AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Depends on how much preparation is needed basically.

People are different. there are different personalities that want different things for their own story. each person has his or her own different weaknesses.

The Little Dragon wrote:

People are different. there are different personalities that want different things for their own story. each person has his or her own different weaknesses.

The Little Dragon wrote:

I mean nothing like that. I mean going on the server and just talking to player. ask them what their character is and build up a relationship with them. It requires no code nor plot line.

The Little Dragon wrote:

I do not mean adding new stuff, but building complex story on an individual player basis and slowly working to bring progress to amia. I would even help you with this initiative.

What exactly are you asking about here? What is it you're saying you want?

Amia is a dm focus server, it needs a dm to run plots and whatnot. therefore, a dm is need to help everyone find their place in the server and help them grow their character to its fullest potential. No scripting is needed. just a player who is willing to progress further into the kind of story he wants. In the sense, it is to help character become creative in their own way.

Such as your play style is more of a killer player style, you want to hunt things and kill them while trying to not get caught.

I haven't done any player killing in the better part of a year, starting before my absence began, and haven't done a 'hit' in much longer before that, as my last 'hit' was right about the time the evil dragon faction began and didn't even have a name yet. My 'lust' for pvp is nothing but exaggeration.

Second, do you just want people to help you find you place? Because man I tried helping you on multiple characters and you just flaked every time. I told you i'd break my kobold out of retirement (a character I said I'd never play again barring extreme situations) if you found him, sent a bunch of pm's to players that 'knew' him in case anyone came asking about my kobold or where he left to, and despite telling you I did all this and did that work and consulted DM's to arrange a meeting between us in the place that CorXak is specifically, you didn't talk to a soul and just didn't do it. I invited you into the fort and into our faction to try and help you find a place, and you just never came back. I also offered to take you in as my apprentice on my wizard and you didn't take me up on it. I did all this because I saw you pretty frequently alone and rejected by other groups as a player.

Like, I get that perhaps the 'fort' wasn't a good fit but I tried to help you, specifically, on Soren, more then once, find your place.

Is that what this is about? How much more help do you need?

I think he is looking for more personal interaction between DMs and PCs.

If you want that, you need to take the initiative and ask for the more personal development plots.
There's a lot of little random things DM will do, but they're generally more class specific, if they know your character's class. But for the more personal things, you need to make it known you want that, and set it up. It's not up to the DMs to decide the path your character takes, they might present IC options that have a profound effect on personal development, but in the end, you make the choices for your characters. If you want something specific, you need to voice it.

I believe I now understand what needs done. If you are in favor of changing amia, everyone make a character and converge into a faction IG with this goal in mind. I would suggest a faction in cordor that works to rebuild it in its image, since out of all the settlements, it is the worst off.

I try to help with that with the adventurer guild actually.

Which is also great for new DMs (not just new players) to get a feel for things and start with small one time events.

Anyways, I love personal plots. I prefer them far above huge, massive server plots (though I realize those are wanted to, so I try to do some of each).

As for the earlier question if you can just ask IG, sure. Wether it can be done on the spot however depends on 2 things. 1. Is the DM already running something atm and 2. is it something we can do on the fly or is it something we have to prepare for. Usually if you go to a place on Amia that actually exists we can do it on the fly as the area and NPC are already in the game. If it is not a place on Amia it depends on if we have a DM area that is sufficiently close to what you are looking for.

Beep boop, time for some input

Note: I've not been active for a couple of months due to IRL, so a lot of this is purely on observations before July.

Currently Amia is stuck in a catch 22. At the moment of my writing it is 12pm BST (Gmt+1) and I only see 2 people on each server. Here's the issue: If I log on, it will take one server up to 3. The other two people may have characters mine may not be able to interact with or meeting with them may feel forced, or maybe they're both independent people just doing some leveling. The issue is, more likely than not if I log on I will not have much to offer in interaction. Which then turns to my second point, if the server is RP first, videogame second, then when there is an absence of one, the other must really back it up. So think about it for a second, a lot of the server was really not made to be solo'd. Can a lot of builds solo a lot of content in the game? Sure, but also a lot of builds especially support types can not. If we want to make leveling up an "experience" yet we have no other to experience it with, what do we do then?

