AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Was talking to Amarice today about vampire form, from the 'undead shape' shifter feat, and she told me generally speaking vampire rules on amia apply to the form.

viewtopic.php?f=110&p=1348216

So like all of that? Whenever I use the vampire form?

That sounds awful.

yeah i don't know if she was joking (she's pretty hard to read and i shitpost, like, a lot) but I was curious.

RIP FW.

Yeah. I've seen people use the form a lot.

Never seen or heard of the 'rules' applying.

That seems a bit over the top. Should the Minotaur form only be used inside a labyrinth? I mean, come on...

Quite honestly, that would be pretty weird, and there is no note where anyone would feasibly see the rules. I mean, yes, we've had the policy of "not knowing the rules is not an excuse", but that is one rule that took me a while to find, let alone think it was relevant.

Also, it says it is a contract, so either one of two things would have to happen, realistically:
1. Make every Undead shifter agree to the contract, or
2. Give them a different form instead.

Also, that would mean shifters have the ability to purchase a mist, bat, wolf, rat shape.

Also, the PvP rules would be even more of a hassle:
1. Shift into vampire.
2. Get other person to agree to Arena PvP.
3. Unshift.
4. Set own PvP to Arena.
5. Shift back.
6. Resume PvP.

Also, dying would be weird, since the idea is that they mist form instead of dying, and go their coffin. Ah, wait. They don't have one. But, lore-wise, they'd have mist shape.

And so on. The problems made by making shifters have to do these rules would be really annoying.

I have no idea. I mean it's what she said. I guess the next time I see someone outside in vampire form during the day I'll let them know they are perma dead and to talk to the DM team and for the meantime RP being perma'd appropriately.

Of course I'm not going to do that, but I really disagree with anyone saying you have to follow all vampire rules while shifted. Requesting entry? Running water? Garlic? Two are beat by just shifting then going in, one could mess you up if you ate some spaghetti then shifted to a vampire.

In short I don't think the vampire amia rules should apply to shifter form and the shifter vampire forms weaknesses should be strictly limited to those currently represented IG mechanically.

Especially since our Shifter is a class, not a race. You'd have to run a bunch of rules for playing "monstrous races" for shifters for this to be fair, and even at that, Shifter would then become a DM Permission PrC request since there are so many rules to follow.

Do not twist what I said.

I said that generally they would apply, because you gain the complete physical traits of what you shift into, but that we do not enforce it.

Then you made your usually troll-y comment of "oh great so I can go dance and prance in the sun as a vampire" to which I only said "You shouldn't."

That was followed by more troll comments of yours, I will refrain to quote here.

I take "you shouldn't" as don't/against the rules.

But if it's not enforced that's fine.

If it is forbidden it would be "you cannot" or "you must not".

You "should not" means it would be poor taste to exaggerate it in the manner you proposed, just because you can and are not enforced by rules that will punish you if you do. Just like you can make a LG demon-tiefling paladin, but you should not.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

If it is forbidden it would be "you cannot" or "you must not".

You "should not" means it would be poor taste to exaggerate it in the manner you proposed, just because you can and are not enforced by rules that will punish you if you do. Just like you can make a LG demon-tiefling paladin, but you should not.

Yeah, I agree. I just misunderstood you in the first place.

asking again, is the shrine of E guarded by a flight of literal dragons (that are not in the module) as some PC's say?

I refuse to acknowledge shit like that because 1: if it's an update, mod is dynamic and it can be done in 10 minutes, 2: if it's a plot the DM should be around enough to place them there.

Things like this are different than "your gates ave 5 HP when every other gate in the module in the history of the server is plot also I can murder your AI-less nonplot guards."

Yes it is guarded by Felldrakes. No it hasn't been updated yet. Be patient.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Yes it is guarded by Felldrakes. No it hasn't been updated yet. Be patient.

how many are there

where are they

am I meta-ing guards if I do things there

or are they like the bendir guards

ed: nm

Not everyone looks at the forums and not everyone saw that notice pass. "There but not there" things are a bit hypocritical when we ask people to not hide things like dragon disciple traits.

LunarBloom wrote:

Not everyone looks at the forums and not everyone saw that notice pass. "There but not there" things are a bit hypocritical when we ask people to not hide things like dragon disciple traits.

all I know is that people are going ooc to remind me about a flight of dragons watching me like a hawk. but i can't see them.

