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Is there any real in-depth information on the Northmen?.. it seems most of Savage Frontier and The North is concentrating on the Uthgardt.

But.. I'm looking for barbarians more akin to the Norse viking than the odd loincloth-in-the-snow primitives. (Anyone seen The 13th Warrior? oddly enough a pretty decent reference)

Specifically, information on the naming, language, and political/social structure of the Northmen - specifically those around Ruathym. Failing FR cannon available info, how much of Real-world norse can I toss into it?

Thanks!

Edit:---------

On a secondary note, what is the belief system of the Northmen? I have this much:

Quote:

The deities whom the Northmen honor include Auril, the Frostmaiden; Tempus, the Lord of Battles; Umberlee, the Bitch Queen; and occasionally Valkur the Mighty.

And it goes on to say something about Tempus being the primary deity because of their warlike society..

But what does this actually mean to the temp..ite? What is the goal of the follower of tempus? Surely, he aids in battle in the mortal plane.. but what's the reason for their system? Values are ..valued.. because they achieve a certain end in most cultures. Christians, for the most part believe they go to heaven for living good lives. Buddhists believe in the cycle of reincarnation, and eventually escaping that cycle. The norse believed that those who lived glorious lives and died in battle were taken by the Valkyrie to Valhalla so they might fight at Odin's side at Ragnarok.

I've read up on Warrior's Rest.. but from what I've found basically just says its filled with people fighting one another for all eternity... what's the goal?

As well.. what are the afterlife myths? the process? Does tempus have his own celestial minions that have any real effect in the universe? (such as the valkyrie in the norse set up). Do the glorious dead simply die and wake up in Warrior's rest.. or is there more to it?

I notice more and more the guides are published for the players to know what's going on, but don't always paint a very good picture of how their characters would view and understand these things. It's written very often more as a clinical analysis than as folklore as the characters might be familiar with.

I actually tried looking up Northmen lore just yesterday, but I found very little.

Ruathym is their ancestral home, but I think they've mostly migrated elsewhere. Ruathym is now governed by pirates and other seafarers, some kind of a federation. Illuskans are the primary racial stock, I guess, but I'm not sure. 2e FRCS or Races of Faerûn didn't really discuss Ruathym in depth. There's some kind of a Northmen population in Ruathym still, as is presented in Elaine Cunningham's novel Windwalker. It's a fine read, so unless you dread light fantasy, pick it up in a library. (They even have it in Finland, translated, so it should be easy enough to find.)

The Northmen of today live primarily on the Moonshaes. They've established several kingdoms there, competing with the native Ffolk on the southern islands. Apparently, they don't practice agriculture, which I find amazing and unbelievable for such an advanced culture. They raid a good deal, have forged some kind of a shaky alliance with the Ffolk whom they've terrorized and dominated. They sail around. They're pretty much based on the Norse culture, but I'd actually incorporate something slightly different from the real world, to flesh them out as a unique fantasy people rather than a Viking rip-off. I don't know what, exactly, but that's your call.

Followers of Tempus are known as Tempurans. I've never got into the deity much, but Faiths & Avatars is the obvious source you'd like to check. I suppose everyone's goal, ultimately, is goodness. Tempurans believe in glory, honour and the thrill of the battle. Most gods aren't very deep or philosophical, at least on the surface. They control very practical parts of life and afterlife, and many people are quite happy to worship Tempus for success in battle in life, and a fine afterlife.

IronAngel wrote:

I actually tried looking up Northmen lore just yesterday, but I found very little.

Ruathym is their ancestral home, but I think they've mostly migrated elsewhere. Ruathym is now governed by pirates and other seafarers, some kind of a federation. Illuskans are the primary racial stock, I guess, but I'm not sure. 2e FRCS or Races of Faerûn didn't really discuss Ruathym in depth. There's some kind of a Northmen population in Ruathym still, as is presented in Elaine Cunningham's novel Windwalker. It's a fine read, so unless you dread light fantasy, pick it up in a library. (They even have it in Finland, translated, so it should be easy enough to find.)

