What's up with the blurry picture. Those top view maps hardly show much of anything and very good luck trying to get away with something that big.
My poor computer whinges and whines when I actually zoom out that far. Not even mentioning the fact that I dumped it in paint as a JPG rather than Photoshop. It's just a proposal for a location, that I may recycle, or never use again. It was just something I enjoyed doing, even on my crudbucket of a machine that hangs longer than a horse when I'm trying to modify more than one terrain tile at once.
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Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
And anything to the effect mention on forum is doomed to fail anyway because it's not like goodie players will just ignore reading this. Face it thanks to this it will be atleast three months or more before anything along these lines becomes possible to do again IC.
You don't have to worry that Ravenovf spilled the beans. We up in Kohlingen already know that at any point in time various people would like to rebuild Wyrmhold, and from time to time keep an eye on it. There coincidentially was a post about this in our private forum on April 5, which was a full day before Ravenovf's public message.
And really, any construction project that large is going to be heard about -- cities don't just spring up overnight.
That tileset is a bit iffy. I'd not use it for large areas.
I'll send you the module if you want it. It's currently placeable/door/NPC free. That said, I would like to test/experiment with it. Up for it? Can we stress test it at various levels of population? Pleassse?
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Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
Wyrmhold is hallowed ground now. Rebuilding it in place seems like a bad idea tactically.
As soon as you start the concept of raising up some destroyed monolith of evil publicly, it's going to draw in entirely too much attention and be nipped in the bud.
In my opinion: Build the faction, then build the faction stronghold, somewhere secret, safe, if you're going to publicly admit to being evil.
That was what Elrid said in game as well Dwagin. But, people were like, let the enemy come we destroy them.
It can't go on the surface, it just wouldn't work IC. That degree of evil concentrated and unified would draw IC opposition and rightly so.
Make it an Under-city with a tower or keep on the surface. Amia is isolated enough that various evil groups from the Underdark would be forced to reach an agreement of sorts to access the resources of the surface. That gives cause enough for a 'council' of sorts that would be too caught up with internal bickering to bother with regulating the population heavily.
I know there is already Underport but to be fair that is one small area and, if the rumors are true, the new Amia B Underdark warrants a bit more then that. Add a small-but-not-too-small above ground area, maybe a keep carved out of solid rock(a la Harry Potter movies wizard prison, Azakaban or Azkabam or something) that also has a dock and there you go.
You could have Kholingen for the super good guys, Cordor for the neutral(ish but mainly good) and the Undercity for the rest.
EDIT: from a faction based perspective, it still makes more sense to just be discrete. I giant 'tower of Sauron' type thing is just going to draw out the masses of budding 'Kings of the West' that would love to stand at it's gates and yell abuse.
Well Tormie you know why I am in favor of it? I hate the evil side of Amia. Honestly. They sprout well played in one character that is PvPed by everyone else and hunted like hell until the player or quit playing it or leave the game.
The good guys have an enemy to fight in Tarkuul, Banites, Malarites, Mask people. But, honestly what are they doing to bring a real fight between good and evil? You log in Amia and the RP you see around are couples talking with each other and sometimes with their friends. I think the building of relationships is a part of character, but it is taking more space of rp than anything else. Two days ago I logged in Amia and every person I knew was rping relationships. Of course I could do the same it isn't difficult to find a partner for my girls, but I really want the fights between good and evil that the Kelly was providing to us for a while to happen in Amia.
Many players want the same thing. We need an active evil Clan, we need Darthion to lead the Banites to attack a town like Guldorand. It was so cool when the Banites were plotting on taking over the place. I really liked you Darth as a leader of the Banites and I honestly would like to see you back leading the Banites into some cool plot.
I want the Draconic Back to add to the Banites and take the mind of people from them, so they wont be overly PvP. Because while the good guys were worried about the Banites attacking Guldorand, we were attacking and kidnapping the mayor of Uhm.
We would give the good knights of Amia a reason to play and a reason to be Knights.
