I would hope any DMs pay special attention to this thread, because we need you right now.
Over the past week, I've noticed every single night, there are massively poorly carried out PvPs in the Amia Frontier and a few other hot spots. I won't put blame on any one person, since several are guilty, in my opinion, of upsetting people.
1. Greater Sanctuary - We need an up to date and clear ruling on this. This has caused no end of grief lately. Hostile (evil) party jumps in and out of GS like it's HIPS, and then get pissed off when it glitches and they get killed.
Firstly, tough cheese! It happens. Who're you going to complain to if you get glitched in the Abyss and get your butt handed to you by the NPCs?
Secondly, at least -some- consideration from the attacking party towards those in GS. Glitches do happen sometimes, and if GS is being used responsably, then there should be consideration for it without OOC hostilties.
This is why there needs to be clarification on this, clarification that includes what we do with glitches and the like. Not to mention the fact that sometimes hostile parties GS in and out so fast with attacks towards people's friends, that their allies don't have time to set them to hostile before they can respond realistically.
I've heard it suggested that GS should only be used in initial contact and conflict, or escape, not like HIPS. While I think that's sound, it would also be limiting, and I'm sure there'd be complaints about that sort of ruling. I would suggest in that idea's place, that if you glitch, consider your GSing ability worn out and you're now exposed - Run like hell or get your torso cut in half.
2. You're dead! Stay that way! - Several times in the recent few days I've killed someone, then OOCly raised them with the PvP tool. What happens? They rest because their spells were exhausted (or their abilities run out) and they're just waiting for the opportunity for someone to really "raise" them so they can cast and be off.
I'm sorry, when you're dead, you're dead! It can't be THAT relaxing. When you're dead, you lay there and rot for a bit. If you feel you're being left dead too long and abused, then state something OOC and ask to get it over with. (We all have to go to bed sometime, etc). If you're not happy with the RP, be dead and raised elsewhere, and don't come back to the area for a while.
People who aren't happy with the people they're RPing around, shouldn't RP with those people.
On a side note, if I'm playing against someone who is one of these players who rest abuses while they're dead, I'll do one of two things: I'll set you to hostile while you're trying to rest so you can't (So don't complain), or I'll just leave you dead and in your death screen. If you want realism, that's it - Be happy if you're OOCly raised.
3. Look at me! I want attention! - Even if it means completely obliterating the standard rules of alignment and class!
I can't count how many times I've seen someone .. *holds back from bad language*.. being a jerk.. just to get attention from others. For instance, a monk may be evil, but that doesn't mean they blatently violate the law or attack without reason, no matter the order. The very nature of monks is order. Every action is calculated, not spat out at the nearest suitable target so you can get a fill of PvP or generic hostility.
Not just that, but I've noticed a lot of PvP characters in the server recently. PvP is nice and all, but when it's being carried out constantly and being initiated with the most minor excuses, there's a problem. YOU may be having fun, but you're causing a headache for so many others. Not only that, but I've noticed that some people who are PvP happy have a hard time with losing and will violate standard rules so they can lash back at those that rightfully defeated them. (See Topic #2)
Remember, people, how you've established your characters. It's role play for a reason, to drastically alter your established character's personality to do something against your standard perameters is just ridiculous. If I were reading a novel and saw such horrid character deviation, I'd throw the book out.
Also, mind your stats! If you've tried to power your character a bit and have a negative wisdom or charisma, realize the effects that has on your character. For instance, my favourite character, Vera Talen, wants to protect the roads and solve things peacefully, but she's about as tackfull and diplomatic as a brick wall. She doesn't speak kindly, even in calm and nice situations - She speaks rather plainly and matter of fact. Part of this is her character, but another part is the consideration on my part that she has negative charisma. I know she's not a diplomat, neither is she going to win a beauty contest - She instead uses logic to win debates (High wisdom).
Similarly, I have a mage with negative wisdom, smart, but prone to bad decisions, sticking his nose where it doesn't belong, persisting where he shouldn't, etc.