When you log on to fill these numbers, what you can actually do on the server is quite limited. The issue is even prevented if I was a DM logging on with these two people. When I was DMing for most of this year so far, a lot of my playtime was during this time of day. I'd normally see anywhere from 0-5 from 8am my time until around 6pm on weekdays. Springing up random events for some of these people worked well... though a lot more often than not they didn't. A lot of these players were grinding or engaging in one-on-one RP I could offer nothing but simply observe. "Well this is when you can follow their storyline and reward them with DCs!" I hear you cry. I always did and I got to know a lot about the players who mainly played during this time's backgrounds. However... as a DM, there's not much I found I could offer them to enhance their experience. Normally an NPC would overhear what was said and add something or maybe they're in an inn and I would have the barmaid come over and offer them drinks.

While it sounds like I've gone around in circles here, my point is this: Without bolstered numbers the interactions are nearly always planned and unorganic. Even with DMs being active around these times this is still the case pretty much. A lot of the bandaiding for Amia has to come during these times, as when it is due to pick up people may not be willing to log in due to the low numbers from the quieter period.

Yes, there's lots of other factors affecting players logging in (Issues with other players/dms, being factionless or even overburdened with a faction, or even just having IRL issues or just wanting to play another game) but I feel if we get more players actually logging in we can get a bit more communication going. Both OOC and IC.

Kamina we miss you, come back.

thetangerinetornado wrote:

Kamina we miss you, come back.

<3 Sorry, sickly little baby eating up all my time and moving house soon, hope to be on a bit more in a few months

Kamina wrote:

However... as a DM, there's not much I found I could offer them to enhance their experience. Normally an NPC would overhear what was said and add something or maybe they're in an inn and I would have the barmaid come over and offer them drinks.

I know where you aim, but I have to admit that these little NPC interactions are something I enjoy very much, I mean I'm one of those crazy folks that always talk to the NPC and makes interaction when buying/selling from them, because sometimes there may be a DM behind doing stuff!
It's a little thing but, as has been said before, sometimes that really helps to make the world more "alive", so don't think that little things are useless or not wanted, because they really make a difference

Just giving update. We are making some pretty great head way on a few projects.

I am hoping that with in a few weeks, or sooner, ill finish my faction area iteration for you all to go break.

Maverick00053 wrote:

Just giving update. We are making some pretty great head way on a few projects.

I am hoping that with in a few weeks, or sooner, ill finish my faction area iteration for you all to go break.

let me know when it goes live and with your permission I'll try to actually 'break' it for debugging purposes.

Are we talking about the pvp island idea?

May I ask, what is the IC reason for anyone going to a PvP island? Is there resources? Something essential? What will make factions and cities and advenutrers and mercs and so on go there?

Because it's a videogame and it sounds fucking fun to play.

MisterLich wrote:

Because it's a videogame and it sounds fucking fun to play.

I play about a dozen games on and off. The PvP batch I can get in like atleast 6 of those games. I am on NWN only for the roleplay and world building/world evolution and so on.

Then don't go to the island?

MisterLich wrote:

Then don't go to the island?

We already have a player base that is low. If people all gonna run off to fight battles of 0 worth it will make the RP even harder to find. This is why I want to know what the IC stuff will be about on the island. I hope it isn't just an World of Warcraft like PvP zone we fight on for no reason.

The faction system won't just be solely applied to this island but the island is under development.

Maverick00053 wrote:

The faction system won't just be solely applied to this island but the island is under development.

From what I read here it be more than just a pvp island, It makes it sound so non RP when people say PvP island. Might be interesting!

I'm just saying, there's plenty of rp opportunity for an island where pvp is rampant and has consequences. D&D is built on conflict, death, power, and struggle.

Just out of curiosity, on this island, will we still have to give people an out, or can we finally just have a goal to kill someone (maybe they're a political dissident on your island) and then go kill them?

Only on the island of course, not talking about Amia in general.

For the island, and only the island itself we are considering lightening the pvp rules considerably. We are developing the lore and the area as we speak.