I dont think that the obvious place is the solution, the old place is known and we wont be able to build it without have it hellballed. However, a hiding spot, where nasty monsters would exist around the Hold would be quite better. But, before we need to organize the Draconics, bring them back to game, give them an objective and when we have the players actively playing and ploting, find ourselves a home. If we can do that, so then I think we should have our Hold.
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
I don't see how a city would make up for a lack of leadership. There's plenty of places were you could scheme and plot your evil plans to wreak havoc on something.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
The main reason for lack of leadership, is the lack of knowing theres people out there.
Seriously. I recall someone saying theres 3 different Harper groups, cause they're so secret they don't know about each other. Now don't get all pissy and go "whats harpers got to do about this?". Evil people hide, they scheme, and plot from the shadows.
Now think of it this way, if every single evil person has to hide to keep going on, how small do you think that group is going to be? And how high do you think the chances of someone looking to help them is going to be? Add that up.
An actual -evil- city, means no hiding. People will know you're there, and if they want to help they will find you.
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Location: Some planet known as Earth
Kjetta wrote:
I don't see how a city would make up for a lack of leadership. There's plenty of places were you could scheme and plot your evil plans to wreak havoc on something.
True, this is how most evil factions are set up.
The idea of a 'evil city' only works on the surface if it's made into a formidable city that can't be taken down easily, not some small outpost, or even a medium sized outpost.
The 'biggest' point of it I suppose was to give all the evils in Amia a reason to come together and work together against a common enemy...the hordes of bored epic lvl 30's who do nothing but hunt them down and giggle poke when hunting gets low due to people giving up on amian evil.
If they work together they might be able to do something, and give the good align'd hordes something to do, but being evil factions, they need a reason to work together, the alliance and trade from a major city and protection from smiter mobs incase of discovery would be huge incentives.
Wolfking6116 wrote:
The main reason for lack of leadership, is the lack of knowing theres people out there.
Seriously. I recall someone saying theres 3 different Harper groups, cause they're so secret they don't know about each other. Now don't get all pissy and go "whats harpers got to do about this?". Evil people hide, they scheme, and plot from the shadows.
Now think of it this way, if every single evil person has to hide to keep going on, how small do you think that group is going to be? And how high do you think the chances of someone looking to help them is going to be? Add that up.
An actual -evil- city, means no hiding. People will know you're there, and if they want to help they will find you.
Yes, absolutely, it is much harder to be organized when everyone's hiding under a diffrent rock.
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Last edited by Azrael on Tue, Apr 07 2009, 13:41 PM, edited 2 times in total.
What you are missing is the fact that these plenty of places are either remote and boring/hard to reach for people -or- they are held by one maybe two factions that don't always agree with you and yours. Being quite happy to kick you out when you don't belong.
What you are forgetting is with current racial tensions rising in Cordor this is a grand reason to kick your idle bored evil doer out of the city almost completely (maybe renocate south and the underbelly be hard to get to)
What this accomplishes is forcing people -out- of the city to get RP. It unifies smaller hubs into a major hub bringing evil together. Of course this is all a pipe dream if the Evil players don't work for it. People keep bringing up Wiltun but that would be a bit difficult to do:
Bored Good Epic A, "Hey lets go smite evil!"
Bored Good Epic B, "Ok porting to Server B."
Bored Good Epics port right into center of bastion of evil and start smiting everyone on sight with minimal RP and ignoring guards present. (Admittedly wiltun's kill pvpers instantly coding would stop this) but you get the general idea.
That being said, if the DMs are willing to let Evil take over Wiltun if evil works upon it then im all for it. Yes I preffer we use whats in the module, yes I want us to make use of whats been given us but no I don't want to see 50billion goodies/neutrals allowed to come and decimate us while we try to rise up.
To the good players, you need to realise that if you want to throw us out of your cities we need a place where we can mingle without solid hostilities between us. An evil version of cordor so to speak.