Is it still snowing?

Or, at least put a little OOC notice there, that says that there are dragons flying overhead or something.

Pretty sure we used toi have a thing called WYSIWYG, but seems like that's not a thing. Now wanting to start a huge conflict, but why can I trust one player saying that, when a player can say whatever they want to. I can say there is a flight of dragons following my summoner at all times, therefore he can't be PvP'ed. Does that mean a DM sanctioned it? Nope. So, wouldn't it be much easier to have things be in a way that doesn't need an OOC retconning in many cases?

Especially when it is such an easy job ob going into the toolset, copy-pasta'ing any other city guard, changing name, appearance, portrait, voiceset and plonking down like four of them into random places in the area?

Felldrakes typically cannot fly, but, I digress.

Copy pasta of guards isn't exactly a great idea either as not all guards are created equal, and next to none of them have ever been properly balanced.

Felldrakes cannot fly. They are there temporarily to stop people from trying to murder each other, standard guard stuff.

There was an IC session of moving them and an IC post made on the shrine's topic.

The area hasn't been updated yet because I have about fifty other things that are priority. They are there IC, please act like it, and don't be dicks to each other.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Felldrakes typically cannot fly, but, I digress.

Copy pasta of guards isn't exactly a great idea either as not all guards are created equal, and next to none of them have ever been properly balanced.

Do guards actually have stats? I mean, 99% of the cases, I doubt it would matter, even with the felldrakes, since they would stop people from coming and doing unlawful things. I mean, they would just make it obvious IG that it is a guarded area. That would mean that it is obvious for everyone that the normal metagaming guards rules apply.
The reason I find the forum difficult is that the topic gets bumped down, and the actual notice that it is guarded is bumped down (or up and onto another page, in this case) so you don't neccessesarily know things. I remember the big outcry when the Kenlyls came back and acted like they owned the place, and this opens it up to a similar problem. If I walk onto a random area (ie Nes'ek: Ankh'remun tombs: Upper, or whatever the area is called) do I have to read up every area where something might be written for it, and look through all the forum posts in all the possible places something could be written (in this case DM Events, PC Notice Board, Announcements, Khem) before I am allowed to do anything there?

Yes, I am exaggerating a bit, but I just wonder why we are moving towards a place that does not help newer players at all. I mean, imagine you were a new player. Next to many things about the forum being out of date, not having a nice list of DMs (so you don't directly know who to talk to), there also are areas that simply are not in the module correctly. I mean, I really don't see the problem of adding useless placeholder felldrakes, that don't need to be balanced, since even now, PvP/whatever apparently would require a DM, which means a DM has to make up the values anyway.

The Felldrakes could be just caught up in the guard queue. Endirs point militia have had an equipment upgrade due in since the Draven days that were still waiting on, and a bunch of silver dragon guards are supposed to be removed from several locations, so I imagine it would be at least after that.

Edit; if you guys want to give me access im sure I can fix a ton of these issues in a weekend.

1 - What is the current concensus on items giving feats?

Would a request for a small shield with expertise be something inconceivable? I know there are items which give power attack, or evasion, or even freedom..

2 - What about weapons with on-hit "cast spell : lvl 1 Whatever" ?

I know those existed in the past (and there are some remnants still), but are they still a possibility?

walnutboy wrote:

Is it still snowing?

Not as much but winter seems to be lasting longer, yup.

Mushidoz wrote:

2 - What about weapons with on-hit "cast spell : lvl 1 Whatever" ?

I know those existed in the past (and there are some remnants still), but are they still a possibility?

From this post:

Quote:

On Hit spells or On Hit: Death (Race), as well as Vorpal and Dispel are not allowed on weapons. Other On Hit properties are alright.

[quote="Mushidoz"]1 - What is the current concensus on items giving feats?

Would a request for a small shield with expertise be something inconceivable? I know there are items which give power attack, or evasion, or even freedom..

Very good question, to be honest i think all Gear and items with a Feat should be removed. *Shrugs* Just my opinion. There's quite a few in the Mod but where do you draw the line of balance of which feats to be aloud? But till then, ill be rocking Zen archery with a cloak with rapid shot, and a Bow with point Blank Feat on my Druid.

.....when i actually play her which is never. lol

Chupacabra wrote:

Mushidoz wrote:

1 - What is the current concensus on items giving feats?