The Northmen of today live primarily on the Moonshaes. They've established several kingdoms there, competing with the native Ffolk on the southern islands. Apparently, they don't practice agriculture, which I find amazing and unbelievable for such an advanced culture. They raid a good deal, have forged some kind of a shaky alliance with the Ffolk whom they've terrorized and dominated. They sail around. They're pretty much based on the Norse culture, but I'd actually incorporate something slightly different from the real world, to flesh them out as a unique fantasy people rather than a Viking rip-off. I don't know what, exactly, but that's your call.

Followers of Tempus are known as Tempurans. I've never got into the deity much, but Faiths & Avatars is the obvious source you'd like to check. I suppose everyone's goal, ultimately, is goodness. Tempurans believe in glory, honour and the thrill of the battle. Most gods aren't very deep or philosophical, at least on the surface. They control very practical parts of life and afterlife, and many people are quite happy to worship Tempus for success in battle in life, and a fine afterlife.

So I need to do more research on Moonshae then. Is there any particular resource that's 3e+ relevant to the island I should be catching up on?

I also found the agriculture thing.. bizarre. The norse didn't have much agriculture either - they primarily raised livestock - but they *did* have it, even if it was looked upon as a less-noble pursuit.

As far as incorporating something slightly different from the real world - would you be interested in tossing around ideas, or otherwise contributing? I know enough of the real-world norse to pull off the part, but I'm not fully familiar with the Realms as of yet to feel comfortable adjusting a culture of my own accord.

I'll do some research on tempus further. What's the likelyhood that the northmen would have their own twist/take on him?

---

Edit: Also.. do the northmen follow the classic, decentralized petty dynast.. Jarl/Thane Great-Hall structure.. or are they now more centralized with actual kings and proper fuedal states?

The heroes of the Great Hall are the hallmark of the Icelandic Saga (and terrible fun all around)

And is "Faiths & Avatars" a different book than "Faiths & Pantheons"?

2nd Edition:

Faiths and Avatars, Demihuman Deities, and Powers and Pantheons

3rd Edition:

Faiths and Pantheons, which combines (and poorly I might say) the 2nd edition books noted above, after chopping a lot of really interesting things out of all of them.

....come to think of it, there may have been one or two more books I've missed, as well. If I did, I'm sure Iron can set it straight.

Warriors and Priests of The Realms contains some useful info on the strength of the followers of each deity, but the three you named are easily the best IMO - I use them all the time.

well.. fooey.

I don't have any AD&D 2e stuff, save for an old monster manual and a 1st Ed PHB.

bah humbug.

One question regarding the deity Helm: Forgotten realms Wiki states that he is now a dead power, but is that the case in Amia as well?

UGHHHHH

FR wiki is 4e now. The DnD wiki and the FR wiki are now by and large worthless trash. Can't touch 'em for Amia lore.

Damn. That's a hard hit. What's the easy to run to webpage for Forgotten Realms lore now? I need quick reference, especially for when I DM. Anyone?

That depends on what kind of realms lore. The Amia wiki accomendates the need for deities persay.

You can still use the realms wiki but you have to be very careful about what you use. Normally thogh you can easily see what has been added from the fourth edition. Sadly though many articles are indeed ruined for the purpose of amia, say the elf page.

I made a flagellant of Ilmater and as I found this character to be a lot of fun I might keep him instead of just having used him as some fun one time character. What I wondered are there any known flagellant cults of Ilmater around the forgotten realms, or any at all?

Kjetta wrote:

Damn. That's a hard hit. What's the easy to run to webpage for Forgotten Realms lore now? I need quick reference, especially for when I DM. Anyone?

I'd say Candlekeep.com

Phearnun wrote:

I made a flagellant of Ilmater and as I found this character to be a lot of fun I might keep him instead of just having used him as some fun one time character. What I wondered are there any known flagellant cults of Ilmater around the forgotten realms, or any at all?

