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Okay, I know this is somewhat controversial and many will say, "Just get ingame and do something.", however, I feel that IC storytelling on the forums is crucial to roleplaying. It's the difference from a Book and it's Movie adaptation.

Bear with me here. I've noticed less and less IC postings on the forums and it's being taken over with rebuilds, DC requests and special character requests. I used to like to read journals and IC posts about things that happened all over Amia, but... alas, they are much fewer than ever.

Please, let's try to get back to this. It created a wonderful network of storylines, crisscrossing and going back and forth, all the while giving incentive for people to "do" something. Heck, lots of them inspired me to play again or play one of my other characters.

I'm sure there will be naysayers, as there always are, but, for me, and my limited game-playing time lately, I find writing a bit of a story or a journal to be my contribution to the Amian story when I can't be there ingame as well as shedding a little light on my characters that otherwise you might not know.

Thanks,

-B

Personally, I'd much rather see more people IG, as I'm not much of a fan of forum RP and journals and such.

As for the forum being take over with rebuilds - well, it's only logical, given the present community mentality and the way Amia is heading. Not the best situation for sure, but what you gonna do...

Oh, I agree about more people logging in.

Sadly, I have a lot less time for that nowadays, so... IC forum posting keeps me "in" if you will. I know it's not for everyone, but we do have a lot of great storytellers here, and I'd like to see more creativity than requests.

Also, I'd think more IC forum activity might bring some lurkers back ingame. Maybe I'm just hopeful there, who knows.

I've been wanting to write something for ages. The problem is just that usually, when my characters were important enough for me, they either were just fun in the moment and had little to no backstory (I mean, like, really, I like to just jump IG and let my character develop, it just is more fun to me, though some people don't like that) or they have or had some crucial goal that I tended to closely that I would try to let as little OOC info trickle through.

But maybe I can make something about Farija. She's been fun enough. Now to just think about what to write. Guess the worst thing that can happen is that people won't like my writing style. And, it's just people on the internet, so why should I care... (I'm likely never going to do this, knowing myself when I say 'maybe at some point I'll do this')
Basically wha tended to stop me was the whole OOC metagaming barrier. If I write something, I always fear it will be used IG, even if there is no reason for people to know. *shrugs* No idea.

Well... journals are one way. They're great and I find it fun. As for metagaming? Ehh, I don't worry so much. Either be obtuse and only give out information you don't mind being used or give it all away and have fun with it. I've tried both methods. I don't remember clearly, but I think there was a DM ruling that anything on the forum is IC knowledgable, just to eliminate metagaming. I tend to ICly hand copies to people sometimes, that way... no worries, they read it for real.

Another way to "dip your toes in" for IC posting is little things, like today, Ari got her hair changed back to it's old style (well, she will once I can log in) and I put up a post about it: http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=88880

Is it world changing stuff? No. Will many people care? Well... as of this writing, 32 people saw it. So, it's something.

That leads me to my point in pushing this. 32 people read that on the forum. There are 12 people on Amia right now. So that means there are a lot of people reading the forum but not logging in. Showing them we're actually here might persuade a few to join in. Or, maybe more will post, creating more activity, and hopefully more people will log in as a result.

Also, if no one likes your writing? Who cares? People will often read journals and IC posts just to "see what so-and-so is up to", and if you do interesting things, and write about them, or better yet, write about interactions with other characters... people will read your journal. Another result of that is people will interact with you ingame, partially so they too might get a mention in your journal, but also because it shows you're social, and looking to interact.

Well..it is really up for individual preferences tbh. I like good PC story posts but I would never air much detail about my characters and never felt the need that people need to know that, unless I have in depth RP with them.

As for the matter of IG or forum RP. I think forum RP is a really constructive addition if it is a supplement for the IG rp. As soon as it becomes from supplement to replacement, it is no longer constructive (or in certain cases fair to others).

I was merely trying to stir up some positivity in the hopes of more activity. I'll stop.

That Guy wrote:

I was merely trying to stir up some positivity in the hopes of more activity. I'll stop.

Nah you're fine in my mind. Like you I enjoy reading the IC story posts people make and often enjoy writing my own. It helps to flesh out characters and give depth to the parts you might not actually get to RP out. I also like to think that should DMs read them then something might spark an interest and lead to something creative.

I haven't been posting lately for several reasons. Most of Shana's diary is reactionary meaning that in order for something to make it into the diary it has to spark a cord in game... little of interest means I don't get creative or feel inspired. Add to this the fact that Shana actually gave her diary to another character does tend to limit her need and ability to write in it!