We have to play the characters we've made. If you want to make a wise man who can fight people really well, don't make a fighter with STR pumped and WIS left in the dark. Stats are set as they are for a reason. You can't be the most strong, the most agile, the most intelligent, the most wise, the healtiest, and the most beautiful person all at once. Get real.
4. I am god! See me childishly get my own way! - Power is nice, but it's earned. And even then, used responsably. We aren't the NPCs who always attack, we're people who have characters with -some- personality to play and interact with. We're creating a story with each other, not an arena.
We must consider how our actions impact others. We can't always get what we want, it doesn't work that way. If you grab someone, you have to ATTEMPT to grab them. Any action that doesn't use the game engine (PvP and such) that is spoken through text isn't for certain. We can't just TELL someone what we did to them. We attempt to do something to that person, and give them to make an appropriate roll or counter.
If you tell someone what you did to them, or even attempt it without a roll, they have the exact same ability in that light to get out of your action without you being able to counter it.
I've had people, for instance, come up to me and touch me somehow, or push/shove/etc through text without so much as a roll. In those cases, I state that I backed up before they ever touched me. This is the most easy way of avoiding OOC conflict, but it's still annoying as heck.
Also, people have suddenly had other godly powers, like jumping up from death spontaniously (again because someone was kind enough to OOCly raise them). Or impose some effect on a person outside standard game and D&D rules. Here's my opinion on this sort of crap: If you're going to god me, I'm going to god you. If you can do something to me that's ridiculous, I'm going to be able to ridiculously avoid it, because I'm tired of that kind of RP. It's getting old, fast.
Make sure if you're going to do something outside standard rules with someone that they agree to it OOCly (preferrably through tells). Otherwise you're going to have to allow for the fact that they don't want to have a part in it and just let them on their way.
5. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction - And you're going to lose your freakin' head for it!!!
I'll make this final point simple: If you aid the enemy, you are now the enemy! Don't expect to be set to hostile before we react!
Example: You have three people. Person #1 kills Person #2. Person #3 hasn't attacked #1, but is intent on aiding #2 (his ally). #1 spent a hard long fight against #2, he sees #3 reading a raise dead scroll over #2's body. ALLOW FOR REFLEXES!!! Mr #3 guy, you're now involved! If you didn't think to set #1 to hostile before reviving his mortal enemy, don't complain when you get your head chopped clean off.
If I'm #1 who just killed #2, and I see #3 about to raise him, you'd better believe I'm going to kill you before you can do it. In this or any similar action where you've allied with someone who's hostile with a whole other bunch of people - You've now inherited their hostilities. If you didn't set to hostile beforehand, that's YOUR fault. Realism and reflexes means they have a chance to strike you down and can't wait to set you to hostile. You can wait a brief second before raising your buddy to set everyone to hostile. They CAN'T wait to set you to hostile before retaliation, and if you don't consider that first, you're out of luck, friend.
[/END RANT]
I hope this brings light to problems we've been having lately. The old dedicated players of Amia are surely getting a headache from all the nonsense being made by PvP happy, inconsiderate child-minded folks out there. I hope some sense can be made of it.
I don't mean to be harsh, but it's hit a critical point where I'm seeing this on a daily basis. People need to know how they effect others. I only hope this post goes somewhere towards helping that.
...If not, I at least feel a little better for putting this out there.
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
Alot of times people rest in lieu of a heal potion (expensive buggers) after ooc raise so a goblin spawn doesn't instantly re-kill them. I do it in spawn areas if I'm killed. A lot nicer than burning through scrolls since the PVP tool only works once ever 5 minutes. Were you in an area that spawns critters?
Just sayin...
I think you need an Amia break if it's getting to you this much. Also, this post is getting a little specific in places. I think you got annoyed at an incident and went kaboom.
Alot of your points are understood, but if you've been seeing this kinda stuff happen over and over like you said, It may have been better to PM a DM in the server or on the forum the first time you saw something you felt was an infraction. Posts like this tend to be flame bait.
La
_________________ We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
Last edited by Lally on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 6:34 AM, edited 2 times in total.
Jeez...I can just feel all the frustration that you've built up, and finally let loose.