Of course this is just me rambling and I myself am doing what some are going to suggest, that is to say working to improve the public image of my evil character so he and his don't get thrown from Cordor but at the same time I got my fingers in other pies. One of those pies is the chromatic dragonflight and yes there are only a few of them but they are gathering more and people seem inclined to dust off their old retired dragonkin at the hopes of the flight rising again. Though i'm more in accord with a LE city that allows all evil factions a pressence and voice.
Hmm i'm probably gonna have my thoughts picked apart i'm eager to hear what people say but I ask people to stop being so negative to an idea and instead offer constructive criticism.
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
I don't see how a city would make up for a lack of leadership. There's plenty of places were you could scheme and plot your evil plans to wreak havoc on something.
*shrugs* it would give something to people to be proud of and bust their ego enough to make them to stick with a RP that should be permanent? If there was not Kohlingen, maybe there would not be any Holy Knight as the Triadic Knights and Defenders anymore. Because what brought the Triadic Knigths to existence were the desire to bring RP to that town, what keep them together is the existence of a place to be proud and a place where everyone start the game and meet everyday.
I think a place keep things organized. And I like what the other players said too. I have being talking to many people that Amia needs organized and not easy to destroy evil. We need to bring some element of conflict to the server. We lost the kellies that were doing it, we need something else. Besides, if the most militant group is gone, if the cities are growing into intolerance, maybe it is time for evil get bold and think... ummmm maybe it is our time now.
Yes, I said all we need is a crystal in a cave to unite people. I just edited Kjetta sorry.
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
My point would be that this cave and this crystal already excist. You have Zan, The Sanctuary of Sin, Shadowscape, Tarkuul, The Shrine of Loviathar etc.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
My point would be that this cave and this crystal already excist. You have Zan, The Sanctuary of Sin, Shadowscape, Tarkuul, The Shrine of Loviathar etc.
The sanctuary of Sin should be used by our people for entertainment and a place to drink. By our people I mean evil. Shadowscape should be used as a home to a well organized Mask organization. Because I doubt they would allow the dragonkin to take over. Tarkuul is a a well organized place for undeath and is being well used by Frey. Frey only needs more necromancers to make it to be a powerful home and more plots against humans maybe, even if subtle? But, I guess Frey want a more neutral organization that one that will plot the doom of others. The Shrine of Loviatar could be taken over by us if you all allow it? We break the Statues of Loviatar and put the Draconic Gods in place and take over it, making it our home. Then from there we start to connect with Banites, Malarites, Tarkulians and so forth.
Can we take over the Shrine?
Edit: Of course we need some protections against people trying to take over it. We have to have a way to not allow the PvPers to enter and kill us all when trying to have a meeting. We really need a well guarded Hold, like Kohlingen is a well guarded Hold to the Good Knights. Because evil brings all the people to try and attack them, we honestly will need some wards or something that will keep our place protected. And it is fair for us to have it. No one can attack a shadowflame at home, no one can attack the elves at home, people can try and attack Kohlingen but dang they would be all destroyed by the Dragon there and by the Elite Guard and NPCs and Gods' power and the Gods only know what else. I dont care if we take over a place already existent. But we need it to be protected. Maybe even the other evil organizations needing a home could move into this place and have their own meeting room there.
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 Location: Some planet known as Earth
Kjetta wrote:
My point would be that this cave and this crystal already excist. You have Zan, The Sanctuary of Sin, Shadowscape, Tarkuul, The Shrine of Loviathar etc.
For an evil bastion:
My point is that a cave and a crystal don't cut it when the hordes of goodie epics come-a-knockin'.
Paladin1:"Ooh a cave, you packed the 23434 sticks of dynamite right?"
Paladin2:"Yep, we save the day yet again, let's have tea tomorrow in Cordor, my schedule is clear."
Paladin1: "Didn't we do that yesterday?"
Paladin2: "No that was the day before the wedding and the candy shop opened."
Paladin1: "Let's get this overwith already, I'm starving, smitting all of surface evil works up an appetite, and we've got a party to go to later."