Sounds rad

So, I have hesitated a long time to say anything. For many reasons, the biggest as I noticed whenever I tried to speak now or in the past it always went horribly wrong or was taken wrong. But, I feel that it is time for me to do it and damn what anyone else thinks.

I personally think Amia is lacking in a lot of areas. The biggest is activity. We are so active on the "forums" and somehow can manage to make posts like mad (Whether it be flaming ones, constructive ones, ic ones or whatever..) but we lack the numbers in game. We spend so much time writing on the forums that we neglect the actual game. This is something I have noticed since the day I started Amia. It drives me personally as a role player insane. It is so hard to take a game seriously as a game when 90% of it is written on a blog like forums.

This may sound bad of me to say, but in truth I find it takes away from the game itself. It kills the need to play, advance, adventure or build or anything on Neverwinter nights itself. We as players who pride in avoiding being bored cannot help but ask ourselves "What is the point in playing? If when we do amounts to nothing?". This is our greatest downfall, and until it stops it wont matter what you do in or for the server it will not go up in numbers. I say this because it is fact, if we don't play but instead "post" about playing then are we really playing at all? Activity comes from being active and creating stuff not writing about the stuff you never actually did. Otherwise we are a book, not a game. A story, no a interactive world.

That to me is the biggest issue, the others are small in comparison. But I do admit, over the years the server lacks balance, story-line and advancement. My own offers of help have been turned down in pretty much every way possible, but it is not my first server or my first time seeing this. So take it how you wish, if you want the server to be active. Then be active in game, not on forums. Actually make an effort to change the server, not write about how or what you would like to see. That is my two cents.

Sorry if I am beating a broken drum here, or being oddly blunt. But people, come on. Stop being on the forums so much, get in game and play and for gods sake stop being mean to others. That is all I wish to say. Going to try actually playing the game now, see how it goes. Those who want to role play, by all means join in. Take care.

Started to work on an IC Quest-Guide as a help for new players (and maybe some old ones who never knew of them!). I figured the best location is the adventuring guild who posts repeating job offers.

It's a bit of work, we have quite a few quests.

I will make another post when I am done, so you can send me messages in case I forgot something afterall.

Please do not send me messages about missing quests before I make that post I know there are some missing atm, I will need 1-3 days to finish it all!

It isnt just people not wanting to go IG because everything is on the forums, and sometimes even behind closed doors. but also because many have lost their drive to play it, which has left them not wanting to get on. Some people still want to play this server, but feel personally that it would be a waste of their time. Now, we will have to see where the changes go, but I do not see creating yet another island that takes away from the core focus of amia itself, while also creating a new lore system, new plotlines and whatnot. But, we will see how it goes.

What's the point in a PvP island, why not just create an arena and run occasional PvP events? Is it really not possible to make it part of one of the current modules?

Just my 0.5p worth..

But hey if enough people want it then go with the majority...

We already have that.

Plenty PvP tournaments were ran already.

There's a big difference between an arena fight and the wild-west style feel that would come with something like a 'pvp island' because pvp wouldn't be the only thing about it, merely a bigger part of it. It's all in setting, my dear :wink:

Also you do not have to go there if it is not your thing. But you can, if it is. We try to tend all playstyles a bit.

There will be other changes too, not just that.

Fair enough - different horses for different courses.

In all my time playing NWN and games like CoH amongst others, I've always grown to hate the PvP part of things, usually because it turned into something toxic. Perhaps with a smaller, controllable player base this won't happen and it could actually work.

Good luck out there!

Hah, you wish that, don't you. PvP toxicity is/was a major problem here.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Also you do not have to go there if it is not your thing.

I know selfquotes are dirty but...

I'm very interested to see how it turns out, having seen the sneak peak. Some people like NWN for PvP. I wouldn't say it's not my thing, I loved Arena and Capture-the-Flag servers when I started playing NWN. But that was the context of the server. For a persistent world server it always seemed odd to me when people occasionally asked "what's the strongest build/I wanna be good at PvP." It's like you're entering a parade float competition and worrying about your car's top speed. Not entirely unrelated, no, but it's not really the point of the whole thing either.

