AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Ok I play an evil cleric monk. Insane AC for level. So most people around me end up dying and want a revive. Well I was curious when I started, and decided to record stats, and at level 11, I have been raised from dead 2 times (1 time vicious lag that ended up crashing me moments after rev of which i never saw) and the other time I just plain got my monkey whipped..... (dont go there)

He has used 26 revive scrolls! These arent cheap! The people rarely say thanks or even rp it well. Its costing me a lot to put up with mages and rogues who want to rush into the enemy and get themselves whipped badly. I constantly am jumping in front of people to get them out of danger, healing in the middle of back provoking AoO against me (relying on high AC to save me.

Now these people rarely if ever offer to pay back, they think its expected. If you do pay me back I love you for long time, Its an act of kindness, after all most the time If you died in a fight unless it was a boss fight or extenuating circumstances, I dont need you wiht me, You are just around to waste my money and pick up my loot.

I am running out of money fast paying for my allies expensive habits, and seem to be getting crappy loot, Scrolls and basic rings/amulets, or the everdreaded Worthless potions!

If you're an OOC friend you will get a rev every time.

Now that the OOC part has been rendered beaten like a dead horse, lets IC it.

Drahj Tarakul is an evil aligned cleric, Lawful but evil. He would sooner animate your corpse to serve his will then allow you to breathe again. After all you're just another meat shield as a zombie.

What Im asking is what is an acceptabe way to tell people pay up, IC or OOC. Without pissing to many people off, Dont want enemies where ya sleep and all.

Again Thanks Everyone for reading this, tell me what methods you use, to shut up and quit whining, to move on with ma bad self, sympathy, or ant other ideas that help with this situation.

Wait a moment... you're a cleric and you're burning up scrolls? Dude!?

leave the corpses. don't ask them to pay you back, don't use scrolls. wonder out loud if they would be useful as a minion, then walk off.

Withhold buffs till they pay up.

This is clearly pissing you off, and I'm sure it would most of us..... so why worry about pissing off those thoughtless freeloaders who lack the most basic combat sense?

Sometimes people just need beating with a stick before they learn (and serious prodding with it if they won't).

........and yes, some comment about them being less mindless if you raised them as a Zombie, might just work as a hint too.....

(the below siggy more than usually pertinent to what I have posted above!)

I think it's best to just raise them every time without question. If your character requires to ask/demand gold in return, then do it IC.

Either way, they're better to you alive than dead. If they're really just dying alot for stupid reasons, then raise them and ditch them after.

Find an excuse to raise someone every time though. It -really- upsets people to be left dead somewhere.

Just do what is IC for your Character. It may lead them to be more careful of who they party with next time or to not rush straight ahead into danger with no fear as they Know they'll be raised no matter what. As long as You don't kill them , you don't have to worry about raising them.

They shouldn't take what is an IC action OOC. Just like it may not be IC for them to pay you back or thank you for whatever reason, the consequences are IC as well. Personally I think it makes good sense to give someone a scroll with they raise you , especially if they're in your party. If you've already died once or more, chances are they'll be using that scroll On you anyways.

All of that said, yes it's generally good OOC manners to raise a dead person. However, I find it hard to think of a reason why my evil characters would raise the Same person for the fifth time when they die for rushing ahead or not listening. If they keep making the Same mistake after you tell their character, "Do that again and I'm leaving you for the rats to eat.", then that's their mistake. That way they Shouldn't be surprised on any level when they rush ahead Again , die , and are left.

Theres always a tasteful way to carry these type things ICly. Mostly akin to stating your exact issue IC not here.. after you raise them.

Edit: Curse you Chia-cat, this is exactly what I was going to say! Get off my lawn!

xD

Take a level of rogue put points in Pick Pocket leave group pick pocket them rejoin group raise them >:3 and yes thats evil

The only real IC excuse you can give someone (which I use when I see dead elves with my Orog) to ultimately reject raising them is "my deity doesn't let me." In my case it's dead truth: Gruumsh wouldn't permit raising elves. Ever. I would expect the same treatment in return from elves of the Seldarine: There's no way in hell Corellon would permit raising an orc.

But coz I'm not always a bastard, I raise them anyway.

The best way though to stop fellow party members mooching your cash away is to set an x scroll limit per trip. Warn them that once you pass that limit you're not buying anymore and they have to respawn. They quickly shapen up and try not to die as often.

Hey everyone thanks for the advice, will be using a combination. Mostly Im a self buffing cleric, I dont have enough spells to go around for the party. Im ok with giving you flame weapon, thats fairly cheap. I do have lots of extra skil points. Maybe looting them is good IC way (or is that not lawful evil) I could take pickpocket as a class skill.