...we need a fortified place if we ever hope to last.
My point would be that this cave and this crystal already excist. You have Zan, The Sanctuary of Sin, Shadowscape, Tarkuul, The Shrine of Loviathar etc.
Zanshibon: Passed through by every good/neutral epic on their way to grind the abyss whee thats soooo fun having paladins run through your city freely ayup want that truly we do. Chaotic and abyssal as well Devilkin hate the place.
Sanctuary of Sin: Known to exsist by almost all cordor guards and epic goody goodies, truly I wish to get raided upon daily in a place I cannot be safe. Drow are not allowed in Cordor admittedly you can sneak into the sewers but what drow wants to wade through the filth of lesser beings?
Shrine of Loviatar: See Sanctuary of Sin. Ammendum: Can be reached through the underdark.
Shadowscape: Not an evil place, neutral and good shadowdancers live & learn there. Mask temple is there and has a faction which is fine but I doubt that such a faction would welcome the gathering of all factions to it's home location.
Tarkuul: The only viable (truly) option because it's the only one that goodies can't go rampaging through. Or stand around in talking smack to you while safe via the guards. But all evil factions do not have a voice here, the necromantic council is the power and law under Frey while I trust is a good leader it doesn't mean he will be impartial nor would the PC probably want to give up any power to others to form such a coucil (admittedly this is just a guess and nothing against Frey as he of course has the final say in how his character would truly respond to such things )
Do you not see the issues with these aforementioned places? I'm sorry for getting snippish but I think you're being narrowminded. Again this is just opinion and feedback is valued but why are people so hostile to the idea of an openly evil city that allows evil people to gather in peace with multiple evil factions so -maybe- just maybe evil can unify under one banner when times are needed for such and possibly just a tiny bit of possibility here. Good and Neutral(goodish) players will have something to crusade against that has the power to crusade back against them.
Admittedly i'm being a bit fantasticly delusional here with my dreams of Blackguards and Paladins warring across a field of battle but thats what fantasy is about, the thrill of the conflicts be they open or hidden be they mental or physical.
Regards,
BL
_________________ Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw? Oh curst Effects of necessary Law! How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan, Beware the Fury of a Patient Man -John Dryden, 1681
They are not being narrowed mind. They are asking us to work with what we have. Organize the people and then if things work out and become more than the desire of a few players we may have weight to ask something that will change the module.
What you are missing is the fact that these plenty of places are either remote and boring/hard to reach for people -or- they are held by one maybe two factions [...]
None of that applies to Wiltun.
BeautifulLie wrote:
People keep bringing up Wiltun but that would be a bit difficult to do [because of porting into Wiltun]
You have to choose: Easy to reach and even with a common starting place or no binding point. Random PvP is always a problem, for any faction. In an organized take-over event, the portal could be disallowed. And in an organized event, fortified island > cave.
BeautifulLie wrote:
That being said, if the DMs are willing to let Evil take over Wiltun if evil works upon it then im all for it.
Why shouldn't you work for this ICly even if the DMs are against it? I don't think you need permission to start playing your alignment ...
BeautifulLie wrote:
I don't want to see 50billion goodies/neutrals allowed to come and decimate us while we try to rise up.
Who can blame them? Anyway, they cannot easily destroy Wiltun without RP. "Good vs. Evil" is "RP vs. RP".
BeautifulLie wrote:
Hmm i'm probably gonna have my thoughts picked apart i'm eager to hear what people say but I ask people to stop being so negative to an idea and instead offer constructive criticism.
You're welcome.
I don't know about the chromatic dragon faction, and I'm not sure if Wiltun is the right place for them. But they're a very special fraction of the "greater evil" of Amia. And they have no trouble identifying each other, unlike some of the subtle evil guys. And I don't even know why dragons of different colour would have the same goals and work together and live together.
me? I was never there in the past to really see the old wyrmhold, but I can imagine that khol would try to do everything it can to stop it if it arouse again, even just at the begining, and the area is hallowed by a dead dragon. I though would rather see the evil place in a new area that people might not know about but also with the goal to try to eventually take back wyrmhold.
