AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hello, I have a question. Mainly what happens to someone is trying to true resurrect who is alive? does the spell do nothing? I was told by someone it could act like a telaport spell if the person is alive and basically port the person who a cleric is trying to true resurrect to the cleric. So I am basically just wondering what happens to someone who is alive but a cleric is trying to resurrect with true resurrect.

Im pretty sure to do a true resurrection, the Cleric needs the body or part of the body there. If the person is alive and missing a limb, I'd think the spell does nothing. That is what Greater Restoration is for. A Cleric wouldn't go through the effort and I doubt its diety would allow the spell to even work on target thats alive.

[Edit] The Teleporting thing would be if the body was in pieces, say the killer kept his head for a trophy. In a true ressurection that head would be teleported back to the body with the cleric.

Resurrection can bring a persons toenail back to life if that is all you can manage to grab from the dying person, true resurrection is different.

Quote:

True Resurrection
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 9
Casting Time: 10 minutes

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you can resurrect a creature that has been dead for as long as 10 years per caster level. This spell can even bring back creatures whose bodies have been destroyed, provided that you unambiguously identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method).

Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of level (or Constitution points) or prepared spells.

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Even true resurrection can’t restore to life a creature who has died of old age.
Material Component

A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth a total of at least 25,000 gp.

that being said, I don't think this spell would be used so lightly as to teleport someone to the cleric, you'd be making sure you had a darn good reason to ask your god to be using the spell, and be darn sure they were dead......

Simply put, you can't resurrect someone who hasn't died. The spell would fail.

Khylaria wrote:

Simply put, you can't resurrect someone who hasn't died. The spell would fail.

No teleporting BS, and I will backhand whoever told you that for being an idiot. If someone is true ressurected, the "leftover bodyparts" turn to ash. Same for Ressurection.

True resurection to me only means one thing: level stripping!

True Ressurection is the only ressurection that doesn't incur level loss or constitution loss, actually.

Bah... I must have been thinking of Miracle and Wish then.

Neither give level stripping except a prohibitively large XP cost in the case of the caster of Wish and Miracle.

Ah, so the max age of the true resurection opbject is 10x30=300

So part of the elven people cant be ressurected, nor can be some faeries, I know at least three of those. any human can be resurected..

But if your chasr is good and hes goddess/god hates evil servants. Then the god shouldnt allow the evil char to be resurexted by good cleric, yah?

Magiros wrote:

Ah, so the max age of the true resurection opbject is 10x30=300

So part of the elven people cant be ressurected, nor can be some faeries, I know at least three of those. any human can be resurected..

But if your chasr is good and hes goddess/god hates evil servants. Then the god shouldnt allow the evil char to be resurexted by good cleric, yah?

It's not the age of the person that matters, merely the amount of time they've been dead (unless, of course, they died of old age) ... so yo can raise someone who has been up to 300 years deceased.

It's a lovely spell.

TormakSaber wrote:

Khylaria wrote:

Simply put, you can't resurrect someone who hasn't died. The spell would fail.

No teleporting BS, and I will backhand whoever told you that for being an idiot. If someone is true ressurected, the "leftover bodyparts" turn to ash. Same for Ressurection.

Which means in theory you could teleport with that to you, but they would be confsued as hell, it would be unorthodox, and I think the gods would not like that. Besides, there are more efficiant ways of cumminicating over distance.

Since the memories from the time when they lost the toenail will only be there will they have no idea what happened and the rest of the people will get shocked for life when the person they were adventuring with suddenly turns to ash in front of their eyes. Bonus points when the sun is about to rise and the person said she didn't felt that good.

You know.. a high priest of Corellon Larethian managed to ressurect an elven champion of Myth Drannor some 660 years after the city's fall. So story allows for exceptions in the rule. Just boasting my lorez, not contributing anything to the discussion!

She was lvl 66. *Nods*

Also, you think about the Diety of Cleric. I doubt any diety of death would want a soul taken back unless becoming an undead.. :twisted:

Same with Lolthites, Banite, etc.
Those Dieties would not release a true Ress ''This old soul is mine forever!'' yada yada yada

IMO, of course

IronAngel wrote:

You know.. a high priest of Corellon Larethian managed to ressurect an elven champion of Myth Drannor some 660 years after the city's fall. So story allows for exceptions in the rule. Just boasting my lorez, not contributing anything to the discussion!

