AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Oh, right, forgot reflex saves ignore if passed *facepalm*

A +50 Spot/Listen item being given out free to everyone at level 1 would make bugger all difference to 95% of SD combats.

Galenson wrote:

SDs also have the advantage of casting silence which renders the listen skill item useless.

casting silence? really?

Nekhy wrote:

Even I can build a decent shadowdancer with the gear available on Amia.

That's a LOT said, btw.

My shadowdancer is more than decent. It is just not enough with the very well built crowd.. well, yet.

I need to learn to use gear. I am still learning to build, and I have done some decent work here and there. Alynne could be much better, but she still can do well enough.

So, WonWon and Tormie are actually right and I need more experience and more learning about the building thing and the gear thing. Even Del's gear suck and she is my first character..

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you really think that SD gear should be better, I advice you to look at the gear non-SDs have to use.

I have loads of character of all types. The Cleric is the one in the best position for gear. So are the fighter/WM. I can with all their things get them to 49 AC, with buffs over 50. I cannot do the same with Dext folks. But, I will work on different combinations and such and learn.

HellScourge wrote:

Storm of vengeance.
Elemental swarm.
Elemental form?

Ok, the later is not that good really.. Not enough AC or anything to be worth it.

And yep, Wail of the banshee slam. Although you can counter that with +fort gear. Or Death Ward.

Her fortitude and will save sucks. I couldn't add much to it cause I was worried to add other things..

And spying. You dont use HiPs to spy must of the time. The best way to spy is knowing people and hanging around innocently. You use HiPs to escape. At least I do. It is my utter form of defense when things went bad. And of course sometimes to spy too, but carefully.

We need a gearsetting 101 thread ... (One, that doesn't just discuss undroppable items.)

Look at http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/AC and go through the list of sources. Make sure you got something in each category. Then read the rest of nwnwiki ;)

In theory (and practice) dexers can have higher AC than people in full plate. Simply because a full plate limits you to 8 base AC + 1 from the dex modifier, while robes have no limit on the dex modifier and someone with buffed DEX 30 already has +10 AC in robes and only +9 from full plate.

All dual-wielders lose out on the shield of course, which can be up to 3+5 AC. Still, armor + shield gives you at most 17 AC. Fully buffed DEX should give you +14 or +15 AC, so you don't really lose much there.

So someone with DEX 26, buffed to 38 = +14 could have AC as follows:

Base 10
DEX +14
Armor 0+4
Boots of the Sun +5
Amulet with +4 natural AC
Deflection +4 AC from cloak
Armorskin +2
Tumble +6
= 49 AC.

Of course, it is not easy to make a gear set that has both the best AC and the best stealth bonuses. You might have to make some compromise there. Really, the people with the "best" gear might just have many different gear sets and swap them out depending on the situation.

Hope that helps! Ts

Quote:

Really, the people with the "best" gear might just have many different gear sets and swap them out depending on the situation.

*thumbs up*

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

Really, the people with the "best" gear might just have many different gear sets and swap them out depending on the situation.

*thumbs up*

Yup. I can't be bothered with that, so I suffer, but that's not to say that the concept isn't correct - it's perfectly right.
I'm just too lazy / don't know anything about gearsetting

Of course, it is not easy to make a gear set that has both the best AC and the best stealth bonuses. You might have to make some compromise there. Really, the people with the "best" gear might just have many different gear sets and swap them out depending on the situation.

Hope that helps! Ts

Yeah, I have two full sets of everything for Ayla. One that completely denies her stealth and boost her AC to 49/50. One that will keep it at 39 and make her completely invisible. One that will maintain her at 42 AC/and good enough stealth for monsters (my hunting gear).

She even got a +5 boots for dancers that is better than the sun +5.

I even got persuasion full gear for the gnome and other rp interactions.

That one I realized by myself.

Yeah... my SD gets along alright without gearswapping much... i think his hide is around 61 (level 30, didnt take ESF-hide or anything), and very few I come by can spot him.

And I generally get along well in pvp... win about 50% of fights with fellow level 30s, which isn't bad for someone who mostly uses the standard SD 10 gear.

Main thing I'll die to is dragons and mages that get the jump on me with a wail or something (though I keep wands of death ward)... dev critters usually don't give Vaylek much trouble, though their heal potions are annoying >.<

yeah, I need those death wards wands. I HATE that freaking death spells everywhere.

Delarwyn wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you really think that SD gear should be better, I advice you to look at the gear non-SDs have to use.

I have loads of character of all types. The Cleric is the one in the best position for gear. So are the fighter/WM. I can with all their things get them to 49 AC, with buffs over 50. I cannot do the same with Dext folks. But, I will work on different combinations and such and learn.

