I've seen quite a few players around in my stay in Amia RP as if mathematics, physics, chemistry and other subjects are widely explored and stable. People take this to different levels, some of them as small as naming the Sir Issac Newton's Laws plainly and openly as if common knowledge, and some taking it as far as explaining molecular structures and complex names for various elements. Now the people who created these structures/various forms of education wouldn't of exists until like at least 1600-1700s or something like that for our time, and I'd like to know how to RP the situation when they continuously insist on saying that they are right and there is a "logical" (a word I hear all the time) explanation in this "fantasy" (its a fantasy game, not real life) game we are playing. Where are they getting the information? When I've asked some, they said, "Oh, the Cordor Library of course!" like I was stupid or something not RPing this information as "common knowledge".
Technically there are obvious laws, but I would expect players to research those laws of the fantasy world, inside the fantasy world, not extract them from our reality.
Btw, how much information does the Cordor Library actually have? I've run into several players claiming to know everything about anything, and they've RPed it like that. Is there a limit to the amount of information I can OOC absorb and just implement it IC like these other people, or is it just unlimited?
Sure, a character may have 30 intelligence, but does that necessarily give the guy the right to automatically know about modern chemistry?
Extra, on topic but not as important. ---
What I know that is if you have a peasant of some sort in our reality in the 1100s or whatever and he says something about gravity be science, knowing planetary structures, he'd be like defying God, branded as a heretic, and killed since mathematics wouldn't be commonly accepted by a bishop or whomever that basically teaches something that conflicts with science. I'd also question how the peasant would get the information from a library that probably wouldn't give out the most spell-binding mathematical equations for free to everyone.
Ex: My human fighter with an int of 10 (even with a higher, I can't possible comprehend how my human fighter would be capable of learning in depth study on the various subjects, especially the ones we are currently educated in on today, thanks to our "modern" scientists in the 1800s which are responsible for our systems) knows everything there is to know about drow culture as well as elven culture. He also knows about magic and the weave. Don't forget his calculus skill combined with his physics and psychology.
Thanks for the help guys, main questions are in purple/bold.
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Moridan_X wrote:
I liek Jean Ortega as a character because it shows that everyone can be different. I also don't think we should incorporate mean behavior in video games.
You roleplay it however you like. This knowledge exists in the Forgotten Realms, because the Forgotten Realms, while it is a fantasy, is not our reality's version of the 1100s. Therefore, drawing conclusions about the level of cultural and scientific progress and trying to pidgeon-hole Amia into being "generic fantasy" undercuts incredible potential.
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Where are they getting the information?
If you are educated, you can consider it common knowledge. If you are not educated, it wouldn't be common knowledge. Roleplay it however you like.
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Is there a limit to the amount of information I can OOC absorb and just implement it IC like these other people, or is it just unlimited?
Sure, a character may have 30 intelligence, but does that necessarily give the guy the right to automatically know about modern chemistry?
The only limitation any PC has on the amount of information he can absorb OOC'ly is the completely arbitrary opinion of a DM. Otherwise...roleplay it how you like.
Specifically about the Cordor Library, it should not be considered a great storehouse of knowledge. In fact, and here I am breaking a bit of IC news in an OOC thread that a few select individuals have discovered, there appear to be a great deal of books that have gone missing from the Cordor Library over the last year. Most of them dealing with local history.
You roleplay it however you like. This knowledge exists in the Forgotten Realms, because the Forgotten Realms, while it is a fantasy, is not our reality's version of the 1100s. Therefore, drawing conclusions about the level of cultural and scientific progress and trying to pidgeon-hole Amia into being "generic fantasy" undercuts incredible potential.
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Where are they getting the information?
If you are educated, you can consider it common knowledge. If you are not educated, it wouldn't be common knowledge. Roleplay it however you like.
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Is there a limit to the amount of information I can OOC absorb and just implement it IC like these other people, or is it just unlimited?
Sure, a character may have 30 intelligence, but does that necessarily give the guy the right to automatically know about modern chemistry?
The only limitation any PC has on the amount of information he can absorb OOC'ly is the completely arbitrary opinion of a DM. Otherwise...roleplay it how you like.