Went scouting and found a few things though I cannot support it with cannon reference so at best take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Ilmater.htm wrote:

Shortly after the Time of Troubles, the reputation of the organized church was plagued by the actions of a neutral cult of Ilmater that believed in passing suffering around to others, especially nonbelievers. They were noted for self-flagellation, kidnappings, and inciting riots. Ilmater was not granting these cultists their powers or spells, and the Ilmatari church suspects that Cyric, Loviatar, or Beshaba was behind these deluded people. Fortunately, the cult has largely been eliminated due to a hostile response to its actions on the part of nobles and those in authority.

Though also found this;

http://davidcwood.com/adnd/campaign/bloodstone/ilmater.php wrote:

Flagellants believe that Ilmater is best communed with when one is suffering. They whip themselves and each other willingly to gain a closer understanding of their god. They exhort people to suffer for their sins and for the world to be saved from evil. They still heal, treat and care for others but make no attempt to alleviate pain. In fact, their cures tend to be very painful (but effective). Flagellants still use the bloodied rack as a symbol.

You can read more at;
http://davidcwood.com/adnd/campaign/blo ... lmater.php

http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Ilmater.htm

http://amiawiki.shatuga.com/index.php/Ilmater

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ilmater (this one cite it sources but keep in mind it is 4th and doesn't say a whole lot about flagellants in paticular)

Oh well, copypasting the Northmen section from the 2e Moonshae. I don't know what's changed in the recent years:

Quote:

The northmen arrived in the Moonshae
Islands quite recently. Their original
homes are the coastal lands north of
Waterdeep and the island kingdoms of
Tuern and Gunderland. Viewing the
Moonshaes at first as regions to plunder
and raid, they gradually settled
upon the lands they had terrorized,
merging with the Ffolk who remained
to create a strong and vital race of seafarers.
Those Ffolk who remained on the
northern isles accepted the gods, the
kings, and the customs of the
northmen. At first, this was the cost of
staying alive, but soon it became accepted
into the culture of these Ffolk.
The lands populated by the northmen
have become stable kingdoms, wellpopulated
and prosperous. But the
urge to travel the seas never sinks too
deeply into the breasts of these fierce
sailors, and this desire bursts forth into
action with regular frequency.
The lands of the Ffolk are not the only
target of the sailing northmen. They
have been known to raid the length of
the Sword Coast, striking Amn, Tethyr,
and even Calimshan as they venture
boldly southward.
They sail north as well, though not so
much to raid as to trade the profits of
their southern expeditions at the market
in Waterdeep, or to either of their
related nations at Tuern and Gunderland.
The northmen have developed a
rough alliance among their kingdoms
on the Moonshaes, with Grunnarch the
Red, Thelgaar Ironhand, and Raag
Hammerstaad exerting great influence
over their subject lords. When these
three kings agree on a course of action,
their men and ships can unite into a formidable
force. Fortunately for the
peace-loving Ffolk of the Moonshaes,
such alliances are rare.

