AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Role-Playing Assassins

Okay, I'll not bring up specific incidents, I'm asking some questions to see if I can find better ways of doing it. So far, I've done it really well, I've done it horribly wrong, I've broken PvP rules, I've stuck to them by the book...I've done just about every conceivable different method, I've assassinated level 30s and level 3's...I've stuck to the IC reasoning. Yet time and again, I have gotten to a point where I've almost given up playing the character, because 90% of the time, the person(s) who dies, whinges/complains, finds some reason to try and make the RP void...logs in other characters to slay mine, etc.

On the other note, I've had my own character in the course of PvP incidents, torn to shreds, sacrificed, burnt to a crisp, tortured, beheaded and so forth...all sorts of things that would make most players not want to rp an assassin.

Overall the problem is this:

Assassins aren't supposed to be fair. They're not supposed to give you a snowball's chance in hell of surviving. Surprise is their best weapon.

This, my friends, is grossly unfair. Its NOT an arena fight. No assassin is going to wait for you to put up your Greater Sanctuary for instance.

So I set myself a new code, just to 'be nice' ooc. epics get assassinated, non-epics I go for normal pvp (give ways out etc).

That said, deliberate PvP (lets face it, that's the rp of an assassin and their job/role in life) can to other player I think, feel like griefing. Its a one way outcome 90% of the time, that is, you lose. I can empathise and understand this point of view.

Even after spending 10 minutes typing text and roleplaying before PvP I get tell hell.

So what I'm think is, its very hard to get all the elements in place and get it right and even when you do and you pull of the PvP perfectly, without breaking any rules and all that, hitting the victims with your DC wands, giving OOC raises, not taking them back to your cave and spending the night doing torture rp (I don't ever try and hold the PCs up that long) or any other thing that would soften the blow to their ego, I still aint doing it right it seems...

So, here's my question, what else do I need to do whereby I can still not make it fair, keep elements of surprise, do that assassin RP AND at the same time, keep other players happy OOC? Bearing in mind that Assassin RP is never supposed to be fair at all...

This is a merry-go-round the DMs have been on, too, and though I am very loathe to say it, the failsafe is to acquire DM oversight.

I am with yoss, I would speak with the DMs. Though there is the issue of killing your target, him being up 5 minutes later, and trying to get revenge on you.

Give us time for the Job addition to come out to the public. The Hired Killer job is just what you want if you want to still RP the class. You get a job, the name and region the target is at.

For PC assassinations. Its always dependant on who you are dealing with. No one is ever going to just accept it like 99% of the time, no matter what method you use.

Well said!

Half the reason I stopped playing Xal as a Assassain ages back was that people used ooc stuff to get in the way. It has to be "fair".

Pfft. PvP isn't meant to be "Stand in an arena, face off after buffing, and fight". If it was, everyone would just be wizards or clerics.

My suggestion. Stuff them. Honestly, if someone is going to have an tit fit about it, tell them to go screw themselves, take screenie to back yourself up, and thats it. What you need, is a group of assasssasins to be part off. So if someone starts coming after you with occ vengeance in mind, then instead get a whole bunch of your buddies on there arse.

Nobody will try that ooc/meta gaming shite if there's a chance of being hit in the arse by twenty or so other PC's for doing it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Well said!

Half the reason I stopped playing Xal as a Assassain ages back was that people used ooc stuff to get in the way. It has to be "fair".

Pfft. PvP isn't meant to be "Stand in an arena, face off after buffing, and fight". If it was, everyone would just be wizards or clerics.

My suggestion. Stuff them. Honestly, if someone is going to have an tit fit about it, tell them to go screw themselves, take screenie to back yourself up, and thats it. What you need, is a group of assasssasins to be part off. So if someone starts coming after you with occ vengeance in mind, then instead get a whole bunch of your buddies on there arse.

Nobody will try that ooc/meta gaming poop if there's a chance of being hit in the arse by twenty or so other PC's for doing it.

The thrill of playing an assassin is finding a target, tailing them for ages and choosing the right time to hit. If they're lowbies (my character doesn't know levels, she just sees "enemy faith"), then appearing out of nowhere and typing text RP and putting up a puzzle to escape from (if they're smart, they'll find a way out of the hit). That is, pulling off a successful hunt is what brings you joy as a player of an assassin. Bear in mind that for hunting a level 30, it usually requires more than one session of observation/spying to understand their patterns of behaviour, friends, enemies,etc.

All that fun, however, seems to be at their expense 90% of the time and its why they throw a hissy fit nearly every time. Anyway, from here on in, no more assassination RP without first alerting a DM. Its just no fun spending a whole hour to several days tailing someone, only to find you get a wall of hatred text/debate/argument when you succeed. Takes all the thrill/fun aspect away...

