AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Fermentation is so much cooler though.

Don't just magic your way out of it.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Fermentation is so much cooler though.

Don't just magic your way out of it.

Damn kids and their reliance on magic for absolutely everything. *waves cane*

Could be something of an alchemical powder to give it the fizz.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Fermentation is so much cooler though.

Don't just magic your way out of it.

Imagine telling a wizard player to not use magic.

You never specified a character :roll:

Even Mystrans believe in the reserved use of magic. And if your character is worth their intelligence score, they'd be able to figure out a way without using magic anyway.

(I know, I ask a lot of questions.)

Is it out of the realm of possibility to request magic damage on weapons? (I know you can add the other elements, not magic though.) I've got a cool idea on how I can do it, but I'd like to know if it's feasible first.

viewtopic.php?p=1380973#p1380973 <-

(and the answer is yes)

...Wow, I should really learn how to read. (Makes me wonder how I'm getting through college.)

Thankee Tarnus.

How do I get to make the Portrait Changer work properly?

Well, would be good to know what your issue with it is first, because generally all I can say is "do what it tells you", which I presume is not very helpful!

The first thing I generally say is to make sure you include any underscores, including ones at the end of the filename (but not the "X, L, M S, T" suffix.), as well as ensuring that you do the exact text - caps and small letters exactly as the filename.

sometimes they have plenty of stuff before them, like po_drg_red_

and it needs every underscore and the po_ bit at the beginning.

When playing the Dragon Disciple, when do we need to contact a DM to apply dragon type specific changes?

I have one level of the class, and then realised I needed to request things.

Depends on what it is you have in mind. If its just adjusting your type and its one of the standard ones listed in the class modification page, that can be done at any point without a request as soon as you have your first dd level, just hit up a dm ingame.

Thank you!

If your dragon type has a fire breath weapon/immunity, you don't really need to change it until you get wings. So no rush to it!

Yar, what Jes said, you can continue on to level, just don't go around using your breath if it differs until you've found a dm to change it for you.

Ahh! Also good to know, I didn't know if it stalled the class benefits until you'd chosen your destiny. :3 Thanks.

99% sure here that, unless you want to be a red dragon disciple, you need to have your character within one step of your dragon-type alignment.

Also if you want to be a red dragon disciple.

Last edited by Pathfinder on Tue, Nov 08 2016, 16:59 PM, edited 1 time in total.

She's Chaotic Good... So... That's... good!

Turns out Brass Dragons are considered the most benign of metallic dragons. Yet they also:-

'If an intelligent creature tries to leave without engaging in conversation, the dragon might force compliance in a fit of pique, using suggestion or a dose of sleep gas. A creature put to sleep may wake to find itself pinned or buried to the neck in the sand until the dragon’s thirst for small talk is slaked.'

Now I can see the whole, 'I don't intend to hurt you so it's just fun for me' angle. But, I'm pretty sure abduction is considered bad. :lol:

Yup, CG for a Brass is a go! Also, I recall the other day you tried to choose Bahamut as your deity... just remember, you can't officially, according to our deity system. That one step rule, it's a bitch sometimes, but.... that just means you can't use the pray function, which has a chance to fail anyway. If you're not a divine class, it has no other effect.

I was thinking about that and I don't think Bahamut's a very Caermoi deity regardless. She'll probably choose Io, if I can track down the shrine.

Might make for some good RP.

Jes wrote:

Also if you want to be a red dragon disciple.

No i mean, you COULD be a Paladin, LG, take RDD, just never request anything for that character ever, but get to be a LG red dragon disciple paladin.

Nothing is actually stopping you, you get red wings and fire by default.

I don't see the DM's going all Soul Reaver on you.

I mean, I think it's the RP and lore that would stopping someone from doing that, though. I can guarantee DMs would likely step in at that point. Haha.

It's the default nwn class, it doesn't have an alignment restriction.

But let's go to the judges!

Judges! Would a LG red winged paladin get anything other then sneers from the DM team?!

