AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Gate Vs Summon Creature IX

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amia57

Posted: Sat, May 02 2009, 22:34 PM

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Joined: 02 May 2009

Being a good wizard with the choice of either a flaming midget or a strange green man in armour is bad enough, but that's not what this is about.

I was just wondering about opinions from other players about them, personally I feel that the duration should be changed for the gate spell. The Summon Creature IX seems to last longer, much longer and seems to be better. Prehaps the duration should be extended the same with the EDK? Was just wondering, thanks.

Edit: Roman numerals are now correct -jameslocke

Herr Delta Houdini

Posted: Sat, May 02 2009, 22:46 PM

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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England

Gate is far better than IX. I agree, i think Gate should last longer, even if only changed to 5 rounds +1/CL, it would still be much more useful.

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Bactérie

Posted: Sat, May 02 2009, 23:13 PM

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Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Doing so would reduce the benefit of epic summons.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sat, May 02 2009, 23:18 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

It's fine, in my humbledore, and I would like to know here to buy Summon creature XI.

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amia57

Posted: Sat, May 02 2009, 23:28 PM

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Joined: 02 May 2009

Hm, no question the Gate spell must be more powerful.
I guess I was just dissapointed when I saw that it lasted for just over a minute, by the time I finished buffing, it disspaeared.

Herr Delta Houdini

Posted: Sat, May 02 2009, 23:30 PM

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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England

Best thing to do, haste and Imp invis it and when it starts fighting give it a few more buffers, rather than wasting time before they fight.

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Yurell

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 0:27 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Buff Gate and it's decent. If you're going hunting, though, depending on your alignment you my be better off spending your buffs on Summon IX for long term companion rather than mildly stronger short-term tank.

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Dwagin

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 1:52 AM

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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod

TormakSaber wrote:

It's fine, in my humbledore, and I would like to know here to buy Summon creature XI.

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Cori

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 2:09 AM

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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I disagree.

If you are going the epic summon route, then edk should outshine gate, but for a short duration one-time punch in the gut. Good for bosses or pvp. And gate should act as the level 9 spell that it is, and have a reasonable duration, and be slightly better than summon IX (also a level 9 spell). Obviously it should have slightly lower duration than summon IX though, but not as shorter as it is, at least while needing buffing.

If you are not going the epic summon route, then gate should be your best summon. But it isn't epic, so there is no reason for it to be as short of a duration punch in the gut like edk ~should~ be.

Basically....summons like edk and gate shouldn't NEED buffing. They should be fine as they are when summoned, blocked from buffing by design (for balance purposes), and have usefulness. Whereas summons I-IX should be your long duration everyday hunting summons, and thus should require buffing (only for balance reasons though).

Ideally, Gate would be a divine epic summon, and EDK would be an arcane epic summon. But that's not the case.

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Galenson

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 4:00 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Any character whose reliant on summons to do the work for them isn't doing something right. Summons are there just to help with the dirty work. Hence why I'm not particularly fond of either beyond how much damage they take in my place.

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Metalien

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 4:13 AM

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Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.

Summon IX (evil) looks like a Tiefling Rent Boy.

Gate (good) looks like The Incredible Hulk's skinny gay brother.

Summon IX and Gate are ok to a point, but there comes a time where they're just a worthless waste of space and time.

Both Summon IX (Good or Evil) and Gate (Good or Evil) are a waste of space, take Epic Conjuration and get the EDK with pretty good duration, if you're evil take Epic Necromancy and get the Mummy Dust summon with awesome duration... 'nuff said.

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Magnum Opera

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 5:35 AM

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Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines

I think it's fine enough as it is. Summon IX is better at lower levels since you can buff it to high hells thanks to the duration. IMO At higher levels when you hit the Gate upgrades, a minimally buffed Gate begins to outclass even the jacked up Summon IX despite the shorter duration.

Last edited by Magnum Opera on Mon, May 04 2009, 2:24 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Blackdragon12121

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 7:34 AM

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Joined: 12 Jun 2006

Gate, most of the time, becomes a stronger option esp after CL 23 or so. EDK has its downsides, the most obvious one being that because of its size, its a pain to take anywhere that isnt a giant wasteland. For that, and other reasons, EDK imo would have been better off as a short time summon (same duration as Gate) which outclassed all competitors.

StandingBehindYou

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 7:44 AM

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Joined: 24 Nov 2008

Galenson wrote:

Any character whose reliant on summons to do the work for them isn't doing something right.

Unless the character is supposed to be a summoner, maybe?

Nex_addo

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 7:53 AM

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Joined: 08 May 2007
Location: New Zealand

Its fine nothing wrong with it. I play a wizard I know there already far to overpowered we dont need any more advantages..
And shoudn't this be in the things to change forum??