Perhaps its just a lack of understanding that its not meant to be fair?

Interestingly enough, I get no complaints when they win...

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Well said!

Half the reason I stopped playing Xal as a Assassain ages back was that people used ooc stuff to get in the way. It has to be "fair".

Pfft. PvP isn't meant to be "Stand in an arena, face off after buffing, and fight". If it was, everyone would just be wizards or clerics.

My suggestion. Stuff them. Honestly, if someone is going to have an tit fit about it, tell them to go screw themselves, take screenie to back yourself up, and thats it. What you need, is a group of assasssasins to be part off. So if someone starts coming after you with occ vengeance in mind, then instead get a whole bunch of your buddies on there arse.

Nobody will try that ooc/meta gaming poop if there's a chance of being hit in the arse by twenty or so other PC's for doing it.

Unfortunately, I have to say that is the most terrible idea I've ever heard of. I was issued a 2-week ban for defending my friend against a Red dragon and defending the point that a red dragon flying around is simply enough reason to attack it.

so when you talk about open PVP like this, there has to be some kind of reason for your character wanting to attack something, i mean like, you can't do it for money, everyone on amia has millions of gold.

main point being, you gotta have some serious sh1t with the person you wanna kill in order to do it fairly.

soundofastream wrote:

Interestingly enough, I get no complaints when they win...

Yes, this is sort of an epidemic. Remember guys, PvP manners go both ways. If you want to win, you've got to be willing to lose as well.

One of my best PvP encounters was when one of my chars got assassinated a long while ago. It was just brilliant, and she (the char) didn't even get the slightest of IC warnings. The aftermath was a joy to roleplay as well, so not only did the assassin's player gain from this, I did too.

Hang in there, yawl.

90% of PvP I've seen has no 'serious reason' other than pure male testosterone getting in the way IC. No one complains because "its fair", typically, its done almost in an arena fashion...

But that's not assassin RP. Its not fair, never in anyway is it supposed to be, not ever. Most assassins fall into 3 categories of reason:

1. Assassinating enemy faction members
2. For Gold
3. Part of a Death Cult (god demands X lives per week/month, slain) such as Sharrans, Ghaunadurians, Cyricist, etc

A fourth reason is Serial Killer/Criminal rp, but that's not necessarily Assassin RP.

Quote:

So, here's my question, what else do I need to do whereby I can still not make it fair, keep elements of surprise, do that assassin RP AND at the same time, keep other players happy OOC? Bearing in mind that Assassin RP is never supposed to be fair at all...

its going to have to be 'fair' at all times unless you grab a DMs attention. i recommend contacting the player before your attack, which can be very lame. but hey, whats better is this, just tell them they will be attacked within the next i dunno, week. they know in advanced and they won't know when they will be attacked within that time period.

oh, and you never can tell when they just turn around and dev crit you dead and laugh in ur face and walk away cuz ur playing an assassin that probably doesn't have dev crit, but hey, the risk is yours. you'd also just hostile them every day until you lay down ur attack. i, for one, think this is a good idea.

This is very true in not just assassination RPs but in all PVPs as well.

Besides from having a DM supervise your hit, you could always send a tell (30 minutes - days earlier) to the other player to see if he/she's okay with it. Though asking for ooc permission before a PVP is not required here, I find that it's the best way to avoid the stream of "// I was OOC resting!"

It's a win-win style too, you get to find out which people are a treat to play with. I even have some characters with OOC aggression-pacts with other characters, where we have permission to kill each other without warning whatsoever.

Hang in there stream! Don't let the aholes get you down! Just do as Selvec suggested...cover your butt with screenies & let them cry, let them rage. Like you said earlier...it isn't about being fair. As for grabbing a DM...well that's a way to cover your butt as well, however the target is still going to cry even wth a DM present.

Giving your target a head's up warning is not recommended, even though it used to be standard procedure in the past before new rules were implemented. I have done that before out of courtesy to the players involved and had the attempt metagamed before it could even happen. The DMs in fact ruled that I was to blame for "forcing" OOC knowledge onto someone. Now I know better to keep it IC at all costs and let the DM's mediate any disputes that occur by informing them in advance and preferrably having one present to witness the RP.

i thought the rule was changed ages ago to say assassins give DMs a heads up on their target, and as such require no need to tell the person they have targeted. Doesn't that clear up any and all problems?

Yes, it's never fun to know that your character is an assassin's "target" unless the assassin is letting them know IC. Which, then, I would suggest you getting a DM to leave the clues so that I, the player, have no idea who the real assassin is. That's what would be the most fun. If I know OOCly who it is and what character is after my character, I wouldn't be able to help but second-guess everything I do around that character, worrying about metagaming.... no matter if I actually am or not.