Anyhow thanks guys. I could just say Ok, next loot thats suppoed to be yours is mine. I mean Im down to 3k, can barely buy enough pots and crap for myself

Being a cleric I'd be screaming to look at raise dead and resurection spells honestly.

You tell them straight: 'Damnit Jim I'm a doctor, not a printing press!'

If you ever have enough cleric levels to raise dead, that's obviously a far cheaper way to go. It also has the benefit of limiting your allies' excursions to the revolving door of death depending on how long it takes for you to pray for new spells.

Exactly what Selmak said. Set two resurections and a raise dead casting per rest cycle (15 minutes minimum) and tell your party that that's it until you rest again. You'd be surprised at the mentality change it has on players when they realise they only have so many get out of jail free cards to play with.

The IC logic is simple: clerics don't like to abuse their deity's gifts

The OOC logic is simple: I don't want to spend all my gp on your arse, however I don't want to be unreasonable so you've got a threshold to stick to. Carry your weight and I'll carry mine, everyone's happy.

your being to nice, you are evil so just laugh at them when they die and raise the ones in your party who are worth alive or pay..thats just my opinion heck my good chars rarely raise without good reason, and them dieing all time is def good reason to not raise them or take them aside and tell them learn to survive/figth smart

In my day, when the gods roamed the lands and loud apple throwing hin's camped in cordor, we always automatically offered to pay back every raise.

2k, automatic barter opening, without even RP if it's the case. But we ALWAYS paid people back. I still do it, and did do it till my time on Amia came to an end. I can't imagine why people wouldn't do it. It's a lot of gold, and hardly fair to the raiser.

Do not raise unless they are going to pay you back. If they refuse to do so, just wait till they die next and walk off.

Yep, if your build has the ability to cast Raise Dead or Resurrection you should be using that instead of spending all your gold on scrolls. It's a good idea to keep a few scrolls around just in case you really, really need them to get your butt out of a sling.

My characters differ a little in perspective, but the general rule is "The first one's free." My characters will give you one raise for free. After that, you better either be a valuable contribution to the party but your just a little squishy or be willing to shell out something (next rotation in loot, some gold, a mythal, etc.). OOC'ly I won't just leave someone laying there dead when I've got the spells to raise them. So, I just send them a quick tell saying just that and then give them an OOC raise and move on with my business.

And if I'm playing a character that wouldn't thank the person who raised her for whatever reason, I make sure to send the person a tell or say something over party about how I appreciate the raise. It's just rude to not at least say thanks OOC'ly, even if your character wouldn't say thanks.

Yep, I only have level 4 spells, so as of yet no raise deads. A lot of times I get to save someone from dying by casting Divine Power swooping in and saving them from the throngs. I will have to start doing this though. I try to pay anyone back that resurrectss me, but some ppeople dont beleivve in that I guess.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

In my day, when the gods roamed the lands and loud apple throwing hin's camped in cordor, we always automatically offered to pay back every raise.

2k, automatic barter opening, without even RP if it's the case. But we ALWAYS paid people back. I still do it, and did do it till my time on Amia came to an end. I can't imagine why people wouldn't do it. It's a lot of gold, and hardly fair to the raiser.

Do not raise unless they are going to pay you back. If they refuse to do so, just wait till they die next and walk off.

Agree. I thought this was still common courtesy? If someone raises me with a scroll I'll instantly go and offer them 2000 gp. These people your hunting with must be new players who arent familiar with the custom, so tell them how it goes. No need to feel bad about this, IMO.

Same here. The recipient of the raise should offer 2K or a scroll in return. The latter is how I would OOC the IC fact that you could search your comrades' bodies and use their own scrolls to raise their sorry asses. Warn them once or twice IC that scrolls dont grow on trees and they're picking it bare and let them respawn next time. And try not to die yourself :twisted:

Its still automatic here. Pay back or give an extra scroll. Hell sometimes I give 2 scrolls as a 'just in case' lol

GreatPigeon wrote:

Hey everyone thanks for the advice, will be using a combination. Mostly Im a self buffing cleric, I dont have enough spells to go around for the party.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Like Surviving party members.

Personally, I keep a list of people whom I raise, who don't either offer a scroll or gold as payback, or at the ~very~ least, say thanks, whether icly or oocly.

Those people blew their chance. They won't get a raise ever again from me. Not even an ooc one.

Politeness and respect goes two ways. I always give the benefit of the doubt, but once you've had that and show me that you have neither politeness nor respect, I feel no particular need to offer either to you.