All those are problems that a popular server, that gets new players all time, will have to face from time to time. Theres always that grace period where most the server is actually RPing and there arn't that many PvP hungery hippos out there. However, they do make an appearance.
I agree with you over 90% of that rant. GS is the one differing point. AI can not be blamed for attacking someone in GS because of a glitch. We, however, can be blamed for ignoring it after the fact. If a player was GS'd in PvP, the game glitched and they were killed, then find a way to right the situation. Whatever it may be that rights the situation is dependent upon too many variables to make a blanket call. But both parties should be satisfied with whatever the outcome is.
As for all the rest.... you're right. But, unfortunately those that are out there being all PvP-happy and breaking rules and whatnot are not the ones that will be reading your diatribe. They're the ones who don't care enough or don't know enough to know that this site exists and that it contains rules that they are expected to know and follow.
All that can be said is the typical.... screenie and send to a DM. I hate to run to the DM's about everything, but if it really is as big of a problem as you say.... then they are the only ones that can do something about it.
_________________
"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
The most we can do is smack these people, tell them "bad", and maybe ban them if it gets worse. I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but it's true. The miost we can do is punish them, and f they don't listen after awhile, ban them.
Players can do quite a bit more when it comes to the social dynamic, honestly.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Just curious but where do i check for the ruling on GS bugging up? Pretty good question really.
Sometimes it bugs and in the heat of the battle, i always thought thats bad luck and too bad for the GSer? Thats my personal stance on it of course but im curious whats the official stance.
If GS bugs, bad luck, too bad for the GSer. There are *specific* circumstances that cause it to bug and if you use the spell properly, it will almost never bug on you.
If it does bug, too bad, sory.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Players can't do anything about the people who walk in and randomly PK - that much is a definite certainty. There is no 'lead by example' for these players. If they're looking for a reason for PvP, they're going to find one, and I have seen a trend. Then again... That trend isn't going to get any better if the players aren't heard, regardless of where they post their thoughts.
You can say that, "We can't do anything about it other than smack their wrists," but have you asked the OP who it was so you could catch them and smack them while they're still red-handed? Insulting players and jumping to conclusions about the players' personality will just get them riled up more, to the point they may just go out of their heads and lash out at the DM riling them. Note, the DM who riles them is deserving of that lash in my eyes. They're leading by example and saying "If someone is ticked, tick them off s'more."
Also, I'm not questioning nor assuming you don't in this next question, I'm asking honestly:
How exactly do you find out if it's happening from the same person, if multiple DMs witness it? Do DMs discuss everything behind the scenes, including who got 'smacked' for what?
Finally, before you say, "The OP should have taken a screenshot if they saw someone causing problems," mayhaps the OP was in B (As apparently there's a screenshot problem that was recently brought up {or covered up, one of the two}), or perhaps they didn't think about it. How likely are you to think about the screenshot button if something went so ballistic and got you so riled you wanted to put your thoughts in a public forum?
However, players who do this are most commonly the types to be doing it more oftenly. The point? Players can't do everything, that's why DMs exist. My opinion of a fix? That much is simple... Watch the players who are most commonly griped about. If you catch them in the act, they can't weasel their way out.
The final option is to script it so that PvP is a forced mutual agreement, which frankly I believe would be the best remedy. "Both players must use PvP tool on eachother in order for them to be hostile."
Players can't do anything about the people who walk in and randomly PK - that much is a definite certainty. There is no 'lead by example' for these players. If they're looking for a reason for PvP, they're going to find one, and I have seen a trend. Then again... That trend isn't going to get any better if the players aren't heard, regardless of where they post their thoughts.
You can say that, "We can't do anything about it other than smack their wrists," but have you asked the OP who it was so you could catch them and smack them while they're still red-handed? Insulting players and jumping to conclusions about the players' personality will just get them riled up more, to the point they may just go out of their heads and lash out at the DM riling them. Note, the DM who riles them is deserving of that lash in my eyes. They're leading by example and saying "If someone is ticked, tick them off s'more."