I do see this being a success and a lot of fun as long as people keep that in mind: context. You're not going to Amia's Barbary Coast to make some sort of settlement or claim that you might make elsewhere. The avenues for that sort of thing are still open everywhere else. Someone mentioned before that DMs must resist the urge to intervene to make it work, but I think players are more of the concern. Check expectations of permanence and solely RP-driven advancement at the door, enjoy it for what it is, and I think we all benefit greatly. And yes, as Ama said, if you don't like WWE Smackdown Island, you don't have to go to WWE Smackdown Island. The rest of the module will march along as it did before.

There is a problem I believe may be relevant. Each different group of people who enjoy their own little different kinds of rp, if one group predominated over the others, which made it so the other groups did not have enough to be self sufficient, wouldn't that lead to player decline?

Because offering more flavors at the ice cream parlor leads to fewer customers?

No. That won't be the case at all. I'm not even sure how the scenario you're postulating comes about. Alright, this new attraction has brought more people onto the server. Let's say I am a player who likes our current set up. Well, considering I was here before without interacting with these players, and how what they're attracted to is pretty removed from anything I might be engaged in(see: don't wanna go to PvP island/don't have to go to PvP island), it shouldn't affect me at all. Most of are players now have actually been around at our higher numbers, so I doubt many if any start leaving if we become more popular. Generally speaking, Amia is pretty open to different sorts of RP even if the players themselves don't want to join in. For all our accusations of cliqueiness, players usually don't go barging into other people's RP and telling them to stop. The usual case is players simply not reciprocating the RP and the other party becoming discouraged. Latter party then sometimes feel like they're being "told" how to RP, but it's really people saying they'd rather not be a part of it, right or wrong. That's a different discussion in itself, but the hypothetical you present there doesn't happen or at least hasn't happened as far as I can remember. Very rarely have people left over additions. More often they've left because of something being removed, be it areas, feats, build combinations, or sources of RP.

Anyway, what I see this initiative doing, more than anything most likely, is: bringing about a few older players, inspiring some less active ones to log back on, and maybe attracting some new ones. Historically, this is the case, the start of the spell changes last fall being a pretty recent example.

Well as said, not the only thing we are working on.

We are working on some plots, started some already.

Recruiting new DM for covering that part better.

Adding new dungeons and improving old ones.

Some of the citys are also on the agenda for plots and some change.

Things do need a little time tho, it is quite a bit of work there. Luckily we have a few devs who are very motivated and pour hours and hours into helping out with it all.

Update for transparency!

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

We are working on some plots, started some already.

Recruiting new DM for covering that part better.

Done! (though of course still always on the lookout)

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Adding new dungeons and improving old ones.

Some of the citys are also on the agenda for plots and some change.

Things are progressing better than anticipated!

Also!
- Also finally updated the Personnel. one is still missing but will be added soon.

- Fancy new things added (Heads!)

- Epic Loot-Bin additions are pretty much done on paper, end of this week I will release a sneak-peak along with a contest for the player-base. You can submit Names and bio's for the new items and some of the best ones will be chosen then. Have some influence on the history of these fancy new items!

Ok so, I cannot ask player rp styles, how they like to rp, and anything else of the players. But I can state things about the dm team and whatnot?

I am confused. I believe this is a community over an individual group.However, the more I interact with you guys, the more authoritarian you seem to be.

-.- no one said you can't, I explained you twice now, that a topic about the same thing, with even the same name, already existed. And to use thatone instead of making a second, identical topic.

The Little Dragon wrote:

Ok so, I cannot ask player rp styles, how they like to rp, and anything else of the players. But I can state things about the dm team and whatnot?

I am confused. I believe this is a community over an individual group.However, the more I interact with you guys, the more authoritarian you seem to be.

Feel free to ask me anything but have in mind that I don't have to answer everything! Some mystery is still required to play the game! :mrgreen:

The Little Dragon wrote:

Ok so, I cannot ask player rp styles, how they like to rp, and anything else of the players. But I can state things about the dm team and whatnot?

I am confused. I believe this is a community over an individual group.However, the more I interact with you guys, the more authoritarian you seem to be.

It's nothing like that man. It's exceedingly simple.

We have a lot of threads made already on the same general topics.