If I'm in a party, adventuring, and someone keeps running ahead and dying, I have absolutely no qualms about telling them that I'm not covering the costs of raising them anymore, and that they better start paying up, or being more careful.

BeautifulLie wrote:

Take a level of rogue put points in Pick Pocket leave group pick pocket them rejoin group raise them >:3 and yes thats evil

Actually I did this and you DO NOT need to leave party to pick a dead corpse...even from your party. So just take the lvl of rogue and pick away.

And enjoy the flak of OOC ranting when you do that.

Personally, I do the 'First is free' sort of thing when my characters are still lower leveled, converting to 'all are free' as my characters become richer and are partying with people who understand their build's limitations and strengths better. If your party is dying more than once in a hunting ground, they're either incompetent or in the wrong place. If they're in the wrong place, let 'em know.

Tanks should have a certain influence over the party so they can sufficiently gather aggro. If people are dying, tell them to hang back so the monsters focus on you, then let the rest of the party and its damage dealers descend. I've never had any one argue with me when I've told them to hang back. If you're a self-buffing cleric with oodles of AC, you're not on heal duty, so go up and tank. When you get higher leveled a cleric, then buff up other members of the party and take up some heals/raise dead.

Just tell them IC; "You die three or more times, don't expect me to come running to save your butt!".

You did say:

Quote:

Ok i play an evil cleric monk

Afterall.

lol, money isnt that big a deal when you're epic lvls, raelly, if you take job beggar at lower lvls, you might get a lot of charity, and thats really the main part of a clerics income, praying and getting donations.

Otaviosakay wrote:

lol, money isnt that big a deal when you're epic lvls, raelly, if you take job beggar at lower lvls, you might get a lot of charity, and thats really the main part of a clerics income, praying and getting donations.

Oooh! If I make a preacher/begger on Amia, He could be like those mormans that come doorknocking!

"I've come to spread the word of *slam*"

Galenson wrote:

Wait a moment... you're a cleric and you're burning up scrolls? Dude!?

This lol nub.

Don't be calling people nubs.

It just ernt right.

This is like. ANOTHER L2P Thread. Crumbs. I never did such things, I just shut up and learnt from school of hard knocks.

Dwagin wrote:

Don't be calling people nubs.

It just ernt right.

no, what just ernt right is a cellphone company which charges hidden fees.
sorry, i had to.

Yes I still used scrolls I dont have raise dead spells and such yet. And yes Im a nub...

Marauth wrote:

I think it's best to just raise them every time without question. If your character requires to ask/demand gold in return, then do it IC.

Either way, they're better to you alive than dead. If they're really just dying alot for stupid reasons, then raise them and ditch them after.

Find an excuse to raise someone every time though. It -really- upsets people to be left dead somewhere.

I usually don't mind giving free raise even if my lowbie has to sell all her heal kits to afford it. But if she has to sell her own gear just to be able to raise her teammates... I would go about it ICly.

Stand and refuse to move/hunt until your character gets paid or make an agreement that you own all their loots.

Edit: Unless my char is lawful-neutral good... then she would go around cordor and beg for money to be able to help raise her dead teammates. ;D

I don't get it.

Since when is any raise outside of the entry OOC?

You said yourself your character is lawful evil. Why exactly would a lawful evil person be unselfish enough to bring back those who repeatedly prove themselves useless in combat? When, on top of that, they drain the character of all its gold and indirectly its own survivability.

Staying IC, I've more often than not just walked past dead party members when the money was still tight enough to cause each used raise dead scroll to sting.

In fact. When randomly encountering dead characters, my character would possibly raise them, just to demand a huge payback or debt of favour for doing so. If they were to refuse, he'd be quite likely to put them back into their former not-so-much-breathing state of being.

A lot of the time, you feel like an ass for not providing the OOC courtesy. But it's an RP server. If you're playing an evil character, you'll have to get used to feeling like an ass, since the whole point of role playing a character is to be true to its nature and actions.

More so. When you're giving an OOC courtesy, for whatever reason I have yet to understand, since the ideal is to stay IC, and the person on the receiving end doesn't pay back... why would you ever keep giving that OOC courtesy to the same person when he's clearly a git OOCly?

If you don't want to raise them, don't raise them, if you do, raise them. Whats the big deal? If people are stupid and keep getting killed because they keep repeating the same dumb mistake, raise them and tell them to leave because you're not raising them again or just don't raise them, whatever. I wouldn't lose sleep over this.

Treat it IC, since all raises are IC anyway - if they refuse to pay, their characters are arses. Let them die.

That's just my opinion, mind.

Uh, how about you handle it ICly?