Would a request for a small shield with expertise be something inconceivable? I know there are items which give power attack, or evasion, or even freedom..

Very good question, to be honest i think all Gear and items with a Feat should be removed. *Shrugs* Just my opinion. There's quite a few in the Mod but where do you draw the line of balance of which feats to be aloud? But till then, ill be rocking Zen archery with a cloak with rapid shot, and a Bow with point Blank Feat on my Druid.

.....when i actually play her which is never. lol

I have an opinion similar to yours, but a bit different. I think all class feats shouldn't be on items (as well as some heavy investment and obvious feats, of course :p go go ring of epic dodge... yeah, no). Items that give "normal" feats I am personally fine. When I see Weapon specialization, evasion, improved evasion (think they got removed?), freedom, etc. that bothers me. But when I see power attack on the bear gloves? I'm cool with it.

However, what I am interested to know here if is they are thinking the same as you (no more bonus feat items) or if they have an opinion like mine and go case-by-case. Expertise on a small shield being my example here

------

@Xaviera: Good find.. but I'm not sure if it includes something like (for example) On-Hit: Cast spell Fireball lvl1

i think any feat on an item is a mistake.

freedom is also not a feat.

Commie wrote:

freedom is also not a feat.

With the changes to Harper Scout, yes, it pretty much is a feat.

Mushidoz wrote:

Commie wrote:

freedom is also not a feat.

With the changes to Harper Scout, yes, it pretty much is a feat.

uhhhhhhh......... it's a class feature, not a feat.

Mushidoz wrote:

Commie wrote:

freedom is also not a feat.

With the changes to Harper Scout, yes, it pretty much is a feat.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Feats

Not on there. Not on your feat list on a master scout either.

Master Scout:

Quote:

Level 5: Flawless Stride: Master Scout gains permanent Freedom.

Whether it's called "Freedom", "Flawless Stride" or "Stinky Fart Propulsion" freedom is still freedom.

Whether it's called a "Class Feature" or a "Feat" it is still "Class Feat" (which is the term I used, by the way)

What are you debating or arguing this over for? The term used here is not relevant to answering this question.

Mushidoz wrote:

1 - What is the current concensus on items giving feats?

Would a request for a small shield with expertise be something inconceivable? I know there are items which give power attack, or evasion, or even freedom..

Don't know about expertise as it isn't listed on the list of 'yes, maybe, almost never' feats for DC items. I figure if it isn't listed then it isn't allowed?!

Mushidoz wrote:

Master Scout:

Quote:

Level 5: Flawless Stride: Master Scout gains permanent Freedom.

Whether it's called "Freedom", "Flawless Stride" or "Stinky Fart Propulsion" freedom is still freedom.

Whether it's called a "Class Feature" or a "Feat" it is still "Class Feat" (which is the term I used, by the way)

What are you debating or arguing this over for? The term used here is not relevant to answering this question.

it is relevant as you're asking for feats on gear and freedom is not a feat. it doesn't go in your feat list, so it's not a feat.

Quote:

it is relevant as you're asking for feats on gear and freedom is not a feat. it doesn't go in your feat list, so it's not a feat.

Where do I find the portrait name list for the portrait changer?

I tried searching it on the forum and outside, but I couldn't find anything appropriate.

Thanks!

This is what I want answered:

Quote:

1 - What is the current concensus on items giving feats?

Would a request for a small shield with expertise be something inconceivable? I know there are items which give power attack, or evasion, or even freedom..

This is an opinion, replying to walnutboy by giving MY POINT OF VIEW:

Quote:

I have an opinion similar to yours, but a bit different. I think all class feats shouldn't be on items (as well as some heavy investment and obvious feats, of course :p go go ring of epic dodge... yeah, no). Items that give "normal" feats I am personally fine. When I see Weapon specialization, evasion, improved evasion (think they got removed?), freedom, etc. that bothers me. But when I see power attack on the bear gloves? I'm cool with it.

However, what I am interested to know here if is they are thinking the same as you (no more bonus feat items) or if they have an opinion like mine and go case-by-case. Expertise on a small shield being my example here

Whether I call freedom a class feat, or a class feature, or a feat, or a fart, or a bonus (whatever) on AN OPINION REPLY has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the freaking question I asked. NONE.

