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The above thread was locked up, because IA was closed at the time. But as we've got a real influx of changes being done for the entire server, I think this is an interesting idea to revisit.

The idea is pretty straightforward and could be used by many characters. When using a one-handed weapon and nothing in the other hand, you have the option to use both hands on it. Something like this is done automatically in NWN2. It would give some more options to melee characters who are generally stuck to sword and board archetypes. At the expense of defense, you can do a bit more damage. It also provides and option for those who want to RP things like Samurai, Kensei, or other sorts of characters that would use both hands on a non-two-handed weapon.

Implementation: My idea for how it would be put ingame is this

-Rest menu option to two-hand current weapon. Script checks to see if you are a wielding a one-handed weapon for your character size.*
-Script switches you down a size and applies effects to counteract Small Stature. Being one size category smaller gives a PC both some advantages and disadvantages. The script would apply effects so that your character still effectively remains in the same size category.
-PC is switched to Kensei ACP. Probably more visual and thematic than anything, but it is the one ACP that shows the PC putting both hands on their one-handed weapon.

*Some weapons don't make sense to two-hand and should likely be excluded from the option: whips, daggers, rapiers, and ranged weapons of all sorts.

Balance Implications: There aren't that many. In terms of damage output, if you want a two-handed weapon, you're still better off going with an actual two-handed weapon. At best, two-handing something like a katana or a bastard sword becomes a slashing version of the heavy flail. Flail still wins out in the end, once you take Warforged/Trueforged versions into account, as well as damage types(piercing and bludgeoning). On the other end of the spectrum, I suppose Scimitar is interesting in having a 1.5 Str mod 18-20/x2 weapon. But it still has a meager 1d6 base damage. I haven't run the numbers, but I imagine things like greataxe and scythe still beat it, with their occasional wombo crits, rather than more reliable little crits.

I think if we're going to dedicate coding resources to things it should be to fix very under-balanced/powered/utilized aspects of the game, not buff or give more options to the stuff that's, as far as I can tell, the most widely used playstyle (str 1 handed weapon).

Not to mention it doesn't do anything. If you want the damage use a 2 hander.

While it doesn't affect anything balance wise, this doesn't do much for anyone.

Except your character. Like, let's be super realtalk here. You're the only one on the server who would see a beneift from this. Free-hand rapier swashbucklers are dex, and people interested in using two handed weapons will be using two handed weapons. I don't see little practical effect in boosting one handed weapons to get 2 handed damage, save for your character's very very niche application of freehand spellsword, who stands to gain quite a bit.

This is sort of the same deal as the traps thing. While it's possible, the time invested is, in my opinion, not worth the gain we gt, since it's only gonig to beneift such a hyper niche group of characters it may as well be 1 maybe 2 people.

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I haven't run the numbers, but I imagine things like greataxe and scythe still beat it, with their occasional wombo crits, rather than more reliable little crits.

PS: Math works out in favor of the more frequent crits - especially with WMs.

Personally I think I've suggested this once as well, because many of the larger weapons look silly with most races. I think it would be cool to use a bastardsword and be able to switch from 1-handed to 2-handed and vice-versa.

I can imagine using this for parties with a lot of people to dish out more damage. And yus, a two-hander'd scimitar would probably be better than a two-hander'd greataxe. And I agree that it would look glorious!

On a second pass of thought, I think this does affect balance negatively. The ability to gain 2 handed damage while never actually needing to give up the shield is a huge detriment to actual twohanders, while allowing previously un-two handable (save for halfling) weapons to be two handed. Mostly scimitars, yes. So that's another reason this shouldn't be done.

You'll throw balance off more in favor of the RDD, Paladin and dexer builds, who can safely and comfortably give up the shield and just take the free damage (while just hotswapping back if need be), while actively harming the people who might gain from it - the strength users.

In a time when two handed weapons are considered weaker and only exist because we have to give them the abilities of one-handing them, why should we be considering buffing 1 handed weapons by giving them the only thing twohanders have going for them? It doesn't make good sense.