On the other hand, I happen to think I was always very pleasant in any PVP occurrence, and my character almost always lost. So there are some of us out there who are okay with being the losers... though I do realize our kind is very rare. All you can do is pray... and have DMs watch you from the heavens, I suppose.

All these things, even when done legitimately and even with the rules worked out clearly, still fails the one big obstacle.

OOC hassles around the issue. I doubt there's been a case where I have felt good about an assassin hit or pvp as an assassin where I've won, because, the unfairness the other player feels about it means they take out their frustrations OOC on you.

Either you stuffed up slightly in following the rules (sometimes, its so hard trying to get all the elements right in this form of RP/PvP that you miss something you should have done first), in which case, they do all they can to void the RP or give you stick over it.

Or, on the other hand, you get the rules perfectly down pat but have left too many openings in your PvP assassination plan instead, in which case, the attempt is foiled in character.

Or, on rare occassions, you get every single detail right AND you succeed. This is where, I am supposed to feel happy and where I'd get a gold star as an assassin character and pat self on back. Yet that elation never comes, instead, one spends 10 to 20 mins defending your actions OOC to the opposite player. Its clearly an Amia specific thing, I've never had this problem on hard-core roleplay servers, just here. Hence why I thought its enough of an issue to try and find some solution in discussion forum.

personally, ive never had a post-pvp issue in my entire time here. Maybe its because im generally a nice person, taking the time to RP the aftermath of a PVP incident, instead of "dumps body in river, which then ends up in cordor" *ooc raise, port to cordor, end of story*

In fact, not once have i ever just left someone there after an OOC raise. Most of the time my character 'sticks around to check for anyone else' while the rest of his party goes ahead, and then he does an IC raise, bully the person who lost, then laugh to himself, or out loud, fully knowing that he is better at life than the person he just bested. Its actually gotten me an ooc thank you for coming back to do it, from a player who told me that they hate pvp with a passion.

of course, this might not work for an assasination, but hey someone can figure things out? Maybe after the kill, change outfit and 'stumble upon the body' or something of the sort, ICly help the target out. And if they want to give you shit for doing your job? then forget them, walk away, screen shot and send to DMs. assassination is perfectly legal, and if you get targeted you probably did something to deserve it.

Moridan_X wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Well said!

Half the reason I stopped playing Xal as a Assassain ages back was that people used ooc stuff to get in the way. It has to be "fair".

Pfft. PvP isn't meant to be "Stand in an arena, face off after buffing, and fight". If it was, everyone would just be wizards or clerics.

My suggestion. Stuff them. Honestly, if someone is going to have an tit fit about it, tell them to go screw themselves, take screenie to back yourself up, and thats it. What you need, is a group of assasssasins to be part off. So if someone starts coming after you with occ vengeance in mind, then instead get a whole bunch of your buddies on there arse.

Nobody will try that ooc/meta gaming poop if there's a chance of being hit in the arse by twenty or so other PC's for doing it.

Unfortunately, I have to say that is the most terrible idea I've ever heard of. I was issued a 2-week ban for defending my friend against a Red dragon and defending the point that a red dragon flying around is simply enough reason to attack it.

so when you talk about open PVP like this, there has to be some kind of reason for your character wanting to attack something, i mean like, you can't do it for money, everyone on amia has millions of gold.

main point being, you gotta have some serious sh1t with the person you wanna kill in order to do it fairly.

Why not? An Assassin kills for money. Others kill for religion? Why not money?

I'm not sure why you got banned, that sounds like a seperate instance that I can't really make a fair judgement on as I don't know the situation.

I've attacked people before in return for gold, my character is a merc, he does it frequently. Though more often then not he gets the hammer end, but still you see the point. I've never had complaints from anyone, as I always raise after the pking, because it's not my choice to say if there "dead" or not, thats there choice.

From someone who has been on the recieving end on more thanone occasion....

If you get assassinated dont let ig get you down guys and gals, roll with it have fun, if you cant, step back graba cuppa and come back.

For those who are the assassins I give this advice....

And real rp'er worth their salt will not base their IC actions on 'tells' that they are sent. So if you -are- on a job a little warning via the 'tell' is polite and should stop you from making ooc enemies down the road as well.

I have several ooc friends because they were kind enough to warn me in a 'tell' first. And remember these wise words...

