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Ramika
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 Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 5:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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I don't typically RP it as death in PvP unless the other player asks/agrees (which no one has in my case). Because of the rules with the PvP system, devcrit doesn't make much sense to me to be a killing blow. I prefer just knocking them silly and leaving them, or whatever it is I decide to do.
However, if the other character/player agrees to getting a longsword rammed so far up their throat it comes out their rear, then by all means, RP it as enjoyably as you see fit (just, you know, stick within the rules).
Just because the other person doesn't die doesn't mean the character themselves can't take some pride in the fact they just one shotted someone and beat the living snot out of them.
_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 5:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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I could say "a devastating turn of events", or "a devastating right hook to the jaw", but doesn't mean something/someone died.
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 5:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Magnum Opera wrote: Edit: Note that I'm referring more on the direction of this thread. I'd suppose you derived your assumption that this thread is about the PvP system due to that most posts here just happen to refer to how the dev-critter RPs his dev-crit. Still, it doesn't mean the dev-critee cannot RP his own demise.
Direction of this thread? ..It applies to PvP and PvM if that's what's being asked.
Dev critee has to roleplay what the attacker/killer wants at the moment (because they have your corpse) as long as it isn't a breech in torture rp/ as in it's an appropriate request.
I don't think we should pretend that dev crit is just another hit, it clearly isn't. I would like to be able to say, "That was a devastating critical hit, I'm therefore dead. wysiwyg, try a raise spell/scroll"
People/charaters have the right to refuse coming back to life, but if they're roleplayed as knocked out every time instead of dead they have no right anymore. Quite simply it is a loop-hole in the rule. _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
Last edited by Azrael on Fri, May 08 2009, 5:50 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 5:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Err.. so what makes it different from setting to duel mode then killing outright without using dev-crit? Given your interpretation, the killer still has rights to what happens to the corpse, dev-crit or no dev-crit.
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Grymia
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 5:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I have to agree with Magnum Opera, really.
The one doing the attacking has as much right to declare if they are solely going for knockout, or to kill.
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 5:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Magnum Opera wrote: Err.. so what makes it different from setting to duel mode then killing outright without using dev-crit? Given your interpretation, the killer still has rights to what happens to the corpse, dev-crit or no dev-crit.
Quite true it applies to others too, multiple sword hits that lead to death and then they claim oh was just multiple attempts to knock out...*eye roll* Raise scrolls aren't 'that' expensive and the pvp tool gives free raises so it can be 'roleplayed' as death then raised via scroll that attacker doesn't even have to pay for.
Roleplaying knockout/down? ...I would suggest using the dice for a grapple/str check, no player 'has' to use dice however.
I suppose it is a fine line between "countering the oocness of people coming back to life all the gawd damn time and KD lets them live, less noticeable ooc respawn button." and "never killing anyone but always knocking them out with multiple hits every time, that 'somehow', 'magically' are never fatal..even if said person is a 8 INT barbarian orc"
I suppose I have this position because I think the death system is messed up with ooc anti-realism as well. I'd love a timer after death unless raise scroll/pvp item used, I'd love to do away with the ooc respawns required and instead let the "After 5 min, free respawn, if death from pvp script" actually kick in.
Basically I think death should be a bigger deal than it is, and when it is then this knockdown all the time counter isn't rly needed anymore.
(if a person is griefed they can 'always' report such, perhaps a no pvp rule for certain amount of time unless both parties oocly agree?)
I'd actually support penalties on pvp death to give people something to think about before rushing off into pvp careless and totally care-free.
...but that's just me I guess. _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
Last edited by Azrael on Fri, May 08 2009, 6:14 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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I could be slapping him hard and silly with the broad side of my blade... Or your opponent lost enough blood to render them unconscious... I dunno, use your imagination. WYSIWYG is not always applicable, and the plethora of *emotes* are testament to that.
Edit: Bah! derailed! Is there no way to make NWN bodies explode?
