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TormakSaber
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 Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:54 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It take level 15 to be level 3, max out, in one job, which is presumably your character's defining career path.
Objectively speaking, 15 is not difficult to reach.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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This Means War
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 2:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
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Doing similar quests over and over and over for 25-75 EXP per succession at level 15 is tedious, in my opinion. In fact, it suddenly makes you -want- to go out and kill. Doesn't really make sense to me.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Uh, I do't think Disco ever intended the job system to 100% supplant fighitng monsters. IN that case, you don't really need to be level 3 in a job system to RP a blacksmith, either. 
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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corypx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:09 AM |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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This Means War wrote: Doing similar quests over and over and over for 25-75 EXP per succession at level 15 is tedious, in my opinion. In fact, it suddenly makes you -want- to go out and kill. Doesn't really make sense to me.
I dont think its ment as the new way to level, just something to do when you dont feel like hunting or just a way to spark RP.
I planted 100 ears of corn why cant I cast hellball yet?  _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
Last edited by corypx on Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:23 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:14 AM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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that would depend on the amount of xp. I'm sure it won't be equivalent to hunting, whatever they decide on.
I'm still not quite sure about some things... with people like butchers, cooks, and poultry farmers, what will happen with their acquired items? are they brought back to the job man, or are they just supposed to find a butcher to sell their chickens to? inflation! abuse! damn pultry union...
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Nekhy
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:23 AM |
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Selvec Darkon wrote: @Disco and other people:
I've actually seen a system already made that is extremely similar to this. If it can be tracked down, perhaps it can be modified and thus cut down on the amount of scripting and work needed.
Would be a bit of a shame to toss out the scripting work Disco's done in the past months over someone else's unknown and perhaps buggy script, no?
Last edited by Nekhy on Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:23 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Disco, as a generality, prefers to write his own things anyways, to my knowledge.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:51 AM |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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I'd like to suggest that the script checks for class/level/alignment/ability/skill/feat scores before granting the job.
Specialist jobs should have class and stat restrictions.
It would not make sense for my Orcish WPM with 8 WIS to be a Philosopher.
Similarly, for profession like barbers, someone with 8 DEX shouldn't be allowed to take the job.
Exorcist: Paladin 10 or Cleric 10
Physician/Healer: Cleric 10 or Druid 10 or 15 Heal
Archer: Ranger 10 or AA 5 or Zen Archery or Focus Any Bow
Thief: Dex 16, No Lawful
Outlaw: No Lawful
Performer: Bard 10, Perform 10
Merchant: Appraise 15
Barber: Dex 14
Weaponsmith: Craft Weapon 15
Armoursmith: Craft Armour 15
_________________ 
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The entire point was to make it so you could take the jobs with no restrictions. We bandied around using restrictions at first but decided against it, feeling it was too limiting.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Guxx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 3:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: I'd like to suggest that the script checks for class/level/alignment/ability/skill/feat scores before granting the job.
Specialist jobs should have class and stat restrictions.
It would not make sense for my Orcish WPM with 8 WIS to be a Philosopher.
Similarly, for profession like barbers, someone with 8 DEX shouldn't be allowed to take the job.
Exorcist: Paladin 10 or Cleric 10
Physician/Healer: Cleric 10 or Druid 10 or 15 Heal
Archer: Ranger 10 or AA 5 or Zen Archery or Focus Any Bow
Thief: Dex 16, No Lawful
Outlaw: No Lawful
Performer: Bard 10, Perform 10
Merchant: Appraise 15
Barber: Dex 14
Weaponsmith: Craft Weapon 15
Armoursmith: Craft Armour 15
Some of those requirements are awfully high if you're intending them simply for the first rank in the job.... I can see some of those as maybe being requirements for the second or even final rank of the jobs.
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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Xaviera
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Issues of scripting aside, I cant think of anything better to spend DCs on than something that gives a RP boost. My one objection to using DCs would be that you might end up with a PC who has 10 jobs at rank 3. Mind you, at 1 DC/job point, that would cost 150 DCs....
I dont even really like the idea of being able to have 10 rank-1 jobs, which is possible as the system is currently laid out, but I dont see a way around it unless you put a cap on the number of jobs that the job log widget 'holds'. However, I'd think this would be trivial to script (says I with no experience in such matters). If you capped it at 5 jobs in total, the standard max-level PC would have one job at rank-3 (18 pts) and 4 at rank-1 (4 x 3 = 12 pts).