Personally, there is a sigle weapon I would love this for: Bastard Sword. And that is mainly because that is what Bastard Swords are. One-and-a-half-handers. Hell, in German they are literally called that. Anderthalbhänder. I would love to have this for them, but not really the rest. (You might argue longsword as well, but other than those, you wouldn't really two-hand a one-hander)

Other than that, I have to agree with Tormak here. Since having this need extensive RP would be terribly weird, there would be two reasons to pick two-handers. Scythe Crits and higher base damage. And the second one isn't really a thing, since it comes down to a neglectible difference. I mean, it's like average of one or two damage for having a better early levels. If you always fight with only a sword, why not take a greatsword then? (And if the answer is RP, sorry for having gimped yourself for the sake of RP)

robbi320 wrote:

Personally, there is a sigle weapon I would love this for: Bastard Sword.

I'd say katana personally

I think the suggestion has merit, and I like the idea.. but I also side with Tormak and Robbi in that this might be too much work for what it is worth. However, here is my humble contribution to this subject.

Roleplay should be rewarded, in my opinion. Someone deciding to make a character wielding a (example) katana as a two-handed weapon and never wield a shield is going to be gimped. I think someone who makes that choice should at the very least be able to request an untradable weapon that has "5 mythal powers" (or, one more power than a normal one-handed weapon would be allowed to get, if you prefer). In that same vein, a two-handed halfling should also be allowed to request a "5 mythal power" weapon. This would require no scripting, and the charge of work required to give 3-4 characters (let's be generous) requesting some end-game weapons from time to time, paying DC for each, would definately not tax the staff too much time-wise.

Precision: I have a hin wearing a two-handed rapier (uses it as a sort of spear) so that could be seen as biased. However, I barely ever play my side characters and I do not think it worth it to use my hard earner DC on a side character I barely ever play. Think of it as you may, but even if my suggestion were accepted, I would most likely not benefit from it ^^

Mushidoz wrote:

robbi320 wrote:

Personally, there is a sigle weapon I would love this for: Bastard Sword.

I'd say katana personally

I think the suggestion has merit, and I like the idea.. but I also side with Tormak and Robbi in that this might be too much work for what it is worth. However, here is my humble contribution to this subject.

Roleplay should be rewarded, in my opinion. Someone deciding to make a character wielding a (example) katana as a two-handed weapon and never wield a shield is going to be gimped. I think someone who makes that choice should at the very least be able to request an untradable weapon that has "5 mythal powers" (or, one more power than a normal one-handed weapon would be allowed to get, if you prefer). In that same vein, a two-handed halfling should also be allowed to request a "5 mythal power" weapon. This would require no scripting, and the charge of work required to give 3-4 characters (let's be generous) requesting some end-game weapons from time to time, paying DC for each, would definately not tax the staff too much time-wise.

Now you're upping the power curve across the board for the sake of niche characters and niche builds - you can't balance around under performing edge cases, you have to balance around what is possible. You can't just say "well you'll PROBABLY never use a shield so here's a better katana". It's unenforceable, and even if it were, the few DMs we have left have far better things to do with their time than making sure the Eiggth Samurai isn't using a shield when there's 0 DMs online.

Roleplay should not be rewarded by breaking the mechanical balance of the server.

There used to be something along the lines of "RP breaking balance"... While it was indvidually balanced, Custom Scripting used to do this. What made me really sad then, is that it was really awesome, then removed. Then, a short while ago, there was the idea "hey, let's make the custom things availible to more people", but that died down as well. That really makes me sad. I liked the idea of getting these awesome spells and abilities, but then the list of like five was released, everyone was happy for their baleful polymorph, and nobody cared about anything else anymore. WM abilities? How about things like the New Moon anti-magic field? Things like Epic SD abilities? I very strongly oppose this whole "if you know about the ability, you can request it, if not, you are screwed, because you will never learn about the abilities".

Now, this is a bit off the topic, but as long as that philosphy continues, if you are gimped, it's your problem. Now, let's say you are gimped the way Ahsra and Mathus were... Because you have to be trained by one of two inactive players, you will not get the ability. (At least that is what I got from all the stuff based around old custom scripting)
Right now, sorry for you being gimped, but it's your fault. For a longsword-no-shield-er, I guess you either live with it now, or rebuild to be either sword'n'board or greatsword.
Like you said, Mushidoz, if they -make the choice-. You chose to be gimped. In a certain way, it's not our problem. Heh, this reminds me of Uce. "No reason to make your character terrible. If he is great IC, he should be great IG." (Not an actual quote, but he said something along those lines)
Let's imagine you got that stronger weapon. Then you get a rebuild, to not be gimped anymore. You just cheated the system, and it will likely take the DMs a while to notice.