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Azrael wrote: Well then it's not a "devastating" critical hit...it's just a "knock-out critical hit" Yes.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I agree with Grymia and Magnum ... I don't see why it couldn't knock you out / debilitate. They could have sliced off your leg or otherwise incapacitated you.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Yurell wrote: I agree with Grymia and Magnum ... I don't see why it couldn't knock you out / debilitate. They could have sliced off your leg or otherwise incapacitated you.
Those are 'Called shots' and 'knockdown/imp knockdown' usually.
I suppose I'm just hung up over the idea of devastating critical, not being devastating.
Perhaps a knock-out system that doesn't directly involve the death system would be nice, perhaps on use it rolls a check to see if target is knocked out? based on Con modifier vs Str modifier? 1d20. (would have to only work in very close range however)
..just an idea. _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
Last edited by Azrael on Fri, May 08 2009, 6:49 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I hhave the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating".
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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TormakSaber wrote: If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I have the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating".
So you went to medical school and know which places 'not' to hit extremely hard? Hitting and not killing takes intelligence not raw power. _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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BlackDahlya
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Land of the Scorching Sun, Empowered by Global Warming
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Yurell wrote: I agree with Grymia and Magnum ... I don't see why it couldn't knock you out / debilitate. They could have sliced off your leg or otherwise incapacitated you.
This.
Especially if you are meant to be in a friendly sparring. ~Of course~ you don't mean to kill your opponent.
_________________
BlackDahlya
Once Upon A Time Played
Adr'ael Ken'rahel, Auron Teken’ath, Aurora Mesodias, 'Daniel' Daoskinaxarijikkym, Eilin'ira, Helena Rios, Layla Faircurrent, May'Une Do'Ndar, Mellinda Tellus, Michael of Cliffside, Rizzen of Twilight, Valkirya d'Claddath
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Grymia
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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Actually, I'm a reasonably trained martial artist. I neither went to med school or can claim myself to have the incredible strength needed for Dev crit, but I am aware of the needed techinique to knock someone out in a single blow.
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Grymia wrote: Actually, I'm a reasonably trained martial artist. I neither went to med school or can claim myself to have the incredible strength needed for Dev crit, but I am aware of the needed techinique to knock someone out in a single blow.
Trained to not kill. Point still valid.  _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I hhave the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating".
That.
Plus the PvP rules state that the loser doesn't have a choice in the matter.
The game mechanics simply don't 'let' you choose how you want your devcrit to work ,so why should you be punished for that? It'd be like a drow being punished for an AoO on a spider.
As I see it, anything that can kill you like that can be altered to render you unconscious in its stead.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Yurell wrote: TormakSaber wrote: If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I hhave the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating". That. Plus the PvP rules state that the loser doesn't have a choice in the matter. The game mechanics simply don't 'let' you choose how you want your devcrit to work ,so why should you be punished for that? It'd be like a drow being punished for an AoO on a spider. As I see it, anything that can kill you like that can be altered to render you unconscious in its stead. Is there another way using game mechanics to allow us to? That's what I'm driving at. _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Ramika
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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Azrael wrote: TormakSaber wrote: If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I have the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating". So you went to medical school and know which places 'not' to hit extremely hard? Hitting and not killing takes intelligence not raw power. Not necessarily. WMs probably know their own strength enough to not stab through someone's chest on accident. This isn't about the player, it's just simple game mechanics. Most people don't want to die, so it's easier on both parties to avoid forcing it unless there's an agreement. DevCrit, like mentioned above, could just as easily mean "knocked your sorry arse silly for the next two weeks" as it does "you're dead, haha." Just a matter of agreement. And yes, I know it's not always that easy, but you can't point a finger and force someone to die by DevCrit if they don't -want- to. Grymia wrote: Actually, I'm a reasonably trained martial artist. I neither went to med school or can claim myself to have the incredible strength needed for Dev crit, but I am aware of the needed techinique to knock someone out in a single blow.
