I can honestly say that if one of my PCs was assassinated, I'd be downright flattered. To think someone else cared enough about my character to pay to have them offed would put a smile on my face.

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Direct Connect spamming champion two years running.
"The pointer fingers are insured"

I agree! The fact that no one wants Torin dead ona regular basis tells me I need to piss off more people as him...

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

There is a difference between not pissed off enough and too high risk a target actually.

I've not been an assassination target that often, but what Estara says rings true. Giving your target a OOC warning means he'll either try to not metagame under any circumstances and as a result act differently than he normally would, or he'll be on guard all the time, buff himself or hang around safe locations.

I don't think you would have to tell anyone, because the roleplay that lead up to the character be green-lit by people and you getting the job to assassinate him is IMO roleplay enough to warrant PvP. 'Course it's more elegant if you tell a DM beforehand. This applies mostly to the traditional kind of assassination, which consists of an employer who has a history with the target, and an assassin.

But really.. assassinating folks because they're good, evil, followers of certain gods, members of the clergy or Santa Claus is not enough without proper reason and RP. And if there is no RP creating this target, with an employer for example, then you have to get into RP with the target yourself prior to you assassinating him. Otherwise it's just a flimsy excuse with a much too broad population that will end up being targets.

I just have to give a thumbs up to this one. Here here.

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Siggy by Maryn

I have to agree with that as well.

I've not had a pc get assassinated, but if it ever happened, I'd be thrilled. As long as it was for a realistically good reason, and not just some lamearse excuse for pvp.

I would not want advance notification. I *may* want justification after the fact however, to ensure that there was indeed valid rp leading up to this.

For me, the assassinated one, unless the assassin was an idiot, and showed up and said "Hi, my name's John. I'll be your killer for today. Do you prefer head wounds, or heart?", then I'd remember being assassinated, yes, but there's no reason I'd know who did it, unless I actually DID know.

The land is filled with adventurers. It's not hard generally, to find a lot of people dressed fairly similarly. And I personally as a real life person, don't tend to be able to go by voice, unless I know you well. So why should my character? All I'd be able to do is say "I was killed by some dude in black" (because everyone knows all you silly evil folks wear black). And the RP fun for me would be trying to figure out who, and why, after the fact.

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Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!

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Yaztyrr

Yet, despite the posters in this thread going "It would be fun", the biggest complaint is an apparent 90% bitching response by the victims.



Somehow I doubt said victims would be bitching if they were having fun.


Best part about OOC warning? If someone doesn't agree with it and they tell you to screw off, here's a great question for you; Do you honestly want to RP with them after they demonstrate said kind of attitude?. Would it have been worth your time to go out and track them down, spend alot of your time waiting for that right moment, RPing out the assassination and subsequently killing them; just so they could bitch you out, whine, even get you talked to by the DMs if the situation looked at the slightest bit iffy?

If you honestly enjoy pissing people off that much, then I suggest a different server.

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Mostly Retired

Hey, don't quote me on saying it would be fun. I just said I'm pretty calm and I've lost a lot of PVP/assassin-y kind of shit in my history on Amia without being a bitch about it.

In plenty of those incidents it wasn't fun to be the victim, mostly because the assassin or murderer of my char, as Kjetta somewhat has pointed out, lots of the time is less interested in making the interaction a fun interaction, and is more interested about his own ego and agenda...

My only vehement point in this topic is that letting a target know beforehand is detrimental to those who derive their fun from the spontaneity of RP. (Which is me.) So if you're looking to be a People-Pleaser, Yoss's post summed it up pretty well -- get a DM.

The best was when my drow was told to go to Ultrinnan and find the torturers of one if the shriners. He found a Llothite priestess hunting, joined her group by pretending to be a Llothite (Even used a different non-roguish fighting style and a different weapon than normal.) He quickly became her loyal follower... and she brought him into the same room as the assailant. Well she wasn't the most sane individual and promptly decided to show off her new found gaurd's absolute obedience by ordering him to kill her.

The target of his assassination came to her defense, and in five minutes, my drow ninja was on his way out from the room, leaving no living witnesses to his act.

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"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.

Yeah, I think you're right to some extent. I'm not into pissing people off at all. There's quite a few people here above who would see being the target of a surprise hit a form of flattery, there's probably way more people out there who prefer pridegaming and can't stand losing.

I think given the numbers are higher in the latter category, I'll have to opt for your idea, even though, like Estara, I just think the whole idea sucks big time and ruins it for the other player (ref. metagaming/not metagaming, sitting in cordor square the whole week, etc). You're basically saying "other than a handful of players, assassination needs to be faked, since the key thing that's normal about it is surprise".