Gods of the
Northmen

The northmen are not the most religious
of peoples, although they hold
several deities in a state of some reverence.
These deities are generally represented
by shamans among the
northmen. As the practitioners of religion
have a much lower status than the
warriors, such shamans are not common.
Rarely is a northman cleric
encountered who is higher than 7th or
8th level.
The deities held most sacred to the
seafaring raiders include Auril, the
Frostmaiden; Tempus, the Lord of Battles;
and Umberlee, the Bitch Queen. Of
course, a cleric declares his fealty to
only one of these deities, but a typical
northman warrior or sailor pays homage
to all three, at different times.
Auril is viewed as the bringer of winter
upon the world, and as such plays a
major role in the raiders’ society. She is
mollified with offerings of food and
strong drink in autumn and throughout
winter. These offerings are placed upon
a raft or small boat and launched into
the winter swells of the Sea of Moonshae
or the Trackless Sea. If a particularly
heavy storm or unusually savage
and enduring winter threatens to cause
a famine, Auril may be gratified with a
human sacrifice or two, placed upon a
similar raft and sent to sea and certain
death. Such sacrifices are usually
drawn from the ranks of prisoners or
slaves, but the northmen may send
members of their own people if there is
no alternative.
Tempus, the god of battles, receives
offerings from warriors before the
start of a battle. He is the patron of the
berserker and is generally viewed as
the protector of those raiders who succumb
to the berserking frenzy. After a
particularly successful battle, the
northmen may sacrifice one or more
prisoners to their battle god in gratitude
for his favor.
Umberlee, goddess of oceans, waves,
and currents, is greatly respected and
feared by the seafaring northmen. It is
customary to make an offering to the
Bitch Queen before every voyage. The
longer the journey, the more significant
the offering. As with the other deities
worshiped by the northmen, Umberlee
occasionally receives a live human sacrifice
from her awestruck followers.
Even so, Umberlee is held to cause shipwrecks,
drownings, and is the mistress
of the sharks that imperil stranded sailors.

After this, several pages describing the Northmen islands of the Moonshae and the realms there, follow. I've got the book, but I'm not gonna look through all that myself.

I'm not very familiar with Northmen, so I can't give any in-depth advice. It's been years since I read the novel in which they made an appearance. They still practiced the berserk rage during which a mighty warrior would transform into a beast, something their Rashemi cousins had long since forgotten.

QPR wrote:

One question regarding the deity Helm: Forgotten realms Wiki states that he is now a dead power, but is that the case in Amia as well?

I don't think so. Amia is set WAY before that, hell, Bane is not dead yet in our timeline.

Bane's already died. He came back. Like ten years ago. Real time, not FR time. Amia is somewhere around 1372-1373, maybe 1374 with very selective pickings from that year's events.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

I have a lore question for you Iron, if only out of curiosity. Just how is it that mortals kill deities to become them? Wouldn't the deities be super powerful and near impossible to kill for a mortal? Got a good example?

Yeah, we set ourselves basically at the cusp of "When Shit Went South" in the Realms, and cherry pick what events we do or don't want.

Iron, methinks we need to go back and make that list of what did and didn't happen, in the DM forums.

I'm off to bed now, I'll look into it tomorrow if no one else has time.

I think it's happened only under special circumstances: deity-sponsored mortals with godforged weapons, signifigantly weakened deities and epic heroes, deities tossed down from the heavens as happened during the Time of Troubles.

Actually, I do think it's been established at some point only a god can kill a god, and it can only happen in the victim's own realm. I can't think of any instances of mortals actually killing gods, aside from the recent stuff. Gareth Dragonsbane and his company, for example, fought Tiamat and banished her from the Realms, but she came back after a time. The Lady Penitent apparently retconned this immortality. I might be wrong, though.

EDIT: Yep, Tormak, we should. I've come to think it's probably best to say we stop at 1373, then say what happened according to canon from 1374, and then make up something it lead to, giving a neutral time frame for Amia to use on-going/recent events as people want. Oh well, another day. Now, sleep.

Question: Where does Amia's Timeline stand in respect to books such as 'Evermeet; Island of the Elves'?

Also, in Amia's timing, how long ago was The Time of Troubles?

IronAngel wrote:

Amia is somewhere around 1372-1373, maybe 1374 with very selective pickings from that year's events.

Time of Troubles - 1358 DR

Evermeet; Island of Elves - 1367 DR

So I belive both things have taken place on current Amia.

Edit; also take a look at this though it seems an update on the timeline is underway.

I've been trying to get some specific and detailed info about Shar/Shar's Weave, and simply can't find anything anywhere!

Is there a massive lore-gap when it comes to this, or is there a specific lorebook that I haven't looked at? (Haven't looked at -any- books, mind, as I dont have any. lawl!)

wakaman wrote:

I've been trying to get some specific and detailed info about Shar/Shar's Weave, and simply can't find anything anywhere!