Limiting it in this way one could have at most 5 jobs at rank-3, which would require 30 levels + 60 DCs. Would you rather see a PC with 2 uber-epic-phat-loot DC items or 5 relatively-useless-except-for-RP-skills? Even the best one could do for those 30 levels and 60 DCs would be an 80% chance of a +1 boost in each stat for 7 minutes - Dactylion's Power does about that, and doesnt cost 60 DCs.
I have DCs burning a hole in my pocket right now and apart from spending 20+ of them to get +2 Cha on my +5/5 DR +1 regen SR 20 bracers, or buying another widget to make perfumes, I cant think what to do with them (I refuse to spend them on levelling). I personally would pay 24 DCs to go Masseuse-3 Preacher-3 Performer-3.
_________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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You can save job points right?
I don't think one is qualified to be a smith without actually taking some points in the skill. Or barbarian healers with no skill at healing. Or paladin outlaws just because some players decide to take it for the lulz. I think its bad RP considering some of these are specialist jobs the require training.
Maybe somewhere along the lines of:
Weaponsmith Level 1: 5 craft weapon
Weaponsmith Level 2: 10 craft weapon
Weaponsmith Level 3: 15 craft weapon
_________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Xaviera
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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I understand the point about no restrictions on the jobs. Basically, since even rank-3 gives only an 80% chance of success, you can just say that the character with rank-3 in Blacksmithing knows enough about the craft to bang the dents out of some armour, but the player with rank-3 and Craft Armour 30 is a damn sight better at it. Besides, the way the system is designed already imposes a minimum level restriction; 9th for rank-2 and 18th for rank-3. That's high enough.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
Last edited by Xaviera on Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Nekhy
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:10 AM |
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Mind that this system is not tied with the D&D skills, but meant to be completely separate. The D&D skills by principle do not count for or against the jobs.
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Guxx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: You can save job points right?
I don't think one is qualified to be a smith without actually taking some points in the skill. Or barbarian healers with no skill at healing. Or paladin outlaws just because some players decide to take it for the lulz. I think its bad RP considering some of these are specialist jobs the require training.
Maybe somewhere along the lines of:
Weaponsmith Level 1: 5 craft weapon
Weaponsmith Level 2: 10 craft weapon
Weaponsmith Level 3: 15 craft weapon
Well I agree with that I don't agree strongly enough to vote towards changing what's already been worked on for a couple months now...
Besides, no matter what rules you try enforce you can't change bad rp.
If some one makes a paladin and wants them to act like an outlaw for the lulz it's not going to matter if they have the job or not... besides I don't think people like that are even going to bother with the job system.
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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corypx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: You can save job points right?
I don't think one is qualified to be a smith without actually taking some points in the skill. Or barbarian healers with no skill at healing. Or paladin outlaws just because some players decide to take it for the lulz. I think its bad RP considering some of these are specialist jobs the require training.
Maybe somewhere along the lines of:
Weaponsmith Level 1: 5 craft weapon
Weaponsmith Level 2: 10 craft weapon
Weaponsmith Level 3: 15 craft weapon
well its kind of hard to say for jobs like that, because maybe taking the job would teach you too craft. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Xaviera
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Nekhy wrote: Mind that this system is not tied with the D&D skills, but meant to be completely separate. The D&D skills by principle do not count for or against the jobs. I understand that. I'm saying that character X who goes around crowing about his l33t rank-3 smithing still has a 20% chance of the horse throwing the shoe. If I were looking for someone to craft armour, I'd go for the skill 30 over the rank-3 job. Now someone who was seriously into the RP would probably have both, and I might very well want to pick them just because they're likely to make RPing the crafting more fun. Guxx wrote: Besides, no matter what rules you try enforce you can't change bad rp.
If some one makes a paladin and wants them to act like an outlaw for the lulz it's not going to matter if they have the job or not... besides I don't think people like that are even going to bother with the job system.
Pretty much this. _________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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While I know it would mean work for the Big Chicken, I'm with Xavi in saying that there's nothing better to spend DC's on than RP abilities.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Wyjyn
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Can you define "Simple Items" further? An example or something? Beyond saying "I am a (insert job title)" what is the point of them once you get to level 30?