I'd say the minute I tell them in a tell, on goes the Freedom belts, etc...(for those who don't wear them 24/7), making the death attack useless...anyway, I hate the whole idea but if that's what it takes to stop the whinging, I guess I'm stuck with it...

In PnP, you can always spike their drink with a save vs. death type poison. Here, you can do that and an ability will be lowered for 3 rounds (DC26)....

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

You know what, when assassins come after me, they ask if they can, I say sure if I'm not in something like a dm event or whatnot. I then go about business as usual. I don't know when he'll strike. I don't do anything usual like play in Premonotion all day. Then suddenly STRIKE! Fight for survival! TIMESTOP! O.o Or death.

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"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.

we should all start sending random tells to players saying "fyi, your character is an assassination target." Hilarity ensues.

Also, i wonder if we would see an increase in buffed to the gills toons walking around?

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"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling

Some people do walk around 24/7 buffed to the hills.

I hate spell visuals on my characters when they are walking around.

Either way, you wouldn't be able to tell who's metagaming thier assassin and who's not thanks to the paranoid whackos that do.

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"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.

Oh that's an easy one to spot (well freedom belts aren't unless you're a DM). For those who don't walk around buffed to the hilt (I take screenies when in stake out mode), after I send them a tell saying you're a target. If behaviour changes, then you get into the "burden of proof" game.

Its already hard enough work doing assassin RP as is, I feel that too many things are being asked of us, to the point that the class is absolutely worthless on Amia and really not worth playing here. Freedom belts are everywhere and now we're being asked to take away their main advantage.

Surprise.

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

i know people do, the part about buffing was just a joke. the real humor would be creating all sorts of paranoia among the players.

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"Earnest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

[Kegs] Angry Dwarf
[Akly] Angry Halfling

I have two characters who always walk buffed up because they are wary of assassins, and yet sometimes I forget to buff 'em up. One of them I sometimes don't buff up in hopes someone will suddenly show up and suddenly assassinate.

There is one who is overly confident, and sometimes I am so deep beneath his skin that I also forget casting spells, but sometimes I also remember he's one chaotic evil git and would rather use anything he can to his advantage, and then I buff him up.

I was target to an assassination RP once in which the player told me days before. When I was in the middle of good RP I would buff up, afraid that if the assassin would show up my RP session would be interrupted. But the days passed and nothing happened, and I was almost disappointed. Then, I nudged the player again asking if he had changed his mind. He said no, but didn't do anything yet because my character was always around someone.

It was an IC behaviour of my character, but I definetely wanted to give the other player a good time and then tore away from my RP group one day, to give said player a chance.

It was awesome RP. ^^

Anyway, I don't mind being warned beforehand. I also have a bad memory so, if you take too long to attack, I will probably forget all about it and when the RP does happen, I won't whine because then there will be the usual "Oh, right! You warned me. Stupid memory." If I bitched for some reason, I will apologize if I remember I was warned. If I did not bitched, you can be sure that I'll happily play along.

However, much as Cori, I tend to ask before or after the assassination for the reason. Not only because I was curious, but also because I would like to know if it was a valid one and not a lame excuse.

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BlackDahlya

Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath

Yeah, I recon if you have a proper excuse then it's cool. I personally like to know why my characters are being assasinated, to be sure there actually is a reason. If there is, no problem. If there's not, then I'd rather it didn't happen.

Ly'th has done some assasinations in the past, and each one went rather well. Earlier before the new PVP rules, he was given a target by someone, then I sent the target a Tell to let them know they were going to be assasinated and to be sure they were ok with it.

Since then, asking a DM to watch or send the tell for you has never failed me. That's perfect. The DM can hear out your reason why you need to assasinate someone, and then tell you whether it is a justified reason or not before-hand. They also have the power to check for metagaming, or explain with authority that what was done was within the rules and ok.

If there are any disputes, they are there to solve it from the beginning.
Asking a DM to supervise is the #1 way of assasination.

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Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.

Just hire an evil priest to do a bodgy job at a surgery.

Legal, easy, mess free.

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Plays:

"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."

Haha! That's a great idea! "Oops...was that the Harm spell? I meant to say the words for the Heal one...oh well.."

Anyways, I'd just like to thank all those who've contributed positively to this thread. There's been a couple of great ideas out of this and from it, I think I'm ready to start the next chapter in my characters' story.

I would say that when we had the Silent Blades going, there was clear direction and a focus and a story and a group of members with a common purpose. Assassination was part of a larger overall goal. If people asked why they were killed, we could point to the fact that it was a guild war (at the time, House Vandree, VDVM, House Tinnerai were our targets with Black Flag/EO the main focus enemies of our allies which we helped with).