I don't know about the chromatic dragon faction, and I'm not sure if Wiltun is the right place for them. But they're a very special fraction of the "greater evil" of Amia. And they have no trouble identifying each other, unlike some of the subtle evil guys. And I don't even know why dragons of different colour would have the same goals and work together and live together
Because we are all followers of Tiamat Dogma of spreading evil and bring the world under the rule of the Draconic kind, where every other race would pay tribute to our might and noble blood. That is why bring us to the same banner, common objective of domination.
Quote:
me? I was never there in the past to really see the old wyrmhold, but I can imagine that khol would try to do everything it can to stop it if it arouse again, even just at the begining, and the area is hallowed by a dead dragon. I though would rather see the evil place in a new area that people might not know about but also with the goal to try to eventually take back wyrmhold.
Well, I dont really need to have the wyrmhold. It would be an special place of sacrifice maybe. Use the bones of the dragon to sacrifice the weaklings in name of our might Tiamat. I don't care, where we will have our hold. But I heard now of Armagedon, or whatever it is called, the stronghold of the Horsemen. Banites have their temple hold as well, Tarkuul is a Hold itself. We have plenty of closed evil Holds it seems. But, what are these groups doing to bring RP to the server? Nothing.
I still dont know what to do, honestly. Evil dont work together for long, they end up killing each other in the end. So, going and residing into one of their Holds wont work for the Draconic. I dont want to build another Hold that isn't used. Honestly, evil seems not to stick in Amia.
You know there is a place in the cold mountains that is empty, totally empty, by Guldorand. What is up with that? Are the Aurelites using it? The followers of Auril or Talos? If they are, where are they and what are they doing?
Maybe there should have a policy, if you are not doing your part you lose your Hold's protection and it could be taken over for others that want to do something?
But, one thing I know, we dont need chaotic evil, stupid that attack without reason. We also don't need factions that are only existent in the forum. We need a well organized evil that will plot, that will do damages, that will try and take over things, that will have enemies and fight those enemies, that will recruit and keep a nice army. We really need good evil players and active factions.
So, lets see. Who would like to join an evil army and would be dedicated to bring ideas to create plot that would bring some conflict to Amia? When we have the numbers and the people, we can start to move forward and we should start doing so with a meeting in character.
try to get rp going in tarkuul before you "need" another bastion of evil.
if any building is rebuild in wyrmhold..it would get destroyed by kohlingen in a flash...its that simple
_________________ -Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us -Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
Without reading much of the topic, I'll go ahead and bring a few previous points back up, and try to add some of my own.
First off, to my knowledge, Wyrmhold is super-holy-good now, from some divine blessing, or some such, meaning it would be a rather uncomfortable place for evil to be, especially with the notion that, at any time, the divine blessers would just blow them up.
Wyrmhold is also now at a sort of crossroads, meaning it's pretty commonly passed, and is sort of the old, creepy ruins on the cliffs that grandpa talks about in his stories. If anyone tried to rebuild it, people would come from miles around, and in the fake Cockney accents shout something about plates and tea, and how some evil sonofabitch is rebuilding the castle, then tally-ho! here come the non-evils to knock it back down.
There are already a 1001 little places for evil people to hang out, and they're all very specialized, just like Wyrmhold would most likely be. You have your place for necromancers, your place for demons, your place for dragons, your place for Loviatarans, your place for one-armed juggling midgets, whatever. The trouble with this is that it really divides everyone up into these tiny little groups, most of which are too small to really do much of anything.
So, instead of a castle right up on a hill in the middle of the island, is a place that good people wouldn't really know about, at least until it was nearly finished. Trouble with that, of course, is that it would be A) huge, and would use up lots of resources for something that may very well just become specialized. Evil people have a tendency to kick out everyone they don't like, and B) obvious, and would end up under constant siege by do-gooders because do-gooders, unlike their evil brethren, are generally lacking in the cunning department, with an excess in the bull rush area.
