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Yurell wrote:

I think those ones are heading a tad too off topic ...

As far as being bad guys goes, it is rather obvious you're going to be caught when you compare the size of your sacks of baby heads in the middle of the city. Come to Ultrinnan - we don't need that kind of show because everyone knows that everyone else is evil.

"Man, have yous seen that guy in the black robe?"
"What guy?"
"The one with that big sack of heads"
"Xes, he like, totally tries to hard".
"Totally".
*communal dismissive sniff*

Just wanted to add that:

1. Yes the numbers I was using were based on surface evil, when the underdark is factored in it adds more to the percentage.

2. The numbers are estimates, they change daily based on who is playing what character, and how many new characters or players are joining Amia.(and what they decide to play)

3. ...and yes it is also a factor when neutral aligned people do evil acts occasionally and are smited ectectect.

So yes the number goes up, add the other variables and it does increase depending on many things, raids ,events, even pure randomization.

...it's still not a passing grade however ^^

More evil Npc/faction/city's/events plz

The last three done that I can think of were more evil based, well one was alittle grey, but here they are.

The Nes'ek event.
The Cordor under attack by Talosians event
The destruction of the Eternal Order's temple. (this one has a grey area in it, which is fine, it adds mystery when one is unsure of the cause.)

...the general trend of events seems to be working so far, I hope the number of events will increase that involve 'x' evil breaking 'x' good thing and have the good aligned people fix 'x' thing (eventually, if they work at it)

That's the general fantasy format, and needed for 'anyone' to save the day and be a hero....something has to be 'saved' and it's impossible to 'save' something if it is not in danger in the first place.

That being said, an increase in grey would also be nice, grey or evil, because it still tips the balance in the direction it needs to go, allowing more opportunity for evil to break what they can means, allowing more people of the good alignment to 'save the day'

Phearnun wrote:

What was that rebel leader called? Ah yes, Captain Kirk. He could beat up Darth Vader easily, seeing he got that skinny yoda-like sidekick. That cling-on Chewbaca is a lame arse aswell, though he could most likely kick the emperors ass. [/Star wars expert rant]

Yes, what Yurell said, meaning what I said. Most evil characters just make it too easy for angry pitchfork wielding lynch mobs (bored paladins) to start chasing them. The only reason evil characters do that in Cordor is because they dont perma-die (or any real consequence even) when caught by the before mentioned mob. Its also why every goodie-two shoe wants to die a heroic death to come back a minute later to hear people thank him for his sacrafice.

My evil characters don't hang out in Cordor bragging. But evil factions often do go there to recruit newbies...that's probably why at least...

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

. . . . .

I'm not even going to dignify this post with a proper thought out response.

would you rather I said the most evil person is satan, hitler, george bush? dr. robotnik?? breathing in and out of a bag is not a prerequisit of being evil, he did alright with the death star but IMHO darth vader is balls. he also cowers before the emporor and is therefore alot weaker minded than an evil person should be, sauron would eat him alive, any evil character from dbz would eat his lightsabre and then eat him alive, there are alot better examples of evil than vader imo.

name one evil character/real person/film bad guy that even compares with seth and maybe I will change my mind, personally the whole story, the battles, all does it for me, and I think that thats valid enough to allow me to post that in a topic about evil and good...or is FF seen as too unrealistic or something?? [rant over]

I also once saw a goblin character go out into the forest to kill and collect goblin heads, because he thought he was not a goblin, now what the heck alignment would that make you?? lol

I agree that appearances can be deceiving, you could see a person in black robes, evil looking helm, turns out they are spellcasters aligned good, or maybe an evil knight with a shiny sword and sparkly armour, instantly cleaving your head off when you ask about their god kelemvor, you can't judge if a player is *alignment* by clothing usually, plus some clothes may be new and equiped for stats giving a false appearence. you gotta talk to find out their real goals, aims and morals if any.

Kirk might be able to take on vader, spokk would pwn him

Piccard FTW

Do I need to pull out my Empire vs Federation argument.

One Super Star Destroyer > United Federation of Planets.

Palpatine single handedly conquered the galaxy through far-sighted political confrontations and beat Yoda in a lightsabre fight.
Picard asked things to stop shooting at his ship.