Ooh! I've read that one!

The Last Mythal series! xD

It was a He too.. the main chars.. girlfriends father.. none of whos names i can remember.

Not so sure about that Iteries. Bane would probably prefer his clerics back to full life then undead. Simply because undead have a hard time blending in with people, and generally cause quite an unlawful stir among the populace.

Then there is Kelemvor of course, the grand daddy of death diety's, and we know he'd rather have his followers return via resurection spells then undead. Infact, he'd probably throw a grand hissy if they came back undead.

Undead have a hard time spreading the faith of thier diety.

I see mention of souls being taken and undead. undead are animated corpses through negative energy, no souls involved.

Unless the undead turned themself into undead, such as a Lich

Even then, the soul is kept in a phylactery ad is not in the undead or "powering" it.

Of course, you can use Trap the Soul to stop someone from being raised by any means ... their soul is stuck.

But one can annihilate a body entirely and True Resurrection will still work ... but what happens when someone's body is raised as undead? You need to destroy the undead before you can cast the spell don't you?

Quote:

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Magiros wrote:

Ah, so the max age of the true resurection opbject is 10x30=300

So part of the elven people cant be ressurected, nor can be some faeries, I know at least three of those. any human can be resurected..

But if your chasr is good and hes goddess/god hates evil servants. Then the god shouldnt allow the evil char to be resurexted by good cleric, yah?

The true res max 300 years dead thing, no. 300 isn't the max! on amia, yes

.
And the god has nothing to do with the way you cast your spells per se, let me explain before you scream at me. Once a Cleric has prepared his spells they are stuck in his mind and he may cast them as he will, hence if you made your god really mad after you'd already prepared for the day, you can still cast them!

Also.. if you're a lich, your phylactery is crunched and you die and wanna come back by the spell, you just lost 4,800 exp, and 120,000 gold! :O plus the likely charge of 25,000 gp for the diamonds for the spell >.>

My ten cents!

Well if you prepared for other purpose than you use it for, then the god would mind.

No god lets hes/hers clerics/priests to missuse their divine power. So you bet on it that there will be a cost on it.

Thought in amia I have seen pallys to missuse their deities powers. A good god wouldnt let you resurect hes/hers worst enemies servants, no matter whether or not your char own to this dead char.

I'm sorry to bother, but I was also seeing the undead stuff and junk.

Just to add to what Torm' said, COMMON Undead (Skeletons and Zombies) are animated corpses. No souls.

UNCOMMON and thus SENTIENT Undead (Wights, Ghouls, Shadows, Specters, Liches, uhm.. Too lazy to think of more) do include souls. Specters and junk being manifested ghostie souls, shadows being the same except they're crazy shadow people now, and Ghouls being undead CREATED via Self Propagation (Bite & Kill), Spells, Gods, or the rare case where they kind'a just pop up on their own (Which can be assumed the work of a god again though) like almost all the other sentient undead.

ANYHOO: The point is I believe/assume a True Resurrection spell can bring the soul of a person who's corpse had been turned into an COMMON undead (Aka Skeleton/Zombie) but not a Sentient Undead (As their soul was incorporated then).

But this is just BS assumptions coming from a guy that studies the behind the scenes mechanics and possible explanations of everything arcane and divine..

I REPEAT - The statement after the ANYHOO is simply my personal assumption and translation of the spell's text. So don't stab me please. ._.

*Kicks a puppy before he dies so he can be considered false, but only just false enough so he can be a street sweeper in the city of the dead*

Patron deity's approval is always necessary to gain divine spells, though this isn't clearly stated in the rules. Resurrection is always a serious thing the cleric gives a lot of thought to, before acting. While the god might not outright deny the spell, the responsibility is the cleric's and he may face consequence for doing the wrong decision. Being granted divine power is always a test of sorts, and you answer to your deity for your use of it. A deity can deny your prepared spell outright, but you wouldn't be much of a cleric if (s)he had to.