I did Tae Kwon Do for several years. We were taught where to aim and direct our blows so we didn't seriously injure someone, but we could take them down really, really easily. The same concept could apply in this case.
_________________
Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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@ Azrael
We don't need it to - we can just say you're unconscious since being hit by an opponent on either setting still results in (basically) the same death screen.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 6:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Azrael wrote: TormakSaber wrote: If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I have the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating". So you went to medical school and know which places 'not' to hit extremely hard? Hitting and not killing takes intelligence not raw power. I'll bite. Torin has been a Salandran for years RL time and can get his Heal skill up to 89, with a +10 kit for 99, and then take 20 for 119.
I also have 14 intelligence and a 22 wisdom.
Can I merely incapacitate with my Dev Crit now?
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Azrael wrote: Yurell wrote: I agree with Grymia and Magnum ... I don't see why it couldn't knock you out / debilitate. They could have sliced off your leg or otherwise incapacitated you. Those are 'Called shots' and 'knockdown/imp knockdown' usually. I suppose I'm just hung up over the idea of devastating critical, not being devastating. Perhaps a knock-out system that doesn't directly involve the death system would be nice, perhaps on use it rolls a check to see if target is knocked out? based on Con modifier vs Str modifier? 1d20. (would have to only work in very close range however) ..just an idea. Hmm, I suppose incapacitate is a much more appropriate than debilitate for my purposes. Devastating incapacitation, if you would.
I do understand your frustration on dev not being *that* devastating/traumatic, but unfortunately it's more of an RP/fun/enjoyment issue, not a system one.
On another note, I can imagine a Dev-crit IKD to be tripping an enemy then stabbing straight into the heart, or crushing their face with a hammer. Good times.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I see it as:
Critical = Hitting someone in the right spot
Devastating = Hitting it hard
Smacking someone hard in the right places can render someone incapable of fighting without killing them - mace to the knee shatters knee, for example.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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TormakSaber wrote: Azrael wrote: TormakSaber wrote: If I have the power and skill to slay you in a single blow, I have the power to direct that blow so that it is nonlethal and merely "incapacitating". So you went to medical school and know which places 'not' to hit extremely hard? Hitting and not killing takes intelligence not raw power. I'll bite. Torin has been a Salandran for years RL time and can get his Heal skill up to 89, with a +10 kit for 99, and then take 20 for 119. I also have 14 intelligence and a 22 wisdom. Can I merely incapacitate with my Dev Crit now? Congratulations, you've got IC training ...have at it. Dr.Torin Yurell wrote: I see it as:
Critical = Hitting someone in the right spot
Devastating = Hitting it hard
Smacking someone hard in the right places can render someone incapable of fighting without killing them - mace to the knee shatters knee, for example.
This still looks like the 'called shot' feat to me. *shrugs* _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
Last edited by Azrael on Fri, May 08 2009, 7:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Or you can be a berserker who, not purposely, (insert dev-crit RP here) to incapacitate him. People tend to forget that crits require a die roll, and a dev-crit requires more rolls than the regular.
imho, dev-crit as a feat represents one's mastery of a weapon to the extent that he has gained the ability to perform a maneuver/feat/strike/whatever that can instantly incapacitate/outright kill an individual. with a warhammer, it may be an incredibly powerful smack to the chest that takes out all the air away from the opponent(incapacitate), or a straight crushing blow to the head(kill). In that case, that's when this thread comes in: How do you RP dev-crit?
Edit: added some some.
Last edited by Magnum Opera on Fri, May 08 2009, 7:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I don't see why you need a medical degree for something you could just practise - I mean, you can drive a car without a physics degree.
You could have crushed their hip with a well-timed swing. You may have crumpled their armour. I don't see why a particularly hard hit has to be lethal and can't just hit a limb.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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I can clearly see I'm the only one on this side of the fence so I guess I'll let it drop. *bows* Enjoy those devastating knock-outs.
p.s. medical degree was to make an analogy, perhaps better to read it as "has training in not dealing blows that cause death."