It seems when done as a factional purpose, it has more legitimacy than a lone wolf war against say, enemy faiths...and so forth...or at least, that's the impression I'm getting from said victims. This gives me some great ideas to re-invent a new guild, with a new focus, etc...

Bearing in mind the old guild did spend 90% of its time gathering information/plotting/etc, 10% warring...

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

Point is - Assasinations? Use a DM.

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Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.

Unless you want to assassinate me. Though i cant see why you would. Not every event should have to be baby sitted by an already over wroked DM. Especially if the respective players are willing to be decent about it.

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Siggy by Maryn

After finally having read through this thread those lines almost made me shed a small tear, seriously. I absolutely adore the assassin class for its nearly unlimited possibilties it holds. Playing an assassin is so much more than just killing other pcs, it is the whole "life of a hitman" unfolding in the hands of the player.

I must also admit I don't belive that a traditional assassin killing pc for a living could work properly on amia. There is simply too many implications involved with killing other player characters on a regular basis. The solution to that? The perfect solution? I wouldn't know anything about perfection. What I have found to be a decent solution however is simply to not do it very often. Even though my character is an assassin he has not really killed that many. What do the assassin do instead? Well he rp being what he is. You evolve the form and being of the assassin you have.

Hence I am greatly sadden if people disregard the assassin class because there has been a few issues with assassinations causing ooc complications. If you like watched the Hitman film, played the Assassin's Creed game and thought "hey, this is awsome", make an assassin. Challenge yourself with making one that both you and all those you interact with enjoy. I belive that to be the prime purpose of the assassin class though as I said thats probably not the best solution, but I have found it an enjoyable one.

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...Hereof follows that the social contract is only beneficial as long as all have something and none have too much...
- Rousseau Book 1 Chapter 9 in "The Social Contract"

It's in the rules. Someone mentioned it above somewhere. If you're going to assasinate, you need to inform a DM. If they are unavailable, then you inform the target.

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Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.

Isnt that what the rider on my post says *frowns and goes to double check* Yup I am sure it does.

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Siggy by Maryn

I didn't read passed the first couple of posts, but if I might be so bold as to just jump in and make a prayer-shot... While you're hunting the people who are about to be assassinated, you've probably been in the situation where your target suddenly logs off either when you get near enough to hit them or when you first realise they're on, or something similar.

Take into consideration that you can't assassinate someone who's offline, and only take jobs against people you either know, or talk to the player OOCly before you accept the job. If nothing else, you can turn it into a plot: Date, time, RP.

I'd dare say that PvP isn't part of an Assassin's job, though. Have you tried stabbing them in an RP match, instead of dropping in from stealth and *Jab!*?

You might find it's more tolerable for both yourself and your victim if it's done through emotes, and then the victim is disarmed and dragged off ... Or in those cases where capturing the person without harming them (Which I've always found to be the most fun, when dealing with the RIGHT people), trying to tie them up and drag them off.

Your point of, "Assassins aren't supposed to give their victims a snowball's chance of escaping" is absolutely, 100% correct. But! For those of us who play our characters separately from ourselves, -we- might know it (And will accept it), but our character will be standing there conversing until they see the blades at their throat.

The best part about dealing only with players you've talked to about it? The victims' player doesn't complain, and you don't have to wait for a DM, or waste a DM's time, with trying to straighten out a potential future - or current - mess. All around, both players win.

This is probably never going to happen (or work) But right now My plan if I get ambushed by an assassin is to polymorph into a zombie, fall down, and bluff they killed me to hard I turned into a zombie and wander off looking for brains.

... it's truly a flawless plan really. Those Assassins will never know.

However, if the player went with it (and I think ~anyone~ would see through the ruse) it would be a good laugh and they'd probably still get me.

I fully accept that in the world of Amia, there are Assassins, and death is their business. That's pretty much the best way to take down a character like Drannok. If you give a Sorcerer (IC) warning, you probably just lost.

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Drannok Stranvil - Mystran Loremaster
Rugnar Wildbrew - Dwarvern Scout
El'thanion Nuleaf - Wood Elf Shifter (Inactive)
Thayzin Goldenmaul - Gold Dwarf Paladin of Moradin (Inactive)

Back when I played an assassin, he'd actually walk up to the person he was hired to kill, and tell them they were going to die by his hands, smirk, and vanish.

The paranoia they got from that alone was great rp, and depending on the situation, he'd either strike then or wait for the oppritune moment.

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"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.

On a different server, I had mine break into an enemy faction's guildhall, get into their throne room and lay down some epic traps (all under DM supervision might I add) and leave a tell tale mark. It was kind of a warning to them not to mess with "the Mob..." so to speak.

