AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Just a little question, this has been bugging me for a while but does Dev Crit basically just ignore any would be save from Epic Dodge?

E.Dodge means the first attack of a round is missed, any hits after that are made against your ac. So you roll a crit first attack, it wont hit you roll a crit again it will hit. Most e.dodgers saves suck on amia =1 dead edodger.

first successful attack in a round. But that besides the point.

What I'm asking is lets say that there is one attack only, a Dev Crit, the person being Dev Crit triggers E.D. does it basically ignore the save?

EDIT: Or is it just the case when there is a successful threat roll on top of a Dev Crit hit that it causes this?

Nah, Epic Dodge dodges the first successful hit.

So if you roll a critical hit with 1 attack, Dev Crit, against a ED'er, you won't hit them.

Most of the time though, the Dev Critter will have 4 attacks/round, so will be going hit-hit in their first second of battle. This means that if they roll a crit, they'll likely kill the ED'er because the second hit will be the killing blow.

In short, a critical first attack will be dodged negating the need for a dev crit.

That's what I'd thought too but twice this week I've gotten the same thing, one dev crit attack (I think in both cases they beat my AC on the threat role too) followed by one epic dodge then for some reason I still role my fort save and die.

Depends on the scenario. I'd best leave before Ruce arrives, you'll be knocked off your feet with the explanation.

I'd guess it was the flurry bug; a lot of effects are resolved at the end of a flurry, Devcrit included. In this case you were hit-but-not-really-because of-Epic-Dodge and Devcrit'n'failed in the same flurry, and it reported them in the wrong order.

Devcritters will be familiar with the phenomenon of Devcritting the same thing twice because of this bug.

related question:
does a parry block count as a hit in an epic dodge scenario?

Epic dodge is win vs smite though.

belgianbonzai wrote:

related question:
does a parry block count as a hit in an epic dodge scenario?

Epic Dodge works before Parry, so: nope.

Parry had some iffy bug to it. Was it fixed by 1.69?

I never played about with it a lot since Parry works last, as in: after AC, Epic Dodge and concealment, and the incoming blows need to pass them for a Riposte to be made. In effect you want to be hit.

Which kinda means you need to be unarmoured and unconcealed to get your Ripostes in, and that's a fundamentally stupid way to fight, given how disobedient the special combat modes are.

As far as I know, it still doesn't block more than blow per flurry, so you still need AC/Epic Dodge/concealment to avoid being splatted, but if you have them then a lot of attacks miss, which means no Riposte.

It's an unfortunate logical trap, but since Parry is a skill, it'd be ferociously brokenstrong if it was actually any use.

so I made a bad choice taking parry with my epic dodging rapier dev critter?

The two uses of it I've found are that it stays on during Taunts, and you can stand with it on indefinitely, thus making flatfoot less of and issue.

ILoveIceCream wrote:

so I made a bad choice taking parry with my epic dodging rapier dev critter?

You made a bad choice taking parry period.

There's one instance where Parry's actually really inice to have... As Ruce knows.

I think he's still going to kill me for it.

WonWon wrote:

There's one instance where Parry's actually really inice to have... As Ruce knows. :D

I think he's still going to kill me for it.

Do tell! Don't keep it to yourself

No thanks. I'll keep my cards close to my chest

I wish parry worked as decently ... I was going to create a character based entirely on the concept of duelling who would just sit in parry.

hijacking my own thread here for a minute, does a successful fort save just negate the dev crit or do you take some type of damage still?

You take full critical damage still.

Galenson wrote:

Parry had some iffy bug to it. Was it fixed by 1.69?

Geh, lost my own topic I made on asking about Parry a long while ago.

But it's something, if I remember that...

Say you have 3 attacks per-round. Activate Parry.
You use attack 1 to parry. Attack 2 is nulled and does nothing. Attack 3 is a parry.
Something buggy like that- you don't get all your attacks to trade for a parry. So a character making up to 4 attacks still only gets 2 parry and 2 unused save to be hit freely.

If I remember it correctly.

It's too bad that there isn't the ability to roll a reflex save on it then, still brutal to get hit by but not always deadly.

Most dedicatted Devcrit builds have high threat low mulitplier weapons.

So you get crit a whole lot for 80-100, plus a death save.

I've been debating rolling up a RP version of my very old BoW charcter, Sir Allurnothen Frankencrit, the Sycthe weilding Paladin/Champion of Chauntea/Weapon Master.

Not sure if it can work with a level 30 cap though.

That guy got critical Smite evils for thousands of damage. Totally pointless overkill but -really- funny when it happened.

Pure damage or toothpick critting... there's something all meleers have to think about.