Also, I'm not questioning nor assuming you don't in this next question, I'm asking honestly: How exactly do you find out if it's happening from the same person, if multiple DMs witness it? Do DMs discuss everything behind the scenes, including who got 'smacked' for what?
Finally, before you say, "The OP should have taken a screenshot if they saw someone causing problems," mayhaps the OP was in B (As apparently there's a screenshot problem that was recently brought up {or covered up, one of the two}), or perhaps they didn't think about it. How likely are you to think about the screenshot button if something went so ballistic and got you so riled you wanted to put your thoughts in a public forum?
However, players who do this are most commonly the types to be doing it more oftenly. The point? Players can't do everything, that's why DMs exist. My opinion of a fix? That much is simple... Watch the players who are most commonly griped about. If you catch them in the act, they can't weasel their way out.
The final option is to script it so that PvP is a forced mutual agreement, which frankly I believe would be the best remedy. "Both players must use PvP tool on eachother in order for them to be hostile."
You are adressing the "Random idiot" which is worthy of a ban. Of course DMs handle this. He is discussing viable players making mistakes. OFtentimes these can be handled with polite player to player discussion.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
@TC: In regard to this.
Quote:
Remember, people, how you've established your characters. It's role play for a reason, to drastically alter your established character's personality to do something against your standard perameters is just ridiculous. If I were reading a novel and saw such horrid character deviation, I'd throw the book out.
Also, mind your stats! If you've tried to power your character a bit and have a negative wisdom or charisma, realize the effects that has on your character. For instance, my favourite character, Vera Talen, wants to protect the roads and solve things peacefully, but she's about as tackfull and diplomatic as a brick wall. She doesn't speak kindly, even in calm and nice situations - She speaks rather plainly and matter of fact. Part of this is her character, but another part is the consideration on my part that she has negative charisma. I know she's not a diplomat, neither is she going to win a beauty contest - She instead uses logic to win debates (High wisdom). Similarly, I have a mage with negative wisdom, smart, but prone to bad decisions, sticking his nose where it doesn't belong, persisting where he shouldn't, etc. We have to play the characters we've made. If you want to make a wise man who can fight people really well, don't make a fighter with STR pumped and WIS left in the dark. Stats are set as they are for a reason. You can't be the most strong, the most agile, the most intelligent, the most wise, the healtiest, and the most beautiful person all at once. Get real.
It's not your right to tell people how to RP there characters. It breaks no rules, so it's not your right. Unless some how someone not being obscenely forgetful or such because of a low wisdom effects you physically, then it's not your right to tell them how to RP.
Espically since a low stat can be displayed in many different ways, also, a low stat doesn't mean someone doesn't gain life experience.
_________________ I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
As I said, I may have been a bit harsh. I'm letting out a bit of pent up anger from witnessing so much over the past few days.
To what Tormak said, he's right, GS doesn't glitch frequently - It's the sheer amount of use and GS spam that's getting them the bad luck of the draw and glitching out, then there's the person that mords them, kills them, and hostility in OOC all around.
As for playing characters - I'm not necessarily telling people how to play their characters, I'm just saying that stats should have an -impact- on how they play them (Preferrably). It doesn't make sense for someone with -1 cha, -1 int, and -1 wis to be an award winning public speaker and diplomat, does it? That's one way we prevent powergaming, I had thought.
Wow, how did I miss the fact that you still play here? I thought you'd gone a long time ago. I still remember that your PC reeked of dead leaves. A classic Amian image that has stuck in my memory banks these few years.
These are all issues we've faced as players and as DMs, and from the DM standpoint, we're up against an insurmountable force: changing behavior. The kinds of people who do the things you're talking about do them for a variety of reasons, from ignorance to youth to anger issues to just being an all around douchebag. If a DM is on and we don't have our hands tied up trying to keep the world living and breathing (running our stories for people), we often don't mind making an effort with the players in question.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, though, and suppose that you're actually referring to a specific player or player(s) who have recently been making PvP nuisances of themselves, but you're being very judicious in avoiding all specificity.
We DMs do discuss problematic players amongst ourselves, particularly when we are provided screenshots of incidents, so please do your best to get them. If we know who they are and can see their behavior, we can address it specifically in the hopes that we get through.