Specifically about the Cordor Library, it should not be considered a great storehouse of knowledge. In fact, and here I am breaking a bit of IC news in an OOC thread that a few select individuals have discovered, there appear to be a great deal of books that have gone missing from the Cordor Library over the last year. Most of them dealing with local history.
Alright, thanks for the help dude.
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Moridan_X wrote:
I liek Jean Ortega as a character because it shows that everyone can be different. I also don't think we should incorporate mean behavior in video games.
Just think about what you would do if someone started spouting off technical mojo about how teleporters work and the exact physics behind traveling at light speed. You'd probably look at them blankly before walking away muttering about crazy people.
Moridan_X wrote:
Where are they getting the information?
From OOC sources, I'd bet. I doubt even the Cordor Library has books by Isaac Newton or any other physicist.
Moridan_X wrote:
Is there a limit to the amount of information I can OOC absorb and just implement it IC like these other people, or is it just unlimited?
Unfortunately, it lies in common sense. A character probably knows the way around the general area, can start a fire, knows North, South, East and West, etc. I doubt they would know First Aid (Unless they dump a lot into Heal and even then I don't think it would be like modern First Aid) or advanced chemistry. I mean, the basic elements (metals especially) and perhaps a bit about how they interact, but I doubt they would know about isotopes and such. They were alchemists, not chemists.
Moridan_X wrote:
Sure, a character may have 30 intelligence, but does that necessarily give the guy the right to automatically know about modern chemistry?
I repeat. They were alchemists, not chemists. Stripping compounds down to pure elements was unheard of with the exception of possibly smelting down metals such as iron, copper, gold, silver, etc.
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I was going to recommend talking to Yoss about it, but he already got you here.
Only other thing I can say is sometimes what I do.
I don't always readily assume that the things are spoken of in the same way as we understand things with nuclear chemistry.
They may not have electron microscopes, but Magic certainly is a freaking huge boon to knowledge and research, far more than tech is/would be.
Wizards understand and modify the building-blocks of reality through formulae, ergo; the Weaving of Spells. I assume that they can have a very large repitoire.
Also, you may wish to look into the things such as Lantanese tech.
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I agree with Yoss. For example, medical technologies (I'm not guilty in that at all *cough*) and weaponry that didn't exist in the 11th century are readily available, as are items that weren't at all available in the Old World.
And don't forget, every PC ('cept Barbarians) can read and write - how many commoners-turned-monster-slayers would pick that up as a useful ability.
But just play it out you think your character would react - we all know that if the sun disappeared our atmosphere would freeze over, for example. When someone tried explaining that to my Svirf, she countered it with logic - it gets warmer the deeper you go.
It's the same reasoning against Newton's Laws - "An object at rest or in a state of rectilinear motion will continue in that state unless an force is applied." We accept this is true, and the physicists here could probably argue it quite well.
If Aristotle came back to reason against us I'm sure he'd convincingly wipe us in a debate if the audience weren't familiar wit these laws of physics.
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Magnum Opera wrote:
I guess it's safe to presume Isaac Newton and Aristotle may have been epic level wizards/researchers during their time.
I would guess, seeing that the latter was a philosopher, they were both Experts rather than wizards, since they wee both unable to cast magic to test their theories ... and if they could, Aristotle would have been provided with proof that he was wrong.
Still, such debate seems to be rather pointless, the only advice I can give is to RP how your character would react - if your character was told 'obviously wrong' and counter-intuitive facts, would he believe them? Scoff? Argue? Walk away?
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It's funny that Leonardo Da Vinci (I think) managed to turn Aristotle's theories on gravity on their head just by dropping a grapefruit and an orange off the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Who needs magic?
Anywho, the way I understand it, FR is supposed to be approximately of the age of the Renaissance, technologically and scientifically. So, I'd not really see things like Newton's laws being unknown. Though I would play things like the elements being as different kinds of earth, air, water, etc. The classical idea of the elements (earth, wind, fire, and water) would still be prevalent, IMHO. Not to mention it meshes perfectly with DnDs elemental planes concept.
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Gers wrote:
It's funny that Leonardo Da Vinci (I think) managed to turn Aristotle's theories on gravity on their head just by dropping a grapefruit and an orange off the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Who needs magic? :P
Anywho, the way I understand it, FR is supposed to be approximately of the age of the Renaissance, technologically and scientifically. So, I'd not really see things like Newton's laws being unknown. Though I would play things like the elements being as different kinds of earth, air, water, etc. The classical idea of the elements (earth, wind, fire, and water) would still be prevalent, IMHO. Not to mention it meshes perfectly with DnDs elemental planes concept.