I'll just quote Tormak:

TormakSaber wrote:

40 AC is a pittance. You're not geared properly: That's user error, not class error.

If you can't get your AC over 40, there is something terribly wrong with your gear.

My humble guess is that you're just too lazy to look for gear from any other shop. Or then you're just too lazy to mythal your gear.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you can't get your AC over 40, there is something terribly wrong with your gear.

My humble guess is that you're just too lazy to look for gear from any other shop. Or then you're just too lazy to mythal your gear.

Or you're a non monk shifter

Occassionally you'll meet someone with high WIS who also invested something in spot, and you're his favored enemy too with bad luck. Otherwise, you should be pretty fine in terms of hiding. Doesn't mean SDs are hard to kill with other means, so I've heard.

belgianbonzai wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you can't get your AC over 40, there is something terribly wrong with your gear.

My humble guess is that you're just too lazy to look for gear from any other shop. Or then you're just too lazy to mythal your gear.

Or you're a non monk shifter

lol damn right

Delarwyn wrote:

yeah, I need those death wards wands. I HATE that freaking death spells everywhere.

Mage's Mantra, repeat after me:
Mordy THEN Bigby
Mordy THEN Bigby
Mordy THEN Bigby.

I play a SD to and i have to say i agree with most opinions here. The gear available on Amia is very well balanced.Get a hide/ms skill higher then 80 and you have to be very unlucky to meet someone that can spot you (or a dev. crit pale master

). The biggest problem a SD can have is not a low "hide" skill. The trick when fighting sneakers is to survive the first 1-2 attacks(and most epic usualy do),if you do that and know some basic things about builds there should be no problem winning vs a SD-er even with 0 spot skill. Again, I think the gear available on Amia is good. Just try to find the right combination of items. :wink:

I would hate to see SD powerbuilds,it's a privilege to play one already if you like shady characters.

corypx wrote:

belgianbonzai wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you can't get your AC over 40, there is something terribly wrong with your gear.

My humble guess is that you're just too lazy to look for gear from any other shop. Or then you're just too lazy to mythal your gear.

Or you're a non monk shifter

lol damn right

No, then you just fail. Or then you're one of those nasty risen lord-DR chimpanzees.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

corypx wrote:

belgianbonzai wrote:

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

If you can't get your AC over 40, there is something terribly wrong with your gear.

My humble guess is that you're just too lazy to look for gear from any other shop. Or then you're just too lazy to mythal your gear.

Or you're a non monk shifter

lol damn right

No, then you just fail. Or then you're one of those nasty risen lord-DR chimpanzees.

or you don't powergame.

Yes. Fail. Don't start with that RP-build poo! ;_;

Define 'powergame'?

I just looked up Powergame for you in Websters. I got a picture of a singing dude with a huge mustache holding a potatoe.

Uberuce wrote:

Define 'powergame'?

No character development, pure build for win philisophy, wanting the best gear, for the best build, as soon as possible. Rush straight for epic like a bat out of hell, and own six or seven outfits on the philiosophy of "My character needs them to beat other people", rather then, "My character would aim for these".

Powerbuilding and Powergaming are different, as you have explained in the past. Powerbuilding can be rped, and the accumlation of a characters unusual build can make for quite a good adventure. However, powergaming, with intent to win win win, and ignoring most forms of RP, cannot. There's a good chance that unless you are powergaming, know where the shops are, and play for the win, then you aren't going to hit 40 AC on first epic level.

That's how I'd define powergaming. Playing for the win, rather then for the character.

Item properties aren't OOC, even if their descriptions are, and few characters want to come second in fights.

I would say it's bad RP for a character with more intelligence than a tomato to do anything but trawl shops for good kit.

Compare and contrast to anyone who has a hobby or profession dependent on equipment: they'll all obsessed by it.

Quote:

and own six or seven outfits on the philiosophy of "My character needs them to beat other people", rather then, "My character would aim for these".

I see that as a form of defense. If I live in the world where powerful mages can kick my behind and use my blood for some alchemical experiment, I rather have a robe of SR 32 in hands and many other tricks.

Uberuce wrote:

Compare and contrast to anyone who has a hobby or profession dependent on equipment: they'll all obsessed by it.

Freakin' A , yes.

Ever talk to a real audio freak about their gear? Speakers with 10 drivers made of titanium, 200 pound MonoBlock Amplifiers that require their own dedicated AC circuit, and vinyl turntables with air bearings and $5000 Rosewood pickups?

Ever go to a "Star Party" where geekish amateur astronomers show off their telescopes for the public? Some of which arrived at the field towed in their own trailers, require a 10 foot ladder to reach the eyepiece, and can see the Horsehead Nebula in fine detail?

