AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Since according to the PHB, heal immediatly ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, 'confused', dazed, dazzled, deafend, diseased, exausted, fatigued, 'feeble-minded', insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisioned.

How would that effect my character who is insane due to using the Shadow Weave?

I shouldn't imagine it would do anything, maybe temporarily relieve the symptoms *shrugs*

The definition says it immediately removes those effects, permantently , even insanity caused by a blow to the head.

That's what WotC says, anywho.

Regards,

FA_Frey_XC wrote:

The definition says it immediately removes those effects, permantently , even insanity caused by a blow to the head.

That's what WotC says, anywho.

Regards,

If it did, the next time you try to use the Shadow Weave you're back to square one anyway.

Its quite simple: If you want Heal to remove your chars insanity, it will. If you dont wnat Heal to remove your chars insanity, it wont.

What QPR said. Still, I'd personally make it a lot harder for myself to lose that kind of insanity. A month on a couch at the Salandrans, regular draughts of heal and restore potions, meditation, stuff like that. But, yeah, whatever you want, really.

I have no "official" source to quote for this thought, but I've read many, many books of a fantasy nature, and often times something that was inflicted by magical means, especially if it's unusually powerful magical means, can't be undone through the mundane magical ways that other such things can be. So I do believe that you could RP that what was done to your character is beyond what the healing everyday can do, or is beyond healing it permanently. So perhaps your character might be clear of the madness for a few minutes or hours but it keeps creeping back, or even that each time you get healed the clarity lasts for shorter and shorter periods until it's no longer there at all. Just a thought, but it seems to me for every rule in fantasy there are always several exceptions and always several more being introduced by people who just want to ignore one of the rules for good reason. I doubt anyone here would begrudge you should you chose to create a special circumstance regarding your character's brand of madness so long as it makes sense.

I agree completely.

Just define your character as sane and then the problem vanishes.

For example: Va is sane. Thus no magical power can fix him since there's nothing wrong with him. He's just the way he is.

Insanity can be a spell effect, I believe its referring to that effect not an actual natural development.

Besides Heal in NWN doesn't fix any status effects like it does in PnP, just fixes hit points.

Anyway, I've RPed heal fixing damage, but being like accelerated normal healing, you get gashed, you gobble one, you get a scar, its ultra-fast magic healing, but always keep a regeneration item around or on my PC's to have the left over scar-tissue be repaired.

If its a developmental flaw, or derangement that is naturally occurring, Heal will not fix it in my opinion, just like Raise/resurrect won't fix people who die naturally.

In standard tabletop, getting someone to cast a Heal spell on you is a big deal, and if it's done by an NPC you can likely expect to spend a good chunk of your gold savings on it. On Amia, Heal spells and potions are so common that it just doesn't seem right to apply what's in the PHB.

For extraordinary problems, I'd much rather see extraordinary solutions. If you have a problem that can be solved in a few seconds by the nearest cleric, then you've pretty much killed any RP that situation can bring.

heh. Amia relates to drugs. Us Amians tend to develop a tolerance to such inflation and uberness that it is no longer as potent

Not to mention that Amia is -the- area in the world with the highest usage of speed *snickers*

QPR wrote:

Its quite simple: If you want Heal to remove your chars insanity, it will. If you dont wnat Heal to remove your chars insanity, it wont.

Simple and true. ::nods::

The Cobbit wrote:

In standard tabletop, getting someone to cast a Heal spell on you is a big deal, and if it's done by an NPC you can likely expect to spend a good chunk of your gold savings on it. On Amia, Heal spells and potions are so common that it just doesn't seem right to apply what's in the PHB.

For extraordinary problems, I'd much rather see extraordinary solutions. If you have a problem that can be solved in a few seconds by the nearest cleric, then you've pretty much killed any RP that situation can bring.

Totally agree.

I really doubt heal pots would do anything to you in regards to insanity via the Shadow Weave though. That's just.... too easy.

The following is copyright wizards of the coast material, quoted from the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 supplement "Book of Exalted Deeds"

Heart’s Ease
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-
Affecting]
Level: Beloved of Valarian 3, cleric 3,
Pleasure 3
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One creature/level
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
Heart’s ease cures emotional wounds in
the same way that heal wipes away physical
ones. The subjects are cured of any
fear effect, despair effect (such as the
crushing despair spell), or similar mindaffecting
condition, excluding charms
and compulsions (such as charm person,
dominate person, and similar spells). It
removes any lingering psychological
effects of torture (including the increased
effectiveness of torture devices,
as described in the Book of Vile Darkness).
It cures confusion and insanity, restores
2d4 points of Wisdom damage (but not
permanent Wisdom drain), and leaves
the targets feeling refreshed and at
peace.