Is there a massive lore-gap when it comes to this, or is there a specific lorebook that I haven't looked at? (Haven't looked at -any- books, mind, as I dont have any. lawl!)

Page 57 of the 3rd ed Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting talks all about it.
What in particular were you after?

I've got a weird one that Iron might be able to tell meh.

You always hear of Dragon Disciples boasting about their great-great-whatever being a dragon and that's why they can "bring out" the draconic traits they show.

Are there any other instances of magical creatures breeding with humanoids and then having a class to bring out the traits of that blood? Ive always found it a little silly that dragons just happen to be the only magical beings that do that. Like if all it takes is a polymorph into human form to "do the do" with a human, shouldn't there be like Androsphinx and Rakshasa Disciples as well? Or are there some already?

Most of the other tend tpo manifest strictly as Races instead of classes. I'd hazard a guess Dragon Disciple exists mainly because the name of the game is "dungeons and Dragons".

There are classes like Acolyte of the Flesh, and Diabolist, but those are characters that don't have the blood striving to obtain it, not one with a miniscule fleck strengthening it.

Yurell wrote:

wakaman wrote:

I've been trying to get some specific and detailed info about Shar/Shar's Weave, and simply can't find anything anywhere!

Is there a massive lore-gap when it comes to this, or is there a specific lorebook that I haven't looked at? (Haven't looked at -any- books, mind, as I dont have any. lawl!)

Page 57 of the 3rd ed Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting talks all about it.
What in particular were you after?

Anything and everything, realy. I've made google searches etc, but realy want to learn more about the two deities. Most of the information is extremely basic.

That's because most of the information is basic. Forgotten Realms wiki is pretty good if you ignore 4th ed stuff, but otherwise I don't have the time to rewrite a whole bunch f stuff from sourcebooks atm (but will do so later if someone else doesn't supply the info)

Edit: Scanning this was the best I could do atm.

If you ever get a chance to get a book on your hands;

Page 7,8 and 10 in Magic of Faerûn

56-60 in Faiths and Pantheons

57-58 in Player's Guide to Faerûn.

Oh and check your pms.

Thank you very, very much, Yurell and Maias... the combined info was realy useful - and I've gained a new pdf book from this which I'm gonna be reading throguh and throguh to better my mage roleplay.

What sourcebook are the age categories for drow on Amia based on? I've seen 80 year old drow be adults and 100 year old ones be children. The 3.0 Races of Faerun says they're the same as elves, but al other boos give different numbers.
So is there an official one or do we just suspend disbelief and move on?

Drow I assume would come to age quicker then elves because they have to fight for the right to exist. Ofcourse the coming of age would vary from place to place... it's inevitable. Some traditions would be different, even in neighbouring cities (even though they worship the same Goddess).

All in all it doesn't really matter. It's what the player decides personally anyway.

No canon book details aging for Drow or any other Elves, afaik. We know their max ages, but not much more, AFAIK.

We do have aging charts in the R&L forum.

Drow in Menzoberranzan go to the Academy at 25, IIRC, by the way. Doesn't mean they physically mature any sooner than other elves, just that elves can usually afford a longer childhood.

IronAngel wrote:

No canon book details aging for Drow or any other Elves, afaik. We know their max ages, but not much more, AFAIK.

We do have aging charts in the R&L forum.

Drow in Menzoberranzan go to the Academy at 25, IIRC, by the way. Doesn't mean they physically mature any sooner than other elves, just that elves can usually afford a longer childhood.

Wasn't there a page from a non-FR DnD book someone once posted here detailing it? I remember something about them maturing, physically, at essentially the same rate as humans, but not mentally until 100ish.

I would like know more about elven tradition, i looked in internet but wasn't sure how some description matches with that world that amia is, of Faerun etc..
My goal is to have a bladesinger sooo, you see how much lore im going to need XD
I reed up the lore part with that post from Ironangel and i describ very well what a bladesinger is.