Umm, as a Paladin? I'd think that would be a fall. I see your point, and if the team -wouldn't- do something according to our current rules, I do think a new rule should be enacted, as that's obviously not in the spirit of what the DD changes are meant to be. Though, in all honesty, I don't see anyone who researches the class (DD) and is interested in roleplaying it actually doing that.

I guarantee they would do something about it. They've done it before.

That Guy wrote:

Umm, as a Paladin? I'd think that would be a fall. I see your point, and if the team -wouldn't- do something according to our current rules, I do think a new rule should be enacted, as that's obviously not in the spirit of what the DD changes are meant to be. Though, in all honesty, I don't see anyone who researches the class (DD) and is interested in roleplaying it actually doing that.

Oh yeah it's a terrible idea. No argument there.

Yes, a PALADIN tapping into an evil bloodline would indeed be insta-fall. <.<

Also, if you're a DD, you can be in one step of the alignment.

Does that mean you actually have to act like the base alignment? Let's say I make a DD based on a neutral evil dragon, but i'm TN. Can I just act TN? Or do I actually need to slant evil?

Generally accepted and actually DM approved lore says the more levels in DD you take, the more you will act like your ancestor. That's a lot of wiggle room for interpretation, but, I'd think if you go past 10 DD levels, you should get an alignment change, but, that's just my opinion.

Here's the link to our official lore and rules for DD: viewtopic.php?f=103&t=69066

Yeah. I honestly don't even know what I'm asking, alignments are so blurry.

I mean, what do you do, wake up in the morning, get some coffee, stretch your wings and say, "you know I'm just not being evil enough, lately."

There was a red disciple once who would say something along those lines. And then go kill somebody. xD

So possibly! Alignments are surprisingly broad.

True enough, but... and this is just my thinking and opinion here....

If you choose to play a DD, you are taking on the personality traits of your ancestor. I'm not talking about the arguably cheesy dip of 2 or 4 levels, I mean going 10 or more DD levels. To me, that's your choice to play a Disciple of that dragon type and bring out those characteristics. To enhance, say... Brass Dragon blood intentionally through a dozen or more rituals and roleplay being a quiet antisocial type, to me, is not in line with the class. DD's are unique, because upon taking those levels, you are accepting a personality change, and, in one sense, taking a side in an eons old war. The old Metallic versus Chromatic. Over time, they will hate each other, that's the lore. Now, does that mean kill on sight? I don't think so, but, as many people will turn a derisive sneer toward a palemaster or tiefling? That's how I see my metallic viewing chromatics. There's an air of suspicion and mistrust, though, depending on the dragon type, the level of hostility will change.

In short... there's a lot to playing a DD, and I keep learning new things all the time. Just a few months ago? I had no idea. So, thank you to the people who helped me to learn, and explore this unique class and the changes we have to it on Amia.

Yeesh. I just find the grid so confining. I'd make everything not-divine true neutral if I could.

Hell, Pitt/Drax almost ended up with the Kohl Patrol before someone else stepped in. Imagine how that would have gone.

Commie wrote:

It's the default nwn class, it doesn't have an alignment restriction.

But let's go to the judges!

Judges! Would a LG red winged paladin get anything other then sneers from the DM team?!

I would Fall any chromatic paladin/sorc/Disciple combo for existing.

At the risk of becoming highly unpopular, I don't disprove the notion of a dragon disciple that wants to oppose what it is.

I'll explain:
I don't think that any given character goal has to be, or even should be, attainable and realistic. Limiting yourself to only attainable goals is highly constrictive of both character development and prevents you from ever encountering the question of 'what means would my character turn to'?

Think of it as telling yourself IRL "I'm going to succeed because this is a capitalist system." It's statistically a probability of more than half that you'll never exceed your 'born in' caste of wealth. It's close to 20% that you'll actually be worse off. But are you going to tell your RL self "I'm going to be in the exact same shithole when I start working"? "My hard work won't pay off"? Is that a positive goal?

I consider a DD the same way -- a non-binding and non-forcing tendency. An alignment deviation from your descended alignment could reflect exactly that archetype of character. You wanted to unlock your ancestry. You're not willing to embrace the urges that are consequence of your choice. You're not necessarily a reluctant disciple of your blood, but you're a reluctant descendant of the dragon in question.