robbi320 wrote:

There used to be something along the lines of "RP breaking balance"... While it was indvidually balanced, Custom Scripting used to do this. What made me really sad then, is that it was really awesome, then removed. Then, a short while ago, there was the idea "hey, let's make the custom things availible to more people", but that died down as well. That really makes me sad. I liked the idea of getting these awesome spells and abilities, but then the list of like five was released, everyone was happy for their baleful polymorph, and nobody cared about anything else anymore. WM abilities? How about things like the New Moon anti-magic field? Things like Epic SD abilities? I very strongly oppose this whole "if you know about the ability, you can request it, if not, you are screwed, because you will never learn about the abilities".

Now, this is a bit off the topic, but as long as that philosphy continues, if you are gimped, it's your problem. Now, let's say you are gimped the way Ahsra and Mathus were... Because you have to be trained by one of two inactive players, you will not get the ability. (At least that is what I got from all the stuff based around old custom scripting)
Right now, sorry for you being gimped, but it's your fault. For a longsword-no-shield-er, I guess you either live with it now, or rebuild to be either sword'n'board or greatsword.
Like you said, Mushidoz, if they -make the choice-. You chose to be gimped. In a certain way, it's not our problem. Heh, this reminds me of Uce. "No reason to make your character terrible. If he is great IC, he should be great IG." (Not an actual quote, but he said something along those lines)
Let's imagine you got that stronger weapon. Then you get a rebuild, to not be gimped anymore. You just cheated the system, and it will likely take the DMs a while to notice.

As I was told, you can't request previously approved custom scripted stuff, such as spells/feats/abilities, unless the original requester signs off on it's dispersal. The five or so abilities/spells made available is simply the sum of those Amia players that were willing to share the scripting they had done for the time it was allowed.

TormakSaber wrote:

Now you're upping the power curve across the board for the sake of niche characters and niche builds - you can't balance around under performing edge cases, you have to balance around what is possible.

Roleplay should not be rewarded by breaking the mechanical balance of the server.

I'm not going to spend much energy debating this, as you have better things to do, and I other as well

However...

Monkey Grip is a thing that's fairly common on Amia (or has been). Sadly, two handers can pretty much be considered niche builds on Amia, hence the existence of Monkey Grip kinda invalidates the "you can't balance around under performing edge cases". Monkey grip also happen to be much stronger than someone that would gain a +1 mythal power on their weapon, at the expense of not wearing a shield... Unless a sword gave +13 deflection AC to tie the amount of AC the shield gives them, the sword will always be inferior.

Actually, if, say, someone was wearing a one-handed katana and wanted to make it a 2handed katana with a 5 mythal power through RP and dedication.. what exactly in that RP combo makes this stronger or game-breaking as opposed to the same character wearing a greatsword..? Or is it some sort of corporate secret that if more people start picking up greatswords and greataxes that the server balance will explode and won't be able to handle it?

I think "breaking the mechanical balance of the server" is quite strong an expression when considering what I suggested

Let's be real here, there isn't a single character using a one-handed sword and no shield that's ever going to be as strong as a sword + shield, even with a "5 power mythal sword". The mechanical balance will never be broken by such a sword simply because shields are just that ridiculously superior to everything else and exist already. Amia is balanced around people running around characters gaining a free no-investment +8 AC bonus from shields and a little "massive critical" or "vampiric regen" or "+1 str" is not going to ever break the server.

I get your point when you say you can't police the people who would cheat and wear shields despite having such a weapon. But that's also the beauty of handing these weapons on a case-by-case basis. These weapons would be DC requests. If the player / character has shown they had the dedication to wear no shield and a 1 handed weapon for however long it took them to gather enough DC for a one-handed sword that cannot be worn while having a shield, then I think the staff should give a little faith in whoever requested it.

But hey, that was just a suggestion! I am not benefitting from that, I just thought it would have been a great fair idea, that's all. And it involved no scripting like originally suggested!

Monkey Grip was a mistake and I'm sorry I ever invented it.

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Actually, if, say, someone was wearing a one-handed katana and wanted to make it a 2handed katana with a 5 mythal power through RP and dedication.. what exactly in that RP combo makes this stronger or game-breaking as opposed to the same character wearing a greatsword..

Because katanas are one handed and you cannot perform server balance based on niche edge case builds. If you approve a katana for PC A you should be willing to do that EXACT WEAPON for PC B. No questions, ifs ands or buts.