Bladesinger: http://amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23551

What i mostly understood of it was that a bladesinger must be protecting the poeple, by the people i understood the elfs wich made me wonder if they should protect other race also?

A bladesinger must fully understood sculture (in amia? no idea), painting (emote your painting and describe what it's on it i suppose), poetry (as a french, it's twice harder to freestyle poetry in english so maybe i could get a good poetry site) and songs.
My obejectif is to get higher than simply emoting and litteraly speak of poetry and sing the songs as the character.

And so on, i could quote the entire topic.

I also had the idea of having a master and making the character progress as lvling, as he's about to be lvl 17.
The extreme idea of this is to be train and be a fully bladesinger when reaching lvl 30.
"extreme" as i always rush for lvl 30 >.<

In resume im looking for:
Elven tradition (special song and so on)
Poetry (why not D&D but good luck to find that)
And a master ingame if available (maybe be trained in a month but i understand i might take time).

Just a quick question - in Amia, who is the current Duchess of Malbolge? Glasya or the Hag Queen?

Glasya.

Cheers, it was just a 3.0 vs 3.5 thing

Acrid wrote:

I would like know more about elven tradition, i looked in internet but wasn't sure how some description matches with that world that amia is, of Faerun etc..
My goal is to have a bladesinger sooo, you see how much lore im going to need XD
I reed up the lore part with that post from Ironangel and i describ very well what a bladesinger is.

Bladesinger: http://amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23551

What i mostly understood of it was that a bladesinger must be protecting the poeple, by the people i understood the elfs wich made me wonder if they should protect other race also?

A bladesinger must fully understood sculture (in amia? no idea), painting (emote your painting and describe what it's on it i suppose), poetry (as a french, it's twice harder to freestyle poetry in english so maybe i could get a good poetry site) and songs.
My obejectif is to get higher than simply emoting and litteraly speak of poetry and sing the songs as the character.

And so on, i could quote the entire topic.

I also had the idea of having a master and making the character progress as lvling, as he's about to be lvl 17.
The extreme idea of this is to be train and be a fully bladesinger when reaching lvl 30.
"extreme" as i always rush for lvl 30 >.<

In resume im looking for:
Elven tradition (special song and so on)
Poetry (why not D&D but good luck to find that)
And a master ingame if available (maybe be trained in a month but i understand i might take time).

We discussed Bladesingers recently here:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12137

You can always RP your character becoming a master bladesinger by 30 and in a month, but you'll face quite a bit of disdain from many other characters. It takes years to learn even the basics, decades to become an actual bladesinger and probably centuries to be a master. My character, Kalliniel, has trained for over a decade but has no master anymore, so while he really is still an apprentice, he's had to study and advance on his own, and tutor the aspiring Amian bladesingers because there simply aren't any masters around. I doubt he'll ever become a true master, on par with his original (off-screen NPC) teacher let alone the legends of old, like Josidiah Starym. Reaching 30 is a bit problematic for someone who still has ways to go, but that can't really be helped. Kall will further advance by teaching others, refining his own style and learning special manouvers or spells that I might buy with DCs in the future. I guess it's the same as with wizards: getting to level 30 makes you mediocre, the same as everyone else. Going beyond that, through research, creation of trademark spells or dangerous quests into the planes makes you epic, an archmage.

But to answer your question, there's remarkably few elven songs or poems written. I haven't found any, IIRC. I have compiled various songs and sayings from a bunch of books (the Harper's Code has several), but they're mostly human.

Mine is the only bladesinger character I know of, with two aspiring students I know of. If you want to learn it with someone, as opposed to alone, I guess he's willing.

wow, thank you for your response, i tough maybe your char was a master, so how long in RL time has he been training?

Also, i plan to get lvl 30, do some rp stuff then maybe focus on becoming a bladesinger, it will depend on my playing availablility time.