Don't forget Quintessence, which works well with the Astral Plane.
Although we maybe at a Renaissance level of technology that doesn't mean we have to be at a Renaissance level of understanding. For example, Chocolate Bars would have been impossible to make in the Renaissance, not because the technology was insufficient but because it was a) uneconomical and b) the necessary knowledge wasn't available - the technology was quite suited to the task (ignoring lack of cocoa bean, of course), and could have been advanced even further with just single steps.
Generation of electricity is another example. With the materials available to the Renaissance man, it is quite possible with modern understanding to generate electricity. The only difference is the amount of knowledge, which is why we have things that 'shouldn't' be happening according to our real-world knowledge.
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It's funny that Leonardo Da Vinci (I think) managed to turn Aristotle's theories on gravity on their head just by dropping a grapefruit and an orange off the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Who needs magic?
Anywho, the way I understand it, FR is supposed to be approximately of the age of the Renaissance, technologically and scientifically. So, I'd not really see things like Newton's laws being unknown. Though I would play things like the elements being as different kinds of earth, air, water, etc. The classical idea of the elements (earth, wind, fire, and water) would still be prevalent, IMHO. Not to mention it meshes perfectly with DnDs elemental planes concept.
This. Plus considering that some of the planes actually deviate from RL physics...
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Magnum Opera wrote:
Gers wrote:
It's funny that Leonardo Da Vinci (I think) managed to turn Aristotle's theories on gravity on their head just by dropping a grapefruit and an orange off the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Who needs magic? :P
Anywho, the way I understand it, FR is supposed to be approximately of the age of the Renaissance, technologically and scientifically. So, I'd not really see things like Newton's laws being unknown. Though I would play things like the elements being as different kinds of earth, air, water, etc. The classical idea of the elements (earth, wind, fire, and water) would still be prevalent, IMHO. Not to mention it meshes perfectly with DnDs elemental planes concept.
This. Plus considering that some of the planes actually deviate from RL physics...
I think it is fairly safe to assume that most people in FR are forced to live without high level mages giving them a had. That, however, may not hold true in a high-magic campaign, in which case the physics on other planes does become important, especially when gravity is in an optional direction.
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I think people who feel the need to give logical reasonings for things in a fantasy game have far to much time on there hands.
Not to mention, those same people probably haven't read one source book of FR. Which means they are grasping for reasons to things that are already explained. Which actually just makes them look stupid.
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Yurell wrote:
Selvec Darkon wrote:
I think people who feel the need to give logical reasonings for things in a fantasy game have far to much time on there hands.
Or they wish for more information to suspend their disbelief to create a greater sense of immersion?
As for the latter part, probably right in some places, probably not enough to make a broad-sweeping statement.
Except no immersion is avaliable when they are the only ones coming up with that logic. It's hard for such things to be immersed in a fantasy world, espically since at least half of the content in such a world defies logic and reasoning. If anything, it actually ruins the immersion IMHO, as the formula used to explain one thing with basic logic, will certainly not apply to most things.
Best example is magic and how the realms where born. Impossible to logically explain really.
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But one can usually justify things ... and when something bothers you it will constantly nag at you (well, it does for me at least). Being given some logic often helps to smooth over what would otherwise be gaping holes in the plot.
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I guess it's safe to presume Isaac Newton and Aristotle may have been epic level wizards/researchers during their time.
I would guess, seeing that the latter was a philosopher, they were both Experts rather than wizards, since they wee both unable to cast magic to test their theories ...
Isaac Newton was an Alchemist, so if magic was real he could presumably cast it. I have no idea what history says on the topic of Aristotle's magic-casting abilities.