Therefore, what's really necessary is an outwardly neutral city that happens to be a sort of semi-secret hub of evil. Maybe controlled behind the curtain by some evil faction, with a shiny thieves' guild underneath, and a sprinkling of corruption and evil throughout! This could be done with any city, really, even Kohlingen, and would make for much more fun RP than Erik Evil sitting on his throne telling his blood-soaked murdering servants to bring him a paladin's heart for him to eat while he watches kittens' heads being torn off.
Last edited by Carter on Tue, Apr 07 2009, 15:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Therefore, what's really necessary is an outwardly neutral city that happens to be a sort of semi-secret hub of evil. Maybe controlled behind the curtain by some evil faction, with a shiny thieves' guild underneath, and a sprinkling of corruption and evil throughout! This could be done with any city, really, even Kohlingen, and would make for much more fun RP than Erik Evil sitting on his throne telling his blood-soaked murdering servants to bring him a paladin's heart for him to eat while he watches kittens' heads being torn off.
Regardless of whether Wyrmhold will end up being re-established or not, kudos to Ravenovf for attempting it and creating a situation that gives characters an IC motivation to become engaged on one side or the other.
Don't tell the good guys! Don't even tell the evil guys ... they don't want to know.
*prays that there is no evil faction already controlling Wiltun because they would laugh at him for mentioning Wiltun about 100 times in this thread*
Ts
Tarkuul was intended (by Semidi) to become the hub of the evil characters. Mind you, that this was at a time when the Sanctuary of Sin didn't exist, nor did Wiltun, the Temple of Bane, the HoA headquarters or pretty much any of the other current evil nests.
I've always thought it would be a good idea to try and gather as much of the evil forces on Amia as possible. It generates RP. It allows evil to plot with other evils against greater goods.
An evil bastion could include the Banite temple, the HoA headquarters, the chromatic draconics, the Black Flag, the followers of Mask etc.
The evil factions are spread out. Immensely. That's probably what's working against them.
But... then you have the issue of resources, how much time could/should be invested into making this happen, and how much bitching and whining there might be in each individual faction to make it happen.
I made a suggestion to the designers / DM team prior to the server split, of finally making a real evil bastion.
The general conclusion of the discussion which followed, was that such an addition was unnessecary / unwanted / impossible.
Hence. I wouldn't expect an evil bastion to be added any time soon.
Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya
Well, the HoA have been wanting to build a LE city for a long time now. The plans never got off the ground, though. Maybe its time to revisit them?
_________________ Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare' Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
The problem with Tarkuul, to me, is the excess of NPCs. Makes my computer laggy as hell.
So, I try to avoid the place. >.<
_________________ BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
I consider the necessity for an evil bastion to be justthat, a necessity. Admittedly IC roleplay needs to go into this, but I really want to see perhaps some more enterprising actions other than going on and on about how Evil < Good at the current point... you're getting off topic.
Basically there is a 5 step plan that needs to be done.
1. Someone needs to manage to generate a coalition of evil types.
2. They have to be convinced to construct this bastion
3. They have to pick a location (perhaps a plot revolving around hiring a boat and exploring Ruathym/Northern Moonshaes/Other Isles around Amia)
4. They have to build it!
5. Profit!! ... er. I mean... 'Create Fun and interesting RP between both evil factions and also good factions and the evil ones within the city.'
Thoughts on this bastion of mythic quality and current mythic (ie nonexistant) status -
1. Nobody can get into a completely dominant position to the point that other factions are ejected (unless the other faction wants to be ejected and the RP is not of the packing their bags type). We need a Skulls in Skullport type scenario - to a degree.
2. This evil location has to be well fortified enough to handle the inevitable sieges... (the town in Baldur's Gate 2 Throne of Bhaal Springs to mind in a way)
3. This location has to be relatively secluded, yet also relatively easy to get to if you want to get there - if you are at Wiltun, you have to catch a Ferry to somewhere, and then you have to go to the consulate/controlled shipping sector in [intermediate location] where if you pass the evil test (yar, tarkuul style align gate, unless a DM is watching, usual blah) and then you can catch the boat to say evil location (I like the name Issyn Point...)
