AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I've seen it stated in the D&D books, and once in a thread a year ago (though not clarified) that, as a supernatural ability, a Raven familiar can speak one language of it's master's choice.

Is that allowed within the realms of Amia, or is that typically not looked well upon, etc.?

It's allowed, AFAIK.

To my knowledge, most familiar "animals" aren't actually animals at all. They're intelligent planner creatures who can sometimes speak. Key word being most, not all. I'm not 100% sure about it though so someone else can probably clear that up. I'm not the sharpest on Arcane lore.

At the very least, past a certain level, all familiars can communicate with their master via speaking.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

To my knowledge, most familiar "animals" aren't actually animals at all. They're intelligent planner creatures who can sometimes speak. Key word being most, not all. I'm not 100% sure about it though so someone else can probably clear that up. I'm not the sharpest on Arcane lore.

Familiars are normal animals who, via the familiar bonding process, become Magical Animals. The familiars you see in NWN are really more along the lines of the stuff you need to take a feat fro. Normal familiars are things like rats, bats, cats, beetles, etc. Most cannot speak, Ravens can speak one language of Master's Choice as a supernatural ability, and Master and Familiar communicate telepathically within a 1mile radius, but that last one is likely to get you some dirty looks on Amia.

TormakSaber wrote:

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

To my knowledge, most familiar "animals" aren't actually animals at all. They're intelligent planner creatures who can sometimes speak. Key word being most, not all. I'm not 100% sure about it though so someone else can probably clear that up. I'm not the sharpest on Arcane lore.

Familiars are normal animals who, via the familiar bonding process, become Magical Animals. The familiars you see in NWN are really more along the lines of the stuff you need to take a feat fro. Normal familiars are things like rats, bats, cats, beetles, etc. Most cannot speak, Ravens can speak one language of Master's Choice as a supernatural ability, and Master and Familiar communicate telepathically within a 1mile radius, but that last one is likely to get you some dirty looks on Amia.

That's the way I've always treated it.

Why would that last one get you dirty looks on Amia?

Regards,

Bob mage is in PvP with Johnny Armageddon.
Bob Mage sends his familiar a mile away and telepathically tells it to deliver location, etc where he is fighting.
Bob Mage is now fighting Johnny Armageddon and 10 of Bob's buddies show up summoned via telepathic familiar.

Thats how it could be bad.

So it's bad to possess your familiar, leaving your body to be beaten by your opponent, and find someone to help you? Also, I would bet that you would die before you get very far with your familiar.

ShortSlasher wrote:

So it's bad to possess your familar, leaving your body to be beaten by your opponent, and find someone to help you? Also, I would bet that you would die before you get very far with your familar.

I don't think that's what was meant.

Well, thats what will happen. So meh! You can't just say you sent your familiar out to find your friends, I think he should actually do it.

BeautifulLie, could you clarify? I'm apparently not the only one unsure of what you meant.

The only scenarios I can think of off the top of my head, where familiar-as-999-call would benefit the mage, are ones where the mage has had the cunning to summon the familiar ahead of time, and either leave it at his base by all his friends, or park it in some corner of the map where Joe Armageddon can't see it.

That latter one still leaves the mage having to stand still like a dummy for long periods of time while the overland distance is traversed.

I think Beautifullie meant "1 mile telepathic communication with familiar" = "thinly veiled RP excuse for an OOC tell for backup" or something within those lines.

*shrugs*

It certainly beats *quickly casts a sending*

lol

The only use I can think of for the telepathic communication is spying, considering your mage is immobilised. Saying that your familiar is with your friends is wrong unless they are physically there and you have screenies to prove it - OOC tells like that are illegal.

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

*shrugs*

It certainly beats *quickly casts a sending*

lol

That'd be using a PnP spell without permission - I'm pretty sure the person you're fighting will pick whichever DM is in a suitably bad mood to send the screenie to

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

*shrugs*

It certainly beats *quickly casts a sending*

lol

Or *Quickened Sending!*, heh.

Yes, lol.... "I .. uh.. I sent my wraith to deliver a message!"

"Wraiths are incorporeal, it couldn't have talked or delivered anything because it can't hold it."