Moreover, while freedom is not a feat per-se, the fact that there is a class which gives a feat named Flawless Stride which is 100% identical to what "freedom" gives makes this (AS I WROTE) ----pretty much a feat-----

Ridiculous.

Mushidoz wrote:

This is what I want answered:

Quote:

1 - What is the current concensus on items giving feats?

Would a request for a small shield with expertise be something inconceivable? I know there are items which give power attack, or evasion, or even freedom..

This is an opinion, replying to walnutboy by giving MY POINT OF VIEW:

Quote:

I have an opinion similar to yours, but a bit different. I think all class feats shouldn't be on items (as well as some heavy investment and obvious feats, of course :p go go ring of epic dodge... yeah, no). Items that give "normal" feats I am personally fine. When I see Weapon specialization, evasion, improved evasion (think they got removed?), freedom, etc. that bothers me. But when I see power attack on the bear gloves? I'm cool with it.

However, what I am interested to know here if is they are thinking the same as you (no more bonus feat items) or if they have an opinion like mine and go case-by-case. Expertise on a small shield being my example here

Whether I call freedom a class feat, or a class feature, or a feat, or a fart, or a bonus (whatever) on AN OPINION REPLY has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the freaking question I asked. NONE.

Moreover, while freedom is not a feat per-se, the fact that there is a class which gives a feat named Flawless Stride which is 100% identical to what "freedom" gives makes this (AS I WROTE) ----pretty much a feat-----

Ridiculous.

Sorry I meant like, Feats are treated mechanically differently then non-feats under-the-hood. If it goes in your feat-list then it has all kinds of stuff you have to watch and look out for as well as making it available for people that might not meet the prerequisites of the feat.

Remember you have to build with stats that allow you to get specific feats (ask a weapon master how many 13's they have in their stats) and it's a serious consideration before just handing it out.

Freedom has no such requirement despite being a 5 class capstone.

Stop this nonsense now of bickering and whining back and forth about what is a feat and what is not.

Also no, most feats are not allowed on items.

And no, you will neither get Expertise nor Power Attack on any item.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Stop this nonsense now of bickering and whining back and forth about what is a feat and what is not.

Also no, most feats are not allowed on items.

And no, you will neither get Expertise nor Power Attack on any item.

Page for requests and item balance

It does not have Expertise listed so I assume that's like 100% no.

But Power attack is listed as Medium (needs a good reason and reasonable combination) just might explain why people think they could get power attack on a item

Most feats are not really going to be approved on items. The list is fairly old, and you can always try. But unless it is something that has no real mechanical benefit (or only a very minor one) that is unlikely to be approved.

And yes, there are some items with some feats in game. It is however something completely different, if you

1. Cannot pick which item slot it is convinient to you
2. You can only mythal it
3. Have to give up on possible far stronger epic items on that slot
4. can't really custom tailor it to your gear

So allowing it on a random (limited) item in game and allowing it on a custom tailored DC item is a big difference.

any way we can use a model other then the pherexian negator for the wastrilith?

the model looks doofy as hell when it's dodging (it just does a back-flip through terrain and sidles all over the place, made worse by how big it is) and I don't think that's what a wastrilith even looks like, they look like eels and shit.

Quote:

A Wastrilith was a demon that resembled an immense eel with a vaguely humanoid upper body, round amber eyes, and a mouth full of fangs.

additionally can it like, be given spells or abilities or something? I really like the random spawning of it and the wall it sometimes makes but then it just sort of sits there and dies slow.

The Wastrilith is terrible in general imo. I want to ripe it out.

Maverick00053 wrote:

The Wastrilith is terrible in general imo. I want to ripe it out.

Let me re-do it.

Can you send me the monster? Im learning the toolset and could make it interesting to fight.

Commie wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

The Wastrilith is terrible in general imo. I want to ripe it out.

Let me re-do it.

Can you send me the monster? Im learning the toolset and could make it interesting to fight.

It isn't about it being retooled to something else. I just don't think it should exist in that area at all.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Commie wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

The Wastrilith is terrible in general imo. I want to ripe it out.

Let me re-do it.

Can you send me the monster? Im learning the toolset and could make it interesting to fight.

It isn't about it being retooled to something else. I just don't think it should exist in that area at all.

I was going to re skin and re name it into something more appropriate, and give it some combat feats without touching its spawn or ice wall parts, and give it regular normal hp levels.

Because that's what I like about it, the random spawn and ice wall.

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