And Kirk vs Darth Vader? What the hell is h going to do? Vader stabs him with light sabre. We see that he can deflect blaster bolts, so presumably he can do the same with phaser.

Anyway, nerd-rant aside.

Pft, everyone knows William Shatner can make people's heads explode on command with overly emotional acting and paused sentences...

kirk: more power to the shields

scotty: I canne do it captain, she 'asen't got the poower!!
---
john "luke ;P" piccard: worf fire photon torpedos, maximum spread straight into that huge ass hole

worf: aye captain
--
vader: *breaths in and out...*
--
shattner != god, and i'd love to see the death star go warp 9

imo federation would mess up vader just as well as the rebels did, it was all down to having a 50ft across hole in the side of the death star though which was **** stupid thing to do in building process.

all evil has its weaknesses

tao_myst wrote:

kirk: more power to the shields

scotty: I canne do it captain, she 'asen't got the poower!!
---
john "luke ;P" piccard: worf fire photon torpedos, maximum spread straight into that huge ass hole

worf: aye captain
--
vader: *breaths in and out...*
--
shattner != god, and i'd love to see the death star go warp 9 :P

imo federation would mess up vader just as well as the rebels did, it was all down to having a 50ft across hole in the side of the death star though which was **** stupid thing to do in building process.

all evil has its weaknesses

Federation beat the Empire. Right.
Read this site, it's written by an engineer and he knows what he is talking about (I calculated the energy required to blow up Alderan myself and it came to the same value).
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... nutes.html

It's Star Wars vs Star Trek summary .. there is more detailed analysis later in the site.

Suffice to saw Empire owns Federation.

I don't want to debate star wars vs star trek damn it! also those numbers are ridiculosly out of proportion and scientifically unreachable, at least trek made the effort to be slightly realistic. wars is in DBZ world with those numbers.

tao_myst wrote:

I don't want to debate star wars vs star trek damn it! also those numbers are ridiculosly out of proportion and scientifically unreachable, at least trek made the effort to be slightly realistic. wars is in DBZ world with those numbers.

So? The argument is Federation vs Empire. The Empire may be ridiculously overpowered, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't win. It's like asking whether a bunch of level 10 character can kill hundreds of level 60's. It's not a 'fair' fight, but that doesn't mean the latter wouldn't win.

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Last edited by tao_myst on Sat, Apr 04 2009, 22:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.

k, what about Q, they could click their fingers and vader would be removed from spacetime, and a lv anything could beat an epic if say they were scared of spiders or dragons, numbers dont make you immune to being defeated, 100 times matter anti matter explosions or not.

post something relevant to evil and good then and stop arguing that vader is immortal, its still within the topic to discuss good and evil characters, what about spiderman and batman, they are kinda good but vigilante, instead of either

tao_myst wrote:

k, what about Q, they could click their fingers and vader would be removed from spacetime, and a lv anything could beat an epic if say they were scared of spiders or dragons, numbers dont make you immune to being defeated, 100 times matter anti matter explosions or not.

That wouldn't be Federation vs Empire, would it? I have no doubt Q could wipe out the entire Empire ... but why would he? All he's ever expressed is the wish to see humanity survive, not caring about what political jurisdiction it's under.

Enough with the Star Trek vs Star Wars bullshit.

Either take that discussion into the OT, or stop posting in this topic.

Fair enough, I'll stop posting about it.

Sorry.

For those people that are telling the "evil" characters to be less obvious or harder to catch or stop, you are getting it all wrong.

Most of us are logical human beings that can see into the future and guess what will happen, especially in a fantasy world with general rules and expectations.

I probably could play a perfect evil character that does evil things behind the scenes and all that jazz but, tbh, that is just boring. It normally involves a lot of PvP, Death screen, one on one rp, and being efficient over fashionable.

It is my own style to get the most people I can in on my RP, I love drawing a crowd and typing up fancy stories. I like talking myself OUT of a situation more than I like just strolling in and winning right off the bat. Doing evil this way makes the OOC conflicts fall to near zero. The only problem is I can't expect to "win" much, if that is even something that can happen during RP.