'If I am going to get buggered then fine. But I like to be asked nicely first, it annoys me when I am not'

All that can really be said is follow the rules. Contact a DM about the hit, let them make contact with your target and let them know or whatever it is that DM's do when they discover a PC is the target of another PC's hit and if the player griefs you afterward, well.... be polite but tell them that it's all IC and that they shouldn't take it so personally. If they continue to harass you, screenie and send it to a DM.

If the people who end up the target of your hit can't take the RP, tough cookies.... as has been said numerous times here:

We can't all win all the time.

People should take the hit with a grain of salt. Yes, your character just got assassinated. But, it opens up a world of character development. Fear over another hit, revenge on the assassin, revenge on the person who put out the hit, and so on.

If perma-death was in place, I could understand being upset. But, if your character is able to pop back up a few minutes afterward, what's the point in getting mad? Have your character pretend like it never happened.

Character A: I heard about what happened to you the other day.
Target: What are you talking about?
Character A: That you got a hit carried out on you.
Target: That wasn't me.... I was at my grandma's house all week.

If you follow the rules for a hit and your target griefs you afterward... just screenie and send to a DM. Nobody deserves to get grief for following the rules and playing their character properly. What good is an assassin who doesn't kill people anyways?

I never seem to have OOC problems here while playing my assassin; however, I have had the occasion where someone 'recognizes’ that it was me who did the deed, even though I was behind them with my blade through their brain. If only we could buy some sort of magical short-term memory loss powder to enchant our weapons with >.> Actually, I should check if that is possible… *sneaks off*

Last edited by Kjetta on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 9:30 AM, edited 1 time in total.

The way you boast your kills (not specific, but genreal pvp success rate)on the forums makes me think that your attitude towards pvp inspire the mentality that the winning bit is important. It takes effort to seperate IC and OOC, and I admire your effort, but I think you shoot yourself in the foot by showing a fair bit of "pure male testerone" yourself.

I am not saying it's all you, Soundofastream, but from a pragmatic viewpiont it's always useful to look at what you can change about yourself first - because yourself is always more accessable to you in ways of reform.

Just pay a evil aligned priest to screw up a surgery. Perfect assassination, perfect alaby.

Those OOC whiners are sure annoying. *sagenods* So far the times when I got assassinated was only once. And hell, it was a perfect set up.

I didn't even wear my enchanted armor, because i was in the city. So I was lured somewhere, talking, and then got jumped at. I nearly won the battle, it was a very close call, but the assassin won and it was fun!
The resulting Rp and what not.

Also, set them hostile quite some time ago, preferably when they are in midst battle, then they won't see it and will overlook it and tadaa, you already got them hpostile and they can't meta it that easily because they didn't see it.

Also, don't let yourself get down, there are always people who think they are the heroes of the game and who won't accept defeat no matter what.

And on top of that, even Arena fights are not always fair *snicker*

My priest:"I will cast 2 spells."
Fighter: "I want these on me too."
My priest:" Very well." *casts Owls Wisdom on the fighter* "Are you ready?"
*fighter charges*
*Priest casts Destruction*
*Fighter drops dead*
My Priest: "I win." *turns around and walks away while everyone is staring in disbelief*

And not every fight should be in the arena, or is not even required.

Which reminds me of my low level drow encounter where the other party was insisting on fighting in the Arena in Cordor, don't know why really, since Drow can not even enter Cordor without DM supervision. It was fun though since we just said: Go ahead, we will come soon.

Kjetta wrote:

The way you boast your kills (not specific, but genreal pvp success rate)on the forums makes me think that your attitude towards pvp inspire the mentality that the winning bit is important. It takes effort to seperate IC and OOC, and I admire your effort, but I think you shoot yourself in the foot by showing a fair bit of "pure male testerone" yourself.

I am not saying it's all you, Soundofastream, but from a pragmatic viewpiont it's always useful to look at what you can change about yourself first - because yourself is always more accessable to you in ways of reform.

Actually, the winning bit isn't important at all, never has been, never will be. In fact, for most of my characters who have entered PvP, they die. Plain and simple, I'm not that great at PvP. I do find that conflict is the start of a great story. To me roleplay is all about story. Boasting about kills, I don't think so really, that'd be a misinterpretation of desire.

But that aside, I started this thread in finding better ways to do assassination RP. I'm trying to learn a better way because, basically, I'm almost sick to death of the class, with its PvP orientation and the fact that, quite frankly, people on the server seem to have an "unable to lose attitude" to PvP, when they lose nothing but about 5 minutes. The idea behind the assassin PrC is fantastic, its a great opportunity to fit into a campaign setting and add to a climate of conflict, which in turn generates story. In practice, on this server at least, I'm finding people don't want story, they want to win all the time.

