AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Okay If a palemaster RP's to have his Bone arm restored via pallies, or surgery or w/e... Are there any problems that could go wrong?

I would think the accompanying Smite Evil would be a problem.

Make sure your surgeon makes a save or is immune vs. paralysis.

I'd ask why you'e doing it.

Last edited by Torzeng on Wed, Apr 01 2009, 6:10 AM, edited 2 times in total.

Besides the motivation for Tormak's sake; get some RP in-game for Tormak's sake and any other DM who may be able to play witness for you.

And for the smite evil, it's finding a faithful who'll listen long enough to hear-out a convertee xD

Problems going wrong... Well, skill of the one trying to heal counts too.

An imperfect close could have the complication of ganegreen in effect; dead or decayed flesh embedded with the restored living.
A creative idea there said above; a risk of getting zapped by the arm.
Magic made it right? Might need to try and either undo it or get a stronger spell to break it. - Before healing can even be possible.
If your diety likes palemasters staying palemaster... Fallen Palemaster! :O
Pain. I see lots of pain. You're talking about regrowing natural ligament and epidermal layers in a shorter window of time. Depends who's the healer though; some heal less painfully and some more

Say the arm restoration works, it'll still likely be weak. Muscle that hasn't been used or trained. Temporary loss of small-motor skill in the fingers and at the wrist as the muscles need retrained. [I'm assuming the bone-arm is magically functional.] Essentially you'd need muscle therapy.
Start the healing and loose concentration? Oooh, bloodloss! Scar tissue!
It flops and your last resort is amputation. Thus spiraling into a need of RP to regrow a lost limb. [And I'd tie this back to whatever magic makes the arm stay a bone arm- healing it back would restore just the bone as long as that enchantment is still in effect.]

Hmmm... plenty that can go wrong I think. Or at least make it difficult.

I submit that this procedure be ruled impossible lore-wise, on the grounds melee Palemasters would flock to have it done so they'd find it easier to be an inexplicably tough bloke who, despite doing around a third of wimpy wiry 10-STR Frank's nastier crits, can cleave dragons heads off in one shot when he can't.

At the minute you can ICly challenge them to a 'having two bare arms' competition and laugh as they lose by forfeit and can ICly conclude that they've been a mucky undead molester to get that leathery.

Pretty easy explanation, too: the organs, veins and other such tissue that supplied life to that arm, already atrophied when the graft was made at PM6, shut down upon gaining Deathless Mastery. To revive them would mean no more critlessness.

Uberuce wrote:

I submit that this procedure be ruled impossible lore-wise, on the grounds melee Palemasters would flock to have it done so they'd find it easier to be an inexplicably tough bloke who, despite doing around a third of wimpy wiry 10-STR Frank's nastier crits, can cleave dragons heads off in one shot when he can't.

At the minute you can ICly challenge them to a 'having two bare arms' competition and laugh as they lose by forfeit and can ICly conclude that they've been a mucky undead molester to get that leathery.

Pretty easy explanation, too: the organs, veins and other such tissue that supplied life to that arm, already atrophied when the graft was made at PM6, shut down upon gaining Deathless Mastery. To revive them would mean no more critlessness.

I believe their notion from in-game chatter is to -loose- the PM levels altogether.
No more bone arm or retaining of special skills it had.

Other option: amputate the arm. I thought it could be leto'd.

I think what he's saying is, if you want to be immune to crits, as only undead and PMs are, you need to pay the piper. The piper in this case, is a ghastly bony arm that screams PM from 200 yards away.

If you do the crime, do the time, so to speak.

This was done once for Shanna Balmour. She went to the Salandrans and had her bone arm removed.

She lost all her PM levels when this happened.

Mind - just because this happened once before, doesn't mean you'll be approved now.

Regards,

If you just want a disguise, there is at least one person with a flesh-colored prosthetic over his bone arm. (It's obviously fake under close inspection, but from a distance it's passable.)

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

This was done once for Shanna Balmour. She went to the Salandrans and had her bone arm removed.

She lost all her PM levels when this happened.

Mind - just because this happened once before, doesn't mean you'll be approved now.

Regards,

Again, this is the idea I believe of the original post- PM levels will be lost in this endeavor.