_________________
Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
I think that the perhaps most crucial part of making a potential LE bastion (or turning something into one...) would be that those major evil factions which currently hold faction specific areas, would be willing to move their faction bases into the new LE bastion.
Such as, the Banite temple having its temple in the evil city, the HoA having their headquarters in it etc etc.
Otherwise it probably wouldn't be worth considering an LE bastion in the first place.
And the issue with Tarkuul is threefolded; It's small as shit, it's stacked with NPCs and the city itself evolves entirely around necromancy and the undead arts.
I think part of the problem is, 'Evil has lots of different flavors and fights amongst itself'... far more than good vs evil.
Its really Evil vs evil & good.
I'd much rather have seen the evil places be all chucked into shadowscape, or some big area thats relatively safe, off island.
Big scary neutral evil shadow-dudes eat your face if you get out of line in the city.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
Who's to say something like this is not already in the works? Evils biggest problem is it stops itself from advancing.
Also, Wiltun would make a terrible evil bastion. The place is so tiny. It is a teensy tiny little fortress on a barren rock. I know a much better place on Amia B that I am just waiting for somebody to do something with.
Who's to say something like this is not already in the works? Evils biggest problem is it stops itself from advancing.
Also, Wiltun would make a terrible evil bastion. The place is so tiny. It is a teensy tiny little fortress on a barren rock. I know a much better place on Amia B that I am just waiting for somebody to do something with.
As far as the general topic of this thread?
"What? What did you say happened? Did the isle suddenly expand, becoming twice its original size? No way. The prowess of the toolset has shown itself once again!"
Tuut tuut.
Though, I'm rather curious what that place might be...
Evil really doesn't need a bastion. It is rolling fine as it is. Even if there was a bastion, give it two months and it is burning to the ground due to civil war.
I know a much better place on Amia B that I am just waiting for somebody to do something with.
I think I know what you're speaking of.
Bolo' was planning a huge rehousing.
But tah place just needs to much of cleansing. Besides those statues are to big.
Edit: And the setting is to cold. Tarkuul in contrary is just right for the hin.
_________________
"Unite with the essence of your blade, forge your mind and make it strong, for a blade breaks as fast as it's wielder." Lo'milmar Cil'in, the Path of Athiyk'VElve
If Wyrmhold was destroyed being where it was the first time, it won't stay up for long...why not make a third UD area?
Besides, Dragons usually live in caverns not castle's, and there could always be anoher UD civilised area...since there are only two... In fact...put it BENEATH the old Wyrmhold...if possible.
If Wyrmhold was destroyed being where it was the first time, it won't stay up for long...why not make a third UD area?
Besides, Dragons usually live in caverns not castle's, and there could always be anoher UD civilised area...since there are only two... In fact...put it BENEATH the old Wyrmhold...if possible.
Would you want this, even if there is no Pool of Blood included?
_________________
"Unite with the essence of your blade, forge your mind and make it strong, for a blade breaks as fast as it's wielder." Lo'milmar Cil'in, the Path of Athiyk'VElve
Joined: 06 Jan 2008 Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
How about before asking for more UD areas we wait for the new & improved UD, coming soon to B?
Personally, a city full of evil with a large number of evil temples and everything (perhaps commanded by those neutral demon/devil things for added neutrality between Baatezu and Tanar'ri and as the firm hand to keep order) sounds interesting to me, but I don't particularly feel it is needed, and certainly not on the spot of Wyrmhold's ruins ... the makers may as well play the 'Roman fool'.
_________________ 2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
Tarkuul was intended (by Semidi) to become the hub of the evil characters. Mind you, that this was at a time when the Sanctuary of Sin didn't exist, nor did Wiltun, the Temple of Bane, the HoA headquarters or pretty much any of the other current evil nests.
