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[ 17 posts ] |
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Lascivar
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 Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 10:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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I've come across all three instances now, where my little Tiefling has instantly killed someone's summon, or dominated creature within a moment of seeing them (Especially in combat situations where they might dominate a creature mid-fight). I can obviously tell that they're not hostile, as a player, because they aren't red, but Deranis on the other hand still just sees a creature that may pose a threat, and kills it.
My question is: Is this allowed?
I've done the same with a Shifter aswell, but that was a long time ago on my Drow, and they just happened to use the Minotaur shape while we were out in the desert near other Minotaurs. (But I do avoid killing players like that without giving a brief OOC warning first)
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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xordae
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 10:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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First of all, you are never in the green to attack someone or someone's summon / familiar / dominate without setting him to hostile first, and make your intentions known through an emote or a piece of dialogue. I've been in exactly this situation where me and another guy had an undead summon and along comes the Paladin and kills it without a word. This is bad practice.
But you are always in the green to go by what your Tiefling would do, even if it means attacking, under the condition that you set to hostile and give the other party a way out, meaning a single piece of text after which they could flee, riposte or make a stand.
A Shifter has to get used to sticky situations based on their choice of shape, too. It happens all the time, and given the proper procedure has been observed (as demonstrated further up) you can do what you want, including attacking shapes deemed attack-worthy every single time.
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Sokar Rostau
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 11:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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IMO anyone that goes to Minotaurs in Mino shape, FoD in Dire Wolf shape, Udos in Mindflayer shape, or any similar situation is there for PvP. Period. The only argument to be made is that the people you meet while in those forms in those places are being forced to metagame, break out of character, and forget their current situation to RP whatever you are trying to force on them - and that's not sufficient argument. When I meet people doing this now I just tell them they are being ignored and that, as far as my character is concerned, they are not there.
_________________
"Where's my pony?"
"I'm sorry, baby, I had to feed that pony to a dragon."
"Oh. Whose horse is this?"
"It's a Warhorse, baby."
"Whose Warhorse is this?"
"Zed's"
"Who's Zed?"
"Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead."
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Mah-red
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 12:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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umm.. i would think that the question answers itself.. "metagaming" is not allowed period.. though in certain circumstances.. but if someone approaches you in illithid form in udos dro'xun.. going hostile and attacking them is not metagaming..
thats my 2 cents anyway
_________________
If a man who cannot count finds a four-leaf clover, is he lucky?
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 12:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Since the rules say that you are not allowed to just engage in PvP like that, I would say you are forced to metagame that they're different.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Kjetta
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 12:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
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You are finding problems where there are none, IMO.
Just emote something like: *He notices the lon ekobold; gripping his axe, he prepares to charge and slaughtere him, just he has done with all of the other kobolds dwelling in the cave."
IC intent to attack displayed, IC way out given (Shifter can just unshift), so you are fine.
The only forced metagameing in this scenario is a forced pace, which is true for all pvp incidents. You have to wait for typeing, but that doesn't mean that the scenario you are describeing has to unfold as slowly as you type it, ICly.
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
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Azrael
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 13:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Kjetta wrote: You are finding problems where there are none, IMO. You mean "Oh you have a problem? Here's a solution: " Kjetta wrote: Just emote something like: *He notices the lon ekobold; gripping his axe, he prepares to charge and slaughtere him, just he has done with all of the other kobolds dwelling in the cave."
IC intent to attack displayed, IC way out given (Shifter can just unshift), so you are fine.
The only forced metagameing in this scenario is a forced pace, which is true for all pvp incidents. You have to wait for typeing, but that doesn't mean that the scenario you are describeing has to unfold as slowly as you type it, ICly.
Ta dah!, problem solved, but there still was a problem to begin with...but now it has become solved.
Subtle difference in the state of things, no need to claim players are simply making up problems out of thin air. ...although after a period of time it might seem as such *cough* _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 13:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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So if, say, the kobold doesn't do anything we wouldn't expect of a kobold we are fully justified to run him through in those caves?
I just want to be clear on that point.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Lascivar
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 13:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Kjetta wrote: You are finding problems where there are none, IMO.
An actual example then, to prove that said problem exists: I was up near the Spires recently on the Tiefling, testing some things, an invisible mage dominated the Frosty king.. I saw what they'd done, but the mage wasn't in sight and Deranis would've had no idea whatsoever that it was under her control, since he was already in combat with other Frosties.
I KD spammed it a bit, it died in the first round to a dev crit. Would I be expected to emote something, mid-combat, or just completely pretend he -knows- the king isn't hostile and ignore it during the combat..?
_________________
Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 14:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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You could just type a challenge: "Now prepare to die you cold hearted monster, for I am going to kill you". You've clearly stated your intent both IC and OOC, give then a (reasonable) second to say 'wait' or 'stop'. If they don't then assume they are either buffing or typing a long winded tirade about what they will do if you try; if that's the case then chop!