Custom scripting existed and at the idea no one ever considered the idea that the complete destruction of active code-base handling people would dissolve to a point where it was no longer feasible to do. I don't think people should have been given a choice as to whether or not their things went public. I also think some things should have been retroactively removed from the server for the sake of balance and refunds issued.

TormakSaber wrote:

While it doesn't affect anything balance wise, this doesn't do much for anyone.

Except your character. Like, let's be super realtalk here. You're the only one on the server who would see a beneift from this. Free-hand rapier swashbucklers are dex, and people interested in using two handed weapons will be using two handed weapons. I don't see little practical effect in boosting one handed weapons to get 2 handed damage, save for your character's very very niche application of freehand spellsword, who stands to gain quite a bit.

I mean, if you would ask about my roleplay instead of just digging through my inventory all the time, you might glean some better information on my intentions. The way he's going now, it's either building a bombass shield(he uses shields, doesn't freehand), or figuring out a Bladesong alternative, which would likely require a free hand. No real interest in two-handing, but your time-honored tradition of reminding me how absolutely horrible I am is appreciated as always. That's 75% sarcasm, btw.

On the topic of making two-handers better, jeez, there are like a dozen topics out there and nothing ever gets done because we can't decide in which direction to improve them. Whether to give them what they lack, AC and defensive options in the way of Parry-to-AC or Parry-to-Concealment or craftable Shield AC. Or to make them better at what they do already, deal damage, from straight upping their damage(base or craftable) to having them do splash damage. That is to say, I'm totally down for seeing two-handers be improved. But the ideas have been out there forever and nothing's been done. I'm not trying to downplay those ideas or the need for those improvements by reminding us of another, possibly related idea. I get the "fix this before that" protocol, but things can be discussed in the meantime as always.

Really, what reminded me of this idea was watching For Honor gameplay with Samurai two-handing katanas and Knights with longswords--traditional longswords, that is. That shit's cool.

Dark Immolation wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

While it doesn't affect anything balance wise, this doesn't do much for anyone.

Except your character. Like, let's be super realtalk here. You're the only one on the server who would see a beneift from this. Free-hand rapier swashbucklers are dex, and people interested in using two handed weapons will be using two handed weapons. I don't see little practical effect in boosting one handed weapons to get 2 handed damage, save for your character's very very niche application of freehand spellsword, who stands to gain quite a bit.

I mean, if you would ask about my roleplay instead of just digging through my inventory all the time, you might glean some better information on my intentions. The way he's going now, it's either building a bombass shield(he uses shields, doesn't freehand), or figuring out a Bladesong alternative, which would likely require a free hand. No real interest in two-handing, but your time-honored tradition of reminding me how absolutely horrible I am is appreciated as always. That's 75% sarcasm, btw.

On the topic of making two-handers better, jeez, there are like a dozen topics out there and nothing ever gets done because we can't decide in which direction to improve them. Whether to give them what they lack, AC and defensive options in the way of Parry-to-AC or Parry-to-Concealment or craftable Shield AC. Or to make them better at what they do already, deal damage, from straight upping their damage(base or craftable) to having them do splash damage. That is to say, I'm totally down for seeing two-handers be improved. But the ideas have been out there forever and nothing's been done. I'm not trying to downplay those ideas or the need for those improvements by reminding us of another, possibly related idea. I get the "fix this before that" protocol, but things can be discussed in the meantime as always.

Really, what reminded me of this idea was watching For Honor gameplay with Samurai two-handing katanas and Knights with longswords--traditional longswords, that is. That shit's cool.

yeah but the nwn engine doesn't work that way.

and I don't know if you could even code it to. monkey grip works because you have the weapon in one hand and then shrink. the other way wouldn't work because when you shrink, equip it in 2 hands, then grow again, it would just go back to a one handed weapon.

Last edited by TormakSaber on Sat, Feb 04 2017, 1:15 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

I mean, if you would ask about my roleplay instead of just digging through my inventory all the time

lmao ok that's about the most disingenuous statement you could ever make about my DMing dude, and you damn well know it. I saw you freehand frequently, and you frequently talked about as custom scripted item to support free-handing, which this change would then directly buff - and you say this yourself in the topic.