If we don't get through, rules will be broken eventually, and you know what happens then.
I log every single last session of my time in Amia, though filtering back through that is paaaaainful. Screenshots would be preferrable *nod* I'll have to make sure I know how to do that - It's been so long.
Though I did say I won't put blame on any one person, several are guilty. I'll try and point out (privately to the DMs) those which have been causing the most issue at some point.
I would recommend to everyone, that if you have an issue with someone, point it out to your favourite DM For the DM's sake, they may see a clear pattern develope and know who to look out for.
For my side, I'll make sure to call the DMs more if I see something about to develope. Once PvP has started, it's hard to tell who's in the right. It's the initial conflict that seems to be the problem, and the resulting fallout thereafter.
Quote:
Wow, how did I miss the fact that you still play here? I thought you'd gone a long time ago.
And Lol! I've had a couple long breaks, but I'm still around ^.^ My most recognized Oldie character would be Liam. I've had him out a couple times, but Vera Talen is my most frequently played and favoured character.
I can't stay away from Amia for too long That's why I care for it like this so much. I just want everyone to be as happy as possible ^.^
It's an online RPG. Differences like this are normal. One can always work to improve things, but it'll never be a complete success - you have to live with things like these.
Every "real world" P&P RPG group I've met so far plays the game quite differently, which goes so far as to putting into question if it even is the same game. And even inside every single group, there are major differences between playing styles and ideals.
If you throw a large number of individual players together, some complete newcomers to the scene, some oldtimers, accustomed to the unique rules and styles of their twenty year old hardcore gaming group, differences in playing style are guaranteed. Huge differences.
To me, for example, "raising somebody ooc" (or better even: "killing monsters ooc") is a complete and utter horror. I always imagine a PC doing something ooc in a P&P game, which would just be absurd ("Yes, a Paladin wouldn't do that ic, but I needed the XP for levelling, and I know maidens often drop nice clothes."). However, in online gaming, this kind of behaviour is accepted, sometimes even expected of you, so I life with that.
In ego shooters, it's commonplace to hunt down the guy who fragged you last. It's even somewhat reasonable, as you, being his last victim, might know best where the enemy sniper is hiding.
Of course, this should not be transferred to an online RPG, but we have to face reality here, I think: A lot of people came into gaming and online gaming via shooters, not all of them knew RPGs before that. MMORPG PvP is played pretty much the same way afaik, and I suppose there're even NWN servers where this is pretty much acceptable.
For a newcomer to RPGs or even just to Amia, behaviour of this kind is pretty much normal, I suppose. Suffer through it, tell them politely what they could improve in their rp gaming, and be happy that somebody found their way into this obscure hobby.
@ Nr. 5: I don't even get the point here. As I understand it, somebody interfered in your fight, you killed him, had it easy because he forgot to set you to hostile, and you walked away clean and victorious - so what's the problem? Did he cry you a river 'cause you pwnd him or what?
I hope this brings light to problems we've been having lately. The old dedicated players of Amia are surely getting a headache from all the nonsense being made by PvP happy, inconsiderate child-minded folks out there. I hope some sense can be made of it.
Lately? There's been malcontent griefing assclowns, exploiters and dummyspitters every day I've been here. Just as there's been funny, interesting and fairminded players too.
I'm sorry that you've had a statistical blip and stepped in more than your share of arse gravy recently, or that you've paid more attention to it than the people that make Amia fun, but I'm not convinced it's part of a trend. Not least because I've seen these 'things are getting worse' posts one every handful of months since I first joined.
In fact I tentatively suggest that things have gotten better. If you'd written this a year or so ago, they'd be mention of the foolios who used to pick fights then say "no PvP consent",
I actually thought this was necroposted. I had to double-check the date.
I hear of this pvp griefing and such time to time, and in my years here I've experienced two pvp situations that didn't fit within the rules.
One was due to a player being newer and not understanding the precise rules.