If someone did a stat on numbers of wins to losses in PvP with my characters, I bet they'd find a higher lose rate than win. PvP, in my opinion at least, is a way of driving story forward, adding to the server, when done in light of a purpose. I used to shy away from PvP every opportunity I could, then a DM took me aside and told me I was being a carebear and explained how PvP can add to a campaign and that what I was doing, in avoiding confrontation, was in fact, harmful to the story. He stated that I didn't have to win, in fact, losing with grace is far more important, as long as it drives a story or plot along its wheels. I thank the day that got explained to me on that server 3 years ago. *Salutes Sir Element, where-ever he is*

On more hardcore RP servers, where you could lose several levels from dying (PvP or monsters, eg., City of Arabel), no one complains or takes it OOC. If I can figure out a better way, I'll stick with the character, if not, I'll dump it.

Best way to do it?

Well, the best way to do it is to consider one thing. Your Perspective of RP, Fun, Enjoyment and Pleasure is not the same as everyone elses.

Some people don't enjoy just being outright killed. Yes, it narrows your options, but being a selfish prat and saying "Hey! It's all RP and it's not meant to be fair; I'm an X Y Z and have reason A B C at my disposal to justify it!" in regard to -anything- (combat wise or otherwise) that's malign to another person is absolutely blatant selfishness and rather uncourteous. You're caring more about your own enjoyment than that of another - and this goes for any individual forcing their form of RP on another, whether it be hack/slash, melodrama, social-cuddle-giggle, campfire story, or conflict oriented.

IF someone does not enjoy a certain type of RP, then show some common decency and courtesy and just walk away

Respect your fellow player. If that means killing the 'surprise' by OOCly asking them if they're OK with it (days in advance if may be and never tell them when), then so be it, at least you know you're dealing with someone who's bound to enjoy it (probably moreso since you showed them the courtesy of asking)

The biggest, absolute biggest, stupid mistake I've seen from -many- assassins (One demonstrated even in posts in this thread), is the "Just Kill Them, who cares if they bitch" approach. Firstly, that makes them bitch, which will ruin your fun. Secondly, you're ruining -their- fun (As demonstrated by the fact that, hey, they're bitching).

Rule of the day - Don't be a selfish prat. Show consideration.

soundofastream wrote:

Kjetta wrote:

The way you boast your kills (not specific, but genreal pvp success rate)on the forums makes me think that your attitude towards pvp inspire the mentality that the winning bit is important. It takes effort to seperate IC and OOC, and I admire your effort, but I think you shoot yourself in the foot by showing a fair bit of "pure male testerone" yourself.

I am not saying it's all you, Soundofastream, but from a pragmatic viewpiont it's always useful to look at what you can change about yourself first - because yourself is always more accessable to you in ways of reform.

Actually, the winning bit isn't important at all, never has been, never will be. In fact, for most of my characters who have entered PvP, they die. Plain and simple, I'm not that great at PvP. I do find that conflict is the start of a great story. To me roleplay is all about story. Boasting about kills, I don't think so really, that'd be a misinterpretation of desire.

you previously wrote:

We've set up the ambush zone, so that the only escape route is the one we're going to take. Basically, if the people survive, its down to the fact they're waaaay stronger or luck

you previously wrote:

No one to date has survived said tactics, they usually run straight into the epic traps if trying to go ourway or into the rearguard if retreating and die.

You also actively write IC Journal posts about IC happenings in a way that portrays your characters as badass and with (IC of course) jabs or insults at other people's character, i.e:

the quick and the very dead wrote:

I challenged the female to an open fight, hand to hand...but she refused and hide like the coward she is...using very powerful spells like timestop to win the battle. The Drow have no honour it seems but I already knew that. That's why they'll always be a lesser lifeform. Only worthy of being prey or useful tools.

She's just doomed herself to perpetual war...I'll be ensuring I hunt down that shadow jumping sorceress (must of failed at being a cleric it seems?) in the future. She'll be dead when she least expects it.

I am not saying this is wrong, I think it's perfectly cool. But I wouldn't be surprised if this competative, if you can call it that, approach to RP results in a few disgruntled losers.

Just pick your targets with care, is my advice.

Kjetta wrote:

You also actively write IC Journal posts about IC happenings in a way that portrays your characters as badass and with (IC of course) jabs or insults at other people's character, i.e:

the quick and the very dead wrote:

I challenged the female to an open fight, hand to hand...but she refused and hide like the coward she is...using very powerful spells like timestop to win the battle. The Drow have no honour it seems but I already knew that. That's why they'll always be a lesser lifeform. Only worthy of being prey or useful tools.

She's just doomed herself to perpetual war...I'll be ensuring I hunt down that shadow jumping sorceress (must of failed at being a cleric it seems?) in the future. She'll be dead when she least expects it.