Look. This is a bad idea. Period. You don't fix things by removing the reason for an entire underpowered archetype to exist and creating other balance issues while doing so. You don't fix things by making an already good fighting style better and obviating the reason to pick the other one. "extra damage" doesn't play into it - people pay DCs to use the shield, and then making it so one handed weapons can do both for free is a kick in the nuts both to people who paid for monkey grip and people who didn't and took 2 handed style to be able to do damage.

ED: I also want to reiterate that I consider Monkey Grip a huge mistake and I regret ever inventing it.

Commie wrote:

yeah but the nwn engine doesn't work that way.

and I don't know if you could even code it to. monkey grip works because you have the weapon in one hand and then shrink. the other way wouldn't work because when you shrink, equip it in 2 hands, then grow again, it would just go back to a one handed weapon.

You could code it. It works backwards as well as forwards. I remember Mosh and I testing it out a couple of times. I don't recall if the Small Stature bonuses stuff(the bonuses aren't from the feat, but from Size Category), but the 1.5 STR modifier did. This was ages ago, though, if the mention of Mosh and I testing something together isn't already an indication of that.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

I mean, if you would ask about my roleplay instead of just digging through my inventory all the time

lmao ok that's about the most disingenuous statement you could ever make about my DMing dude, and you damn well know it. I saw you freehand frequently, and you frequently talked about as custom scripted item to support free-handing, which this change would then directly buff - and you say this yourself in the topic.

Quote:

That's 75% sarcasm, btw.

I honestly don't remember free-handing, except when he's fighting trolls or Bloodmoons for his daily Vampiric Touch run, in which case he only gets hit on a natural 20 anyway. If you want to remind me of these times, my PM box is open? Really, I'm not even being an ass, why and where would I ever not need that +7 AC and that's totally redundant over one of his familiar's features. I would even gladly say he would be barred from two-handing it, for multiple reason that if you don't recall, you can again PM me about.

Like I said, if we can fix Two-handers, then let's fix the goddamn two-handers. I'm not trying to downplay that and I've advocated for buffing them in the past. No need to jump down my throat because I saw something that reminded me of a topic that got made, locked, and never investigated again.

Mechanical or by fluff animation set, both I would like to vouch for. Then again... SCIMITAR

It might need selective oversight, makes perfect sence for a bastard sword.

Yeah. Enjoy 10-20x3 2 hander crits without any penalty for throwing a shield on and being the 'strongest' again. Something halflings and the like can't do.

Dark Immolation wrote:

That shit's cool.

This, I think, is the strongest argument made for the change, and your proposition is already garnering attention in support of it. Tormak's "I think this does affect balance negatively" was my initial thought, but I figured it wouldn't be fair to stump the discussion on an assumption that the OP would be the only way to go. The point is to enable some factor of kewlness that people so far seem to concur with. If somebody thinks that DI is looking just to empower his own character, you're not giving him due credit.

I don't like or get Tormak's hard-ass line on this; this is clearly something meant up for discussion, not a yay or nay vote in its originally suggested form. Not every change has to be a boon to balance, anyway, but of course we should be watchful not to throw it off the reels. I can imagine this feature being included in a class or feat or being given some penalties to limit its balance-effect.

Opustus wrote:

I don't like or get Tormak's hard-ass line on this; this is clearly something meant up for discussion, not a yay or nay vote in its originally suggested form. Not every change has to be a boon to balance, anyway, but of course we should be watchful not to throw it off the reels. I can imagine this feature being included in a class or feat or being given some penalties to limit its balance-effect.

Because there's a bunch of stuff on this server that is in need of dire, dire attention, and spending dev hours on something that directly mechanically benefits the strongest builds in the game for 'flavor' purposes is not a good use of dev hours.

1. Blackguards have some serious issues with stats/spells that need to be addressed.
2. Server B is still update locked (I've been waiting on something to go in since summer, it's done and approved and built, but there's just an update lock so it can't go in).
3. Illusion spell school isn't fully 'updated' yet for spell school changes.
4. Transmutation and necromancy have not been started yet for spell school changes.
5. Domain summons are all wacky balance-wise.
6. Familiars are all wacky balance wise (Fae dragon wins every pvp fight for you no save ignores mind-blank).

That's just the stuff I can think of that needs to go in now, not even counting stuff that's been reported as a bug on the bug forum (which is a ton of bugs).

There are, frankly, better things to do then to allow people to roll a 10-20x3 crit build and get full benefits of 2 handing.