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Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell
Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks
Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess

Back in the days of Wyrmhold's former title, it was essentially the Cordor of Evil. The Condominium of Sin if you will. There was a throne but no one agreed who was in charge. Every day there was an epic trap on it incase some sucker decided he was in charge. Fun stuff. When someone actually managed to claim it, it was somewhat impressive because that means they got enough people in the place to agree and either disarmed/survived the trap.

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"Freedom is the Right of all sentient beings."
-Optimus Prime.

Assassinations, on amia are a very complex thing. Many of those willing to play the class and undertake the responsibility of playing a true assassin should be commended for there effort and there contribution to the roleplaying environment.

There precautions in place to help assassin on amia has come a long way. It may seem the restrictions are high and that it is almost pointless to play an assassin. That there will be high risk of metagame, and accusations of grieving. But todays assassin has it a lot easier than a few years back.

If im right (correct me if I am wrong) assassins now have to give a warning before setting off to there target. This can be either by them or by a dm passing on the message. Yes this can mean players play differently, buffing or staying in enclosed spaces with lots of other players/gaurds. That does not mean you loose the element of surprise far from it infact.

This warning can come a month in advance, the job is ongoing and if your willing you can finally strike out of the blue with the screenshot of acceptance as proof. Or the attempt can come seconds after the warning has been accepted.

Secondly, if a player meta games your character for assassinating them I have adopted a view of, black list. I had my mains rp changed completely too many times by unexplained knowledge of captives being held somewhere, and strange witnesses to assassinations. If you meta game me its your loss not mine your blacklisted and I don’t need to rp with you. You’re a disgrace to the RP community and my time can be spent with someone else.

Lastly, assassins can work well on amia, the deciding factor here is the player who plays the assassin. Its up to you to keep up to date knowledge of conflicts and whether jobs you take on are grievance from another player. It is up to you to keep tabs on players who have reputations for meta gaming. It is up to you to understand you cant win all the time, weeks of hard work can go down the drain.

Amia still has many great assassins, I have rp’d with numerous factions who incorporate them into there RP. There not a dieing breed but instead I like to think, those that play properly with minimum complaints are the crème de le crème of rp’ers. Much like a properly played druid paladin monk RDD etc.


On a side note I always feel assassinations and bounty collecting are something you should only get one stab at. Not something to try at again and again, the victim or villain shouldn’t have to deal with constant attacks from one person trying to make gold.

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Ray's song! Thanks to Amarice, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujzp9ffPwPM

I...am deeply hurt. I am full of disgust, anger, and frustration at you people...Here you are, playing a game where you can steal, raise the dead, kill monsters even some that are humanoid, you play a game where killing is all around you...Not only that, its a Role-Play game. ROLE PLAY. Let me say it once more because some of you don't understand. R O L E P L A Y do you whine and scream for a dm when your killed by a monster? No, of course you don't, because its apart of the G A M E But ohhhh GOD if another person kills you, its whine whine whine whine whine. SHUT UP!! People killing other people actually happens! Oh, whats that little timmy? You didn't know and thought the world was made of lollipops and gumdrops? DEAL WITH IT. Your playing a game where killing and being killed is done on a daily basis! Infact! Most of the players that complain are the ones that kill things to level up, and get killed by those exact things. Hell! I bet half of them are the type of people who send ooc msgs to get raised because they cant handle it! They want everything given to them on a silver platter, and dont want to EVER suffer any kind of penalty, even if most pvp-deaths have NO penalty what-so-ever, thats right kiddies, you get oocly raised and suffer NO exp/gold loss...But still, your butts sore, and instead of using that 5 small amount of minutes to powerlevel up your 6 int orc who can speak perfect english and talk common while shifted in animal form, you have to wait their for 5 minutes or till someone finds you, or if ur killer is nice enough, let you continue on ur way after they leave the transition...

Now that im done venting...Lets get down to the point shall we?

Assassin. Its a class and a profession... Druids care for everything natural and protect it, necromancers raise the dead and bend them to their will, paladins protect all thats good and smites evil, like necromancers. Rogues steal things and robs people, sometimes even if they have to kill them for it. Assassins? THEY ASSASSINATE PEOPLE.

Seriously, this a role-playing game. If your an assassin, then your an assassin! Did president kennedy get a call the day before from his assassin? "Hey! How ya doing kennedy, just wanted to tell you im going to assassinate you tomorrow anddd...Well, just wanted to give you the heads up. No pun intended. Haha *thumbs up* oh! and uhh..we cool right? we cool?".

You bet your ass he didn't get a call like that. If he did, do you really think he would get in his car and parade around, waving to everyone? HELL NO. He would go and hide in the white house, with triple the amount or even more than that, of bodyguards, that would be constantly on the look out. He would wear a protective armor vest, and probably have a gas mask on hand just in case, and he would stay out of view from windows.

