I opened this topic cause i wanted to see how others think about this:
If we are to talk about pvp here, many hide under Great Sactuary buff becoming kind of a "ultimate destruction machine" + the advantage of the first hit. I have some reality potions gathered from all around Amia but i must say they are extremely hard to find. I wish to ask if it's possible (as scrolls of polymorph are to be found everywere,leaving the Shadow Dancer's skill absolutely useless) to add some in game. I am aware that they should be expensive and not to be found everywere,i dont know perhaps the Black Caravan to sell them. (max. 5 potions/person) Now i'm sure the ones using GS wont find this topic very pleasant but i only want to hear some opinions why should/shouldnt reality potions be found for sale(again i want to mention: not in common palces for i am aware of their value).
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
Polymorph spells don't render HiPS useless, since the polymorph given is quite often useless against a fully fletched out SD.
Casters often depend on GS while buffing up. If you give everyone reality potions, any cleric or non-Time Stop using mage will be toast in PvP.
Basically, what you're asking for, is for a readily accessable failsafe way for WMs to rush casters while their without the possibility of using their main weapon, which are their buffs and spells.
I believe there's a good balance of reality potions out there at the moment. They're not too common for everyone to spam 10 of them in each PvP, yet they're not rare enough to never see them used.
Not to mention, there are other ways to counter GS, which are readily accessable.
Well,they should be expensive or hard to find no doubt. But my point is the following: while a cleric can cast 2,3,4... times GS/rest finding just one potion its a matter of pure luck and there can be months (in real life time) without finding one so let's say i use 2 potions in just ONE pvp fight (and i have the advantage as you said) then the following days/weeks/months while i have none they can dance naked in my face under the GS spell and i can do nothing about it. I win one fight but lose the following 10. (not that i mind losing pvps. thats not the point)
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
Well,they should be expensive or hard to find no doubt. But my point is the following: while a cleric can cast 2,3,4... times GS/rest finding just one potion its a matter of pure luck and there can be months (in real life time) without finding one so let's say i use 2 potions in just ONE pvp fight (and i have the advantage as you said) then the following days/weeks/months while i have none they can dance naked in my face under the GS spell and i can do nothing about it. I win one fight but loose the following 10. (not that i mind losing pvps. thats not the point)
Well... this isn't an action server anyway so... is your character really that much of a warfreak?
My point is that all casters, capable of casting GS are already stupidly overpowering compared to other builds. I can think of 101 ways to beat regular WM builds without GS, besides, if you just cast GS and run away, you'll have plenty of time to buff.
Most mages don't start with GS. The real pros cast Invisibility: But of course it depends on the circumstances.
Not at all. But it's annoying when you know you cant do nothing about it. Play a cleric,cast GS and summon a true seeing dragon with 600 hp to fight a SD and there you have it.
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
This is a common thing they do. Cast Great sanctuary then summon a dragon(which can spot everything). Not a chance for a SD to win. If we had some more potions IG we could dispell the Sanctuary and at least try to kill the spellcaster so the dragon will be unusmmoned. (even doing this he still has the advantage). The only way to win is to strike first before he casts the spell and IKD him(you need to be really close and qucik to do that). I dont think this is balanced at all.
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
As you do realize i hope that i cant see him and he can go to the other corner of the area(or at a safe distance from me) summon the dragon,cast the gs again and come back.
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
Savatage. Give it up. You're not going to change hearts and minds here, just like putting a timer of HIPS, it aint gonna happen. You're wasting your time, unless of course, you like arguing for the sake of arguing?
_________________ Illithira Frostmaiden (Snow Elf) Guardian of the Frostfell Elithiel Issatheerin (Shadow Elf) She who Lurks Isolia Oussea'lylth (Sun Elf) Apprentice Wizardess
As you do realize i hope that i cant see him and he can go to the other corner of the area(or at a safe distance from me) summon the dragon,cast the gs again and come back.
Eeeh... no.
Tried See Invisibility? It kind of counters Improved Invisibility.
And you can't re-cast GS when you have the EDK out.
You need to learn how the mechanics actually work before suggesting changes to them.
As i said before i dont mind losing in pvp at all. It's just the fact that GS is used as much as HiPs but this time it's hard to do something against it. Any character on Amia with some UmD skill and right item can single handed defeat a rogue...anyway i dont want to start a argue the topic was for opinions. I dont expect tah twe all share the same thought about it.
Oh and about the GS stuff Mr Mago,cast GS buff then summon the EDK and who needs another sanctuary? there we have it. A buffed character and a true seeing Dragon.
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
I am aware that they should be expensive and not to be found everywere,i dont know perhaps the Black Caravan to sell them.
I fully agree that reality potions should become more widespread and available. I also don't believe that making reality potions widespread and available would make mages any weaker or vulnerable. If any, it should teach mages how to be a scarier killer.
I don't get what's wrong/scary about making reality potions common. But as soundofstream says, it's going to be an uphill battle to try to have this changed. Too many mages here rely on it.
Savatage wrote:
I wish to ask if it's possible (as scrolls of polymorph are to be found everywere,leaving the Shadow Dancer's skill absolutely useless) to add some in game.