I like the idea in principle, but I think if you implement a system that doesn't offer much of use then it won't see much use.
In regards to mages, one example of jobs is that a diviner helps people find stuff..like lost jewelry, whatever they have lost.
_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Did you read? At all?
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:29 AM |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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Guxx wrote: If some one makes a paladin and wants them to act like an outlaw for the lulz it's not going to matter if they have the job or not... How about if outlaw paladins get Fall to go with it? Druids get rewarded with Fall for wearing metal plate armour because it breaks the oath RPly. I should be the same for Paladins who choose to turn unlawful. Quote: well its kind of hard to say for jobs like that, because maybe taking the job would teach you too craft.
Still, you need some kind of apprenticeship before you even know how to heat up a forge. A level 2 character with 5 craft could start his career as a smith, I don't think it's unreasonable.
I'm not suggesting restrictions on every job, maybe a few specialised jobs. Farmers and Cooks, for example, will still be open to everyone.
It'll probably be some time before the system is implemented and bugs to iron out, such as rebuilding issues of that hasn't al ready been addressed.
Let's see how it turns out.
_________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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A level 1 commoner with no craft ranks can be a smith, people. Remember that skill rankjs represent "Heroic ability".
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Guxx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Dramatic_Prince wrote: Guxx wrote: If some one makes a paladin and wants them to act like an outlaw for the lulz it's not going to matter if they have the job or not... How about if outlaw paladins get Fall to go with it? Druids get rewarded with Fall for wearing metal plate armour because it breaks the oath RPly. I should be the same for Paladins who choose to turn unlawful. I was under the impression that DMs already gave out the Fall when they catch the scent of an unlawful Paladin, I see no reason to implement any new restrictions that the rules already cover?
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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krytellan
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:34 AM |
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
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*facepalms*
People, this is a job system designed to enhance your RP enjoyment. It is not to make you bigger, faster, or stronger. Why must there always be more? What I see is a fantastic system being proposed by Disco and in the first page we already suggest wanting to buy MORE points with DCs. Come on guys. It's a great plan. Let's just leave it at that hmm? How many people do you know that have 15 careers just because they have good communication skills?
If you need to get more and more points to make yourself feel better, then you are engaging in this job system for the wrong reasons.
Disco, I LOVE it! I would recommend adding a therapist/counselor to the list.
_________________
Direct Connect spamming champion two years running.
"The pointer fingers are insured"
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Dramatic_Prince
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:35 AM |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2008
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TormakSaber wrote: A level 1 commoner with no craft ranks can be a smith, people. Remember that skill rankjs represent "Heroic ability". More like separate set of abilities then? That makes good sense now that you mention it. Guxx wrote: I was under the impression that DMs already gave out the Fall when they catch the scent of an unlawful Paladin, I see no reason to implement any new restrictions that the rules already cover?
No, it's not meant as a restriction. More of a reward for rping an unlawful choice. _________________
Prescia the Pristine Voice
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Crimmage
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:46 AM |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008
Location: Where you are
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lol let's just remember it's awesome u newbs, and 4get about ur stoopid restrictions and mechainix, peeplz
Anyway. Yeah. Live with it. >_>
Don't ask me for twenty dollars, because I've been giving you my lunch money every day, for the past year.
_________________
I am currently engrossed in sewer drainage.
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Xaviera
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 4:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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krytellan wrote: How many people do you know that have 15 careers just because they have good communication skills?
By the same logic, why should PCs get unique magic items that nobody else in the world has just because they have good communication skills? That's why I suggested a cap of 5 jobs, rather than 10 as currently set out.
An NPC smith (with no craft skill) would probably be rank-5 or higher, so these are only 'sidelines' for the PCs. And your average 30th level has spent so much time doing other things that he can only get one skill up to rank-3 at best, and another to rank-2. If he wants to go back to practicing smithing and alchemy and swine-herding once he's made his million, why shouldnt he be able to work on it? He still can't get up to the level of a master craftsman* because he's not spent an entire lifetime at it.
Of course, I leave it up to El Pollo Grande.
* assuming roughly 0 = novice/unskilled, 1 = amateur, 2 = apprentice, 3 = journeyman, 4 = craftsman, 5 = master craftsman_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Wyjyn
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 5:37 AM |
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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TormakSaber wrote: Did you read? At all?