I've seen quite a few players around in my stay in Amia RP as if mathematics, physics, chemistry and other subjects are widely explored and stable. People take this to different levels, some of them as small as naming the Sir Issac Newton's Laws plainly and openly as if common knowledge, and some taking it as far as explaining molecular structures and complex names for various elements. Now the people who created these structures/various forms of education wouldn't of exists until like at least 1600-1700s or something like that for our time, and I'd like to know how to RP the situation when they continuously insist on saying that they are right and there is a "logical" (a word I hear all the time) explanation in this "fantasy" (its a fantasy game, not real life) game we are playing. Where are they getting the information? When I've asked some, they said, "Oh, the Cordor Library of course!" like I was stupid or something not RPing this information as "common knowledge".
Technically there are obvious laws, but I would expect players to research those laws of the fantasy world, inside the fantasy world, not extract them from our reality.
Btw, how much information does the Cordor Library actually have? I've run into several players claiming to know everything about anything, and they've RPed it like that. Is there a limit to the amount of information I can OOC absorb and just implement it IC like these other people, or is it just unlimited?
Sure, a character may have 30 intelligence, but does that necessarily give the guy the right to automatically know about modern chemistry?
It's not clear to me if "molecular structure" and so forth actually exists in the fantasy universe we're in. I also don't know if gravity follows the inverse-square law: it might, but there's no obvious way to check it, and it could easily be wrong.
The existence of the "elemental planes" and the planes of positive and negative energy leads me to assume that FR isn't a world that has anything resembling the real-life periodic table.
I imagine, however, someone with moderate intelligence or training could tell the difference, in FR, between the classical elements of the "real world".
Else we'd have alchemists trying to make explosives of of berillium and iron shavings, and smiths trying to make swords out of [insert non-swordable element here].
Of course, there's a very distinct difference to your character A. actually being stupid, and B. a player trying so hard to separate their character from the "non-cannon" and therefore wrong logic of the world the setting is based on that an otherwise intelligent character seems stupid.
Honestly though? In a world where giant dead lizards turn into giant dead lizard shaped hills given enough time, and things made literally Only out of fire walk about.. who cares if a guy with 30 int claims there's a force keeping people rooted to the ground?
As a footnote to this semi-rant-that-got-out-of-hand, if you as a player know something is true (or wrong for that matter), and your character doesn't.. remember that your character may very well not know physics, despite your own knowledge, and roleplay accordingly.
_________________ Gahnn Bluetusk Aleksandr Vespermouth II "Malnutrition is scarier than any beastie."
I usually go with Cori's mantra of "Roll with the Punches." I wouldn't worry about sending them tells along the lines of, "OMG. That is so futuristic. That doesn't fit into this setting." I usually have my character make some comment about being confused/lost, or making a 'crazy mages' comment. Mages are like the scientists of the world, so it's okay to call them nuts.
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Honestly though? In a world where giant dead lizards turn into giant dead lizard shaped hills given enough time, and things made literally Only out of fire walk about.. who cares if a guy with 30 int claims there's a force keeping people rooted to the ground?
As a footnote to this semi-rant-that-got-out-of-hand, if you as a player know something is true (or wrong for that matter), and your character doesn't.. remember that your character may very well not know physics, despite your own knowledge, and roleplay accordingly.
This is a pretty good way to look at it. Basically says the same thing I did above. Make an IC crack along the lines of "LOLWut^^?" (but an actual sentence) and move on. It doesn't need to be turned into a huge deal. We all slip up and forget that FR is supposed to medieval-ish. (I once said, "[Name] rocket launched off...," for example. There's not exactly any rockets in the FR universe as far as I know. lol)
We'll, i dont know anything about knowledge about modern things in amia. I have a mage that can do cellular engineering, he just doesn't really know what happens in it. He just separated small parts from different small parts. If someone has a valid reason to RP modern knowledge he should at least make it a little bit more old or magical. Or not, i dont know.
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To put it this way: I see it a bigger problem that people use modern day societies as models in game than using modern day science. I mean, seriously, Human Rights before 1900? Personal Freedom as a right in a medieval setting? As long as modern day values and rights are used in game, I dont really see the problem using modern science either.
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I'd be more confused why the setting has Full Plate Armor, which didn't really become profound until at least the 1300s. Everyone's favorite Dev-Crit weapon, the Rapier, wasn't designed until the 1500s. Chemistry as a science was making progress as early as the 700s (See "Jabir").
Arguing that Science ("mathematics, physics, chemistry") :
"[...]wouldn't of exists until like at least 1600-1700s or something like that for our time" [Sic] is a bit silly.