The other was when some guys hacked pc's with epic spells and flattened cordor, and that was rectified shortly by requiring gamespy authorization.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
It happens... I had this one guy that was *clearly* looking for some PvP and I was more than willing to oblige, but once I set hostile he was like "//ooc rest" and i was like, "you can't just say ooc rest once hostile is set" and after some silly responses off "//wait til I'm ready" I decided to just walk away. Once this person was done resting however, they continued down their RP path to initiate PvP, but at that time I simply stated to him, "I am now ignoring you" and went on my way.
I hindsight I wished I would have stayed around to "teach" this person how he should have done it right. But alas I am human and just didn't feel like dealing with it at the time. I generally play using two basic principles, PATIENCE and RESPECT. Those two things can help almost any situation be resolved.
*in Michael Winner voice* 'Calm down dear it's just a game'
Still its true if something ticks you off find a different group of players to be around for a bit. Who you play as can make a big difference on both the quality and quantity of the rp.
If you find it keeps happening again in one place go to another one and chill for a bit, there is always good rp out there on Amia some where's.
They -whine- constantly about it, making a peaceful solution next to impossible.
You come in and PK several players (You know who you are, ) Someone comes and gets me, I waltz out with my pseudo dragon, and commence an old fashioned bum kicking.
I'm -sick- of people whining about GS! I come in with the TS familiar, I order it to attack, I beat the !@#$ out of you.
If you pop in and out of hostile OR GS, or transition in GS, you're visible to the 'enemy' -anyway-. You run in, attack someone, then re-GS, and you're stunned when someone shoots a Mord or reality potion off, and then kills you?
Stop crying.
Stop it.
You abuse GS, you get abused.
You abuse HiPS. . Hey, great thunderclap, you're on the ground, and look at that. . I'm killing you. Same with GS.
Advice to people that stomp GSers, that are abusing it ?
Screen shots. Lots of screenshots.
It's not in the sidebar >.>
Except through a link in one of the menus.
You should put it under the spells or pvp menu (add to thread in DM-forums )
And i think it's more confusing then ever since the change.
An enforced mind-effect that is not mechanically there cannot work in an online game, in my opinion.
_________________ Click here for the navis & lukavi portraitpacks preview & download.
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
1. GS makes you impossible to target directly and poof from the hostile enemy's screen. People use that to whatever end they can, just like HIPS against an enemy with 5 spot. There are alot of ways to take it, and hopping in and out of it isn't an abuse, even though it's lame. If someone hits you without setting to hostile first, unless you initiated the combat and they're just responding without standing there like goofs and trying to get you to hostile.. then screeny it.
2. Off with ze heads. Sucks to be good, I know.. But that way they can't get instaraised and go "WHOOP!", throw back a healing potion and jump back into the fray.
Raise Dead: The subject must be in one piece. You cannot raise some who has been beheaded, for example. Missing pieces will be missing after the spell is cast, though any mortal wounds are sealed. Those that have been undead or died of old age can't be raised.
Resurrection: The condition of the subject does not matter; if you have one proper piece of a person, you can raise him as long as the piece was intact at the moment of death. The subject's body regenerates around the piece being resurrected. Any other pieces, such as the severed head of the victim that someone might be keeping as a trophy, crumble to dust at the moment of resurrection. You can raise those who have been undead and then destroyed, but you can't raise anyone who's died of old age.
3. This ticks me off personally too, however it's not against the rules I think, unless they grief by coming back over and over and over. Avoid such things by leaving the area or similar.
4. God RP is dumb as hell and if people do it to you, do it back and go "ten times more than you no matter what you say!!". Because that's about as adult as God RPing others.
5. Aiding a clear enemy in an encounter gets you labeled as an enemy. Same thing goes for people that whine "no hostile" when they suddenly start buffing and casting in a hostile situation. Casting spells, in a hostile situation, is the same as preparing for a fight and accepting. Whining about it is the same as whining that you can't twinky or mule, IMHO.
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
2: "Dead" people resting once OOC raised is against the rules IMHO. If I see you doing that more than once, I'll slap you.
3: Attention hogs are annoying. If you want to be a primadonna, go find someplace else to do it.