I just need to be inspired and I hate to say it but, I'm not at the moment.

As I said, just trying to add a little positive influence, sadly, this is Amia and we just can't ever be happy or try to be.

Walnutboy, I feel your pain. I go through ruts without writing too. Every once in a while, I'll just put a story from the past in a journal as an entry, giving a little window to some unknown little aspect of the character. Sure, you have to come up with it, but... that's what roleplay is about, being creative and acting out a part. To me, giving that little tidbit fleshes out a character that much more, gives me more of a guide to play by and a reason why for some of their actions.

I agree, we mostly get build threads, script talk and requests. More IC, IC writings, rumours, sightseeings and notes posted are a part of the RP.

Budly wrote:

I agree, we mostly get build threads, script talk and requests. More IC, IC writings, rumours, sightseeings and notes posted are a part of the RP.

Wow, for once we agree!

I also agree with this!! I have to admit I look the forum severall times everyday hoping to read some new PC story!
Lately I've wanted to post more but I havent decided how to arrange the story and all that... but yeah, forum stories are really nice and can help to make some.nice RP IG too.

I used to love doing RP on the forums until a few other players oocly stated that it was just attention whoring so I stopped.I've also seen stuff I've written meta gamed ICly so I'm even more cautious about posting.

CCL... half of being a character on Amia would be considered attention whoring. I say... let them call you what they want. I miss your IC posts personally. Yes, I read every one.

As for metagaming... sure, it happens a lot and I just expect anything I write to be used IC. It makes me less cranky that way.

The forums should be a means to supplement. Too often have I seen people doing things on the forums without /any/ IG effort. Yes I get the spirit of your post, Guy, to try and garner and push activity, but I think as a general response, we need to be cautious that we walk the line carefully. The forums make 'godmodding' way to easy and convenient. IG leaves a visible footprint. There are many that might lurk the forums more than the game, and vice versa

Amia should be IG first and foremost, and the forums should fill in blanks. That's my view...

OF course I meant as a supplement.

That Guy wrote:

Budly wrote:

I agree, we mostly get build threads, script talk and requests. More IC, IC writings, rumours, sightseeings and notes posted are a part of the RP.

Wow, for once we agree!

I forgot what we been arguing before but hey! Its something we agree upon!

Mostly joking, but we do butt heads, always have even since our days on POTM.

That Guy wrote:

Mostly joking, but we do butt heads, always have even since our days on POTM.

On POTM I ended up butting heads with a lot of people. :lol:

But now I tend to avoid the ooc talk in off topic sections.

But yes, more IC is really good life blood. Especially for people who check the forum before they check the server.

Yeah, I stopped using Skype, try to read the IC stuff on the forums not the OOC so much, and in general, log in when I can and just try to enjoy it. I do IC posts to supplement my ingame presence, never anything godmod or overpowering, more like, "Hey, I'm here, I did something mundane and meaningless but I'm here.".

Weird. I thought I never agreed, neither with Budly nor with That Guy. I mean I have a few topics where I didn't agree.

Also, if being called an 'attention whore', seriously, ignore them, in my opinion. I mean, seriously, I'd dare say that anything written on the forums is almost 100% not attention whoring, since there is technically no benefit (apart from maybe requests, those have a benefit, not really attention whoring either) from writing anything here. There's no DCs for it, I know a few players that arenÄt on the forums much, so you are in a way getting less attention than standing in Bendir or the Shrine and attempting to be the focus of interest at all times. (and I haven't met anyone that really does that, IMO)
Secondly, well, it's the internet. Who cares if you attention whoring? Is it not perhaps even more attention whoring to say 'I don't like something you are doing, please stop it', especially if it is comepletely inconsequential?

And I completely dislike if PC stories are common knowledge. Are they, and if yes, could I get a statement? (either reference to the ruling, or a new statement?) I mean, otherwise, I could metagame quite a few evil players, and out them almost immediately.

That Guy wrote:

Yeah, I stopped using Skype, try to read the IC stuff on the forums not the OOC so much, and in general, log in when I can and just try to enjoy it. I do IC posts to supplement my ingame presence, never anything godmod or overpowering, more like, "Hey, I'm here, I did something mundane and meaningless but I'm here.".

Its the best way to do it.

And Skype and discord are toxic. Any zero-effort chat tends to be, people make new private chats to shit on people in the more 'open' ones, suddenly you find your one chat has four splinter channels you are also in and each separate splinter chat only exists to exclude someone from the main chat. No reason to talk or work anything out (like you sort of have to do when using a permanent chat fixture such as vent or teamspeak) because you can just blow anyone off and instantly make your own.