Interesting too that in the 3.0 edition, a Palemaster could also get a flesh golem-style arm - one that looked like a real arm, but wasn't.

Magnum Opera wrote:

Make sure your surgeon makes a save or is immune vs. paralysis.

The paralysis is a on command ability, and is not always "on".

The PM must choose to use the paralysis, or any of the other touch attacks consciously.

Regards,

Torzeng wrote:

I believe their notion from in-game chatter is to -loose- the PM levels altogether.
No more bone arm or retaining of special skills it had.

Ahhhh. Well, that's easy: hack the bone off, start their ticker back up by tossing them in the same bed as two Shifters who are cybering in blue wyrmling form, them cast Regeneration on the arm.

Then you need to get them to rehabilitate the freshly grown arm. Which you do by tying up the other one and not letting them see their girlfriend or boyfriend for a month.

Uberuce wrote:

Ahhhh. Well, that's easy: hack the bone off, start their ticker back up by tossing them in the same bed as two Shifters who are cybering in blue wyrmling form, them cast Regeneration on the arm.

Then you need to get them to rehabilitate the freshly grown arm. Which you do by tying up the other one and not letting them see their girlfriend or boyfriend for a month.

ROFLOL.

Shifter's 'at it' is wrong on more levels then I can think of. Imagine the mess if one got too excited and turned into a manticore. You though the clap was painful...

Bestiality isn't a crime when you're a Shifter.

Nor is necrophilia.

Y'all got some issues.

Ya'll?

*snicker*

Regards,

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Ya'll?

No, you're doing it wrong. It's pronounced, "Y'all".

Who lives in Texas?

Mwwwaahhhh.

Regards,

Sokar Rostau wrote:

Bestiality isn't a crime when you're a Shifter.

Its only a crime anyways if the animal is still alive...

Thanks internet for that one!

Deep in the heart o' Texas...

I thought New Zealand was strange

Sokar Rostau wrote:

I would think the accompanying Smite Evil would be a problem.

Not all PM's are evil, they can be any non-good alignment.

Ruce, is why I read the forums.

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Who lives in Texas?

Mwwwaahhhh.

Regards,

seriously james, you da man and all, but the texans got you beat on this

Could y'all stay off of the sick topics and on topic? I think think this thread still has potential in it.

krytellan wrote:

I think what he's saying is, if you want to be immune to crits, as only undead and PMs are, you need to pay the piper. The piper in this case, is a ghastly bony arm that screams PM from 200 yards away.

If you do the crime, do the time, so to speak.

i agree with this

Could I ask the staff to put their heads together and confirm in in black and white what the house rule is on this?

There's two issues to clarify:

1) Whether a character knows that his/her crits and Sneaks aren't landing.

2) Whether there's any route but Palemastery to unshifted critlessness.

I'll submit my Frankilicious as an example: his average mundane hit is ~20 in his PvP gear, ~48 on Sneaks, ~80 on crits and critSneak is ~108. At the minute, I play it on the assumption that he can really tell when something's immune to crits, and that means he knows the fella's a Pale Master.

My personal idea:

1: Yes, you can tell.
2: Not on Amia, 99.9% of the time.

Urk. Should have been a third

3) Do those routes require DM approval?

Well, I guess that would be included in the Big Official answer to 2. I'll not bother editing.

Wow...

Well,

Frey just cleared up the paralysis question I had.

Quote:

Besides the motivation for Tormak's sake; get some RP in-game for Tormak's sake and any other DM who may be able to play witness for you.

And Idk, I was planning to do the RP on the fourms via PC stories since free DM's are rare and salandrans are hard to find with time Zone stuff, But it can be done IG if needed. ^^ i figured I'd make this first though so I had some facts straight :/
A heal DC may be important for the healer, Mabye even a spellcraft if I wuldnt be able to dispell antihealing stuff myself (Having crated it).
Pain? I know there will be some, but it just reminds me of someone claiming to be able to True Rez someone from a thumb to fight with them. I'm expecting for it to be weak, My char is naturally weak and it just kinda add to that naturall aura. A Concentration DC? Wow theres gonna be a lot of drama. I prefer to avoid having one limb, I mean I can lose it as long as I get it back. ^^

Yeah, its mostly a big plot to RP a rebuild from a PM to a pure wizzy (What sucks is u lose all your spells though >.<) I'd have no more critlessness, unnatural aura, death blasts, or that funky undead scent.