And..What is up with that? Getting permission from the player before attempting to kill them? Uhh...What?!? "Sorry, I cant take this contract hit. Why? Because he doesn't want to die for 5 minutes." No...That is just ridiculous. At the very -max- I would probably, if I was nice enough...Get one of my friends to send the ooc msg to the guy...But even that could cause problems because they will mostlikely metagame!

"Warning, someone is going to assassinate you, just giving you the msg."
*Gee, I feel like staying inside my locked castle all day today.* orr...*// my dad needs to use the computer. Bye!* and he logs off...OR. *(on AIM: "Hey, guys. Need your help, someone is going to try to assassinate me. Come with me and rp with me, cast invisable on yourselves, or sneak around with while whispering to me. If *name* Shows up, you get ready to knock him down. Oh and you cast several bigbys spells. Oh! And you cast harm on him. Hehehe, perfect!"

Its an IC function. Its an IC profession. Its an IC class. Why should be OOCly tell them that were going to kill them? Why even make that a rule? Death is common in the game. Players kill and get killed from npcs ALL the time. And damnit! Pvp death has no penalty as well! Why do we have to ruin a perfectly good rp with throwing around OOC warnings!

I thought this was an rp server! There shouldn't be any ooc in a rp server, because its all suppose to be IC! Your not role playing when your ooc, its bad enough people can see names hovering over characters bodies, its bad enough that you can check to see if a certain person is on by looking at the server list. But its down right horrible that you want to degrade this even more by forcing assassins to give a heads up to the player that they have been hired to kill!? Its a proven fact that human beings, when faced with impending death, will do whatever it takes to survive.

Not only that, but with the easy ability to give items Freedom Of Movement, you make assassin a even worse class to play! Why not just take off the hired killer job, restrict assassin and pvp completely, while you spoon feed the people that live in bubbles, upstairs in their nice big white house, while they watch their favorite shows on the "happy-time giggle" channel, where "mr donkey is sad today because he got pink ice-cream instead of blue ice-cream. But oh look! Here comes mr penguin who in the end brings mr donkey a whole tub of blue ice-cream! Ohh no, mr penguin just tripped and scraped his knee, spilling the ice cream! But don't worry! The smiley-wizard-man showed up, using his magical powers, the ice cream is back to normal, and mr penguin got all healed up and they all laugh and sing while eating blue ice cream." Ya know what ticks me off!?! Mr penguin wasn't hurt! They didn't even add a tiny red spot on the ground or his knee, because thats too much violence!

Oh and during that short time, half the people reading this right now, just cried twice. Once when mr donkey didn't get his ice cream, and again when the penguin tripped and had a rainbow shooting out of his knee.

In a game thats entire economy and way of life is based on some form of killing things, you have no right to scream mommy when you die, because you could only prevent it permanently with one option, or prevent it temporarily with another option.
#1. Afraid of violence? Return this game to the store.
#2. Don't want to ever die? Not going to happen, sooner or later, you will die. You could probably stay alive longest by standing around cordor near the temple. Though even in cordor, your still likely to die, as I,ve been killed twice in cordor south. *or was it north? I think once in both.*

Have you heard people say "use common sense?" or Use common knowledge? Well, heres some common knowledge for ya! Why play a video game thats full of monsters, weapons, and the ability to kill or get killed if you dont want to EVER die and scream and whine if you do?

want a game where you always win no matter what? Play the "click or dont click" game. Click the screen, you win! Dont click the screen for 2 seconds? YOU WIN! ZOMG YOU WIN EVERY TIME! go play that and sell your nwn game because clearly your not ready for a "big boys" game.

another common knowledge, everybody dies. Whether you sit still your entire life, or go out risking your life by fighting things, you will -die-. Whether it be a mugger, a creature, a disease, a heart attack, or old age, YOU WILL DIE. If you hate dieing and cant possibly handle death, why are playing on this server? Why are you even playing never winter nights?

Oh, and also Hey! Im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your bard, just randomly walked by and started singing. You never warned me before hand that you were going to walk near my character and start singing, and you never gave me a chance to avoid your singing ICly.

Hey, Im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your cleric just blessed and healed me without warning me oocly first. You also didnt give me a way out to avoid the buffs ICly, you just cast them on me, not giving me a warning or chance to avoid it.

Hey, im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your rogue just pickpocketed me without giving me an ooc warning that you will be pickpocketing me. You also didnt give me a way to avoid being pickpocketed ICly, you just walked up, bumped into me and used your skill on me, and now i lost 15 gold.

Hey, im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your druid/ranger just lost control of his wild animal near me and I got attacked without any OOC warning that it might happen. You also didn't give me an IC way to get away from this conflict because it got untamed right as you passed me by.