"Mine can!"

"I'm sorry what?"

"mine can! I crossed it with a phase spider!"

:lol:

Regards,

I was specifically referring to telepathy, which is generally not useable on Amia for the most part.

If I see a panther talk I'll kill it.

If I see a bat talk I'll kill it.

If I see a fey, I'll kill it anyway.

Some things just aren't meant to talk.

The Druid I play regularly uses Sylvan (Animal in some language widgets) with the [sylvan] that I saw most people using to speak Elven, etc. The wolf will reply at times, especially when there are druids or rangers interacting in the RP. Obviously his replies are very very simple (hungry, come, no want, what do, etc). I believe that is within Amia rules?

TormakSaber wrote:

I was specifically referring to telepathy, which is generally not useable on Amia for the most part.

There's a qualitive difference: no information's going from player to player, non?

Besides, the possession thingmy has to involve telepathy of some kind. Admittedly 90% of possession are done so the mage player can have the familiar banter with the mage, 9% of the remaining are to check for SDs for a moment and the remaining 1% is bona fide ICly played possession.

exquisitelyme wrote:

The Druid I play regularly uses Sylvan (Animal in some language widgets) with the [sylvan] that I saw most people using to speak Elven, etc. The wolf will reply at times, especially when there are druids or rangers interacting in the RP. Obviously his replies are very very simple (hungry, come, no want, what do, etc). I believe that is within Amia rules?

As far as I'm aware animals can't talk.

I'm not even sure why familiar possession was implemented. Mages don't 'possess' their familiars in the way you'd consider possession to be. They're independant creatures of their own accord with a magic link to the master for the most part.

Anyways, re: Telepathy, I meant things like "Oh, my bat familiar is sitting in the rafters of their super secret meeting right now and currently telling me telepathically everything that's going on." Or other things like that.

Last edited by Gunz on Mon, Jun 01 2009, 11:26 AM, edited 1 time in total.

exquisitelyme wrote:

The Druid I play regularly uses Sylvan (Animal in some language widgets) with the [sylvan] that I saw most people using to speak Elven, etc. The wolf will reply at times, especially when there are druids or rangers interacting in the RP. Obviously his replies are very very simple (hungry, come, no want, what do, etc). I believe that is within Amia rules?

If by this you mean something akin to simple commands that a smart house hold pet would answer to, like "come", "stay", "attack" etc. etc., it's reasonable. But if you mean your speaking complete sentences an the animal is responding because it understands, no. Animals don't speak. There's no such thing as the "animal language". Sylvan is it's own language, it's not "animal" or Elven. It's the language of the Fey. It's a unique language all it's own. If you want to communicate with you animal beyond simple commands, Druids can do that through "speak with animals" which is a spell. This allows the animal to understand whatever language you're speaking and allows you to understand the animal as well.

TormakSaber wrote:

Anyways, re: Telepathy, I meant things like "Oh, my bat familiar is sitting in the rafters of their super secret meeting right now and currently telling me telepathically everything that's going on." Or other things like that.

That sort of thing is BS metagaming. If the bat familiar is actually flying there i.e. the mage has posessed the creature there, then I think it is fair game, though.

TormakSaber wrote:

I'm not even sure why familiar possession was implemented. Mages don't 'possess' their familiars in the way you'd consider possession to be. They're independant creatures of their own accord with a magic link to the master for the most part.

Arf. All these years I thought it was a thing they carried over from PnP.

The Ranger/Druid and its companion communicate through a sort of emotional telepathy as far as I know. The companion cant speak, but it can give its humanoid companion its meotions so to speak, and use that to communicate.

So an animal companion could not be used as a spy to give back detailed informantion about a secret meeting, but it can be well used for scouting, picking up scents and the like.

Atleast thats how I play it.

Animal companions are just a plain ol' animal that happens to be your druid's best friend.

TormakSaber wrote:

Animal companions are just a plain ol' animal that happens to be your druid's best friend.

This.

An animal companion is an animal that hangs around with a druid because it likes you.
A familiar is a magically bound creature.