OK... if that's what you want to think... but that's not what it was intended for... It was always very necromancer themed, ever since the very very beginning. Even Semidi never liked the fact that the original Council consisted of a bunch of Blackguards to Bane who didn't give a toss about what he felt the city should really exist for, but he didn't care about to do anything about it and bring RP and change to what was supposedly his favorite place in the module.
I may not have been the biggest proponent of Semidi's methods, but we talked a lot, and Tarkuul was always a common discussion topic.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
I know that Tarkuul changed into what it now is during the process.
I actually played with Semidi for quite a while. We got to know each other in the Darkwills, quite a while ago. And the discussion of an evil city came up several times, even before he joined the DM team.
I left for a while. When I came back, Semidi was DM, and Tarkuul had been introduced. What initiatives were taken during that time I don't know.
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
If you want an imposing, formidable bastion of evil, why don't you guys get together and pitch some reform ideas to the Shadowflames? They seem a bit lost in the current set up of the world anyways, and god knows they have an impressive castle.
Not sure if they'd go for it, but you never know!
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
I think part of the problem is, 'Evil has lots of different flavors and fights amongst itself'... far more than good vs evil.
Its really Evil vs evil & good.
The concept of evil and good cities is flawed from the start. None can exist, ever.
You can make a tower that only allows people without a criminal record, or an castle that's run by an evil man, but you simply can't have an alignment based city that's not purely made up by one race that always is of that alignment. It's as stupid as proposing a city that only has males or children.
A city is defined by having many people with different backgrounds, and large congregations of people with a similar alignment would be foudn in private property run by weird people or things like religious summer camps or army encampments.
Besides, even an evil ruler knows that your life lasts a lot longer if your subjects are happy or meek, and not 7ft crazies with a sword as big as a man. The latter type tends to get ambitions that involve your job and the aforementioned sword.
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia (in Canada)
Hrm, wanted to clear some things up about this. For one I would never even suggest it if it weren't for the many people interested ic that have talked to Drak and Rhip in game. I ask OCCly because I like to have peoples input and believe it or not give a damn about peoples opinions as well as their characters.
Second off, Wyrmhold was never intended as a purely draconic faction, it was never composed entirely of dragon kin or even fallowers of tiamat, NEVER. People mostly newbies seem to think because it has the name Wyrm in it that it was. Wyrmhold was taken as a Name because Stonehold hardly apealed to Drak and Layla when they took over the area.
Yes I fully intend to RP gathering faction (Though I want to say I hate the word faction in regards to the hold for reasons i won't get into) members and allies and RP, I'm not just asking that to have back an area that was mine out of the blue.
Why rebuild where it was? Why be open about such intentions? Because thats Drak's way and Tiamats way, remember the truth of her dogma in pnp is to distract the world with obvious seemingly destructive evil while you secretly work your true subtle plans. Yeah it maybe welll travled it and known, but with the right poltical connections and leverage all attacking by Kholingan would do is make life harder for themselves.
Would the people rally against the hold like some boggy man trying to raise up from the ashs of defeat? Some yes, but just as many would remember that when Drak was King the hold stood against the horde, devouted its self to helping protect the biter coast region and on several occasions made no small effort to stop a certain mad Prissmatic Dragon only us old timers even remember. Drak has always strived to create a sheild of moral ambiguity and confusion regarding his true intentions take for example the attack on Benwick Castle, Drak cleared the rubble and buried Benwicks dead in proper marked graves as an act of honnor even after he attacked them because of an attempt on his wife.
Sure the attempt was faked and Drak secretly hired the very assassin he killed and clearing the rubble and burring the dead was an excuse for the hold to loot Benwicks remains of relics and treasure also to secretly curse the dead of Benwick but its all about public relations and that cloud of a moral grey area that can confuse all but the the most narrow minded of do-gooders.
Oh and also anything that can be made hallowed can be defiled. Good and evil are equal powers and what one can do the others can undo.
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