A random though, since kara-tur is pretty much asia, does Yin-Yang exist in faerun lore? Both the philosophy and concept behind it, as well as the symbol itself (twirly black and white tear with dots).

Acrid: he's been training, on Amia, for a year and a few months, real time. But I don't mean to say your character couldn't call himself a master, or that you have to do it like me. It's just that, as elves, it would be rather short-sighted and arrogant to declare yourself master in anything, until after a few centuries of training. It's not just a bladesinger thing, though they're specifically said to need decades of training. Elven wizards genereally aren't archmages until they've studied for hundreds of years, and they generally can't even begin their long, long training in High Magic before the age of 300 or so, and that's unusually young.

Carter, Yurell: I just read this in the Last Mythal book 2, Farthest Reach, a few nights bacK: there was a reference to a surface elf's first bloom of adulthood, and it was said to be in the age 25-30. So that appears to be the time when they're more or less physically mature, capable of reproducing and holding a sword. It supports the line in Menzoberranzan which states that drow enter Tier Breche at 25.

Zante:

Yes, unfortunately there is. It's a horrible bastardization of actual Taoism, both the philosophy and the religion. In Shou Lung, the Way is the other main religion, the other being the Path of Enlightenment. (I don't quite understand that one, like Confucianism?) There's also tradition, revered like religion. The local faith consists of some gods and many, many spirits, ancestors, Immortals etc. The Celestial Emperor has his heavenly court, reflected in the nation's mundane rulership. More on the Way:

Kara Tur: the Eastern Realms wrote:

The Way
The followers of the Way are known as Chung Tao,
or Guides of the Way. The Way is much more of a philosophy
than a religion, because its adherents believe
that the true nature of the Way is unknowable. It’s
shrines are more like hermitages, and its very few
temples organized as monasteries or schools, teaching
a wide variety of subjects. The Way states that all
things in the Celestial Universe affect and are affected
by all others. There is no Good, Evil, Law or Chaos—
only the forces of the Universe, which may be manipulated
as desired. The proper student of the Way thus
recognizes this and strives to know the proper way in
which to use these forces.
A Chung Tao priest is actually something more of a
wizard than a monk or scholar, and both dang-ki (shukenja)
and wu jen may be followers of the Way. Powerful
positions within the faith are occupied by mages
or sorcerers more often than priests, and indeed,
many of the great wu jen of history have been Chung
Tao priests as well.
The use of power is often the subject of debate, and
so it is among the Chung Tao priests. In the earliest
days of the Empire, this caused a great rift in the unified
faith, with two main temple emerging from the
chaos. One group, known as the Black Chung Tao,
believe that the superior man has a duty to shape the
universe to his ends; directing the unenlightened of
the Earth to a higher goal. The second group, known
as the White Chung Tao, believe that there are no
superior men, only enlightened, ones, and that the
proper observance of the Way is in maintaining the
natural balance of events. The two sects are distinguished
by an identifying mark worn on the chest or
sewn on the garments. This symbol, representing the
concept of Yin and Yang, is a circle with one half black
and one half white. Within the center of each area is a
small dot of the opposing color, symbolizing that each
half is partially composed of the other. Among Black
Chung Tao, the black side is uppermost—among
Whites, the white side is uppermost.
In secret, these two forces have been battling for
control of the Empire (and thus the material world)
for the last 2,000 years. In some dynasties, the Black
Chung are deposed from the favor of the court; in others,
it is the White. Both use powerful sorceries and
servants to win ascendancy. It is not unknown for the
Black Chung Tao to employ assassination, illusion and
even demons to overthrow dynasties which have
thwarted them.
In this, they are opposed by the White Chung Tao,
who use their powers to subtly influence events and
support the balance. At present, the White Chung Tao
are ascendant and enjoy the favor of the Imperial
Family, but it is rumored that the Black Chung Tao are
already plotting a major challenge.