I am not saying this is wrong, I think it's perfectly cool. But I wouldn't be surprised if this competative, if you can call it that, approach to RP results in a few disgruntled losers.

Just pick your targets with care, is my advice.

You take two quotes that refer to an older guild that's no longer around and was in fact, on a different server even (a level 40 one where guild wars were very common and expected).

But yes, the character is stupidly selfish, vile, evil and insane and that comes across in her RP and journal. The best advice though out of that, is pick targets with care. Trouble is, unless you know the player very well, they're likely not going to like it...because they don't do as Cori says, roll with the punches.

With regards to "that sorceress", she was one of the main instruments in destroying the Silent Blades guild. In other words, our guild lost that war and we dismantled it and closed down the faction soon afterwards. We didn't whinge and complain but played along with the story...it was a way of creative conflict that whilst doomed to fail (Ultrinnan was at the time way too powerful), we created a story, ran with it. Killed many drow, got killed plenty of times in the process. We had some major area dispute when House Vandree decided, out of the blue to return...but other than that, it worked. There was a story, it played out, we lost.

I'm trying at the moment to think up a new story. The war with the Llothites is getting a bit stale I must admit, its time to move on, agreed and besides, the guild is dead and buried and the war sort of forgotten.

But anyway, isn't that the whole reason for Roleplaying an assassin? That they take away people's lives, cut them down in cold blood, are hated, despised, feared and above all else, likely loners with self-confidence and arrogance and a competitive spirit? I guess, the stereotypical anti-villain assassin in the literature is Artemis Entreri.

No one likes him.
He's extremely confident of his abilities
He desires to be the best and is overly competitive (killing off any rivals)
He cannot stand to lose against Drizzt...his whole life is around trying to best him, rather than be second best
He later on learns that his whole life is based on delusion
Then he loses the will to fight until he resolves that internal conflict

---
So there we have it, the archtype of the assassin, is by his very nature, competitive, a loner, hated by all and most of all, has likely a whole string of dead bodies throughout their years alive.

In an online roleplay environment, many people translate that characters attitude as the person who plays the character. That is, they mistake IC behaviour as the OOC whims of the player. In reality, I'm almost the opposite of that character.

I don't see lots of players asking if its okay OOC in tells to pvp me. The IC actions typically determine the situation and PvP occurs regularly enough in this manner. So why is assassination any different? More so, why are all these assassin characters not actually conducting assassinations regularly? I very rarely see or hear of it. Is it because they're sick of the OOC tell hell they get from doing it?
-------

Anyway, I think the solution presented itself a long while ago, tell a DM your plan to assassinate Joe X at the time when you've planned the hit and are all ready to go (and perhaps even a long time before if at all possible). Don't bother trying to engage in normal PvP, just stick to actual assassination PvP and tell the DM who the mark is.

Yes, you are right, my remarks are based on shallow first impressions; but nonetheless, I have somehow gotten the impression that you take a certain pride in your assassination antics on an OOC level.

I offer this impression for you do with as you please, you may very well oppose or dismiss it if you like.

Do you just assasinate someone you encounter and classify as hostile to your PC or do you assassinate people by being contracted by another PC?

Hey, assassin's come after Bella, though I have no idea why. She can even make dangerous secret Malarites like her enough not to kill her.

I dont moan if I get hit every once in a while, as long as people ask nicely first and have good rp behind it.

ClockworkRed wrote:

Do you just assasinate someone you encounter and classify as hostile to your PC or do you assassinate people by being contracted by another PC?

Elithiel is the third type of assassin, kills are as a sacrifice to her god, targets specifically enemy faiths only (Priests/Priestesses and their bodyguards if need be). Usually, its Llothites, Eternal Order, Tyrrans, etc...specificially, she hunts down priests/priestesses of other faiths.

So in other words, if someone is hostile to her, she'll usually walk away...if they're not clearly a priest/priestess or don't appear overly religious, she'll not waste her time on them.

Probably rules me out then :wink:

Athyonn Ursidae wrote:

Probably rules me out then :wink:

Yep, I doubt Bella would be seen as a target.

Cleric !!, we need a cleric here !!

Or at least one who aint to tight

I seriously wonder how anyone can play an Assassin on Amia. You get lots of bitching, the victims remember your face and every mole.. even if you were cloaked from head to toe.

Quote:

The biggest, absolute biggest, stupid mistake I've seen from -many- assassins (One demonstrated even in posts in this thread), is the "Just Kill Them, who cares if they bitch" approach. Firstly, that makes them bitch, which will ruin your fun. Secondly, you're ruining -their- fun (As demonstrated by the fact that, hey, they're bitching).