_________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Dakotaen
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Location: Denmark
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Azrael wrote: Yurell wrote: I agree with Grymia and Magnum ... I don't see why it couldn't knock you out / debilitate. They could have sliced off your leg or otherwise incapacitated you. Those are 'Called shots' and 'knockdown/imp knockdown' usually. I'm fairly sure that if Called Shot took off a leg or an arm, you'd get more than a -2 penalty. <.<
_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko
Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Dakotaen wrote: Azrael wrote: Yurell wrote: I agree with Grymia and Magnum ... I don't see why it couldn't knock you out / debilitate. They could have sliced off your leg or otherwise incapacitated you. Those are 'Called shots' and 'knockdown/imp knockdown' usually. I'm fairly sure that if Called Shot took off a leg or an arm, you'd get more than a -2 penalty. <.< I stand corrected then ^^ _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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Back on topic, are there dev-critters out there dual-wielding warhammers? It's gonna be seriously awesome to RP it as crushing heads silly just like a head would pop if the incredible Hulk performed his signature clap on it.
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Magnum Opera wrote: Back on topic, are there dev-critters out there dual-wielding warhammers? It's gonna be seriously awesome to RP it as crushing heads silly just like a head would pop if the incredible Hulk performed his signature clap on it.
That's on topic?? heh, you got me there, I couldn't see it 
*hulk smash!* _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
Last edited by Azrael on Fri, May 08 2009, 7:29 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Azrael wrote: Magnum Opera wrote: Back on topic, are there dev-critters out there dual-wielding warhammers? It's gonna be seriously awesome to RP it as crushing heads silly just like a head would pop if the incredible Hulk performed his signature clap on it. That's on topic?? heh, you got me there, I couldn't see it :D I think we would all be willing to concede that that would result in death.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Yurell wrote: Azrael wrote: Magnum Opera wrote: Back on topic, are there dev-critters out there dual-wielding warhammers? It's gonna be seriously awesome to RP it as crushing heads silly just like a head would pop if the incredible Hulk performed his signature clap on it. That's on topic?? heh, you got me there, I couldn't see it I think we would all be willing to concede that that would result in death. So anything resulting in death is on topic now? ...ok...
(im just havin' fun with u guys, cheers!) _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Yurell
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I gathered ... it was big of you to concede the point rather than continuing to argue or drop out 
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Yurell wrote: I gathered ... it was big of you to concede the point rather than continuing to argue or drop out ..there's wasn't a point to be made that time ^^
..next time maybe. (and I already did drop out of the argument..you missed the post?  )
p.s. I concede points plenty..like that point on called shots above...somewheres. (the previous post was sarcasm however)
Ok everyone back On Topic!  _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
Last edited by Azrael on Fri, May 08 2009, 7:43 AM, edited 3 times in total.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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I was posting more on about "how to RP dev-crit", so I'd like to think that I'm absolutely on topic. But if you insist, I do believe that a hulk-smash-like clap using warhammers to the lower extremeties would incapacitate an enemy... 
Edit: typo
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Azrael
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Location: Some planet known as Earth
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Here is the actual topic.
Mah-red wrote: This topic is for people's opinions on the title, and how they play it themselves. my character has fallen twice to other player's chars by dev crit. Now ive seen many people play their character as just unconscious after a dev crit, even seen some of the dev critters say to do that.. but to me, that goes against the description of the feat. Both times I've played a few days recovery time after getting resurrected.. I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts _________________ Lalelilolu wrote: *Po-tee-weet?* Night is just another day without light.
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Magnum Opera
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 7:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Location: Philippines
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I'd RP it as incapacitated or killed - depending on mutual player agreement. Well I guess he heard other people's thoughts, ne?