Ran a bunch of online communities. This is how it always goes down. Cliques turn into fractured circlejerks excreting poison on one another. Then it goes nuclear.

Amia is, I think, the fifth or sixth time I've seen it happen. And it's always via Skype and now Skype /discord. 0 effort chat.

Sadly, it seems too many take the concept of "it's the internet, who cares?", as... "Hey, I can be an asshole to everyone and it makes no difference.". Unfortunately, there's people playing this game, many of us for a long, long time. In many ways, roleplaying is based on trusting those you play with. When an undertone of, "I will use whatever means to win." comes through constantly, it defeats the purpose. I'm seeing too much of that on Amia. Too many need to win at all costs, be right all the time, and have everything just "so". I remember when people actually logged in, roleplayed their differences, and it was fun, not just "oh, I need this so I'll be better at PVP." or... "I can out this player as evil.".

Can we just actually try to be a little positive and show some respect for our fellow players? That's really all I'm asking for.

Oops, yeah. That is not how I mean that. I mean it as, unlike real life, it doesn't matter if you do not perform 100% perfect. I mean, like I said about the PC stories, if you don't like my story, don't read it. As much as it'd be posted for others, I wouldn't care too much if they have negative feedback. I mean, maybe I'd try to improve, but I wouldn't take it too seriously. I know I am not the best at formulating nice, non-inflammatory posts, but that is not how I meant it. It was simply meant as a way to get some... well, flameproofing. Think of it as a hazmat-suit, not a flamethrower.

Wasn't necessarily directed at you, but it is an attitude I see a lot of.

I just want to know if the people in those chat dumps were dealt with or if I have to deal with them logging on again.

I really don't want to waste time doing shit on Amia only to have that group pop in ic. Is the new rule ex post facto? Hope so for the communities sake.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about now.

Liking the post intention and the specific comment of respecting other people Roleplaying. Would like to see that IC experiences would not be ruined by OOC explanations/demands or taking advantage of the OOC point.

It really has a way of eroding at you.

I'll try and be on more. Perhaps more on Kilmar for some more lighthearted activity.

My characters not the most light hearted. That is my problem but I hope people can see beyond the IC atleast

It's not about your character's persona. It's about being active. More people read the forums than log in. It would be nice to snag a few of those lurkers into the game.

I keep coming back, and sadly, Amia keeps slapping me in the face. This isn't just about this post, but I've found Amians to be some of the most negative people I've ever seen. No matter what the topic, it will be debated, rule-lawyered, dissected and torn to pieces to find the one way it might, just possibly be bad, and that's the basis for argument and stagnation. I'm not blaming DM's, I'm blaming us all. Even myself, I've picked on people for their style of RP in the past, and I owned up to it and apologized. There's room for everyone here, but, we have to show a modicum of respect to each other too.

Recent experiences with roleplay are leaving me dismayed. Why is everyone so quick to go out of character? Sure, my character said things that are "different than the rule books", does that mean I need to be sent tells quoting the books? "Just to make sure the player knows.". Please, this isn't roleplay. This is rule-lawyering and it's annoying.

Funny thing about RP, you can say, or do, pretty much whatever you want so long as you don't break AMIA rules. My character can claim to be the culmination of three demons and a demigod in character, claim to have lived for millenia, claim powers beyond your wildest dreams, and that she is the queen of a small island in a pocket plane of Dementia. Is any of it true? Hells no, but it you have to go out of character to make sure I, the player, know that? Guess what? YOU broke immersion, YOU broke roleplay. It's happened far too often and I just had to say something about it.

Now, if I try using any of that "information" in requests, or OOCly in any way infer they are her real story? Then I'm totally wrong. That said, characters don't know they are characters.

Some characters like to fuck with people, to see how they react. They make shit up, they make outrageous claims, they quite simply talk shit. That's part of their persona, it's not wrong, it's just another way to roleplay.

In short, we are too quick to OOC on Amia, whether it's tells, party chat, what have you. The past few days, I've spent more time in tells and party chat than in actual in game chat. Not by my own volition, mind you, simply responding to others. Here's the thing: I don't come here to "hang out and chat", I come for escapism, to be "not me", to be my characters. All the OOC ruins that.

I both agree and disagree, the problem is the players who think their character is the child of Drizzt and Mystra. The problem is of course not the crazy person who lies or the one who jokes around. Budly always "jokes" around about "Is it time yet to cook the tallers?".

I also have a bard that is so bad at lore he proclaims Red Wizards are from Thay and that the capital of Cormyr is Baldurs Gate for example. :lol:

Actually, you do agree with me.