Someone makes a contract with you to kill someone, with lots of preceding RP, you give an OOC headsup to the player and he goes like "oh sorry, I don't like this, because my toon never dies". I can understand some players just kill them in the "who cares" approach, since most players bitch anyway if they are not in control of the situation.

Even by the fact of your faith you are bound to have enemies IC, are we to ignore that all just because some players want to play the sims online? I'll stick with Dark Messiah of M&M and my Oblivion sneak for assassinations, thank you.

Good grief no one has any manners anymore, I might just consider making one, just to prove it can be done....the gentlemen assassin of amia.

Hmm.... has a nice ring to it...... *wanders off in thought*

Last edited by Nairas on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 16:17 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Looking at the original post, it seems to stir up memories of recent happenings. I think the clear point about assasinations is to remember that killing random people is not assasination.

You should be hired by someone else, or have some sort of reason prior. Assasination is premeditated. It doesn't just happen when you first meet people.

If you let a DM know before you assasinate someone, and then let them supervise, there shouldn't be a problem.

Nairas wrote:

Looking at the original post, it seems to stir up memories of recent happenings. I think the clear point about assasinations is to remember that killing random people is not assasination.

You should be hired by someone else, or have some sort of reason prior. Assasination is premeditated. It doesn't just happen when you first meet people.

If you let a DM know before you assasinate someone, and then let them supervise, there shouldn't be a problem.

This is good in practice, but not very helpful if you live in one of the less well populated timezones, where it can -sometimes- be hard to find a dm, unless you can stay to the extreme times of the day.

Last edited by Nairas on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 16:16 PM, edited 3 times in total.

My main point there was that technically you need to be contracted to be able to pull on Assasination Rules rather than general PvP rules. You shouldn't just be able to claim that an encounter is an Assasination because you play the Assasin prestige class.

This is especially so when it is the first time you ever meet a character.

Rules say as follows:
10. Assassinations: Assassins must inform a DM that they are about to perform a hit. If a DM is unavailable, the assassin must inform the target instead.

Nairas wrote:

Looking at the original post, it seems to stir up memories of recent happenings. I think the clear point about assasinations is to remember that killing random people is not assasination.

You should be hired by someone else, or have some sort of reason prior. Assasination is premeditated. It doesn't just happen when you first meet people.

If you let a DM know before you assasinate someone, and then let them supervise, there shouldn't be a problem.

Agreed. Hence the original idea of tailing people and appearing and doing it the somewhat 'fair' way, by interacting in PvP normal mode, is something I feel doesn't work. I'd usually do this method to give the mark's a chance if they're pre-epics. I guess that goes against the whole assassination RP, in that, you're not supposed to actually give them any...

So after listening to everyone, I think I'll just do it the 'old fashioned way', get a DM to supervise, give no warning, strike hard and when they least expect it.

As for paid assassinations, that's one of three main assassin models (see above).

No. 3 is a Death Cultist, their job is to assassinate members of enemy faiths. In fact, this is the original meaning of the word Assassin (which comes from the Arabic islamic guild in earlier times). It is the one that I use for my own PC and hence why its nearly -always- a priest that gets to be a mark specifically.

Others get hired to kill...etc...

Last edited by Nairas on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 16:30 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Is it ok to use someone's faith as the sole purpose of killing them? In my understanding of what I read in the rules, this wasn't allowed.

Nairas wrote:

Is it ok to use someone's faith as the sole purpose of killing them? In my understanding of what I read in the rules, this wasn't allowed.

Then Banites shouldn't kill Tyrrans for being Tyrrans etc?

I think you misinterpret the rule that you can't kill them "just because you're evil".

A follower of Shar and Selune wont drink a cup of tea with each other.
The same goes for Ilmater and Loviatar.
.. continue ad nauseum.

The Hoarites were very hostile towards my Anhur follower as he revealed himself inside their temple. Perfectly legit.

Last edited by Zante on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 16:39 PM, edited 3 times in total.

Question, do you give a sensible way to avoid assassination as the pvp rules demand?

Personally, I loathe pvp, it is a time waster and kills rp. Were I assassinated, as long as all pvp rules were followed, I would not bitch (pointless), but it sure won't make me like you or want to interact with you in the future.

You yourself said you play a pvp focused character. A lot of people don't like pvp, so you are doomed to irk them no matter what you do, as you noticed yourself.

I suggest you do what Ron said and find people who actually enjoy this. If you don't, people will get angry, no matter how much you try.

Would a DM clarify this?