Hey, im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your Wizard/sorc just cast fireball to save me but I also got hit by the fireball. You didnt give me ooc warning that you were going to do it, and you didnt icly give me a chance to avoid that fireball.

Hey, im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your barbarian just farted near me without giving me ooc warning ahead of time. And you didnt give me an IC way to back out of the situation before you just let it rip.

Hey, im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your fighter/paladin/monk just saved my life without giving me OOC warning you were going to help me, and you didnt give me an IC way to avoid your help.

Hey, im reporting you to a dm. Why? Because your Assassin just assassinated me without giving me an OOC warning before hand, and you didnt give me an IC way of avoiding it.
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gee, it blends in so well with all those other complaints. Wanna know whats so common about them?
#1: each involves using a form of OOC warning, which is pointless because why give the OOC warning if they cannot use it at all since that would be considered metagaming.
#2: They all restrict role-play that are common with those classes, and allow metagaming.

If assassins give ooc warnings to those they have to kill, I guess that means we can give ooc tells about where were dead and hoping someone will come by *area name* Go down south, go north from the ruins, and find my body. I guess that also means we can OOCly tell other players where certain players are and how many people are near them right now. Which also means we can send OOC messages to friends saying that they wish someone or some people might show up at *this location* On the south road because right now im being mugged/picked on by *enter names here*....I mean, its doesent really matter, since everyone avoids metagaming and their character would in no way react to this ooc information since they themselves don't know it. So if giving ooc information on assassinations is fine, then I suppose giving other ooc messages will be fine too, since it doesent matter and players will be totally uneffected by this OOC information which in -no way- could help change what their character -might- do, its just... you know, giving them a heads up OOC message which would NEVER EVER make them react differently then when they didn't know this information in the first place.

Could that be...any more ridiculous? Probably could. But lets get real here folks...Why warn people OOCly that your going to kill them, when the results should, 100%, be the exact same way they would have been if you didn't give warning? Its not like your going to stop if they say "no". Don: "I want you to kill this person, for a million gold." Luis: "Very well." *msg received* Luis: "Nevermind, I dont want the job...I rather be a ballet dancer, its my true calling." *twirls out of the building.*

I understand refusing torture type rp, because that truly is offensive...But refusing to be killed by a player? Thats just down right idiotic. What else do you do? Log out when your almost dead? Scream at the dms to smite and ban the npc because its trying to kill you? Go back to playing Barbie online and never EVER come back to NWN again. Thats right...Groom your pink pony. Ohh Ohh look! Hes feeding sparkles, oooo WHOSE A PRETTY SPARKLES. WHOSE A PRETTY SPARKLES! YES YOU ARE, YES YOU ARE! YOUR MY PRETTY PONY! YES YOU ARE! ~end rant~

-yes...this was so agravating, I spent 2 hours writing this and coming up with clever ways to smack those "bubble-buys/girls" who cant stand to lose or see violence, yet they play never winter nights. All of this, is the truth to my belief, and I think everyone of them should sell their game right now, and go back to watching vegetales and playing Barbie Online. (Or if their a tincy wincy bit more mature, viva pinyata, though that may be a stretch, because pinayatas dont live forever.)

TL/DR with epic necro focus.

EDIT: okay, it made my eyes bleed but I read it just right now. You know, you can just OOC tell them that they're a target for assassination. It doesn't mean that you have to tell them that you're about to take them out right this instant. Plus, you do have the option of telling a DM instead.

Urm. You don't need to inform the target you're about to kill them.

if a dm isnt on, then it says you have to. And for alot of us, its very hard to find a dm thats on at that time.

Im just very annoyed that this was or still is even an option. You shouldn't have to give ooc information if it shouldn't effect the actual turn out of the thing thats about to happen. Ya know? Why warn them if they cant do anything about it icly? All that does is invite metagaming.

seferz, you're new to the forums, so this should be in very recent memory. EDIT - Seems I blur-eyed a 2007 for a 2009. O well. Point remains; you agreed to these terms and conditions:




That means. Play nice and don't flame.


The rules are in place for good reason, and have been for a good long time. If you want them changed, go about it the right way, and that's by -not- opening one of your first posts on this forum with borderline flaming, insults, and being a general prick to your peers and to the DM Team.

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Mostly Retired

Interesting rant.
Checking the PvP rules thread beforehand might have been good, or asking a DM instead, however the tone of the rant is hardly conducive to constructive discussion, and makes it all the harder to read and less likely to be taken seriously.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Gah sorry, things like this just really bug me. I,ll stick to one thing in the rant then... Why warn people OOCly that your going to kill them, when the results should, 100%, be the exact same way they would have been if you didn't give warning.