Naturally that's not all it has to mean, because the blood doesn't innately rule you; maybe you had a strong disposition that your discipledom couldn't really change. Still, I personally believe that once the rituals complete you can't exactly 'fall' from having goddamn wings -- you're not going to be too successful because you have new instincts, but literally nothing is forcing you to be evil/good.

Speaking of said instincts, Imho you're perfectly fine ignoring them completely or partially until you get the first 'mental stat' change at 9th; and even then it only hits a halfdragon's disposition degree at 10.

In a further point, I dislike the misnomer of 'why' it's evil or good to pursue a bloodline of chromatic or metallic nature. You need to remember that the majority of DDs are years apart from their ancestor (although the Amia status quo says otherwise -- but I won't rant there), and that requisite 8 lore is literally the culmination of all your characters knowledge of everything ever -- littlemore the fact that it's literally the entirety of the lore that you need to take the class. Assuming that the pursuit of it is a voluntary ritual anyway, are you seriously going to tell me that every DD knows the entirety of every ritual they need to reach apotheosis, AND the kind of dragon they're pursuing, from day 1? No. It's completely acceptable imho to have no clue whatsoever what dragon you're dealing with, and for that matter it should be plenty acceptable to not consider the consequences since 99% of DDs have a Wisdom of 8 or less.

The only 'evil' part of it is the instincts it leaves you with.

.... This all said, I don't approve of redkin paladins, and I will personally lynch them where found.

EDIT: Also, could someone please catch me up on the 'every single level absolutely positively has to be another ritual' cringecrap that 'literally' doesn't make sense for something where said rituals are so utterly ambiguous it's painful? Last I checked not even Palemasters had to deal with that.

I'm just going to keep on insisting it's 'multiple' in the sense of maybe two or three over the whole of your standard level progression -- because regardless of what lore you wanna forcefeed it, the reality of the matter is that the degree towhich the bonuses develop is proportionate to how many things you've watched die.

With respect, the rules state otherwise: viewtopic.php?f=103&t=69066

Oh please. Like if we don't have (or did not have, whatever) more goodly drows (PALADIN drows even) than regular drows, goodly tieflings (PALADIN - build tiefer I remember precisely) and so on...

Why the sudden interest in DD? And does the alignment really matter when people / players and DMs / don't really give a damn about it?

Don't take me wrong, I think alignment matters a lot, just that it really did not show on Amia thus far.

Take paladin levels after rdd, everyone loves a redemption arc.

With likewise respect, it really doesn't.

I see "has to be voluntary, one goal, must be in one step of your alignment, many paths, always a ritual."

In what way, shape, or form does this prevent my Copper disciple from being a social anarchist that wanted the power of their lineage but doesn't consciously care about the wellbeing of others? Keep in mind that among the list of other things that can be CN are clerical worshippers of Malar and Cyric -- collectively the literal gods of 'every man for himself', Social Darwinism, Murder, and hunting for sport.

Similarly, what if my LN blue disciple decides to be Batman? Who is really gonna be able to say 'I can't' as long as they're still a totalitarian greedy ass who may or may not get his rocks off beating up badguys?

To say otherwise is literally misinterpretting the alignment system.

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

EDIT: Also, could someone please catch me up on the 'every single level absolutely positively has to be another ritual' cringecrap that 'literally' doesn't make sense for something where said rituals are so utterly ambiguous it's painful? Last I checked not even Palemasters had to deal with that.

I'm just going to keep on insisting it's 'multiple' in the sense of maybe two or three over the whole of your standard level progression -- because regardless of what lore you wanna forcefeed it, the reality of the matter is that the degree towhich the bonuses develop is proportionate to how many things you've watched die.

The every-level-is-a-ritual notion was born by my PC, Zelly. Hence:

DustSpray101 wrote:

What that ritual was and wether it went down as an actual ritual ceremony (IE: what we all know as "the Zelly method") or a gradual building of actions is entirely up to you as players.

It's just one way to do it. There's no "You have to do it this way" involved in this class because everything is so broad.