I'm not saying that you have to be friendly and get along and have tea together. I'm saying that you shouldn't engage in hostile actions purely because of their religion. Unless they have done something to you in particular, or are in the process of doing something that you would attack them for, then personally I don't see it as a sufficient reason for PvP.

On top of that, if you claim it is an assasination because of their religion, then it is a cheap way of getting around giving the person a suitable out. Especially if it is someone you're encountering for the first time.

Nairas wrote:

Would a DM clarify this?

I'm not saying that you have to be friendly and get along and have tea together. I'm saying that you shouldn't engage in hostile actions purely because of their religion. Unless they have done something to you in particular, or are in the process of doing something that you would attack them for, then personally I don't see it as a sufficient reason for PvP.

On top of that, if you claim it is an assasination because of their religion, then it is a cheap way of getting around giving the person a suitable out. Especially if it is someone you're encountering for the first time.

I agree with this person. "Assassinating" someone you encounter just because of their race or religion sounds to me more like murder than assassination. Murder needs to follow the normal PvP rules, regardless of what class you're playing.

Aside from the rules of Assassinations (DM must know about it, but not the mark IIRC), the same problems occur throughout Amia in almost every instance of PvP, and Sounds is pretty much right - it's all about the win to most people.

Some months ago my lvl 30 SD ran into some lvl 15 friends. One of their party members attacked me and I went into HiPS to avoid the hit, came out behind him and dropped him with a Dev Crit... he then started complaining about how cheap HiPS was and if I hadn't used HiPS he would have won and how lame I was and didn't play fair and I sucked because HiPS is lame and only lame lamers use HiPS in a fight because his character never loses a fight and I'm lame because I cheated and it's against the rules because I suck and his character rules and I would have died so hard if I hadn't used HiPS because his character is soooo very uber. Never mind the fact that he knew very well that I was twice his level (I made sure my friends told him) and had Dev Crit'd him. The point is, he lost and had to have a good long whinge about it. If I hadn't used HiPS he would have whinged about Dev Crit. If I hadn't Dev Crit'd him he would have whinged about how unfair it was for a lvl 30 to kill a lvl 15. Had he killed my character he would have been gloating and boasting in /party chat about how hard he pwnt my arse, like he had apparently done with the other people he had killed while in that party... two of whom were well below his level.

Some people will do their utmost to avoid conflict of any kind unless they are sure they can win a fight... and then complain, when they lose, about how all they want to do is "RP".

I've seen, and been involved in, variations of the "give me 10gp or fight me" where the victim chooses to fight and then complained when they died... worse, I've seen people just OOC say "fuck off" and walk in the opposite direction.

It doesn't matter if you follow the rules. It doesn't matter if they ignore all the rules. It doesn't matter if you blatantly give them an obvious "out". It doesn't matter who started it. It doesn't matter whether you are playing an Assassin or a Paladin - if you kill someone most of them will complain. You. Just. Can't. Win.

So your character got killed? So what? Some people really just need to shut up, grow up, hit respawn, and carry on.

Specifically for Assassins, I think you should tell someone that you're going to kill them before you start stalking them. Spy on them for a week or two, let the DMs know your intentions and then strike when the time is right. They can then say "no, I believe Faerun is all about hugs and puppies and I don't want to be killed" and you don't have to waste your time stalking them. If they agree, then when you kill them they have nothing to complain about because they knew it was coming.

WonWon wrote:

Best way to do it?

(...)

If that means killing the 'surprise' by OOCly asking them if they're OK with it (days in advance if may be and never tell them when), then so be it, at least you know you're dealing with someone who's bound to enjoy it (probably moreso since you showed them the courtesy of asking)

Please don't say you really meant that. Killing the surprise is the worst way to do it. Ever. I can work through PVP mishaps and I'm almost a master at stroking others' OOC egos ... but I would be very mad if someone sent me the Tell: "Hey, just to be courteous, I want to let you know that your character is marked by my assassin. Are you okay with me killing you at some undetermined point in time?"

Not only would I sit there thinking everything I did was metagaming, whether it be log off to do my homework or cast GS because my char felt weirded out by another char... if the assassin was someone I RPed with on a regular basis... I'd derive no enjoyment from any RP because the objectives of their character were made crystal clear and then what's the point of RP interaction? I know exactly why they're doing this, or doing that, and I'd just be going through the motions to come to the predetermined end of my char getting assassinated.

The only way I might ever be okay knowing in advance is if the assassin goes through means of telling me I'm marked ICly. By playing on this server you agree to the rules, some of which apply to assassinations. Read up on them. If you want to tell a player they're marked OOCly to be courteous, at the very least have a DM send the Tell. Otherwise, I'd advise against it...

Role-Playing Assassins - ways of doing it better perhaps?

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