It invites metagaming, thats all it has purpose for. So the rule is forcing metagaming, and forcing OOC messaging which ruins the whole point of "RP"

And its true, you can message a dm, but depending on timezones, there is a big chance you wont see a dm as much as other people do...So why not just remove such a silly rule that forces metagaming and OOC messaging?

While I agree with you about it being a nuisance (and understand that you were upset), being in a timezone lacking in DMs myself, the rule is there to stop griefing. I think you can send screenshots to a DM of all your previous dealings to try and convince them that there is enough evidence to support your assassination.

That said, I have no idea how assassination works, having avoided it thus far myself (as the instigator at least), so I'll let more knowledgeable people answer your concerns.

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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player

يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل

Does it force you to metagame? Not really; only if you allow it to or if the other person says 'No' ( A rarity, considering the sort of people who do get assassination marks are typically the sort to, consciously, bring it upon themselves).

Does it force the other person to metagame? Not really. Mature players will filter it out mostly, especially if you say "You're going to get assassinated at some point " and not "You're about to be assassinated".

However, what it -does- do, is keep things in line with our own PvP rules that we have kept for a nice long time now. Rules that work, and rules that permit players to have an option as to whether or not they want their character to be randomly beaten up without warning.

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Mostly Retired

You can tell a DM via the forums, that you want to assassinate someone and got a reason for it, and we can deliver the warning to the victim without your character's ID getting compromised even accidentally. Or tell us ingame. Whatever works. Just make sure we know who's the victim!

The DM involvement is a brake on griefing. Back in the old days, you had to inform the player(or have a DM inform) of an impending attempt, which had the drawbacks you mentioned, so that was revised to the current rule where you just need to get a DM's approval, with the old system as Plan B.

As Yurell mentioned, the DM doesn't need to be in the DM client at the time to approve a hit. Plenty of them have forum but not game access for many hours a day, so DM coverage there is around 24/7. Check what DM's are on the forums and send some screens and show why the hit's to be carried out.

It's not even as if most hits are going to be refused; the point of the system is that it means some griefy assclown can't just hire a string of people to hit the same person over and over for a giggle.

To be honest, back when I was still a DM and was involved in revising the rules, I didn't think anyone with legitimate IC reason for ordering a hit would be so impatient that they'd resort to Plan B.

I think most of the people who have contributed to this thread would be fine with having their characters assassinated.

The whiney/greifey/pridegamer people aren't usually sophisticated enough to discuss and remedy their problems, and just log on the server and be douchebags, thus they never get the message.

I agree though that a warning some days in advance and DM supervision is the way to go. If someone refuses to be assassinated or blatantly metagames then just ignore them and look for people who are cool with dying for 5 minutes with no penalty whatsoever.

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Vaylek - The Worst Guy
Pu Liu - Descendant of the Great River Dragon

Frankly, the only time I'm irked by being killed is when I feel the other person has cheated/been unsporting, or done it to grief/harass/annoy, or to mock me in a thinly-veiled OOC way because their fully-buffed, maxed out Ogrillon devcritting WM has beaten my unprepared little Hin Bard girl....while I was typing a comment or emote, or while I was AFK.

(the last bit is, of course, a wild exagerration, and refers to no-one in particular, as I have never been taken down in anything quite resembling that way).

Having said all that, I suppose what sums it up best is that I play here to r/p, and I can be happy enough if the bulk of the r/p takes place after my char is dead, but I prefer there to be plenty of good r/p beforehand.

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

To be fair, even Dalai Lama might be irked and shocked when an assassin suddenly appears out of the blue, cuts you into little pieces in one or two rounds, and disappears without a word. That WTF moment comes quite fast and has probably already done its damage when the explanation finally comes via Tells: "Hey, I just assassinated you."

That shock is no excuse to keep whining after the explanation is given, but it might be good the assassin is mindful and understanding of the victim's immediate reaction too. So as not to answer the first angry OOC tells with equal anger, but to remain calm and fair.

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I've been assassinated a couple of times now and thus far it's been fine and dandy. That said I've been pointlessly meta-game killed on the pretext of 'assassination' a few times as well. The main difference was the way it was handled after the killing.

One of them the Assassin walked up, said "Yep, that's her" and walked away. Fantastic! I had no idea what it was for, none at all. Great assassin RP though. Why the hell should they care who or what I am, just a job.

The other ones were faction based and were done very well for the circumstances, being that they lead to further RP. But(!), then there is the pointless 'warning 1 second before kill assassination' that clearly has no IC foundation.

It is thanks to the latter that we have these very annoying and counter productive PvP rules regarding assassinations. Blame the irritating twerps that ruin it for people that want to be a real Assassin.