I remember one character mentioning IC that they would hire me in a second if I wasn't so obvious or well known as a criminal. It put me off for a second but then I remembered the sheer fun I have when surrounded by 3 guards and trying to convince them that the paladin was lying about me trying to sell the "illegal" goods to him.

I guess I derive my pleasure from seeing how far deep in trouble I can get and still get out. I mentioned above some reasons why I skimp out on the effecient evil character. The problem is, an effecient evil person doesn't type much. In fact, if you are stopping to type up something cool while Joe Pally is smiting you, you're in trouble. Most evil characters wouldn't even say hello to a traveling group and just kill them right there and loot their bodies. This can't happen on Amia so why try to make it happen or pretend it should happen?

This is a major reason I am for a balance between Good and Evil. I don't want the good guys to win all the time but I don't want the evil people to get the edge. I don't mind guards pulling double shifts in South Cordor but I don't like them complaining that known criminal nests aren't getting closed down. I mean, if they can stroll around and beat up on the evil, why can't evil stroll around and perma kill them in their sleep?

This can't and shouldn't happen. Evil on Amia is a very interesting beast. It is something that lives in a world where nothing dies and relationships are everything.

Perhaps I have it all wrong but I just find the super secret evil guys boring and love the character I play. I find it fits in much better to the Amia atmosphere than the more serious evil characters.

Perhaps the Black Flag is the quintessential representation of Amian evil. They do evil things but with limits. There is a balance. That is how things need to work, there has to be a balance.

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I agree with Phantom and Phearnun, i think both the things your suggesting need to happen to improve the dynamics between good and evil.

I agree with Phearnun that there is a time and place for evil characters to operate, and that evil players (like me) have a resposibility to keep our dispicable acts seperate from lawful/good aligned areas like East Cordor, IF we want to be taken seriously at all, which I think is what this thread is about. Whether were smart bad guys or dumb bad guys, we have to present ourselves as believable bad guys if were going to be treated with any respect and maturity by other players.

I think the 'goodies' have a responisibility too however, and this isnt directed at any player/s in particular, but I think its important that people are aware of it. Taking every PC villain who does complete the above criteria seriously, and not rolling their eyes whenever they hear about something bad happening is reeeeally appreciated by the evil players. I'm speaking from personal experience here. Just because any potential victims can be raised in Amia, it doesnt mean you have to downplay or ignore the fact that people may be in pain and as a HERO its your responsibility to stop that sort of thing happening...

...if your character doesnt care about stopping evil and foiling villains, then just let someone else's character who does go and deal with it, and dont show up with 50 buffs on, say/emote absolutely nothing, and kill all the "annoying" bad-guys before saying "shows over" and walking back to wherever it is your character stands all day and night. Its BORING!

And just because you know that after you kick that bad guy's ass your going to have to raise him as courtesy to his player and will likely hear about bad things he's doing in the future, it doesn't mean you have to treat the scene (even if youve played through it a MILLION times before) as blase and ho-hum and nothing-to-get-excited-about for EVERYONE involved. It REALLY (censored) me when people do that, because it sucks the drama out of the RP others have put energy into, and you come across as an OOC jerk who is just on the scene to end any RP with a big fat wail or dragon summon, and probably provoke tells or at least frustrated feelings as a result of it.

I'm sure there are people here who can relate to the point I'm making...

Vaylek wrote:

<snip>...and dont show up with 50 buffs on, say/emote absolutely nothing, and kill all the "annoying" bad-guys before saying "shows over" and walking back to wherever it is your character stands all day and night. Its BORING!

And just because you know that after you kick that bad guy's ass your going to have to raise him as courtesy to his player and will likely hear about bad things he's doing in the future, it doesn't mean you have to treat the scene (even if youve played through it a MILLION times before) as blase and ho-hum and nothing-to-get-excited-about for EVERYONE involved. It REALLY (censored) me when people do that, because it sucks the drama out of the RP others have put energy into, and you come across as an OOC jerk who is just on the scene to end any RP with a big fat wail or dragon summon, and probably provoke tells or at least frustrated feelings as a result of it.

I'm sure there are people here who can relate to the point I'm making...

Ohh my gosh, that exact scenario just happened to me recently *relates* Was minimal rp, dragon summon out, finished up the pvp, threw 'bad guy corpse' away like yesterdays newspaper and was back to doing whatever it is they were doing. Ignoring the people who were asking 'why' so and so had to be killed.