Now to the off topic concerns... Wyrmling shifter cybering scares me... alot, and

Quote:

Which you do by tying up the other one and not letting them see their girlfriend or boyfriend for a month.

Heh, Irony...
Shifter Necrophelia/Beastiality... *Shakes his head* Really?

Quote:

Who lives in Texas?

x20 I does! (Where everyone thinks we ride horses to school >.<) Houston ftw! ^^

I'll speak from a Salandran point of view here.

We can -attempt- to do almost anything for you but we find the " magic will fix it like a zyrtec" concept an epic fail. If you want to try something, there's always risks involved. Recently a player's character had tuberculosis and wanted complex surgery, I said to them ICly that there was a good chance the character would die and on an OOC level that if it goes well the character's out of commision for a while and if it doesn't are they prepared for permadeath.

Surgery is a very risky practice and it doesn't matter how good a person is at it, there's always going to be a chance for mistakes. Please take that into consideration when you wish to RP that stuff for your characters.

On regards to the PM arms, yes it's possible. I've done it twice before (once for Shanna Balmor. Reinard was a little different) but it requires -extensive- (aka months of) RP though. Contact me (Jack Galenson) ingame and make sure you have a DM with you and we'll discuss your options upon an IC level. From there though, it's the DM's decision.

I'll outline some of the proceedure I went through for the last PM arm I removed to give you the general picture:

Stage one: Finding a way to safely channel the negative energies from the arm away (highly dangerous for both the operator and the patient)
Stage two: If the patient survived, an attempt to re-structure the arm from the bone up (extremely dangerous, if one muscle is attached incorrectly or one vein incorrectly positioned it's death for patient)
Stage three: If the patient still lives, further work to try and connect the arm back into the main systems of the body again (extremely high chance that the body will reject the foreign organisms which once again can involve death for the patient)

Lastly... if the patient survives the proceedure, they need to literally teach themselves how to -use- the arm again and go through months, if not years (game time) of rehabilitation to get the strength in the muscles, to get flexibility, to regain bone density, to get the fine motor skills in the hands and fingers etc.

It's not an easy proceedure to do.

Reinard's was a bit different: He ended up opting for a gauntlet that suppressed the obscene abmounts of negative energy in his left arm (rendering his arm attacks unnusable while wearing it) and leaving a trace amount to allow the arm to remain useable.

I hear a lot about "means death for the patient", which is kinda funny considering there is no permadeath unless you bring it on yourself. I can't believe people who went through this procedure would be alright with their characters dying over it, though. So that leaves us with "a harmless procedure".

*cough*

Those are IC things is my guess.

"There is a chance you may die, it is risky, are you willing to take the chance." is far better then, "Hey, you might die, but even if that is the case can we just get you back to life with a prayer or a common scroll."

Even if there is no real danger does it give the feeling of it being dangerous.

xordae wrote:

I hear a lot about "means death for the patient", which is kinda funny considering there is no permadeath unless you bring it on yourself. I can't believe people who went through this procedure would be alright with their characters dying over it, though. So that leaves us with "a harmless procedure".

*cough*

Imo in things like this, if you choose for the chance of death you should take it as permadeath.

Or resurrection with severe drawbacks.

Ugh... that "Its ok, I have Jesus standing next to me so I can be instantly healed and resurected" attitude that's a really big turn off for Salandran RP. If you want a miracle treatment you can look elsewhere.

This is sounding like a DC rebuild with RP to me.

As for Sally RP ... I avoid magic wherever possible, and when I do us it, it hurts. Your nerves are regrowing to muscle that was torn apart = painful.
If your bone is broken and not set properly, healing repairs the break but doesn't return it to the right shape, and unless it's a bad break once it is set it doesn't really need magic to heal it.

Ame's focus is the cure of undead diseases, which means she occasionally needs to use positive energy, but she also uses holy water and mundane plants like baptisia.

Yurell wrote:

This is sounding like a DC rebuild with RP to me.