Mathematics is older than Dirt, Calculus existed hundreds of years before the Katana; and observation of the natural world is timeless. Chemistry and Physics are applications of mathematics to easily observable physical properties and behaviors. Nothing about that is modern.
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To put it this way: I see it a bigger problem that people use modern day societies as models in game than using modern day science. I mean, seriously, Human Rights before 1900? Personal Freedom as a right in a medieval setting? As long as modern day values and rights are used in game, I dont really see the problem using modern science either.
Some of those exist because of the ideologies of various deities and organizations, canon ones.
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Indeed, by they are also modern value simported into a medieval setting. My point was not saying that 'Modern values in Medieval settings are allways bad', but that if you want "realism" as in technological level, you should take the level of civilization into account as well.
In my oppinion I find it rather silly to put modern, democratic values into a high fantasy setting, but to me its not a big enough problem to really be bothered by it.
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Since it's not a subject that has been extensively detailed in published material. we really just have to go with what feels right. The setting's level of technological advancement is easier to grasp than its general level of science and thought. The former plays a bigger role in building a world for adventure, obviously.
Every setting has their own feel, and every campaign adds their own flavour to that. To understad the Realms feel, you really do have to read novels (for me, particularly Ed Greenwood, Elaine Cunningham and the recent Steven Schend) and old game books: the Gray Box, The Seven Sisters, The Code of Harpers, Volo's Guide to the North etc. The majority of Amians isn't interested, though, and that can't be expected of them. We have our own flavour. Personally, I like real world allusions if they're done skillfully and with good taste. Good taste is the ultimate trial by which RP is judged, really.
Mind that the Realms isn't a primitive setting, though. Even human civilization has thousands of years of history, during which technology and society has developed a good deal. Waterdeep isn't exactly a medieval city! We've got swords and shields because that's the genre.
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Since it's not a subject that has been extensively detailed in published material. we really just have to go with what feels right. The setting's level of technological advancement is easier to grasp than its general level of science and thought. The former plays a bigger role in building a world for adventure, obviously.
Every setting has their own feel, and every campaign adds their own flavour to that. To understad the Realms feel, you really do have to read novels (for me, particularly Ed Greenwood, Elaine Cunningham and the recent Steven Schend) and old game books: the Gray Box, The Seven Sisters, The Code of Harpers, Volo's Guide to the North etc. The majority of Amians isn't interested, though, and that can't be expected of them. We have our own flavour. Personally, I like real world allusions if they're done skillfully and with good taste. Good taste is the ultimate trial by which RP is judged, really.
I haven't read any of those, and I have a perfectly good feel for the realms. Just because we don't want to read your largley badly written fiction and your 2e material doesn't make us bad DMs or players.
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No, but it means you don't understand the Realms feel. Or, more specifically, what it is for me. It's different for different people, obviously. I don't mean to say it makes you bad players or DMs, but it is quite silly to say you perfectly well understand something you haven't researched. Assuming there exists some approximation of the general "Realms feel", which I believe does.
Ignorance can be just as enjoyable, if not more, and even create much better RP. But it's still ignorance.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Don't read between the lines things I never suggested, hrmh.
Ignorance means lack of information on something. You can take it as an offensive word, but it really is a neutral statement of facts. If you do not know the original campaign setting book, you are ignorant of its contents and, therefore, the setting's origins. At no point did I say whether it's a good thing or a bad thing: it simply is, and you can make of it what you will.
Now, personally, I don't think you can have a balanced overall view of a subject without unbiased research of most of the important sources. And you don't have to have such a view in order to be an amazing player or DM in our campaign (which is not the general Realms). The two can be discussed as seperate matters, and I can easily question your knowledge of the Realms from their origins to this day, without questioning the fact that you're a much better DM than me.
I talk about things, not people.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Also: Forgotten Realms is in no way "medeival", in the pure "Women get no rights, everyone's ruled, and a king controls everything" way people like to assume.
There's ninjas for Pete's sake. Ninjas that fight dragons.
It doesn't have to make sense. Stop trying to force it to, and enjoy yourself.