Characters can say or do whatever.

Players must follow the rules.

It's not up to other players to ensure me or you as a player know the rules unless we are breaking them.

Make sense?

Aren't Red Wizards from Thay? (serious question)

I have to admit one thing thougj, I would be very likely to give a tell like that. Maybe that is something I can try to do better.

On the other hand, you might find Farija to react somewhat strongly to people with false claims, which Budly learnt.

I mean, in most cases, having wrong OOC knowledge isn't even too detrimental, since it essentially just is a lack of IC knowledge. I mean, if you don't know something OOC, you can just RP it as yout character knowing IC. I've only had this devolve into a real problem once. So, essentially, at least make sure you know about your characters' history. Your character doesn't need to know every single bit of FR geography.

Umm, Farija calling someone out ICly is completely appropriate. It's when we have to go OOC to "correct" people making outrageous claims that what I'm talking about is a problem.

Sure, there are some that don't know what's allowed to do and not allowed to do. Here's a good rule of thumb: Benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that player knows and they are just roleplaying instead of assuming they're new, or don't know, and having to be corrected.

Roleplaying information garnered ingame is not the same as collecting facts. As players, we know all the rules, have access to all the books and maps. As characters, they would only have access to what they have access to. No way in hell EVERY character can possibly know every rule and nuance every time, and they all know it in precisely the same way.

Stand ten people in a line, whisper a short story to the first and have them pass it down. Have the tenth person tell you the story. It will be very different.

AS IT SHOULD BE WITH CHARACTERS INGAME.

Roll with it, enjoy it, fight it ICly, argue with them, whatever. It's all good in character. When you feel the need to send a tell, think of these questions:
1) Will me telling them they are wrong make this better or would roleplaying it out work better?
2) Are their outrageous claims against the rules for a character to make? (think hard here, it's pretty difficult to make a claim IC that is actually against Amia rules).
3) Am I wrong?
4) Am I a DM and in a position to enforce rules?

That Guy wrote:

Actually, you do agree with me.

Characters can say or do whatever.

Players must follow the rules.

It's not up to other players to ensure me or you as a player know the rules unless we are breaking them.

Make sense?

Yeah! It makes plenty sense

robbi320 wrote:

Aren't Red Wizards from Thay? (serious question)

I have to admit one thing thougj, I would be very likely to give a tell like that. Maybe that is something I can try to do better.

On the other hand, you might find Farija to react somewhat strongly to people with false claims, which Budly learnt.

I mean, in most cases, having wrong OOC knowledge isn't even too detrimental, since it essentially just is a lack of IC knowledge. I mean, if you don't know something OOC, you can just RP it as yout character knowing IC. I've only had this devolve into a real problem once. So, essentially, at least make sure you know about your characters' history. Your character doesn't need to know every single bit of FR geography.

They are from Thay!

And you know what the irony is? Budly IS a former Shadowflame captain and Mayor of Bendir Dale :lol:

But its all good when people do not believe the poor old bugger. Icly! :mrgreen:

My biggest problem is forgetting dieties, I mostly played on a Ravenloft server in the last years, recently returned to Amia and had a lot of FR lore forgotten.

You forgot Forgotten Realms lore? O.o

That Guy wrote:

(...) calling someone out ICly is completely appropriate. It's when we have to go OOC to "correct" people making outrageous claims that what I'm talking about is a problem.

Sure, there are some that don't know what's allowed to do and not allowed to do. Here's a good rule of thumb: Benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that player knows and they are just roleplaying instead of assuming they're new, or don't know, and having to be corrected.

Roleplaying information garnered ingame is not the same as collecting facts. As players, we know all the rules, have access to all the books and maps.

Let's address this since it is pretty much aimed at me.

Situation:
Saya randomly joins a discussion she wasn't part of (it's Saya..). It is about "age". Your character claims humans can -easily- live above 100 years old, even reach 130 (and higher). Saya reacts ICly, claims this is bull. <-- Everything is good at that point.

Behind the scene, I had Saya react the way she would react with her current knowledge, and then I decided to find out if what my character said was right (because Forgotten Realms lore is a big pile of stinking complicated sh** and it is probably possible that your char was right - I want to OOC know the truth). I alt tab 20 seconds, check human lifespan, find out their average lifespan is like 69, going max to 98 or so.

As I have the answer, I decide to very politely share with you what I found out, because there are two options as to why you would have said what you did.