As for Sally RP ... I avoid magic wherever possible, and when I do us it, it hurts. Your nerves are regrowing to muscle that was torn apart = painful.
If your bone is broken and not set properly, healing repairs the break but doesn't return it to the right shape, and unless it's a bad break once it is set it doesn't really need magic to heal it.

Ame's focus is the cure of undead diseases, which means she occasionally needs to use positive energy, but she also uses holy water and mundane plants like baptisia.

This. When it comes to Sally RP, I like taking after Yurell's example of pain and time required to recover.

My favorite yet is their design of how Remove Disease makes you feel feverish to burning hot depending how dieseased you are. Obviously the one being healed has to agree to the terms as well. But adding some pain and discomfort before the healing mends all really gives a flesh and blood to 'reality' of the PC's perception.
Although, not everyone's healing hurts necissarily. I just like to go with this as well. Keeps it interesting and allowes some more room for the wounded to maybe, juuuust maybe, learn "Might wanna be more careful."

And as for Risk of Death- this really keys in for players who RP up that Death has meaning. Not all of us do.

My PCs can die and be revived very fast as if nothing happened but they'll still have some emotional response to the fact they were dead for even three minutes. Because I like that style of RP. When you see Risk of Death, you're being given something to work with if you want to or something to shrug off if you want to.

if ur talking about -surgeries-, you have clerics... which they are extensively powerful and a simple spell can cure the world.
method 1
1. chop arm off
2 cast monsterous regeneration so the patient grows back a natural arm

---
method 2
kill the patient, chop arm off and cast true res on him/her.

i think we forget that clerics are the emissaries for the Gods.

sure, things are different on amia and that is why i think you can go on with either option 1 or option 2 without a hitch.

my character has 30+ raise dead scrolls. magic is abundant, problem solved.

i see people RPing blind people, which in a world where you raise dead for 1.8k, and greater restoration is a free spell, blindness is not a feasible rp technique when any cleric buffs for absolutely no reason whatsoever

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/remove ... afness.htm

remove blindness is lvl 3

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueResurrection.htm

this is a lvl 9 spell, which any lvl 30 is godly enough to cast it a dozen times over a high preist

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/regenerate.htm

this spell eliminates all amputee people, its lvl 7 which means ur hook hand or peg leg doesn't have to exist when u have clerics running about healing all in their path. (i still manage to see people cast -heal- on any injured person as if they don't care for the RP behind the spell, but they prefer to see their hit points at -uninjured- and for the person not to bleed and -dirty- the ground)

dunno about u, but i believe a lvl 30 can cure a lvl 9 (3 wiz, 6 PM - lvl which u get arm) of his undead graft. i guess it would determine on how powerful of a palemaster ur character is for a cure (this could possibly represent a DC)

would ur bone arm removal be a simple -procedure-? imo, absolutely.

its up to DMs though if they want to specifically have an RP thing for ur character.

oh, and if DMs allow method 2 - ur character should lose undead properties.

1: Some people like to silve things more creatively than "I cast Heal.". This is to be encourages.

2: Any 'plan' that fixes on "Ill just kill you and raise you" is stupid. Offense intended!

3: Please... type... proper English... please?

TormakSaber wrote:

1: Some people like to silve things more creatively than "I cast Heal.". This is to be encourages.

2: Any 'plan' that fixes on "Ill just kill you and raise you" is stupid. Offense intended!

3: Please... type... proper English... please?

1. I actually prefer to RP too, its an RP server after all

2. I read the true raise thing and killing the undead and raising them is the actual -procedure-, unless its different here.

3. Feisty.

tee hee

I don't mean any offence, but I believe Tormak has a point with number 3. While typos can be forgiven (otherwise I'd have died long ago), it doesn't take long to add capital letters at the beginning of a sentence or to correctly spell words like 'you' and 'your'.

Especially considering you are typing so much, the amount of extra time taken would be negligible.

Again, no offence.

Magic does not fix everything. Throwing a Heal spell on someone could end up gimping them worse than natural healing, as the bones and muscles wouldn't have time to set right. Heal and Greater Restoration and Resurrection do not equal perfect physical condition.

Some people actually like to play characters with physical flaws, such as missing eyes, hobbled legs, and the like. If you slap a Fix-All label on clerics, then everything will just be the same and completely healthy and boring.