Musashi wrote:

ANYHOO: The point is I believe/assume a True Resurrection spell can bring the soul of a person who's corpse had been turned into an COMMON undead (Aka Skeleton/Zombie) but not a Sentient Undead (As their soul was incorporated then).

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Musashi wrote:

ANYHOO: The point is I believe/assume a True Resurrection spell can bring the soul of a person who's corpse had been turned into an COMMON undead (Aka Skeleton/Zombie) but not a Sentient Undead (As their soul was incorporated then).

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Just to understand what you mean by simply quoting two pieces, we're taking the literal text instead of possible interpretations in this case?

Not that there is anything wrong with such, as I'd prefer it in many cases (And its really what you should do anyhoo) - Just wished to offer an interpretation I've seen taken before.

[Note as much sarcasm that might be in this brief text, this is simply requesting clarification of random quote referencing]

EDIT [Clarifying my original point a bit]:
I only posted due to the fact that if you raise someone's corpse as a Skeleton or Zombie, you're not turning the INDIVIDUAL into an Undead - But simply their CORPSE.
While on the other hand then if they were a Wight, the INDIVIDUAL is a Wight then, not just their corpse - So then yes the spell wouldn't work.
But simply requesting DM Clarification if the spell would work on a Soul who is not being used in an Undead - But who's CORPSE is animated.

You'd still recite their name, time of death, location, yadah yadah - And their soul would still be free in the Fugue plane. Makes little sense if the spell wouldn't work in the case.
'
True Ressurection!
Some Gai!
Died in this exact spot.
Three weeks ago last night at 7:30 pm.
'
"GOD: Well, I'm sorry.. I've got his Spirit right here, but his body is roaming a graveyard all dead like.."
'But I thought the spell makes'm a new body! D: '
"Newp! Hah, Of course not! Tough luck, go kill'm and ask me again later!"

(Cry)

I think it's rather symbolic needing to slay their undead form befoe ressurecting them. Put some backbone into it. Then rip out his.

I understand how Poetics make for a more fun Thingymajig - But I'm simply speaking Mechanically.

Well, the spell is quite clear. You cannot raise anyone who is currently undead.

But the Individual ISN'T an UNDEAD. Their CORPSE is.

Soul-
"Hi, I'm Bob! I'm dead and I'm in the afterlife!"
Body-
"... Nahm.."
Soul-
"Ew, thats just nasty! I'm very glad I wasn't turned into a Wight! Then I'd be down there as well!"

Edit [Again]:
Ah well, I've sidetracked this convo' too much. If I ever have to question True Resurrection's mechanics I might bring it up again for a big ol' brainstorm. Back to throwing zombies at people! (Except I can't because I can't make a Zombie on Amia.. .. >: )

The corpse is the undead at the moment, and that's what you are trying to raise. "An individual who is turend undead". Can't be raised. you need to append "and then destroyed" to be ablle to raise them. Quite clear.

But you're -not- raising the corpse, you're raising the Soul into a new body gifted by the True Resurrection Spell!
*Dashes back to kicking swamp thingies in the face*

To help for Tormak.

Whenever you ressurect someone, you're returning the Soul to their own Body. Raise Dead sort of patches them up, Ressuection fully heals the body, and True Ressurection, returns an entire body to its perfect state - even if you don't have the body in the first place.

However, each of these processes uses the original body (Hence why, upon raising, any 'stolen' limbs are turned to dust once the original owner of the part is raised. If you take someone's head, and then they get raised off in the future, that head turns to ash).

This process cannot occur, however, if that original body or anything attuned to it (IE, any undead created using that body whether physically or utilizing ethereal types of undead) is currently affected or afflicted with negative energy such as occurs as long as an undead is alive. It just doesn't work.

In short.

IF that body has been used to make an undead, and that undead is still alive, you cannot raise that individual.

Wagh, Thank you WonWon! Even though your point is against mine, that is exactly what I like to see when people refute something I imply!

Again, thank you for the clarification.

That raises a question for me.

If the body that's being true resurected contains external parts, (for example a cleric's performed a transplant or someone has a magically animated augmetic limb) would these external parts be destroyed and replaced by the True Resurected person's originals?