Uberuce wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

I'm not even sure why familiar possession was implemented. Mages don't 'possess' their familiars in the way you'd consider possession to be. They're independant creatures of their own accord with a magic link to the master for the most part.

Arf. All these years I thought it was a thing they carried over from PnP.

Nope. The only reason I can think is that it's a leftover from something that actually is implemented in NWN2: Familiars can cast any spell with a range of Touch from their master's spellbook. That rat's bite suddenly just became a Finger of Deat,h for example.

But the modal work was probably scrapped, leaving the familiar possession in as a leftover bit.

Thanks for the replies. The kind of "communication" the Dire Wolf does is as it was described, simply (from him to the Druid) "come", "hungry", "not do", "not want", "want", etc... The Druid talks to him all the time, much like we talk to our pets. Anything more complex is "felt" by the Druid, not heard in any form. As for Sylvan, my mistake then, I had thought (mainly because of NWN mechanics I guess) that it was a language that beings closely related to nature shared. Will stop using it as a way to greet animals. Last clarification, do Druids get Sylvan as a free language or I assumed wrongly again?

It's not a free language for druids, although Druidic is.

QPR wrote:

The Ranger/Druid and its companion communicate through a sort of emotional telepathy as far as I know. The companion cant speak, but it can give its humanoid companion its meotions so to speak, and use that to communicate.

So an animal companion could not be used as a spy to give back detailed informantion about a secret meeting, but it can be well used for scouting, picking up scents and the like.

Atleast thats how I play it.

There is no telepathy at all with your companion. You can learn to understand it deeply and learn how it probably feels by reading into it's disposition, but that's it. There's no magical connection by default.

exquisitelyme wrote:

Thanks for the replies. The kind of "communication" the Dire Wolf does is as it was described, simply (from him to the Druid) "come", "hungry", "not do", "not want", "want", etc... The Druid talks to him all the time, much like we talk to our pets. Anything more complex is "felt" by the Druid, not heard in any form. As for Sylvan, my mistake then, I had thought (mainly because of NWN mechanics I guess) that it was a language that beings closely related to nature shared. Will stop using it as a way to greet animals. Last clarification, do Druids get Sylvan as a free language or I assumed wrongly again?

I guess through gestures it can communicate those things to your druid, sure. If you want anything beyond that, the "speak to animals" spell is your best friend.

Sylvan is not a free language for druids, no. Druidic is the free language for Druids (learned by all druids at lvl 1) which is a language sacred to Druids and that is only taught to other druids, making it only known to Druids for the most part. Sylvan is a bonus language though, along with other woodland languages. So that means it can be learned by your Druid with out much hassle because s/he lives where it's spoken on a daily bases.

(Animal) is Not a Language. Nor is (Canine) , (Feline) , (Avian) , ect.

Druidic Is and Speak with Animals is a viable spell.

That is all.

It may be only another "This is just an excuse collection" but...

What's the status of an Awakened animal companion? Does the spell actually affect their mind too, or just makes the physically stronger?

Widens insight.

Quickly cast a sending... for all I know a sending spell needs 10 minutes of casting (speaking and gesturing the formula) unless I mix up something there.

Everything you could want to know about the Sending spell.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm

Magocrat wrote:

It may be only another "This is just an excuse collection" but...

What's the status of an Awakened animal companion? Does the spell actually affect their mind too, or just makes the physically stronger?

d10 Wisdom, but it's been abominated as aspell considering in PnP an Awakened Animal actually can't serve as an animal companion.

Torzeng wrote:

Everything you could want to know about the Sending spell.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sending.htm

Yes... like I said... casting time, 10 minutes. You'll be dead if you cast that instead of defending yourself before the spell-casting ended XD Unless you are cheesy and hide in GS and are lucky if it will not be disspelled.

TormakSaber wrote:

Magocrat wrote:

It may be only another "This is just an excuse collection" but...

What's the status of an Awakened animal companion? Does the spell actually affect their mind too, or just makes the physically stronger?

d10 Wisdom, but it's been abominated as aspell considering in PnP an Awakened Animal actually can't serve as an animal companion.