If it's a mindflayer shifter in mindflayer town then I agree with Sokar. Or say *sees another illithid(?)* and set to hostile. Then wait a second, you might be surrendering the initiative but such is life.
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Moridan_X
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 16:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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Azrael wrote: Kjetta wrote: You are finding problems where there are none, IMO. You mean "Oh you have a problem? Here's a solution: " Kjetta wrote: Just emote something like: *He notices the lon ekobold; gripping his axe, he prepares to charge and slaughtere him, just he has done with all of the other kobolds dwelling in the cave."
IC intent to attack displayed, IC way out given (Shifter can just unshift), so you are fine.
The only forced metagameing in this scenario is a forced pace, which is true for all pvp incidents. You have to wait for typeing, but that doesn't mean that the scenario you are describeing has to unfold as slowly as you type it, ICly. Ta dah!, problem solved, but there still was a problem to begin with...but now it has become solved. Subtle difference in the state of things, no need to claim players are simply making up problems out of thin air. ...although after a period of time it might seem as such *cough* actually no, that doesn't work, as i tried that and i stood there for like 5 min emoting how i was going to kill this red dragon wrmling and i got banned for 2 weeks after someone else attacked it. it killed him on front of guards, and i attacked it, then it almost killed me.
have a nice one, don't kill hostile creatures, especially if they are green, because it is the OOC nice thing to do to ignore your character's natural IC reaction. _________________ Moridan_X wrote: I liek Jean Ortega as a character because it shows that everyone can be different. I also don't think we should incorporate mean behavior in video games.
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Carter
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 16:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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The Incognitos wrote: You could just type a challenge: "Now prepare to die you cold hearted monster, for I am going to kill you". You've clearly stated your intent both IC and OOC, give then a (reasonable) second to say 'wait' or 'stop'. If they don't then assume they are either buffing or typing a long winded tirade about what they will do if you try; if that's the case then chop!
If it's a mindflayer shifter in mindflayer town then I agree with Sokar. Or say *sees another illithid(?)* and set to hostile. Then wait a second, you might be surrendering the initiative but such is life.
Quite so. I doubt very much that most characters just run at a dead sprint through all these dungeons, slaughtering everything they see without a second thought. Giants are sentient creatures, after all. Take the opportunity to do something you don't ordinarily have a chance to do, instead of ignoring the opportunity because it's not a sound tactical choice, OOCly, on most occasions.
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corypx
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 18:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Moridan_X wrote: actually no, that doesn't work, as i tried that and i stood there for like 5 min emoting how i was going to kill this red dragon wrmling and i got banned for 2 weeks after someone else attacked it. it killed him on front of guards, and i attacked it, then it almost killed me.
have a nice one, don't kill hostile creatures, especially if they are green, because it is the OOC nice thing to do to ignore your character's natural IC reaction.
that was you 
maybe the ban was not for PVP consent, but for guard metagaming, non hostile acting red wyrm a common shifter form, that the dale guards are more then used to being next to the amia forest and someone just got stab happy infront of guards. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 20:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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corypx wrote: Moridan_X wrote: *Specific incident* *Counter-argues specific incident* Hey now, let's stop discussing specific incidents, it can only end in tears.
Edit: I am not trying to be snide, no matter how this may look
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
Last edited by Yurell on Wed, Apr 08 2009, 20:54 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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corypx
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 20:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Yurell wrote: Hey now, let's stop discussing specific incidents, it can only end in tears.
no, he was giving wrong information making it sound like attacking shifters in other forms gets you banned even with IC making it known you were planning to attack, that was not the case it was fighting infront of guards. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 20:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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corypx wrote: Yurell wrote: Hey now, let's stop discussing specific incidents, it can only end in tears. *More discussion on specific incident* That was to both of you, not just you, sorry for not being clear.
The DMs don't like this sort of thing for a reason.
Edit: I edited them both for clarity - I am not being snide, I just know the DMs don't like specific incidents discussed in public, since they have a tendency to dissolve into arguments and detract threads (and I'm sure there's more reason that my sleep-deprived brain can't come up with).
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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hendrack
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Posted: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 21:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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A PC shifting into the form of the critter you encounter in a cave just asks for being whacked, really.
Quote: Quite so. I doubt very much that most characters just run at a dead sprint through all these dungeons, slaughtering everything they see without a second thought. Giants are sentient creatures, after all. Take the opportunity to do something you don't ordinarily have a chance to do, instead of ignoring the opportunity because it's not a sound tactical choice, OOCly, on most occasions.
Uh, yes, they do? If I run through the spires and kill 50 giants, why should I stop at the PC giant and suddenly emote until my fingers bleed? If it behaves normal -> kill it! If it behaves not normal -> its up to something, kill it even more! Illithids? Worse, kill it faster before it eats my brain!
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