About five times now, four before my post. Still not following the point I am afraid unless something useful is produced. Let me pose the question in another way: Why would my adventurer character want to produce simple items when he can go loot better, easily?
Witchhunter, Assassin, etc make more sense to me. What I want to know is what is in it for my level 30 character to go trade for Ore from a Dwarf who mined and smelted it, then Armour craft it? I see potential for selling it, but then I want to know just how high the quality of items will be.
Let's say none of that matters though, from a RP perspective what do I get? I can already ICly say those are my jobs, will I get a key to a meeting hall? Is the idea to encourage newer players to take aboard those jobs and RP with those ideas? If so, still think useful stuff from the crafting would help.
_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.
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Guxx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 6:16 AM |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Wyjyn wrote: TormakSaber wrote: Did you read? At all? About five times now, four before my post. Still not following the point I am afraid unless something useful is produced. Let me pose the question in another way: Why would my adventurer character want to produce simple items when he can go loot better, easily? Witchhunter, Assassin, etc make more sense to me. What I want to know is what is in it for my level 30 character to go trade for Ore from a Dwarf who mined and smelted it, then Armour craft it? I see potential for selling it, but then I want to know just how high the quality of items will be. Let's say none of that matters though, from a RP perspective what do I get? I can already ICly say those are my jobs, will I get a key to a meeting hall? Is the idea to encourage newer players to take aboard those jobs and RP with those ideas? If so, still think useful stuff from the crafting would help. All this is is something fun for those who want to use it for some rping depth to their character. It's not about making your character more powerful in anyway (IE: Making your own useful items).
If you look at it with out a powerbuilder's perspective it's a neat idea, if you look at it and try to figure out how it'll improve your character mechanically you're not going to like it.
If you're not interested, do as it was suggested and just not bother.
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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Wyjyn
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 6:31 AM |
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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I am just saying that if you are in character, as an adventurer, it doesn't make sense to make weak items when you can take strong items easily enough. That's not powerbuilding, thats obvious. I like the job idea in general, just trying to figure out what the benefit of being a jeweller would be... do I get to name and describe the jewelry? If it just produces a generic piece of jewelry, I personalyl wouldnt bother. Just saying what I would do and what I think most players would do once the novelty wore off.
_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.
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Guxx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 6:42 AM |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Because there's a possibility that some characters either A) Don't ICly believe in murdering countless creatures for the sake of finding items to sell, or B) They ICly enjoy the process of creating something for themselves.
I'm sure you could find plenty of examples in FR novels of adventurers having a job outside of their adventuring 'career'.
_________________
Dran 'Brick' Do'ani - The Half-Drow
"Hey, who you calling un-chrasimatic?"
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soundofastream
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 6:52 AM |
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Or you could make silver combs and other one use widgets with it (e.g., like the one in Djedet)...meaning, not useless, just short term uses instead.
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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Cori
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 6:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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For once, and very likely the only time ever, I agree with Wyjyn.
I'm not saying that I think the craft professions should create +5 armors. But I think it'd be more functional, more used, and just more interesting even on an rp basis, if you could, say, produce armor similar to the random-merchant armor, with small bonuses, that make it a good basis for mythalling later.
As much as I am all for RP stuff, there's gotta be a point. Where would the fun be, rply or otherwise, in being a smith, and crafting....plain armor. If we remember, NWN implemented that system - combine a plank, a chunk of metal, etc, and get...plain armor. Did anyone ever use it? When every shop everywhere has better? When better drops off a level 2 goblin?
My suggestion to disco was, and remains, that having the various job-levels of a crafting profession should allow a chance to make random armor, scaling in power just like his random merchants do, so the armor is useful for other professions, like being a skill-based crafter, and mythalling the stuff up.
This would also make being a gatherer more useful, because that'd be the only way to get the materials needed. As is, I'm not going to go buy ore from a miner, to then produce basic armor, to sell to a shop for a few gold. How many of you tailor pc's really get a lot of business? Or any? Uberuce with the dc-bought clothing shop? Shada I think had a clothing maker?
But don't get me wrong - I love this idea altogether. I'll enjoy my cleric being a healer by profession, and being able to go on healing quests. I look forward to the possibility of a "Dungeoneer" (Tomb Raider) who can "search/dig" in some ruins and find a statue, hopefully with a neat little description on it. Those jobs are great with this system. But crafting professions need to be useful, or they'll fade once the novelty of the new thing is over.