And if I were a dev-critter dual-wielding warhammers, or even if I was at the receiving end of it, I'd RP it as such:
Magnum Opera wrote: Back on topic, are there dev-critters out there dual-wielding warhammers? It's gonna be seriously awesome to RP it as crushing heads/lower extremeties silly just like a head/my legs would pop if the incredible Hulk performed his signature clap on it.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 9:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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I reckon that it would be ICLy obvious that a character was in Subdual mode during a fight. There should probably be an AB penalty applied to reflect the fact you're withholding certain blows, are deliberately aiming for the heaviest plates of helms and armour or are using the flat/pommel of edged weapons.
The problem is that the damage system is not intuitive. Realistic is a dirty word in a magic world, so I say intuitive. Being able to fight exactly as well at 600Hp as at 1, but then being totally immobile until minus ten, when you die, is just silly.
What you should get is a buffer of some fraction of your HP where you can crawl about at 25% speed, only able to perform a very restricted list of actions. No casting, reading or attacking for example, and you'd lose all AC but Armour and Deflection.
Now we see the other problem, that HP are global. You don't have arm/leg/head/torso split up like many games do. You hit zero HP and that's you unable to fight, but it doesn't say why. Both elbows broken? Both knees? Ribs all kneckered and you can't breathe? Semi-comatose and pissing blood out your skull? Doesn't say.
You could lower enough of the limb HP to the point where your opponent is crawling about as above, then punt them in the head at leisure.
You can think of Subdual Devcrit that way: they've Devcrit your HP down to zero, but those weren't brain or heart HP. Your limbs got whomped so badly you were left helpless. Not necessarily cut off, as you might think from Dev on a sharp weapon: they can say they aimed square for an armoured bit and whacked it so hard the blunt trauma was enough. Then they biffed you daintily on the head with the pommel, but the engine isn't smart enough to show that.
Overcomplicted for me, so I just go meh: just a computer game with crappy damage implementation. They hit me on the helmet and it saved my skull but rattled it about something vicious.
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StandingBehindYou
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 15:35 PM |
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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Azrael wrote: So you went to medical school and know which places 'not' to hit extremely hard? Hitting and not killing takes intelligence not raw power.
I'm pretty sure anyone with the Devastating Critical feat, even if they don't have medical training of any sort, has amazing control over their weapon, and has an extremely good understanding of what the results of hitting people in various locations will be.
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Xalyth
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 16:47 PM |
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008
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You don't need to go to medical school to realize that if you chop someones Achilles tendon or bash them with a blunt object in the knee, dislocating the joint, they are going down if they like it or not...
If you've ever seen someone snap their Achilles tendon or someones knee bend back in the wrong direction, you'd know that's enough to put you down but good. I see hit as cutting someone open, a critical as doing some heavy damage, and a devastating critical, immobilizing some key join in the body. I'd like to see someone who got their hip smashed into a million pieces fight on in any condition.
Any character that's hit as many creatures as a devastating critical character is going to know some weak points, think of all the poor innocent kobolds, barbarians, giants, wolves, trolls, spiders, etc. you turned inside out to get to level 24 or 27 to get to that point, hehe
Even a moron knows smash knee, man fall down.
_________________
I sleep with the Libris Mortis under my pillow.
---Carstina Blackweave---
Speaker of Tarkuul
Headmistress of the Magisterium Mortis
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, May 08 2009, 20:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Uberuce wrote: I reckon that it would be ICLy obvious that a character was in Subdual mode during a fight. There should probably be an AB penalty applied to reflect the fact you're withholding certain blows, are deliberately aiming for the heaviest plates of helms and armour or are using the flat/pommel of edged weapons.
The problem is that the damage system is not intuitive. Realistic is a dirty word in a magic world, so I say intuitive. Being able to fight exactly as well at 600Hp as at 1, but then being totally immobile until minus ten, when you die, is just silly.
What you should get is a buffer of some fraction of your HP where you can crawl about at 25% speed, only able to perform a very restricted list of actions. No casting, reading or attacking for example, and you'd lose all AC but Armour and Deflection.