Absolutely the only RP stipulations are what was noted before and this:

DustSpray101 wrote:

Also, keep in mind that as your character unlocks their bloodline, they will start to feel differently about the world as they are shaped by the alignment locked away in the core of their heritage. Metallic kin will learn to hate Chromatic Kin and vise versa.

Flexibility is good. Personally, I enjoy seeing other styles of using the class. I just personally don't like the ones who play the "Woe is me, I'm a chromatic" card, because (as stated) it's "always chosen" with "one goal" at the end: to actively take on the strengths of your ancestor by emulating and honoring your ancestor dragon type. It mentally changes you with that first mental stat change. It messes with your head.

At one point I heard tell of a sort of "Fall" for DDs who stopped caring about or honoring their blood, but I don't think anything ever happened with that, or if it ever will. If it did, it would open up more avenues of redemption RP, in my opinion. As it is, and how the lore is written and past DMs have shown, you just don't come back from it currently.

And, Guardian, it's not "sudden" interest.

I've been having this conversation for years.

P.S: Coppers are known to be vain and covetous, especially in regard to treasure. I would love to see the negative aspects of even the good dragon types played up more. My Copper Disciple Zelly was awful sometimes, if you knew her well enough to see it, but she always tried to balance that out with crazy amounts of charity. Especially after someone inevitably called her out for doing something just a touch over-the-line.

Guardian wrote:

Oh please. Like if we don't have (or did not have, whatever) more goodly drows (PALADIN drows even) than regular drows, goodly tieflings (PALADIN - build tiefer I remember precisely) and so on...

Why the sudden interest in DD? And does the alignment really matter when people / players and DMs / don't really give a damn about it?

Don't take me wrong, I think alignment matters a lot, just that it really did not show on Amia thus far.

Drow aren't dragon disciples and don't go through a number of esoteric eldritch rituals to become closer to a being that is evil (or good) because a god made them that way.

Drow were just cursed. They got pissy and went evil and hung out with demons.

Jes wrote:

And, Guardian, it's not "sudden" interest.

I've been having this conversation for years.

Oh, my bad, then. Sorry.

Nontheless. I think alignment deserves more attention in general. Some classes deserves more attention alignment wise, some less, but still, like it or not, it's a vital part of the settings.

TormakSaber wrote:

...

Drow paladin is BS. You know it, I know it. Tiefer even more.

Even Drizzt, a rarity extraordinare, was "just" CG.

Yeee what Jes said.

I would like to see people evoking all aspects of their heredity. Good and Bad. Almost all metallics and chromatics have a bit of both. They're elaborate.

TormakSaber wrote:

Drow were just cursed. They got pissy and went evil and hung out with demons.

Can confirm. This is drow :lol:

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

Yeee what Jes said.

I would like to see people evoking all aspects of their heredity. Good and Bad. Almost all metallics and chromatics have a bit of both. They're elaborate.

To add, a couple of things I can think of. Blues take care of their children well, Silvers don't really care if someone is evil, unless he is hurting someone right now. Even the Lawful gold doesn't usually mate for life, which seems a bit chaotic to me. These examples aren't the most extreme, but there are a few grey areas there.

What is everyone's opinion on the WOTC sanctioned magic jar trick?

Quote:

Get two people, one whose body you want (Capture a dragon and bestow curse it so it can't make saves or something) and one you trust completely.

The key to the Magic Jar trick is that you are not in a host, from the standpoint of the first Magic Jar, when you terminate the first Magic Jar by breaking the gem. Spells are independent of each other, and the effects of the second Magic Jar in this case isn't a duplicate effect. From the standpoint of the second Magic Jar spell, the body you started in is your original body. When it expires, you just fall back to whatever you left, ie back one step, into the body you actually wanted.

The thing is, WOTC actually clarified this is indeed how it works (and have since deleted all their forums so I can't link to the post). A low level spell allows you to just take anyone's body forever.

100% legal. WOTC said this is actually how it works. You also keep your metal scores, class levels, etc, but gain the natural/supernatural abilities of the creature you take.

What does Amia think about this? Either Amia specific or pnp specific thoughts are welcome.

General Questions

Who is online