*sage nod*

This is a big one, just because you 'can' get away with minimal rp when killing evil characters, doesn't mean yea 'should'. Instead, try to make it fun for all involved, including the 'bad guy', they're people too, and are looking to "Roleplay" on this roleplay server, just like everyone else.

I'm sure there is communal 'yes, i relate' coming from anyone who has a 'bad guy' character. The degree to which that kind of behavior disheartens people is hard to communicate.

I mean 'shows over', it surmises the attitude perfectly; 'if I'm not in the RP you're not in the RP, without ME there is no RP...me, ME, MEEEEE....'. Now, back to Cordor standing around me, ME, MEEEE...

That was what I was trying to communicate earlier in the thread when I spoke about taking a breath to see what everyone has to say in an RP/plot line situation.

EDIT: In reply to the post above mine, why can people get away with minimal RP when attacking an evil guy? I reckon if the rules and dogmas of their gods (most people have one) were being watched then many of the Good guys would have Fallen further then the US economy by now.

Last edited by Pony on Tue, Nov 05 2019, 14:36 PM, edited 1 time in total.

*Hasn't read through everything in here but would like to say.* Do not forget the open evil that doesn't appear evil. I don't mean your behind the scenes guy I mean those like my character Kiran. He's devilkin he's treated with racism yet he goes out and helps the Commonwealth, he helps the downtrodden and those in need. Now why would he do that, i'll be the first to tell you in OOC he's Lawfull Evil. I think it's because I enjoy manipulating people, I provoked good people to do good things but it was for my own agenda and yes thats behind the scenes and I won't be tooting my horn about it. I want you to like him, to question what is evil when you deal with him. *Grins* Charming devils are fun ^.~

Social RP CAN and SHOULD happen outside of Cordor. In Ultrinnan, Tarkuul, South Cordor/Sactuary of Sin, Underport and Zanshibon.

The Dev's had spent hours making these places for us, why the heck would any evil PC -want- to go to Cordor for social RP?

If you want to argue the toss with the good guys, do it just before you sacrifice them or smite them. If you want to do it Joker style, tie up Batman and Robin and then issue your monologue to them whilst they are gagged. Then pull down their gag and let them spill their beans, before walking out and giving them a chance to escape from your goons.

In the case of the Ghaunadan faction, I have so far been blessed with none of the members hanging out in Cordor. I am personally glad for the Drow ban from Cordor, long may it live.

That Which Lurks, doesn't hang out in the open in Cordor pronouncing their evil deeds. Its members Lurk in dark places, pounce on unwary victims and sacrifice them. Their tendrils of finance and power feed into the surface lands via intermediatries. This type of evil is a mix of in your face and hidden evil. If its in your face, likely its going to kill you. If its hidden, likely whoever is acting against you is being financed from deep underground via a chain of intermediatry evils or neutral PCs out for a quick buck.

Unless the faction member is doing some kind of covert operation, I will personally sacrifice any member who spends time in Cordor, gloating over their dark deeds for all to hear. This evil faction is a good example of how you can do evil right. Its members spend time in evil based cities, using other evil factions or mercenaries to bring them a steady stream of sacrifices for their altars. Failing that, they'll just go out and do it themselves (the in your face part).

Unfortunately, many of our actions will clearly have to lead to PvP and then we're back to the problem of:

1. Lowbies complaining epics are picking on them (yes, we probably are, but consider that evil will not act unless it can get away with it).

2. Bored epics get a tell from a lowbie asking for help and come running, to amazingly, appear "at random" on the scene...

3. Some other form of strange behaviour appears (e.g., the other day I even saw a dark knight, open a portal go get resupplies and come back, during what may have been hostilities...)

Too often I see this kind of behaviour prevalent on the server. Part of the problem stems from people needing to 'win' all the time, rather than just running with the story and letting the story drive itself. Trouble is, the person who plays 100% by the rules, will likely lose because everyone else appears to be cheating in order to "win".

Pro-Tip: Bag of Holding + Heal Potions + 40 base fort = happy evil minion >.>; *is kidding*

Evil vs Good.

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