Now we see the other problem, that HP are global. You don't have arm/leg/head/torso split up like many games do. You hit zero HP and that's you unable to fight, but it doesn't say why. Both elbows broken? Both knees? Ribs all kneckered and you can't breathe? Semi-comatose and pissing blood out your skull? Doesn't say.
You could lower enough of the limb HP to the point where your opponent is crawling about as above, then punt them in the head at leisure.
You can think of Subdual Devcrit that way: they've Devcrit your HP down to zero, but those weren't brain or heart HP. Your limbs got whomped so badly you were left helpless. Not necessarily cut off, as you might think from Dev on a sharp weapon: they can say they aimed square for an armoured bit and whacked it so hard the blunt trauma was enough. Then they biffed you daintily on the head with the pommel, but the engine isn't smart enough to show that.
Overcomplicted for me, so I just go meh: just a computer game with crappy damage implementation. They hit me on the helmet and it saved my skull but rattled it about something vicious. DnD actually does cover this, (un?)surprisingly. Quote: Nonlethal Damage
Dealing Nonlethal Damage
Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you’ve accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. It doesn’t matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.
Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage
You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.
Lethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Nonlethal Damage
You can use a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, including an unarmed strike, to deal lethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll.
Staggered and Unconscious
When your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you’re staggered. You can only take a standard action or a move action in each round. You cease being staggered when your current hit points once again exceed your nonlethal damage.
When your nonlethal damage exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. While unconscious, you are helpless.
Spellcasters who fall unconscious retain any spellcasting ability they had before going unconscious.
Healing Nonlethal Damage
You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level.
When a spell or a magical power cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Shrewd
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Posted: Sun, May 10 2009, 9:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2005
Location: Sydney
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Subdual Systems wrote: The PvP settings determine what happens when you 'kill' somebody in a fight. The setting of the killer is the one that matters, and the victim (m/f) does NOT determine the outcome of the fight, neither ICly or OOCly. Mind that you will never get or inflict an XP/Gold penalty due to PvP death, whatever setting you choose.
_________________
Aravain, Champion of Song.
Anar, a dark elf.
Giovanni, Blood Knight.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 10 2009, 20:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Well, yes, but I was showing how DNd, unsurprisingly, has a ruleset for nonlethal combat.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, May 10 2009, 22:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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It would be cool if that cold be introduced, although I just bet the effect would be more deaths rather than more changing modes.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, May 10 2009, 23:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I think we're fine as it is, honestly.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, May 10 2009, 23:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I agree, since there is so little to be gained by change.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Frey getting devcritted back when he was 23 wiz / 7 PM I RP'ed as him literally getting cut in half by the drow that did it.
That.. was some of the coolest RP I've had on the server. I still wish I could find the player who played the female drow Frey fried in his battle haze... I'd have recommended her for a cookie three times over with how she described her death then.
*sigh* Ahh the good ole days.
That was, coincidentally, the action that took Frey from your friendly neighboorhood necromancer to Evil Bastard Wiz / Pm / Ftr he is today.
Regards, _________________ 
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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seferz
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Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 10:58 AM |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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For those wishing to know a way to rp dev critting with a whip? Take a look at one of my favorite animes. Yu Yu Hakusho, one of the main characters weapons, which is a whip that is like the stem of a flower covered in thorns, can cut through anything.
think of it like this. Whip dev-crit: *The whip wraps around their body, and with a strong pull, shreds them into fleshy chunks.*
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Yurell
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Posted: Mon, May 11 2009, 11:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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seferz wrote: For those wishing to know a way to rp dev critting with a whip? Take a look at one of my favorite animes. Yu Yu Hakusho, one of the main characters weapons, which is a whip that is like the stem of a flower covered in thorns, can cut through anything.
think of it like this. Whip dev-crit: *The whip wraps around their body, and with a strong pull, shreds them into fleshy chunks.*
I used to have one of those ... whip goes around neck, yank the whip, neck snaps.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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