuff from other players. It disheartens me that I've returned just to see the same things happening again.

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Agreed.

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Success is a stale finale.