_________________ Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!
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Galenson
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 7:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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Cori wrote: For once, and very likely the only time ever, I agree with Wyjyn.
My suggestion to disco was, and remains, that having the various job-levels of a crafting profession should allow a chance to make random armor, scaling in power just like his random merchants do, so the armor is useful for other professions, like being a skill-based crafter, and mythalling the stuff up.
This would also make being a gatherer more useful, because that'd be the only way to get the materials needed. As is, I'm not going to go buy ore from a miner, to then produce basic armor, to sell to a shop for a few gold. How many of you tailor pc's really get a lot of business? Or any? Uberuce with the dc-bought clothing shop? Shada I think had a clothing maker
If you want to be able to craft stronger items, you should have an investment in the craft armour/weapon skills. That's what mythals are for. Disco said he's trying to minimalise increased abilities so the ability to be able to craft -decent- sets of armour/weapons just because you level a few times is kind of... unfair.
_________________
Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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corypx
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 7:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Galenson wrote: Cori wrote: For once, and very likely the only time ever, I agree with Wyjyn.
My suggestion to disco was, and remains, that having the various job-levels of a crafting profession should allow a chance to make random armor, scaling in power just like his random merchants do, so the armor is useful for other professions, like being a skill-based crafter, and mythalling the stuff up.
This would also make being a gatherer more useful, because that'd be the only way to get the materials needed. As is, I'm not going to go buy ore from a miner, to then produce basic armor, to sell to a shop for a few gold. How many of you tailor pc's really get a lot of business? Or any? Uberuce with the dc-bought clothing shop? Shada I think had a clothing maker If you want to be able to craft stronger items, you should have an investment in the craft armour/weapon skills. That's what mythals are for. Disco said he's trying to minimalise increased abilities so the ability to be able to craft -decent- sets of armour/weapons just because you level a few times is kind of... unfair. Wyjyn and Cori have good points we know Disco does not want to effect the balance but if he puts months of work into this system for people to play with it for two weeks thats a big slap to the face and over all a waste of his time. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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soundofastream
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 7:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Aertheca has an interesting crafting system. Where miners/gatherers usually are the Str. warriors for instance (dwarves, etc) and Jewellers usually are the spellcasters and so on...
http://www.aertheca.com/index.php?topic=715.0
You can actually make just as good stuff as anything in the shops...or mythal system but...
1. you have to find a recipe (a bit like BoT pages)
2. you have to gather the right materials (mithril and adamantine are very hard to mine for instance)
3. over time your skill levels get better and better (up to +50pts) the more you practice.
With each attempt, there's a slim chance of making an epic item (it gets better with more skill pts but still slim even at the maximum levels).
The materials are scattered all over the module (its HUGE world) and many of the more rare or exotic materials are guarded by epic bosses or are in hidden secret areas OR are linked to an epic quest.
So with such a job system in place, crafting could be done in this way (like a hybrid between mythalling, BoT and healing kit crafting I guess).
_________________
Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 7:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Sometimes i wonder.
I thought the whole purpose of this excersise was Disco exerting a seperation of Church and State, not giving folk option: Powergame.
The cool thing would be if the items not available through the craft menu were available (the gaudy helmet and the crystal shield for instance).
I'd also suggest adding in Job: Slaver which works like the Assassin type Job in so far as you go out and enslave folk. I mention this specifically in regards to the fact that Khem would have a large cross-section of slaves anyway.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Wyjyn
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 8:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Disco, feel free to ignore my other posts but read this
The seperation is mostly an artificial one. Here is my idea, feel free to edit it etc but tell me what you think of this:
Weaponcrafters can make generic blades with a degree of enchantment. So with max'd weaponcrafting you can make a +4 Blade, nothing else on it. Mage can make mythals, maybe up to Intermediate? So, if you want your portal wand recharged or Elemental Enchantment on a blade you go to mage. Anyway, so someone mines and smelts the ore as well as crafts the blade. They go to a mage, get the mage to add elemental and the mage charges for it. If they want Massive Critiacals they still need to find a Greater Mythal. Now, this item cannot be sold to normal NPC merchants but people with the "merchant" job can access NPC merchants which it can be sold to. Therefore, the merchant chargers a small "finder's fee" or whatever.