That's right, but in PnP the spell also gives the animal 3d6 INT, d3 CHA and 2 HD, and also changes its type to magical beast (that's why they can't serve as animal companion any more) ->according to official Wizards of the Coast SRD 3.5
So, yea, theoretically they become intelligent beings.

Magocrat wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Magocrat wrote:

It may be only another "This is just an excuse collection" but...

What's the status of an Awakened animal companion? Does the spell actually affect their mind too, or just makes the physically stronger?

d10 Wisdom, but it's been abominated as aspell considering in PnP an Awakened Animal actually can't serve as an animal companion.

That's right, but in PnP the spell also gives the animal 3d6 INT, d3 CHA and 2 HD, and also changes its type to magical beast (that's why they can't serve as animal companion any more) ->according to official Wizards of the Coast SRD 3.5
So, yea, theoretically they become intelligent beings.

Always remember the downsides to casting things as a PnP spell

Magocrat wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Magocrat wrote:

It may be only another "This is just an excuse collection" but...

What's the status of an Awakened animal companion? Does the spell actually affect their mind too, or just makes the physically stronger?

d10 Wisdom, but it's been abominated as aspell considering in PnP an Awakened Animal actually can't serve as an animal companion.

That's right, but in PnP the spell also gives the animal 3d6 INT, d3 CHA and 2 HD, and also changes its type to magical beast (that's why they can't serve as animal companion any more) ->according to official Wizards of the Coast SRD 3.5
So, yea, theoretically they become intelligent beings.

That's why, on Amia, when you cast it, it's just looked at as an ability booster. That's not to say you can't do the PnP way if you were doing some kind of plot or something. But yeah, I'm not sure that's ever happened and it would probably need DM approval since talking animals are kinda frowned upon if you just bust one out, out of the blue.

player's handbook 3.5 ed page 48. Ranger's animal companion

Quote:

This ability functions like the druid ability of the same name, except that the ranger’s effective druid level is one-half his ranger level. For example, the animal companion of a 4th-level ranger would be the equivalent of a 2nd-level druid’s animal companion.

*kicks it back to page 36*

Quote:

THE DRUID’S ANIMAL COMPANION
A druid’s animal companion is different from a normal animal of its kind in many ways. The companion is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it retains an animal’s HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats). It is superior to a normal animal of its kind and has special powers, as described below.

This is where I begin the begging for clarity. Not lore-whoring, just clarity since I'd been using this as a basis for my Ranger to RP with and about her animal companion. Especially for the emotional link between a servant of nature and the creatures that guards with them. If a ranger or druid has such a deep connection with nature to the point that it's divinely touched, why wouldn't that connection include something of an emotional empathy for their animals?

NOT Telepathy.

Good lord I would never want to read the mind of an animal. The person might get lost in the thoughts of the creature the way Shifters seem to be in danger of from time to time.

Clarity yes? *holds up cup for some*

I'd imagine that you'd be able to tell its emotions by value of the fact you've been with it for years and its one of your closest friends, especially given your extra skills at handling that animal.
I don't see why magic making it stronger would also give you access to its emotions, though.

As with anything that can be abused, telepathy can be fun and add dynamics to RP if it is used with consent from both sides (that doesn't mean knowledgeable consent -- they don't have to know what was telepathized [that's totally a word] but they should definitely know about the telepathy going on and what player is doing it, IMO).

I've seen it used and with the right player it was funny and fun. With some players, though, yes, I definitely see the worries.

Estara wrote:

As with anything that can be abused, telepathy can be fun and add dynamics to RP if it is used with consent from both sides (that doesn't mean knowledgeable consent -- they don't have to know what was telepathized [that's totally a word] but they should definitely know about the telepathy going on and what player is doing it, IMO).

I've seen it used and with the right player it was funny and fun. With some players, though, yes, I definitely see the worries.

If it's agreed upon by all parties, it seems to be something that is accepted just like anything else PnP related.

Except it's against Amia rules. :wink:

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Except it's against Amia rules. :wink:

Dominate the creature using your radial dial :wink:

Edit: Assuming we are still on the topic of telepathy by Animal Companion moving.

Familiar Abilities: Raven

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