"There are, frankly, better things to do then to allow people to roll a 10-20x3 crit build and get full benefits of 2 handing."
Don't be silly, this is exactly what I said that needn't happen.

And sure, there's a priority list to tick off or people doing all the work are free to prioritise their tasks as they wish (I guess?), which is a very practical facet to this discussion about which I don't know anything. Good point. It also doesn't mean that we couldn't discuss it and find a satisfying solution pending implementation. Whom does that hurt, right?

Opustus wrote:

"There are, frankly, better things to do then to allow people to roll a 10-20x3 crit build and get full benefits of 2 handing."
Don't be silly, this is exactly what I said that needn't happen.

And sure, there's a priority list to tick off or people doing all the work are free to prioritise their tasks as they wish (I guess?), which is a very practical facet to this discussion about which I don't know anything. Good point. It also doesn't mean that we couldn't discuss it and find a satisfying solution pending implementation. Whom does that hurt, right?

The 10-20x3 crit while occasionally 2 handing is what's going to happen here though, that's whats being asked for, 2 handing benefits with a 1 hander, which is frankly the opposite of what needs to be looked at.

Other things that could/should go in first;

1. Fix to SD to make more then 6 levels attractive
2. Fix ash caverns because they're terrible, the boss dies in seconds and drops +5, and iirc the D&D monsters the place is full of don't look/act how they do there, and some areas are just empty.
3. Add back areas that were removed (currently in work with the restoration of the Triumvir), Khem should be 'fixed,' Actand should be 'fixed.'
4. Job system overhaul.

Longswords, bastard swords and katanas are logically the only single-handed weapons NwN has that you could feasibly use two-handed. Scimitars by their very design aren't made for two handed use, same as may of NwN weapons.

*Hypocrisy intensifies*

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Longswords, bastard swords and katanas are logically the only single-handed weapons NwN has that you could feasibly use two-handed. Scimitars by their very design aren't made for two handed use, same as may of NwN weapons.

*Hypocrisy intensifies*

Looking at the PHB list of one-handed weapons, there are more of them, than not, that can be wielded two-handed.

The point of two-handed weapons is they 'need' both hands to wield, while one-handed weapons 'can' be used with both hands. Personally, I would like the option of using one-handers with both hands, and I think it's fair to have that option, if there is an option to use two-handers with one hand. The benefits of Final Fantasy Monkey Grip far outweigh any benefit of using a one-hander with both hands.

Just take off your shield and pretend my dudes. The ACP stances make it p cool looking too

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Longswords, bastard swords and katanas are logically the only single-handed weapons NwN has that you could feasibly use two-handed. Scimitars by their very design aren't made for two handed use, same as may of NwN weapons.

*Hypocrisy intensifies*

You can two hand anything.

You can also two hand a rapier: people do that.

I don't think this is a good use of dev time.

If you purposely nerf a character to not use the best in slot, that is your own choice.

If the only thing stopping you playing a one-handed, no shield character and argue you're doing it for RP, do so and understand you will miss out on shield AC and/or off-hand DPS.

Commie wrote:

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Longswords, bastard swords and katanas are logically the only single-handed weapons NwN has that you could feasibly use two-handed. Scimitars by their very design aren't made for two handed use, same as may of NwN weapons.

*Hypocrisy intensifies*

You can two hand anything.

You can also two hand a rapier: people do that.

None of NwNs models are two-handed hilts, at least not for the rapier.

Mechanics don't care about appearance. If you're small size you twohand rapiers.

Commie wrote:

The 10-20x3 crit while occasionally 2 handing is what's going to happen here though, that's whats being asked for, 2 handing benefits with a 1 hander, which is frankly the opposite of what needs to be looked at.

Yes, it is what the original post suggests, but it can be discussed and we may look for different options. Steep comments about this not working out do not help anything. No need to curb enthusiasm and innovation.

On EFU they have a script for two handing 1 handed medium weapons that allows you to add half strength to them if you have a free offhand. They just type a macro and it adds it in and removes it if they equip a shield or off hand weapon. Sounds like an easy /s command to be honest.

Edit: Also just don't allow it for Scimitars or weapons which it makes no sense. Longswords, bastard swords, the trident, clubs, warhammers, battle axes, dwarven war axes.. Weapons that could be reasonably be used that way are perfect candidates.

just let every one of them but scimitar and rapier have the option and you're set.