It would be great if the idea of "Only 100+ crits can dev", but t can't.
I'm just wondering, can custom feats be made for NWN? That way, simply ban dev-crit and if they want it take the custom feat with the same requirements?

So, then, you can be the person to handle the rebuilds of *every strength focused character on th server*.

You would let me do that?

My point is approximately Roller Coaster Height and you're 2 inches too small ffor the ride.

But it is possible then? Just not considered worth the effort because of rebuilding?

Yes, custom feats are "possible" in 1.69.

"Viable", is a completely different story. You're looking at needing to reinvent the wheel, but *rounder*.

Well, a round one is better than a square one. I just thought it would be a good idea - I take it there's no chance of it running a script that sees if you have dev-crit on clicking the mirror, booting you and replacing it with this feat?
I'm not a scripter so I have no idea what's required, so if I say something stupid, be gentle

TormakSaber wrote:

So, then, you can be the person to handle the rebuilds of *every strength focused character on the server*.

Got no trouble nerfing mage without worry though. SNAP! Oooh ya, I went there. :lol:

But seriously, how flexible is Dev crit in terms of being able to tweak it?

Not. At all.

Mage vs Dev Crit is not a fair comparison. Not. At all.

Dev crit vs mage requires chewing through GS, bigbies, time stop, horrid wilting, wails, fingers of death...

it's obvious who wins most of the time.

You forgot "Mestil's, easily achieveable very high AC, critical hit immunity in some cases, and easily reachable fort saves to make the only way to Dev a 20-20-1 of Hit-Confirm-Fail".

There's just too much to list.

50% concealment (imp invis and displacement), negative energy bursts, all those summons, mords stripping your buffs, any spell that hinders movement, fingers of death, delayed fireball bombs, damage reduction...

Not to mention multiclassing. Epic traps anyone?

I'd rather fight a dev critter than a mage, as my rogues.....excluding my monk who practices the infamous Iron Golemn Fighting style..I fight both and pwn

I'd rather want to take on someone with dev crit, terrifying rage AND epic dodge then a mage with my cleric.

So would I actually... The point is stop babying the fighters, we all know they like making new more epic builds anyway.

EDIT: REPLY TO BELOW: No comparison was made, I just meant to say that if they don't mind mages whining about minor nerfs then they shouldn't mind warriors complaining.

Yurell wrote:

Well, a round one is better than a square one. I just thought it would be a good idea - I take it there's no chance of it running a script that sees if you have dev-crit on clicking the mirror, booting you and replacing it with this feat?
I'm not a scripter so I have no idea what's required, so if I say something stupid, be gentle

Can I ask that again?
Just for context 'this' feat was referring to a custom feat that emulated the effects of dev-crit on 100+ damage.

Once more, scripters be gentle.

The comparison of dev-crit vs mage is, IMO, a bad one. A mage with spellbook set to PvP is going to tear the dev-critter to sheds, as will a sorceror.

It's a fundamentally different thing. You replace a passive feat with one that must be activated. It's like changing Tumble into a widget that you must use every round in a fight.

Not very useful, I'd say?

So you can't have custom passive feats?

I was thinking that on critical, it would check damage, if this is more than 100 (or whatever value was chosen) it would make the target take a fort save or die, just like dev crit.
If it is less than said value, it wouldn't do anything more.

Nopes. The blank feats are afaik all active. You can't detect if a hit is a crit anyway, and you can't detect the values either.

Alright ,then it can't be done.
I just thought it could since Tormak's immediate reply was asking if I'd be willing to do the rebuilds (to which I acquiesced).

The Great Equalizer wrote:

So would I actually... The point is stop babying the fighters, we all know they like making new more epic builds anyway.

EDIT: REPLY TO BELOW: No comparison was made, I just meant to say that if they don't mind mages whining about minor nerfs then they shouldn't mind warriors complaining.

... Babying the fighters?

Please... stop making commentary on things you don't know about.

Tell you the truth my sder would prefer to take a mage.. what are they gonna do..summon a dragon? tht worked fantastic last time it happened.. "Oh you fell out of Gs" breach..kd.. dead

but then again.. I know how to nuke most mages through pure pvp expierence, Marinah has yet to fallto one one on one.. she did fall to three.. only because she chomped through two and the third got a lucky bigby

But whats this diiscussion about? Dev crit? it won't go away..deal with and boost that fort save

WonWon wrote:

There's one instance where Parry's actually really inice to have... As Ruce knows.

I think he's still going to kill me for it.

Uh, my guess is extremely Huge HP, damage reduction with descent damages, low AC, then use Parry?

TormakSaber wrote:

... Babying the fighters?

Please... stop making commentary on things you don't know about.

Never! That would leave me with nothing to comment on. Now lighten the hell up.

Dev Crit VS Epic Dodge

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