As you can see, yin and yang are completely misunderstood. Don't feel bad about doing it the right way, though. If you have to do it in the first place. I hate Kara-Tur, it's such a lazy rip-off.

Further information about Wild Dwarves and the Wild Dwarven community, my source lacks.

I am wondering, what type of relations do the drow have with Unseelie fey, and the drow pantheon have with them and the queen of air and darkness, the Unseelie queen.

There's no recorded interaction that I know of. The whole concept of Unseelie fey hasn't made much appearance in the Realms, and the fey of Toril are generally your typical woodland beings who avoid mortals.

Opustus, I will PM you info from Dwarves Deep. Races of Faerûn obviously has an updated entry.

I've been doing searches for ages on this subject but can't find a thing. Does anyone know anything about what the hin ghostwars was?

i.e. What was it over? What affects did it have? were there any heroes? , etc, etc.

The story is in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting or Races of Faerûn, or both. Can't remember for sure. If no one gets to it before me, I'll post a synopsis tomorrow. Just remind me. Basically, Ghostwise fell under the infuence of some evil spirit/fiend, started worshiping Malar, and Stronghearts lead the other hin of Luiren against them. Ghostwise were released of the corruption, but they were ashamed and swore not to speak again, retreated into the Choldalwood, you know the drill. Many Lightfeet were horrified by what they'd done, slaying kin, and couldn't bear to remain in the land that reminded them of it. So now Luiren is mostly inhabited by Stronghearts, who lead the campaign. I believe there was a name given to the champion and leader of the campaign, but I can't recall it.

Thanks for the quick response. I have the FR campaign setting so I'll look in that again. Maybe I missed it.

Should be under Luiren, in the geography section. Or I might be mistaken.

Yep. Sure is. The Regional History subheading under Luiren.

Finally, I can rest

Cheers for the direction, IronAngel

Found this in the Big Book of Small Folk. To be honest I don't know about the source, you'd have to ask BloodNashes about that.

Ghost wars

Around -100 DR, and evil spirit entered the forest. Under the leadership of a powerful cleric named Desva, the ghostwise halflings fell into darkness, worshiping Malar and glorifying in violence and bloodshed. Feral ghostwise hunters, their faces painted like skulls, prowled the forests in search of halfling prey. They grew ever stronger as Desva led them deeper into Malar's worship, teaching the greatest hunters to take shapes as werewolves and poising the forest's natural predators with maddening bloodlust. For a generation the Lluirwood was a place of death.

In -68 DR, a strongheart hunter named Chand became war chief of his folk and struck an alliance with the war chief of the lightfoot tribe. The two untied to root out the madness of the ghostwise halflings. Over three years each ghostwise stronghold and lair was found out and destroyed, until Chand himself slew Desva of the ghostwise in -65 DR. The fighting was merciless and awful---entire ghostwise villages were burned and their folk killed. Chand held to his purpose and saw to it that no hin warrior stayed his or her hand.

In the aftermath of the Hin Ghostwards, the ghostwise halflings were reduced to a handful of their former number. Most were exiled from the Lluirwood, although a handful who had repudiated Desva and joined with Chand's warriors were allowed to stay. Those who left settled in the Chondalwood, taking an oath never to speak until they had atoned for the animal-like savagery of their past. The atonement is long past, but to this day ghostwise halflings think long and hard before they choose to speak.

Many of the lightfoots, horrified by what the Chand and the stronghearts had done, chose to leave the Lluirwood. They became a nomadic people spread across all of northern Faerun, adopting the customs and traditions of the folk they traveled among.

The stronghearts remained in the Lluirewood. Unchecked by the lightfoot or ghostwise ways, they began to clear the forest and settled in semipermanent villages that grew large and more permanent with each passing generation. They changed from woodland nomads to settled farmers and craftsfolk, defending their lands against numerous invasions and raids over the years. In time some lightfoots returned to the new realm of Luiren, but this is now a strongheart land.

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