So the process goes:
Mine Ore
Smelt Ore
Craft Weapon
Create Mythal
Enchant Weapon with mythal (gold cost)
Find Merchant
Merchant sells to fence
Profit
Just an idea
_________________
Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 9:02 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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I had those ideas as well (Mithral would give weight decrease, etc), but I don't like the slippery road. With this people will demand that Alchemists make 'useful' items as well, and if the Alchemist has useful items, why shouldn't farmers produce useful items? Just pull those cow tits for a healing potion, boys! And why should military careers not give buffs? This would degrade the whole system in yet another numbercruncher's toy. Really, the last thing I want to see is these jobs popping up in the Builder thread.
Personalisation of items and using quality/material properties is part of the plan, though. You would be able to make 'real' adamantium weapons for use in Mythalling.
If you think this new system is a drag you can simply opt not use it. Fine, no issues with that. It doesn't give very good XP, it doesn't give very good money. It is no match for a bit of hunting at all, and not meant to either. If nobody uses it at all I can always take it out or beef it later.
Mind that Merchant is a job as well, and there will be NPC merchants around to take care of your goods for XP and gold. There will be a source-sink model in the system.
Anyway, a few answers to questions above:
- Dairy Farmer: you spawn/breed up to your rank cows (so, 1,2 or 3) by using your job log on the ground. You click on these cows after 5 mins to milk them, after which you have to wait 5 mins again. The milk you can use to make butter or cheese with. If you are (or call for) a butcher you can get beef as well. All these ingredients can be used by the cook to make meals with.
- job points, ranks, levels. Mind that you start with 3 job points at character generation, and one is added for every level you gain.
A level 1 rank costs 3 points. These three points are lost when you purchase the job. So, at level 2 you can buy 1 rank 1 job and have 2 job point left. You can buy another level 1 job at level 3, or save your points to increase your rank in the job you already have. At level 6 you have enough points to do so. If you again save all your points you can buy the 3rd rank at level 15. This will be the only level 3 job you can have because you spent 3+6+9=18 points on it, and you can only have 30 points ever. If you invest all your points in level 1 jobs you can have 30/3=10 jobs, and there are of course all kinds of combinations of rank/jobs possible as long as you stay within the 30 points.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
Last edited by Dev Disco on Mon, Feb 02 2009, 9:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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QPR
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 9:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Wyjyn wrote: I am just saying that if you are in character, as an adventurer, it doesn't make sense to make weak items when you can take strong items easily enough. That's not powerbuilding, thats obvious. I like the job idea in general, just trying to figure out what the benefit of being a jeweller would be... do I get to name and describe the jewelry? If it just produces a generic piece of jewelry, I personalyl wouldnt bother. Just saying what I would do and what I think most players would do once the novelty wore off.
Well, i would think that between all teh heroic and villanous deeds, the slaying of dragons, defender of cities, vanquisher of monsters and peic adventure, some characters just want to do something else from time to time. Maybe go fishing, learn to cook their own food or give the blacksmithing a try just because it gives them a feeling of peace or satisfaction. I mean, just look at Vladimir Putin, one of the most powerfull men in the world, defacto controller on nukes, former KGB agent, prime minister of the Russian Federation.. he has started painting. Perhaps he just got tired of being powerfull with all the responsibilites all the time, and wanted to express his more artistic sides?
The same could apply for PC's, they just want a break from high adventure, and allthough not really producing anything very usefull, they can still enjoy it.
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Athyonn Ursidae
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 9:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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Belladonna has just got to be the Fletcher, when she gets her hand back that is _________________ Siggy by Maryn
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ClockworkRed
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 10:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Nice city, good beer
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Honestly, I think people will quickly abandom the system because the bonus vs. time investment is crap. Just look at quests/areas which don't have a superb XP rate they are almost never visited.
Why don't you just add a few more crafting tables like the one in the Salandran temple for a mixture of area specific RP items or few powerfull magical items, which you can automatically name and write a desription for (if that is possible). The better the item, the more difficult it is to find the ingredients.
For example in Bendir, harvest a few beer ingredients around the city. Then go to the brewery and use them. You can give it a special name like: Humpie's Finest Lager.
Borgenstein could be some cool mithril armor, but you ould need to look for the metal near the drow city, which makes the mining dangerous.