Perhaps if the OOC notification came in the form of 'scuttlebutt' news relevant to the character. They are told by a local tavern keeper that; "Shady characters, known thugs, have been asking after them. Last fella they asked about wound up in the Trackless Sea. Be careful." Just an example, the information could come from a 'rat' if the target is a Guard or Knight, or a spy or anything else. Making it IC is just about a little bit of patience.

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Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...

Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin

Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.

the_incognitos@live.com

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately too, and it does relate to assassinations.

I think one problem with pvp in general is that you can't really RP during it, only after it, once youve tied the person up and raised them. If you try and RP or emote before the pvp starts, you invite a suprise attack on yourself. If your already hostiled then typing at all can really be suicide for your character.

Someone already mentioned it earlier I think but pvp really does kill RP. Create future RP/story, sure, but the process of pvp is really just a competition of builds, skills and operating systems/internet connections - an OOC exercise. I always view it as a big OOC thing I have to button bash through in order to get over with so I can start RPing again. Then when I try to start talking IC again and dramatising the deaths that occured, someone jumps out at me and punishes me for typing by starting pvp again! This is a problem! RP disadvantages your chances of winning pvp, especially for assassins.

I'd love it if we could all emote the way our character fights, make witty remarks during combat or even just grunt as we take a hit. But we can't.

This was a bit off topic but I guess what I'm trying to point out is that people will have a problem with being assasinated because conceptually and mechanically the assassin isn't there to RP. Conceptually and mechanically the assassin is supposed to assassinate people: On a RP server that means win pvp as quickly as possible.

People lose pvp to the assassin and then feel cheated because no RP occured before the pvp, so they whine at you to make themselves feel better about their build and also to make you feel bad because... they suck!

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Vaylek - The Worst Guy
Pu Liu - Descendant of the Great River Dragon

Good points, rather better made than I managed to do, I think.

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"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.

I think assassinations should always be initiated by someone else and not the assassin himself. For instance

Bob and Joe get into a heated argument and Joe humiliates Bob in front of his friends, family... Bob threatens to kill Joe if he doesn't apologize but Joe laughs at his face because he knows that he's stronger than Bob and Bob knows that too. So, Joe walks away laughing, insulting Bob further. So Bob obviously very angry and helpless thinks that he should find someone to teach Joe a lesson. He finds a person suitable and capable for the job, they agree on the price and suddenly Joe is a marked man soon to be dead.

Ok, so basically what I want to say is that an IC way out could be given by a third person, in this case Bob and the assassination can be kept a surprise as well as the identity of the assassin. And when the assassin finally comes after Joe he can kill him then OOC raise him and they could RP that Joe is mortally wounded unable to move just lying there on the ground and the assassin could then do some RP of the "Bob sends his regards" type.

Just a thought, hope it made more sense to you than it did to me

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The biologist wants to be a chemist.
The chemist wants to be a physicist.
The physicist wants to be God.
God wants to be a mathematician.

I've had a character get called in all of ONCE for a mission involving targeting and felling someone.

This was not an assassination , as it was a more sudden command to .. well, deal with someone.



That said, if you for some reason need to assassinate a PC target, the rules can be followed as many DMs have pointed out, in a way which does not compromise YOU as the assassin.

Here's an interesting point to consider for people who are bitching/whining:

1) From what I have seen at least in my own Evil-side experience, at least when it comes to the Evils I've ran with, Assassination is NOT the first option, it is NOT a First Strike action. Or, if it is there is a very specific reason for it and there's a lot of follow up to come afterwards and not just your classic body disposal. The odds are, if an assassin's been sent, you have done something to alienate the assassin.

I have had a character do things to prompt assassination actions against him. It does get annoying, yes but at the same time it can prove interesting. I don't wanna reveal details on my being at the business end of an assassin as funny enough there are some details I'm still not 100% on about that and due to the relevant character of mine not being alive, I'm not gonna plumb for them.

2) Many people here are right. Assassinations, are not meant to be FAIR. They are meant, to get their target. That means using devious tactics, trickery, subterfuge and subtlety. Asking someone not to use these things in an assassination makes me want to bang my head against a wall repeatedly.

3) You can be captured/assassinated and still have fun. Really. So long as you are not pressed for time, you typically end up out of a situation of capture or assassination before too long. The rules take this into account (I believe it's no more then 24 RL hours without PC consent).

4) The beautiful thing abotu playing on Amia so long as you've got the mind for it, you can play different characters. Think of them like different flavours of Ice cream. One day I feel like Chocolate, the next Strawberry. One day I feel like playing my Weave Knight, one day my Tradesman Gnome. If you are willing and able to play multiple characters, take advantage of this lovely feature of Amia's.

Ponder these points over, and as always if you want to talk further with me on them in PMs I welcome it.