I understood it so that raising an undead, even a sentient one, destroys the undead, and further effect depends on the age of the creature.

One that is past its lifespan is returned to afterlife, but a young creature who was destroyed before their time is returned to true life.

Dun remember where I learned such bold ideas.

I'd be really nice to have someone roleplay the Druid spell Reincarnation and then come back as a completely different PC.

Okay, so basically in my opinion, if you cast true resureect on an undead person, would that not bring the soul into the undead body? Thus creating a wight. Though that would of course rely on the persons soul agreeing to go back, it more then likely, would not. But if for some reason it did, then wight time?

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Okay, so basically in my opinion, if you cast true resureect on an undead person, would that not bring the soul into the undead body? Thus creating a wight. Though that would of course rely on the persons soul agreeing to go back, it more then likely, would not. But if for some reason it did, then wight time?

Body is undead, spell fails.

soundofastream wrote:

I'd be really nice to have someone roleplay the Druid spell Reincarnation and then come back as a completely different PC. :)

You'd probably need a tonne of DCs and a really nice or really mean DM, depending on what result you're after =D

How about a d100 and a random table?

That's how the spell is.

TormakSaber wrote:

How about a d100 and a random table?

That's how the spell is. ;)

A nice PnP game - Elven High Mage has it cast and became a juvenile troglodyte >.>

Yurell wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

How about a d100 and a random table?

That's how the spell is.

A nice PnP game - Elven High Mage has it cast and became a juvenile troglodyte >.>

Maybe I can use this to get that Umberhulk PC I always wanted... =P

d100 Incarnation Str Dex Con
01 Bugbear +4 +2 +2
02–13 Dwarf +0 +0 +2
14–25 Elf +0 +2 –2
26 Gnoll +4 +0 +2
27–38 Gnome –2 +0 +2
39–42 Goblin –2 +2 +0
43–52 Half-elf +0 +0 +0
53–62 Half-orc +2 +0 +0
63–74 Halfling –2 +2 +0
75–89 Human +0 +0 +0
90–93 Kobold –4 +2 –2
94 Lizardfolk +2 +0 +2
95–98 Orc +4 +0 +0
99 Troglodyte +0 –2 +4
100 Other

Or

d100 Race
01-02 Aasimar
03-04 Bugbear
05 Centaur
06-07 Dromite
08 Drow
09-12 Dwarf, Deep
13-17 Dwarf, Hill
18-20 Dwarf, Mountain
21-22 Duergar
23-25 Elan
26-28 Elf, Gray
29-33 Elf, High
34-36 Elf, Wild
37-39 Elf, Wood
40-41 Gnoll
42-44 Gnome, Forest
45-49 Gnome, Rock
50-52 Goblin
53-54 Goblin, Blue
55 Grimlock
56-60 Half-Elf
61-65 Half-Orc
66-68 Halfling, Deep
69-73 Halfling, Lightfoot
74-76 Halfling, Tallfellows
77-78 Hobgoblin
79-83 Human
84-86 Kobold
87-88 Lizardfolk
89-90 Maenad
91 Minotaur
92 Ogre
93 Satyr
94-95 Tiefling
96 Troglodyte
97-99 Xeph
00 Other

Doubtful.

Just to clarify (how would I not pop up in a thread about undeath?)

1. You can't resurrect a soul if it doesn't want to come back.

2. You can't use true resurrection on someone that's died a natural death (ie. a human from aging).

3.) You can't bring back someone who's sold their soul (or someone who has willfully relinquished their exclusive say on their soul).

4.) You can't cast Resurrection on an Undead vampire, and it destroy the vampire. It just doesn't work, and if you've got a creative DM of any type your likely in some trouble.

Remember, in FR / D&D souls are the exclusive control of the character, and thus by proxy their player. There's a good reason for this.

Regards,

Well, as far as Frey's point 2 is concerned, I believe it only applies to aging. Natural death is a bit unclear a concept, but there should be nothing keeping you from resurrecting someone who died of, say, tuberculosis or starvation. Aging, and the body failing due to that, is the only instance in which you can't (true) resurrect a body whose soul is capable and willing to return. But yeah, pretty much what he said, AFAIK.

True resurrection

Who is online