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There have been elven empires who crafted portal networks spanning the continent, small armies of war golems, and floating platforms to wage war. You know, over 15 000 years ago. There have been mage nations who built portals into other worlds, brought entire populations into slavery and barred gods entrance into Realmspace, or constructed flying cities powered by big power crystals that would act as batteries of quasimagical items. About 6 000 years ago.
Waterdeep has a population of some 1,3 million. It's governed by a council of Masked Lords, but a complex system of guilds, noble houses, merchant houses, the City Watch, the Guard and an order of mages (the name escapes me) are key to its workings. It's protected by magical wards that would put any modern nation to shame. Its diplomatic ties to several other nations and cities, as far off as Evermeet, are pretty much real-time, thanks to magic.
This, to me, doesn't sound like a medieval world. It's a complex, advanced world of magic, scholarship, powerful churches and cool adventurers with swords and shields.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
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QPR wrote:
Indeed, by they are also modern value simported into a medieval setting. My point was not saying that 'Modern values in Medieval settings are allways bad', but that if you want "realism" as in technological level, you should take the level of civilization into account as well.
In my oppinion I find it rather silly to put modern, democratic values into a high fantasy setting, but to me its not a big enough problem to really be bothered by it.
To me it seems like the Ancient World with magic and technology from the High Medieval.
When I was browsing through TV Tropes yesterday I found a nice argument for people complaining that society wasn't like this (the following is my own based on their argument which was the first sentence)-
Medieval society was dozens of different societies acting in a complex manner over thousands years. Can you imagine how differently things could have turned out in Europe had things gone slightly differently? Now imagine Christianity never took over the Roman Empire, and they kept their Pantheons.
Now, have the gods actually give a damn and directly affect events on the world. Throw in other races and, finally, top it all off with magic and ridiculous monsters .... does anyone honestly think that the social position of people would be in the same position as it was in our world when we were at the same level of technology?
Waterdeep has a population equal to that of Rome at the height of her power, scholarship is powerful, most of the people we get introduced to can read and write, there are dozens of remarkably powerful nations with different customs in close proximity to eachother.
As for the Tormak-Iron position, I must admit that I have no idea how FR is supposed to feel, and especially Amia given its very strange nature (in PnP we usually invent our own settings) - I play the game as I think it should be felt but don't complain when others disagree with me.
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The Realsmian Realities as depicted by Spell Jammer use the Ptolemic System of Crystal Spheres... So it logically follows physics within those worlds follows the same system's bounds.
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Well, physics definitely applies to D&D, because we as humans generally have a hard time thinking about things that violate basic laws of physics for no reason. Gravity is still in effect and I'm sure has been noticed by people (Mages most likely). But I doubt it's been quantified as the 9.8 m/s squared that we now currently subscribe to. They know that things fall, and may even have a rough understanding of Terminal Velocity. Yet, I seriously doubt they have a full understanding of things such as Einstein's Speed of Light Theory or any of the metaphysical theories dealing with spacial anomalies.
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ainjyll wrote:
Well, physics definitely applies to D&D, because we as humans generally have a hard time thinking about things that violate basic laws of physics for no reason. Gravity is still in effect and I'm sure has been noticed by people (Mages most likely). But I doubt it's been quantified as the 9.8 m/s squared that we now currently subscribe to. They know that things fall, and may even have a rough understanding of Terminal Velocity. Yet, I seriously doubt they have a full understanding of things such as Einstein's Speed of Light Theory or any of the metaphysical theories dealing with spacial anomalies.
The problem with calculating gravity is that they don't likely have an accurate enough time measuring device ... I'm quite sure they could empirically arrive at ~10ms^-2 if they tried.
So long as it can be tested with their technology, I'd say they'd know basic laws of physics even as advanced as Newton. But I would have to a agree with Einstein's Special Relativity being out of their grasp - I don't think their mathematics would by suitably advanced for that. They probably haven't invented calculus yet, and that makes a lot of advanced maths difficult.
Can I ask what you mean by "spatial anomalies"? That term gets bantered about a lot in Sci-Fi and tends to mean basically anything.
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Can I ask what you mean by "spatial anomalies"? That term gets bantered about a lot in Sci-Fi and tends to mean basically anything.
I would define it as something outside of the norm or form that resides in space. Black holes, for example. I'm not talking about crazy treky talk like time shift vortexs that allow you to see yourself in 2 days or anything crazy like that.
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