Let's use one of the many topics we have open to discuss these issues. If we keep making new ones every couple of days, it makes impossible to actually build the discussion, as well as incredibly difficult to keep up with people actually want us to do. Have a good suggestion? Let's hope the Devs and DMs find it in the 8 threads that have come up in the past month.

It's not an authoritarian thing dude, because I even told you as much on the first topic you had locked. You've got some good ideas, you've sparked a lot of damn good discussion, but when it comes to this, no one is attacking you or singling you out, man. It's basic forum protocol and it's there to make sure shit gets done, rather than have us tread the same water over and over.

The Little Dragon wrote:

There is a problem I believe may be relevant. Each different group of people who enjoy their own little different kinds of rp, if one group predominated over the others, which made it so the other groups did not have enough to be self sufficient, wouldn't that lead to player decline?

Yes, which is part of why I left. People here don't like to pvp, the server's bordering on a Social Server. I've had a minor plot in the past to kidnap someone and sacrifice them to Anthraxus, for IC reasons that you get to figure out in game, and enacted this with the help of someone else, and we FAILED, and we still got shat on OOC by a "respected member of the community" for no reason.

The PvP island is the only reason I'd come back. It adds mechanics that sound like things I'd enjoy, along with being a hub for the type of people I'd like to play with (people that enjoy fighting).

MisterLich wrote:

The Little Dragon wrote:

There is a problem I believe may be relevant. Each different group of people who enjoy their own little different kinds of rp, if one group predominated over the others, which made it so the other groups did not have enough to be self sufficient, wouldn't that lead to player decline?

Yes, which is part of why I left. People here don't like to pvp, the server's bordering on a Social Server. I've had a minor plot in the past to kidnap someone and sacrifice them to Anthraxus, for IC reasons that you get to figure out in game, and enacted this with the help of someone else, and we FAILED, and we still got shat on OOC by a "respected member of the community" for no reason.

The PvP island is the only reason I'd come back. It adds mechanics that sound like things I'd enjoy, along with being a hub for the type of people I'd like to play with (people that enjoy fighting).

I think that for 'fighting' to be fun it needs to be meaningful. Running around and killing the same character over and over with no real consequence makes it tiring fairly quickly.

Alaria- wrote:

MisterLich wrote:

The Little Dragon wrote:

There is a problem I believe may be relevant. Each different group of people who enjoy their own little different kinds of rp, if one group predominated over the others, which made it so the other groups did not have enough to be self sufficient, wouldn't that lead to player decline?

Yes, which is part of why I left. People here don't like to pvp, the server's bordering on a Social Server. I've had a minor plot in the past to kidnap someone and sacrifice them to Anthraxus, for IC reasons that you get to figure out in game, and enacted this with the help of someone else, and we FAILED, and we still got shat on OOC by a "respected member of the community" for no reason.

The PvP island is the only reason I'd come back. It adds mechanics that sound like things I'd enjoy, along with being a hub for the type of people I'd like to play with (people that enjoy fighting).

I think that for 'fighting' to be fun it needs to be meaningful. Running around and killing the same character over and over with no real consequence makes it tiring fairly quickly.

Sure.

That's not really what I was talking about but sure.

Also I personally find fighting fun in and of itself anyway.

People who like "social RP" aren't completely averse to conflict from what I've seen. They just don't subscribe to the notion that every goddamn argument should and must come to blows and death. I jive with that, as a storyteller; purposeful and measured uses of violence keep things from turning into a Tarantino parody. And it's hard to pull off in NWN because there really are few great methods of subdual except "killing" someone and saying you knocked them out afterwards. Maybe you can use the dicebag for a few mock pushes and shoves, but it's not ideal.

People who like PvP aren't completely averse to non-murder roleplay. They just like the mechanics of the game, testing what they can do, and having something else to fight other than the ancient AI. I totally get that and there are other games I play for that exact reason(just not ones where I feel RNGsus is more important than my actual reaction time). Through no fault of their own, players who like PvPing tend to get a bad rap, because of the general negative interaction mechanical conflict is IC(no one cheers at being mugged, murdered, lynched). I've said it about Evil and Chaotic PCs but it's true here too: if your only possible interaction with someone is a negative one, your opinion of them is going to be a negative one.