_________________ Playing atm Eowariel (Elven archer) / Gwendolyn (Monk)
Inactive: Hector (Triadic knight)
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 10:06 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Well, if people only want great XP they should stick with hunting in the same areas and shut up about Amia being boring. This is not made for them, though.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Sakkran
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 10:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: The Hive Ward, Sigil
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Dev Disco wrote: Well, if people only want great XP they should stick with hunting in the same areas and shut up about Amia being boring. This is not made for them, though.
That's precisely how I feel. This isn't mean to be anything 'uber'. It's mean to flesh things out, and it's entirely optional. If you don't like it, you don't -have- to use it. I, for one, will be using the hell out of it, because I really like what I've read.
_________________
Morgan Blancrest: The Rage from The Cage
Lucas Baker: Humble Swordsman
Wesley Fletcher: Greasemonkey Extraordonaire
Also known as: EmoPinata
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DarkAngelGirl
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 10:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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I think this looks interesting, and is worth a shot. This could add an interesting dimension to RP on Amia, and spice things up a bit. I like this idea.
_________________
Active Chars:
Pylithien "Pie" Eriamyn: War Knight
Roxy: The Shiny One
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 10:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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To me, Mage and Necromancer could be removed, no need to duplicate actual character classes.
Otherwise, WOW! Great work, I'm looking forward to this. It will give my character(s) (all three of them) something to do !
Regards, _________________ 
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 10:38 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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I made some connection between classes and jobs on purpose. I can imagine a wizard/pm describing his role as 'necromancer', and it would be a bit silly to force him to take something that isn't even close.
Some classes are rather descriptive: You can imagine what an Assassin does for a living. At the other end of the spectrum are Shifter and RDD. They say literally nothing about your occupation. The rest of the classes is somewhere in between.
I think it's good to give the descriptive classes a corresponding job. An assassin IS a hired killer. That's what he does for a living, so it makes sense he takes the Hired Killer job. A wizard will have to be a bookwurm, that's how he gets his spells, so some job should be offered that allows you to RP in that way.
On the other hand I don't see any reason to make a job that reflects an RDD. RDD says "You got weird blood, and here: buncha stat improvements, ciao!". Blood Donor or Circus Freak would be about all I can think of. RDD can be a farmer, or a miner, or an outlaw, the class has little relevance for your occupation.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 11:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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To explain the IC purpose behind crafting normal items:
Do you think the majority of Amians can afford even +1 armor? All the NPC guards and common folk? Hardly. Someone needs to supply the Blood Moon Orcs with equipment, too. Sure, a few adventurers could afford wearing magical armor, but there's a much wider market for normal stuff.
And that's where the merchant comes in: instead of trying to sell mundane stuff to PCs, you can opt to let a merchant PC sell them to NPCs and role-play having a real job. The occasional mythalling of an epic armor is not a day job, but crafting normal chainshirts for the Cordorian scouts is.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 11:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Dev Disco wrote: I made some connection between classes and jobs on purpose. I can imagine a wizard/pm describing his role as 'necromancer', and it would be a bit silly to force him to take something that isn't even close.
Disco, I could easily see Frey being something other than Necromancer, as thats his life profession, it's what he excelled in so much it actually became his do-all, while the "job" skill was a skill that was never taken much further.
I.E.:
Herbalist, or Archeologist, or Alchemist, or gravedigger
My point was if someone was going to be a Necromancer, he / she would need to take Wiz / Sorc/ levels and RP as such. I don't see Necromancers and Mages as fall-outs who never progressed to level 1 wiz calling themselves as such, the real Wizards would kick their asses.
*shrugs*
Either way, I think it's awesome to be able to flesh out more of the character details.
*thumbs up*
Regards, _________________
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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Lesquille
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Posted: Mon, Feb 02 2009, 11:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
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Sakkran wrote:
That's precisely how I feel. This isn't mean to be anything 'uber'. It's mean to flesh things out, and it's entirely optional. If you don't like it, you don't -have- to use it. I, for one, will be using the hell out of it, because I really like what I've read.
I concur, kind sir. I like the idea behind this and don't want to see it turned into another tool in a powerbuilder's belt.
_________________
Born to a [wealth level] family, you spent your early years doing [early activity] in [town type]. Your father was [father status], while your mother was [mother status]. You left your homeland at the age of [chosen age], seeking [reason for leaving].
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