Going off topic here, any decent SD imo can easily trash EDKs and polymorph/shapechange creatures. Edit: And go for the caster if you see an EDK >>
Last edited by ticket on Fri, May 15 2009, 14:30 PM, edited 2 times in total.
Well i just hope tha tthe DM wont answer to harsh to this topic. It's only for opinions. I dont even dare of thinking i can change something with it. I just asked a question there...
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
GS has already been nerfed. Mage's back in the day used to use it quite a lot but now, I've only seen it used when the proverbial hits the fan. Lets be honest...who starts a fight with a fully buffed mage?
Someone that sticks to her character's ideals and beliefs and is wise enough that losing doesn't matter OOC, nor RP, as loss can always be taken as a beginning of new, enjoyable RP.
I mean... A paladin vs. Sorcerer/BG is a clear loss, but you kind of have to try your smite on the evil bastard. If I ever saw a fully buffed caster killing a bunch of cognizable good, "innocent" people and a paladin, and the paladin would do nothing about it, I'd sob.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Greater Sanctuary only prevents direct assault.
It leaves the caster totaly vulnerable to all indirect damage. Just yesterday, I made the error of staying still in GS while bufffing. I could have been :
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
Savatage wrote:
Oh and about the GS stuff Mr Mago,cast GS buff then summon the EDK and who needs another sanctuary? there we have it. A buffed character and a true seeing Dragon.
Caster outside GS.. lessee, the dragon needs to be buffed to be VERY dangerous. You can then hop over and shank the hell out of the mage, or use a bow+sneak attack, or mord scrolls to possibly remove the dragon and definatly remove spells on the breach list, like premo/ss/acid.
High level summons in pvp isn't as good as they sound, when you put them against players who know what they are doing.
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My point is that all casters, capable of casting GS are already stupidly overpowering compared to other builds. I can think of 101 ways to beat regular WM builds without GS, besides, if you just cast GS and run away, you'll have plenty of time to buff.
Most mages don't start with GS. The real pros cast Invisibility: But of course it depends on the circumstances.
I still agre with this.
And as Blackdragon12121 said it's kind of suicide to start a battle with a buffed mage. I dont think he'll be that stupid to leave GS unbuffed and close to his opponent. And here i'm not talkin specially about SD that can at least hide from the mage and his spells (+good relfex saves vs area spells) but what about other exposed classes?
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
Last edited by Savatage on Fri, May 15 2009, 15:21 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
Savatage wrote:
Uncle-Opustus wrote:
My point is that all casters, capable of casting GS are already stupidly overpowering compared to other builds. I can think of 101 ways to beat regular WM builds without GS, besides, if you just cast GS and run away, you'll have plenty of time to buff.
Most mages don't start with GS. The real pros cast Invisibility: But of course it depends on the circumstances.
I still agre with this.
And as Blackdragon12121 said it's kind of suicide to start a battle with a buffed mage. I dont think he'll be taht stupid to leave GS unbuffed.
GS scrolls, polymorph to spot where the mage is, mord scrolls or reality. Then punt the hell out of the mage while he panics on what to do next. Unless it's a really good mage, it's a sure way to win.
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
Don't worry most likely things wont change regarding the potions just because i or others give argumens for it we are just casual players. It's just my opinion and i wanted to know what others think about this.
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Location: Oregon ('OR-ə-gən') [-8 GMT]
I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to put them in the lootbins or make them more common.
While to you it may seem like HiPS is unfairly disadvantaged, the advantage of HiPS over GS is that HiPS is a free action that you can use unlimited times per day.
The difference between having potions in the lootbins versus having them in a store is the difference of a handful per player versus each player having the limit as N approaches arbitrarily large of N!/x^N.
They're in a good state where they are.
_________________ Those trees won't burn themselves down. (by Maryn)
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
While to you it may seem like HiPS is unfairly disadvantaged, the advantage of HiPS over GS is that HiPS is a free action that you can use unlimited times per day..
Hmm...when i use my HiPs skill in pvp i have to make sure i cast darkness first,that it's night, and to be at the correct distance from the target. Usualy max. 3 sanctuary casted(if let's say i drink some potions of reality and has the chance to cast another one) wins a fight. He can cast anytime anywere. I cant "dance" during daytime and close to him i have to run and HiPS again and so. Anyway the DM is the supreme judge. You do as you think is better.
Oh...you can close the topic if you think there is nothing more to be added.
_________________ No one crosses the Shadow Thieves and lives!
Last edited by Savatage on Fri, May 15 2009, 16:03 PM, edited 1 time in total.
You can dance as long as you're within 10 feet of a shadow.
Night time doesn't have anything to do with it.
Nor does darkness.
Nor proximity to your enemy.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
Then I saw you were confused on how HIPs works, so I tried to be helpful.
The only uncommon places left on Amia are either super hidden stores, which don't stay that way for long, or faction-only stores.
The only way to have controlled/limited their proliferation is as they currently are, or set their price obscenely high.
Leggomi mathematically listed reasoning as to why it is the way it is, and why changing the dynamic to how you proposed would be detrimental to the current established proliferation of them.
_________________ Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
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I just asked a question there...