Quote:

and I would like to know here to buy Summon creature XI.

I presume you mean summon creature 9 and it was from either the guantlet or the abyss run. Cant remember which pretty sure its the gauntlet.

If you did mean Summon Creature 11 I too would like to know where I can get my hands on them.

amia57

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 8:40 AM

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Joined: 02 May 2009

Thanks for all the replys, I noticed there was a comment about the Planetar is supposed to be able to run in unbuffed for a short duartion.
That didn't go too well atall, he appears to be useless against pretty much everything with his Low AC.
The EDK route is definetely the one i'll be going for, despite it's weakness against doorframes. However, I was just thinking between the levels of say 17 - 22, it'd be nice to have a not super overpowered angel, just something that will last longer than almost 3 minutes at level 30, also as opposed to a fire midget.

Yurell

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 9:42 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Nex_addo wrote:

Quote:

and I would like to know here to buy Summon creature XI.

I believe that was them sarcastically pointing out that the OP meant IX and not XI.

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Phantom-D

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 17:48 PM

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Joined: 01 Aug 2005

Galenson wrote:

Have ever played a mage character?

Buff->Invis->NOM NOM NOM is exactly how you do it if you don't have a party. I mean what else are you going to do? Cast fireball at them?

amia57

Posted: Sun, May 03 2009, 21:34 PM

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Joined: 02 May 2009

Quote:

I mean what else are you going to do? Cast fireball at them?

Dark Immolation

Posted: Mon, May 04 2009, 3:34 AM

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

Gate should be slightly better, due to the fact that yes, it lasts longer, but in lore, you're actually creating a "gate" to another plane of your choosing, making it possible to pull from about just about any plane you can think of.

BoT page for that would be nice. *shrug*

Yurell

Posted: Mon, May 04 2009, 3:45 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Dark Immolation wrote:

In lore you can walk through the gate to get to another plane, call (not summon) and control a creature with up to double your CL as HD or numerous creatures whose HD add up to your CL.
There is also far more in lore - based on the PnP spell.
For example, you can give it an immediate task wherefore it will last 1 round / caster level, or you can create a contract with the creature whereupon you must pay it.
Any use involving Calling costs 1.000 XP

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Dark Immolation

Posted: Mon, May 04 2009, 4:21 AM

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

Yurell wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Yep. That too. But seeing as we've already got an Amian utensil that allows travel between places, even planes (read: Portal wand), figured that the "calling" of different creatures is pretty much the only thing worth BoTing.

I've always thought it funny that there is so many BoT pages for spells that aren't even changable in PnP but none for summonings. Most summon spells allow you to choose from a list of creatures, if I remember correctly. Not saying da amian flava is wrong, but that seems like a base we oughtta be able to cover.

Edit:

Yeah, it's important to make the "call" thing clear. With gate, a CE character could technically "call" a Solar...but doesn't mean he's gonna answer, now does it? :wink:

TormakSaber

Posted: Mon, May 04 2009, 7:35 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

The reason there's no library list of summons is because creating and balancing creatures is never a simple process, and inevitably people wll only use the "Best" one. So why not cut out the middleman and give everyone the best one for their alignment to begin with?

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Yurell

Posted: Mon, May 04 2009, 8:10 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

Dark Immolation wrote:

Yeah, it's important to make the "call" thing clear. With gate, a CE character could technically "call" a Solar...but doesn't mean he's gonna answer, now does it? :wink:

That's not the distinction between Calling and Summoning.

A Calling spell transports the creature to you from another plane, with a one-way ticket back that may only be used in certain circumstances (i.e. those described in the spell description). Called creatures actually die when they are killed, and since the spell is instantaneous they can't be dispelled.

A Summoning spell instantly brings another creature or object to you, and it is held together for the spells duration - the ending of the spell, through any means, makes the creature vanish, so it can be dispelled. When it is 'killed' it takes 24 hours to reform, and while it is summoned it cannot use any innate abilities and will refuse to cast any sell with an XP component.

When casting Gate the creature is pulled through, wiling or unwilling.

Praise be Akatosh for those of you who get the reference for drow RP ... learned al of this when I was studying for the test for Faern :D

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Galenson

Posted: Mon, May 04 2009, 8:35 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Phantom-D wrote:

Galenson wrote:

Have ever played a mage character?

Buff->Invis->NOM NOM NOM is exactly how you do it if you don't have a party. I mean what else are you going to do? Cast fireball at them?

Well, considering how much I hate mages, I'll safely assume they're just doing things completely wrong coz they're unable to do anything else with a 15 minute rest timer.

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Gate Vs Summon Creature IX

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