4: Please don't do this and god-game. We do have a DM-kill button, and some of us are fond of using it. Also, if you want to use PnP abilities, please ask permission first. It's just polite.
5. Self-explanitory. Don't stick your nose in unless you're wanting to get involved ICly. And don't gripe if Person #1 doesn't take kindly to it.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
Last edited by Gers on Tue, Feb 10 2009, 20:35 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Just read through it quickly. Seemed like a text that I can say to that I agree.
Albeit, in many situations that PvP seems too harsh and it's all the hassle, things are happening too quick and so on, I might just type: "*Grabs X's arm*", simply because I don't have the time to realise to add word attempt in there.
Yes, I got frustrated about a month ago when I had to refer two or three people IG to the Sidebar but the Sidebar was DEAD WRONG every time and then I screamed on the DM forum and demanded that it be updated or I would hold everyone hostage and start killing people every hour on the hour until it was adjusted.
TormakSaber wrote:
It was never updated, and there's a lot less people living in Florida now.
As many times as I have had issued of trying to figure GS out, I think it would be a nice spell to have stuck on the sidebar, or a link from the already placed "Spells" to it's clarification thread.
And it's still the best spell I've ever seen for as much as I dislike it. Very hard to use responsibly, and harder to always remember it's exact mechanics of Amia Rule vs Bioware config.
_________________ Weston Carter ~Salandran~ : Retired Carters Leave Amia
I can relate to the OP's point of view and wish that there was a way to condense the various lessons that have been learned (hard way or easy way) into a bullet. Then we could just shoot everyone new with wisdom bullets.
And hopefully try not to do it with an expression of manic glee.
These various stages of behaviour do happen before a player realises that what they thought was cool and trendy actually does nothing to endear them to other players. I know a few players who have learned from their mistakes, or at least admitted to having made them.
However while they're on the learning curve, there are other players who can be becoming embittered and reluctant to play with new people (and newness is a relative term here) because after they've facepalmed to five sons of Cyric (just an example, no offence intended) their tolerance for wacky character concepts is slightly diminished.
Obviously once a player learns that they don't have to be an attention-grabber or a jerk or a god-gamer to get people to play with them, then things are better for everyone. How or if it's even possible for you to help them reach this epiphany, is never a certain thing.
I can relate to the OP's point of view and wish that there was a way to condense the various lessons that have been learned (hard way or easy way) into a bullet. Then we could just shoot everyone new with wisdom bullets.
And hopefully try not to do it with an expression of manic glee.
These various stages of behaviour do happen before a player realises that what they thought was cool and trendy actually does nothing to endear them to other players. I know a few players who have learned from their mistakes, or at least admitted to having made them.
However while they're on the learning curve, there are other players who can be becoming embittered and reluctant to play with new people (and newness is a relative term here) because after they've facepalmed to five sons of Cyric (just an example, no offence intended) their tolerance for wacky character concepts is slightly diminished.
Obviously once a player learns that they don't have to be an attention-grabber or a jerk or a god-gamer to get people to play with them, then things are better for everyone. How or if it's even possible for you to help them reach this epiphany, is never a certain thing.
Wise words.
_________________ "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence" ~ Napoleon Bonaparte. - Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
Just would like to point out that even thought the said behavior is annoying and frustrating, sometimes you cant do anything about it.
Sometimes even the opposite player could be younger and not fully understands how to do things, he/she is just trying. I, for one, had no clue when I first played amia, I did everything wrong: By lore, I was elf who summoned undead and dated thieflings Sometimes I did get very personal if someone killed my char, those bitches should have died when I attacked! Once I even were called a "random Rp:ier" For the fact that I played pally who partied with undead ((Was about 3 years ago I think..))
So, give them time and try to help them etc.. and if you know this player has long been on amia and still does it, well I doupt he/she will learn just by telling him/her, screenie and tell to DM's.
Just would like to point out that even thought the said behavior is annoying and frustrating, sometimes you cant do anything about it.