Players who like to PvP and don't feel others want to: put a little work into it. Have some foreplay, you know. Historically, there have been PvP... aficionados I'll call them, who show up and immediately want to blow their murder-load. Have some class. Be a gentlemenbastard. Don't expect to murder on your first date. Build it up a bit, and you'll find that others who might normally not care for PvP will be willing to because the story has led them there. And it'll be better for both parties. Be willing to walk away from the first few encounters without sticking your sword in someone. But when you finally do, don't forget the aftercare! Say "good game" afterwards. Be cordial. Give advice, "yo, you had me there for a second, but potions trigger AoO. Keep it in mind." Call back in a few days. If you want others to get joy out of PvP, you have to show and explain how you yourself get joy out of it. You do that by making it clear that the conflict and contest is between your PCs and not you as players.

Players who are scared to death of PvP: dude, it's cool. Everyone is nervous their first few times. But eventually, most people do it. And it's okay if you're not great! You'll live(again)! Just be willing to learn. No one is here to hurt you or diminish your character or your story. In fact, they're trying to add to it and build it with you. Violence is a part of the world and it is more likely that it'll cross your path than not. Even if you don't feel the RP leading to the fight is that great, you have the chance to make it great, yes, even in defeat if it comes to that. Consider death "pointless" or not, it's the conflict that matters in the end. What matters is you tried, you have a story to tell, and it'll get easier and more natural the more that you do it, however rare and far between those meetings are. If you love RP, then you love story-building, and that means accepting events into your story that may not be exactly what you're looking for. But you can roll with it, just like getting swatted down in a DM event or rebuffed by that cute Half-Pixie Force Dragon Disciple at the market.

There. That's all the sex-as-murder metaphors I got in me today. But you get the point. This isn't some warm and fuzzy kumbaya, it's basic ass group dynamics. We're all fuckin' geeks playing electronic D&D. We can all stand to get over ourselves just a wee bit and be more flexible when it comes to how we wish to play the game and how we can play it with others.

Calling it "social RP" just because people aren't overly fond of pvp is just as derogatory as calling people who enjoy pvp "pvp junkies", and I don't much approve of either. They're both equally valid RP stuff and it boils down to how you want to RP out your character and their goals.

Now I personally don't enjoy repeated PvP conflicts involving the same people because it gets old really really fast. I've been on the giving and receiving end of this several times over the years and there's a disconnect between the finality that should come with a fight, and the fact that everyone will always come back and do it again a day later, so you can win 7 fights against an antagonist, but the eight fight goes south and they finally win and then it stops. It's what made long drawn out conflicts involving a lot of pvp unpopular back in the day. It's what made both the Banites and the Eternal Order unpopular, and it tends to lead to a crap ton of toxicity no matter how you turn it around.

Now I personally think the PvP island idea can be a really fun one and lead to some interesting stuff, both in terms of character development and because it's going to be a "new set of rules" for players to play around with and see how they feel about it.

You're listing reasons why I don't like Amia.

Yes, pvp has no final resolution.

No, I don't like the style of RP most of you guys who dislike much pvp, enjoy.

This is why I'm not interested in playing unless there's some way to cater to people who actually enjoy pvp and letting mechanics rule whether or not a villain is successful. (And by the way, most villainous PC's I've made have failed, so it's not like I am expecting to always win. I just enjoy fighting. It's the journey, not the destination.)

I'm taking a break from EFU because I like variety (and got my shit kicked in several times in a few days

) but overall I like the fact that characters permanently die on that server. That solves almost every problem with "pvp has no meaning and no resolution" that I'm hearing, and it makes pvp important.

Amia will never do that. People are too attached to their characters emotionally.

So the pvp island is the next best thing.

I'll never agree with the style of drama, dialogue, and socializing, and literal-essay-long-roleplaying that a lot of people here enjoy. That's fine. You don't have to enjoy pvping a lot either.

But the victory of your style over my style of playing, and lack - currently - of my playstyle even being useful, is high on my list of "why Amia isn't fun."

If we have a PvP island I will spend time there and I will get to pvp a lot, and be the kind of villain I enjoy being - an action-taker, not a plotter.

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