- Option 1 - Your character is ICly wrong, and the player chose to roleplay it that way (good! -- ask other players what Saya thinks / thought how babies are made if you want a good example of that)

- Option 2 - Your character is wrong, because OOCly you are unaware of IC lore (this could have happened to me if what Saya said was wrong). AKA, if the player had known, the character could have had a different discourse - some characters are supposed to know more than their players about specific subjects. If your character is a wizard, chances are he/she is more intelligent and knowledgeable than you are so making mistakes is perfectly expected (more examples below).

Observations:
Given the situation, I do not think I did anything wrong, and I will do it again, and again, and again. The reason is extremely simple - I do not assume everyone to know everything that's included in the 1000000000000000 lore books of the Forgotten Realms setting, and as such, I want to share knowledge whenever I myself verify or acquire new one. I am a teacher in real life, teaching is what I do for a living. I also happen to have been dm in the past (not on Amia), and I have had -multiple- situations where I had to explain things to ignorant players.

Answering the quote directly:

- Calling someone IC is completely appropriate. Doing it politely in pm, checking whether the person is wrong or not is also. Informing them of what you found out -also- is (and probably should be encouraged, in my opinion, in order to avoid option 2 from happening). In my case, I never told you "You're wrong, change what you said.", I roleplayed the whole situation til the end, and only sent you what I found out was the right lore.

- Benefit of the doubt is sadly not a luxery I allow myself to have anymore. I have seen -horrible- things being said and done in my many years of Nwn playing. Heck, I did or said some too. Forgotten Realms lore is horribly complicated, and the multiple editions are not helping. For example, Saya reacted incredibly strongly against Morfred when she first met him (he wanted to know how Saya became "more fey"). I had Saya react that way because, to my knowledge, hags (and thus hagspawn) were unseelie fey. They are.. just not in this D&D edition. Way back then, I also thought Auril was The Queen of Air and Darkness. Because she is. Just, not on Amia's edition of D&D.

- No, not all players know the rules, have access to the books, etc. Most probably don't even care and some wish the entire setting would have been an original one that had its own world and rules, with no external books and editions telling you 1000000000 different things that sometimes contradict itself (that's my case.)

--------

As for the subject here

Personally, I used to like writing IC posts on forums, but I found out eventually these are rarely ever read. So I stopped seeing the point in writing them, and instead I focus on preparing other things (stories to tell in a player-driven event, for instance

)

Been in that situation. Always resolved with "ooc whoops pretend I said the right thing" because there would be no reason my 'character' would be wrong about it.

Never saw a fuss or a stink over it.

Last edited by That Guy on Sun, Apr 30 2017, 21:14 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Point proven, rule lawyering, having to prove you're right. My character is allowed to be wrong without you having to worry if I know it or not.

I give up.

PS, you came up on a conversation, not about age, and made it about age, interrupting the current conversation, a minor thing, but worth noting.

Yeah irl people just forget things when they don't, you know, live adjacent to a proposed 17 gods or something, and just stay inundated with lore.

Yeah, I walk around with an encyclopedia on my shoulders just so I can fact check everything people say.

*sigh*

To add my own input here: I was never much of a forum poster unless I needed to be. The only forum posts I made IC were sheer amusement or private faction forums and I felt like I spent to much time on them. My DM PMs also took some time but other than that I felt really uninspired to do that sort of format when I could be in game.

I don't look down on people who do it but it was never for me and I always felt inferior for it.

You shouldn't feel inferior, People RP in different ways. This thread is simply to encourage more RP, do not fear to write a post, do not fear to write it in game on a posting board and do not fear to play your character the way they should be, even if it renders ic conflict.

Budly wrote:

You shouldn't feel inferior, People RP in different ways. This thread is simply to encourage more RP, do not fear to write a post, do not fear to write it in game on a posting board and do not fear to play your character the way they should be, even if it renders ic conflict.

Also if ever in doubt about something, ask someone who might know. I've ask Lutra and Tarnus many questions about elves and drow. :mrgreen:

Budly wrote:

You shouldn't feel inferior, People RP in different ways. This thread is simply to encourage more RP, do not fear to write a post, do not fear to write it in game on a posting board and do not fear to play your character the way they should be, even if it renders ic conflict.

So I keep having an urge to post what Meri is up to in the desert, but then I look and the past three posts are by me... I feel like I am spamming the subforum.

Aerneth wrote:

So I keep having an urge to post what Meri is up to in the desert, but then I look and the past three posts are by me... I feel like I am spamming the subforum.

Eh. I had to make a Chillwyck forum post and it's me posting in there. It's nbd.

Indeed, never feel bad about that, especially if you want to use that for your PC projects.

Yeah, the same happened to me when posting what Bram was doing back there in Guldorand hahaha!

More IC forum posts!

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