You could say the same about Bass Boats, Vintage Motorcars or Tuners, Woodworking, RC, Home Theatre, Guitars, Skis, you-name-it. You aspire to be the best [fill-in-the-blank] but don't want to make the effort to own the best tools of your trade? I think not.

Uberuce wrote:

Item properties aren't OOC, even if their descriptions are, and few characters want to come second in fights.

I would say it's bad RP for a character with more intelligence than a tomato to do anything but trawl shops for good kit.

Compare and contrast to anyone who has a hobby or profession dependent on equipment: they'll all obsessed by it.

I agree with Ruce ... if your profession and life depends on it, you're going to give a damn.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

There's a good chance that unless you are powergaming, know where the shops are, and play for the win, then you aren't going to hit 40 AC on first epic level.

Theres also a good chance you will be dead by then. I think 40ac is a must at epic levels, and then some.

Theres a good chance to hit 40 AC long before epic, easily. Often enough +4 loot is sold at shops easily accessible. I find your formula quite funny though. Theres a good chance you die rather quick without 40 AC in epic areas.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Selvec Darkon wrote:

There's a good chance that unless you are powergaming, know where the shops are, and play for the win, then you aren't going to hit 40 AC on first epic level.

Theres also a good chance you will be dead by then. I think 40ac is a must at epic levels, and then some.

I spent a good part of my WM's life with under 40 AC and did fine.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

There's a good chance that unless you are powergaming, know where the shops are, and play for the win, then you aren't going to hit 40 AC on first epic level.

Really? I wouldn't call myself a powergamer - I can't build and I have no idea about gearsetting - but all of my characters (except Amenia who only goes out with RP stuff) easily managed to get that 40 AC by 21.

Heaven knows I should likely be the last to comment....buuuuuut.

1. Guys, simmer down the sarcasm a bit, she's genuinely asking for help.

2. Del is pointing out one thing that I encounter alot with my SD. If they spot you Sneak Attack Doesn't Work! That entire first part of the type of attack 'sneak' gets tossed into the canal if they can spot you so you're left trying to hit something with your pitiful str attacks. Critical attacks don't happen often enough when you're trying to stay alive against something which deals out 30+ dam a hit against pitiful HP. It's the combination of crit and sneak that usually allows a Sneaker to do the most damage if they're not cross classed with something else so...it's hard if you get spotted.

3. Mythalling is your friend in this case Del though I think that the listen is what gets you seen more so than the spot. I've met people that swear by the ranks in listen since MS is usually much, MUCH lower than Hide ranks.

4. SD gear is...well it is what it is. I honestly didn't like half of the SD gear I found in the shops. It wasn't wow worthy. There was stuff in the rogue cave that I liked more and thought was more useful. Heck. The 1-5 level drop of a Ring of Hiding had more Hide on it than the level 10 SD stuff which I ...I really thought was hilarious. Funny in an ironic way, not sarcastic mind you.

5. Abyss creatures, Illithid lairs and such all have creatures which will spot an SD like they were gussied up in Christmas lights. Del..you didn't really try to solo that place? I'm sure you took a party. I tried to solo it once out of curiosity. *coughs* Not doing that again in life.

6. If I had anything to as for the SD stores for improvements...it would be additional cloth armors. Never could figure out an SD or Rogue class in some of the mail and plate sold there. It was...like selling a bra in a men's clothing store. Something did not compute. However that is a personal opinion and just that. If there are rogues and SD that take full advantage of plate, kudos to you!! You have superior building skills.

mythaling yes. I am searching for spellcrafter for bijoux. Because my armor and cloak cannot take more mythaling.

And thanks Colanah. :wink:

Well, since we are discussing sneaking equipment: I did peek at some level 10 SD gear showed to me, and as a non-SD'er ranger who likes to sneak too, I am green of envy. True, we have our nice +24 hide spells, but thats about it. The best + hide/ms gear i have seen that is intended on Rangers has been +3. Then again, I havent snoped too much around yet. True, when I eventually take rogue and UMD dump there are more items, but should I go for a pure dex ranger, i would be bumraped item wise.

SD's have just fine equipment, compared to many other classes anyway.

If they've adequate skills to repeatedly spot you, you're gonna die as a sneak.. thats life if you don't build a balanced fighting suit, HIPs after all is hiding. Hiding only works till something can see you.

Between UMD, Epic dodge, the awesome pieces of SD10 gear, you can really create quite a kit of tricks.

Remember you're a rogue. Play like one. Run away, use traps, tactics.. and be prepared.

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