Quite honestly, I'd say (at least for humans) it doesn't make sense for all finesse weapons. They just aren't big enough to be used with strength. Scimitars could be a special case due to balancing.

Custom Scripting should've never been a thing. At best, it should've been a communal spell/ability learnt, that ANYONE could pay DC's for. Not only does that enforce balance, it is not having someone waste hours coding something that someone will abandon in 2-3 months. There is already a huge graveyard of code you'll never see used again because of individual custom scripting.

RaveN wrote:

Custom Scripting should've never been a thing. At best, it should've been a communal spell/ability learnt, that ANYONE could pay DC's for. Not only does that enforce balance, it is not having someone waste hours coding something that someone will abandon in 2-3 months. There is already a huge graveyard of code you'll never see used again because of individual custom scripting.

yeah that's how I feel too. And I think we need to just open the vault and make available all "balanced" custom content.

it'd be really cool to utilize the stuff that has been made in the past, especially all the spells.

We are looking at stuff. But it takes time.

The next to be released will be SD custom stuff.

But as said we have to go through each single script and check it.

So have some patience. We have released plenty already. And more will be released, once the balance is through. So no, it won't be every single one, but it will be more, throughout time.

Can the Devs get a bump on what's going on re: SD stuff?

Done.

Thanks!

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

So have some patience. We have released plenty already. And more will be released, once the balance is through. So no, it won't be every single one, but it will be more, throughout time.

I don't want to be rude, but there was a thread that isted the released stuff. And it listed four spells. So, either we differ on the word plenty, or I'm an idiot and can't find things. I'm betting on the latter, but then could I/we have a list of released custom spells? Ok, I know there's the howling breath widget as well. But for the rest I actually don't know any public custom spells.

Yes you are rude. Those are the ones that are released now. Then the full RDD was redone. Then the warlock was made public, which was also a custom DC request. Then wildshape was redone. Now we work on SD. Some Shifter shapes need to be still looked at. Next ten will likely be some pre-scripted bard songs. We are not one tending to ONE class. More mage stuff will be released when it is their turn again and time frees up in between.

P.S. and between all that, bug fixes and area making and re-doing etc is done aswell. The dev team is not just sitting there, making mages better.

To put context on the custom spells.

Most of them have to be torn apart, talked about, and then decided upon. Alarm I had to build from the ground up, and Baneful Polymorph had to have much the same treatment. Custom spells aren't something we can just turn around. In most cases they are still attached to widgets from prehak days, and as a result they are scripted to only function for a very specific character.

Most custom spells we have laying around are from the prehak days. So that leaves out a majority right away unless someone wishes to spend the time to transfer them into a custom spell format. It is a mixed bag on how long that can take. Some are really well designed that the transfer is relatively easy and others are very bare bones and designed using only set integers because they were made with one requesting character in mind.

Ok. Sorry. I didn't know it was that difficult. Sorry for complaining without knowing.

Oh GAWD you people. Looking at this thread and the one on DMs being childish... *mounts his high horse* You really need to learn some stuff! Like to say thank you and sorry and some forgiveness and mercy! No need to be such a tightypants about everything, please shower some love and forgiveness too.

ROBBI: You weren't rude! You asked nicely and were answered. Maybe you were an idiot in the LEAST possible sense of being an idiot, but what's wrong with that? What's up with this hostility folks? PREACH LOVE and KINDNESS. No need to bow, we're all equals etc.

Gosh, I will just open a thread on General Discussion that MAY end in catastrophic results, but we'll see!

robbi320 wrote:

Quite honestly, I'd say (at least for humans) it doesn't make sense for all finesse weapons. They just aren't big enough to be used with strength. Scimitars could be a special case due to balancing.

That's why I mentioned that it should be restricted to the sensible medium sized weapons since you can't finesse them with the notable exception of the rapier, and that scimitars should definitely be excluded. We're in total agreement on that I think.

robbi320 wrote:

Ok. Sorry. I didn't know it was that difficult. Sorry for complaining without knowing.

I think there's some frustration among the parties communicating so I'd like to clarify for Robbi. There is a lot of stuff being done to classes that is totally overhauling some of the useless aspects of them and a TON of the spells have been overhauled to place a special emphasis on spell focus feats. It's actually amazing but they're not all consolidated into one thread so it's all sort of hard to figure out where it's listed.

Reverse Monkey Grip Revisited

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