Sometimes even the opposite player could be younger and not fully understands how to do things, he/she is just trying. I, for one, had no clue when I first played amia, I did everything wrong: By lore, I was elf who summoned undead and dated thieflings Sometimes I did get very personal if someone killed my char, those bitches should have died when I attacked! Once I even were called a "random Rp:ier" For the fact that I played pally who partied with undead ((Was about 3 years ago I think..))
So, give them time and try to help them etc.. and if you know this player has long been on amia and still does it, well I doupt he/she will learn just by telling him/her, screenie and tell to DM's.
You learned, and changed.
Unfortunately, there seem to be some players who have only learned that they can get away with more than they expected to when they first came here.
_________________ "Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence" ~ Napoleon Bonaparte. - Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
I'd disagree with the theory that:
More DMs = Known Consequences to Players.
I'd agree that DMs who played specific roles in the environment for fixed amounts of time (A DM this week might run mediation and/or law-hammer, and next week run quests and fun aspects) would cut down on problems by about 1000% in comparison to as-is.
But then comes the last part:
I'd be considered a person giving unneccessary input, most likely.
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
Kendera wrote:
The GS whiners have the right to whine, but I have the right to kill them and not listen.
People who use GS as HiPS can't pvp with any amount of skill.
Thats a rcognised fact and bravado about killing them, as with Bravado about killing anyone who presses the win button, is the same as sticking a shotgun full of buckshot down a mouse hole, pulling the trigger and calling yourself the great white hunter because you turned a family of mice into a family of red weeping sponges.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
I have one general opinion on this mess. I have said it before on these forums, and lo and behold, I shall say it again.
No matter who you are, no matter your job, no matter your character, just quit whining, eh? GS'ers? Death isn't the worst thing. I've had hilarious rp after I died. Just roll with it and don't get all irate cause your character doesn't seem to be quite the epic BA you thought it was.
Other side? Death isn't the worst thing. I've had hilarious rp after I died. Just roll with it and don't get all irate cause your character doesn't seem to be quite the epic BA you thought it was.
Pvp happens, bad rp happens, lotsa irritating things...happen. Know what makes them go smoothly? Stay pleasant, talk it out, and move on with your lives. I have -never- had an ooc problem with someone on my own, no matter how horrible the rp. I just let them know whats up and get their opinion on whats happening.
As far as the masses of pvp killings? Occasionally, characters come along that simply do that. And if you talk to them, it might turn out they are only following the rp of their character. This conflict creates things for us to do! It makes things interesting, even if you don't like being killed once in a wee bit.
Come on guys and gals. Just calm down, grab a dew and some ice cream, and watch them burn and hang your mangled corpse! IE...just talk to each other, and help one another play the game right.
Perhaps if the DM's weren't so overloaded with our bulls**t, maybe we'd have more epic events? *om noms the food for thought*
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
davis114 wrote:
I have one general opinion on this mess. I have said it before on these forums, and lo and behold, I shall say it again.
No matter who you are, no matter your job, no matter your character, just quit whining, eh? GS'ers? Death isn't the worst thing. I've had hilarious rp after I died. Just roll with it and don't get all irate cause your character doesn't seem to be quite the epic BA you thought it was.
Other side? Death isn't the worst thing. I've had hilarious rp after I died. Just roll with it and don't get all irate cause your character doesn't seem to be quite the epic BA you thought it was.
Pvp happens, bad rp happens, lotsa irritating things...happen. Know what makes them go smoothly? Stay pleasant, talk it out, and move on with your lives. I have -never- had an ooc problem with someone on my own, no matter how horrible the rp. I just let them know whats up and get their opinion on whats happening.
As far as the masses of pvp killings? Occasionally, characters come along that simply do that. And if you talk to them, it might turn out they are only following the rp of their character. This conflict creates things for us to do! It makes things interesting, even if you don't like being killed once in a wee bit.
Come on guys and gals. Just calm down, grab a dew and some ice cream, and watch them burn and hang your mangled corpse! IE...just talk to each other, and help one another play the game right.
Perhaps if the DM's weren't so overloaded with our bulls**t, maybe we'd have more epic events? *om noms the food for thought*
I love you.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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That's why I care for it like this so much. I just want everyone to be as happy as possible ^.^
)