Aging and adventuring also take their toll. A person running around mountains with hundreds of pounds of gear, while possibly being fit, will also probably accrue a number of knee and/or back problems. Wearing a big metal helmet on your skull all the time probably won't do wonders for your neck either. These are just simple things that can build up over time, and no amount of magical healing can completely correct it.

The Cobbit wrote:

Magic does not fix everything. Throwing a Heal spell on someone could end up gimping them worse than natural healing, as the bones and muscles wouldn't have time to set right. Heal and Greater Restoration and Resurrection do not equal perfect physical condition.

Some people actually like to play characters with physical flaws, such as missing eyes, hobbled legs, and the like. If you slap a Fix-All label on clerics, then everything will just be the same and completely healthy and boring.

Aging and adventuring also take their toll. A person running around mountains with hundreds of pounds of gear, while possibly being fit, will also probably accrue a number of knee and/or back problems. Wearing a big metal helmet on your skull all the time probably won't do wonders for your neck either. These are just simple things that can build up over time, and no amount of magical healing can completely correct it.

Well, all of it can technically be fixed by magic but tat is really boring, and some of it requires PnP spells.

I prefer to think of my healing spells as doing exactly what they're told. Someone has a broken arm, I cast Heal and Heal will look for the fastest way to "unbreak arm". It doesn't care if the arm is set or not. It doesn't care that there's a jagged piece of metal that will be healed into there, it just does the job that's required.

And as I said before, when Amenia uses magic to heal, it hurts - why? Because it's a nice IC justification to not use it. In PnP magic will fix everything, but in PnP there aren't hundreds of level 30 characters running around.

To be fair the spells imply no negative side-effects after use. Anyone calling that is House Ruling which is nessecary for an RP server.

People love to jump on the rules about this stuff but you need to remember they didn't write this for an in-depth RP server. Saying Heal/Greater Restoration fixes everything is fine for a Friday Night Hack and Slash with your buddies, but it is common courtesy to respect the RPers by not showing up and being like "LUlz immah castin' mah HEALZZZ. J0o Gud now ;p " when they are trying to set a bone the old fashioned way or letting an amputated limb stay amputated. I'm sure not many people do this but don't try to negate others RP with the level 30 cleric card!

It is a two way street though, I'd not like people telling me that I ~couldn't~ use regeneration to fix a missing limb if I didn't want to radically change my character, either.

The Cobbit wrote:

Aging and adventuring also take their toll. A person running around mountains with hundreds of pounds of gear, while possibly being fit, will also probably accrue a number of knee and/or back problems. Wearing a big metal helmet on your skull all the time probably won't do wonders for your neck either. These are just simple things that can build up over time, and no amount of magical healing can completely correct it.

As Cohen the barbarian once put it:

What can a warrior hope for when he grows old? Soft toilet paper, good pain soothing cream for the muscles, and lots of soup.

The same for healing RP could be said about Torture RP by the way.
"Hey I cast greater harm, that will make you squirm and writhe and what not."
Yes, it could be this way, but it is no fun, and so people RP out the torturing instead. So far I haven't seen anyone even thinking about doing such an easy way out. Makes me wonder why that is.

Erm... Whats a "Zyrtec"? Never mind, Long term rehabilitation for minor problems that -will- go wrong during the Surgery/Restoration is a definite combined with the Rehab needed just to teach my brain how to use it again. You cant have so many things to fear without having at least one go wrong. And Yes, permadeath is an option, (Thats right weston, Zee might be going biebie) and so are minor physical changes like not being able to lift anything that's not light in that hand (Aww no more duel wield) or maybe some other problems due to the negative energy, but I like keeping both of my arms intact if possible. *Nodnod* My Char ICly is willing to die for it, so why not RP it and go for it, If he dies, he died for a particular purpose. ^^

Like I was saying before you got into the overpoweredness of PnP Clerics, I was looking for more of a compiled list of major problems and the DC's that would overcome those problems, or send me into a downward spiral of death. (Oh, and DM permission and stuff too, of course ^^) And have the Salandrans been officially relocated back to the temple yet?

OH! Now I remember what a Zyrtec is!

PM=>Wizzy?

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