Blacklisting someone's character on an OOC level because their character didn't thank you Icly? Really? That's asinine.

TormakSaber wrote:

Uh, how about you handle it ICly?

Blacklisting someone's character on an OOC level because their character didn't thank you Icly? Really? That's asinine.

I think blacklisting the character ICly is the way to go about it TBH. I know if my character raised someone and they refused to pay they wouldn't get a raise again.

Agreed. And for the record, my comment above was all meant to be done IC, not OOC in party chat.

Here's how I'd handle it:

You: *casts raise from a scroll*

Them: Ugh, whoa, I'm alive again!

You: *places a foot on their 1-hp chest, and weapon at their throat* If you want to remain that way, I would appreciate appropriate recompense. Those scrolls are expensive you know.

Them: *pays up*

Heres how i do it

*Raises*

*Continues killing and doesn't worry about gold because one run through Kobolds nets enough cash to pay for a another*

Mr Mago wrote:

More so. When you're giving an OOC courtesy, for whatever reason I have yet to understand, since the ideal is to stay IC, and the person on the receiving end doesn't pay back... why would you ever keep giving that OOC courtesy to the same person when he's clearly a git OOCly?

*grimly heads to the shower with some wirewool and bleach*

I agree with Mago.

Mr Mago wrote:

More so. When you're giving an OOC courtesy, for whatever reason I have yet to understand, since the ideal is to stay IC, and the person on the receiving end doesn't pay back... why would you ever keep giving that OOC courtesy to the same person when he's clearly a git OOCly?

Because it's a game? Because you don't have to be an ass OOC'ly as well as IG?

Uberuce wrote:

*grimly heads to the shower with some wirewool and bleach*

I agree with Mago.

Mago , I'd expect this from, but you too Ruce?

For shame.

Uberuce wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

More so. When you're giving an OOC courtesy, for whatever reason I have yet to understand, since the ideal is to stay IC, and the person on the receiving end doesn't pay back... why would you ever keep giving that OOC courtesy to the same person when he's clearly a git OOCly?

*grimly heads to the shower with some wirewool and bleach*

I agree with Mago.

I'm kinda agreeing there also.

Mr Mago wrote:

I don't get it.

Since when is any raise outside of the entry OOC?

You said yourself your character is lawful evil. Why exactly would a lawful evil person be unselfish enough to bring back those who repeatedly prove themselves useless in combat? When, on top of that, they drain the character of all its gold and indirectly its own survivability.

Staying IC, I've more often than not just walked past dead party members when the money was still tight enough to cause each used raise dead scroll to sting.

In fact. When randomly encountering dead characters, my character would possibly raise them, just to demand a huge payback or debt of favour for doing so. If they were to refuse, he'd be quite likely to put them back into their former not-so-much-breathing state of being.

A lot of the time, you feel like an ass for not providing the OOC courtesy. But it's an RP server. If you're playing an evil character, you'll have to get used to feeling like an ass, since the whole point of role playing a character is to be true to its nature and actions.

More so. When you're giving an OOC courtesy, for whatever reason I have yet to understand, since the ideal is to stay IC, and the person on the receiving end doesn't pay back... why would you ever keep giving that OOC courtesy to the same person when he's clearly a git OOCly?

This! Tell them after the first Raise that THIER arse now belongs to YOUR god. If they do not act for your gods glory for the next however-long-it-takes-to-finish-whatever then you will take back the gift of life. If they say 'bugger off', kill them right away and leave them there. Or, if you're feeling really nasty, go with them to the next group of monsters and let them get killed, then smash bad guys, spit on their body and walk away. Embrace the evilness.

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

Because it's a game? Because you don't have to be an ass OOC'ly as well as IG?

QFT. Geez, it's only 2000 gp...

Well, for me, there is one instance where I do refuse to give raises ooc'ly, and that's in the starting area, simply because I believe that if you do die hunting alone, you should take the punches too, and respawn.

Other than that I usually raise folks I am in party with without any fuss since I have never experienced any real leeches that die just by monsters looking at them.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Uberuce wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

More so. When you're giving an OOC courtesy, for whatever reason I have yet to understand, since the ideal is to stay IC, and the person on the receiving end doesn't pay back... why would you ever keep giving that OOC courtesy to the same person when he's clearly a git OOCly?

*grimly heads to the shower with some wirewool and bleach*

I agree with Mago.

I'm kinda agreeing there also.

I kind of agree also, although I will raise a corpse if I find one, and always after PvP provide OOC raise, and raise in the entrance ... namely, I will always raise unless I have strong IC reason not to.

Raising the Dead. Dilemma

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