I posted this spell without copyright permission because this spell *PUBLISHED BY WOTC* -WOULD NOT EXIST- if heal were meant to "wipe away" mental wounds. I hope it is fair that such a reference is legitimate in a discussion of WOTC's intentions. As a pen and paper player, i fell in love with this spell as a cleric. In my humble opinion, similar magic should be available as you see fit as a player.

Dungeons and dragons is a game about raiding dungeons to kill monsters, to get loot and xp. We have adapted it as a game with realistic worlds and complex stories to become far more than its original designers intended.

The PHB is a tool for outlining a game mechanical system for combat. Consequently, "insanity" is defined as a technical term in the DMG, as a status effect on a player. Heal removes that status effect.

If a cleric played by a whiny twelve year old complains because they couldnt end your story arc with a level six spell, feed them to the drow -_-'
They're always hungry....

It would be great fun trying to find an Exalted cleric to cast it.

isnt that book of exalted deads, a non-fareun book? IE it doesnt apply to Amia?

fjook wrote:

Since according to the PHB, heal immediatly ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, 'confused', dazed, dazzled, deafend, diseased, exausted, fatigued, 'feeble-minded', insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisioned.

How would that effect my character who is insane due to using the Shadow Weave?

Now, if we highlight a good KEY of what Spellresitance is...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance wrote:

Spell Resistance
Spell resistance is a special defensive ability. If your spell is being resisted by a creature with spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) at least equal to the creature’s spell resistance for the spell to affect that creature. The defender’s spell resistance is like an Armor Class against magical attacks. Include any adjustments to your caster level to this caster level check.

The Spell Resistance entry and the descriptive text of a spell description tell you whether spell resistance protects creatures from the spell. In many cases, spell resistance applies only when a resistant creature is targeted by the spell, not when a resistant creature encounters a spell that is already in place.

The terms "object" and "harmless" mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless. In such a case, you do not need to make the caster level check described above.

May. Or, may choose not to.

You can attempt to spellresist any spell you wish. Thus, HEAL cannot cure what you don't want to let it. Mostly by Amain lee-way, since in theory you could be forced to be HEALed if a spellresist fails.

fjook wrote:

isnt that book of exalted deads, a non-fareun book? IE it doesnt apply to Amia?

I think you can use it, it'd just come under the same rules as other PnP stuff.

All in all, it's best to not overdo the PnP stuff. On Amia, heal simply gives you back all your HP. Translate that to whatever you want, but don't go:

"//You really didn't win that PvP, because that heal I chugged really removed that daze effect."

Kjetta wrote:

All in all, it's best to not overdo the PnP stuff. On Amia, heal simply gives you back all your HP. Translate that to whatever you want, but don't go:

"//You really didn't win that PvP, because that heal I chugged really removed that daze effect."

That's where the need permission for PnP stuff comes in.
Anyone tying to argue that OOCly is fighting an uphill battle, sine one can empirically reply "You were still dazed, therefore it did not remove the effect."

*puts on mischief trousers*

"//You didn't really win since I Dominated you and wouldn't have let you drink the Mindblank that removed it"

*runs away giggling*

Uberuce wrote:

*puts on mischief trousers*

"//You didn't really win since I Dominated you and wouldn't have let you drink the Mindblank that removed it"

*runs away giggling*

That should really be fixed.

Healing + spells = failure.

It's a concept that was never thought out well from a "role play" perspective. Works perfect in hack and slash DnD though.

Galenson wrote:

Healing + spells = failure.

It's a concept that was never thought out well from a "role play" perspective. Works perfect in hack and slash DnD though.

To be fair, it's not something that you really need outside your little dungeon crawl that often. And you're also not likely to run into a whole bunch of epic clerics ready to cast Heal to fix a scratch while fifty epic paladins wait to help you up.

Which is why I said it fails in a "role play" environment.

You know sometimes, I get a bit ummmmm.. meh.. when rping healing. The powerful spells of a cleric, can restore everything, from curses to daze, to all negative effects imposed. They can regenerate the skin, bones, organs, and everything. They can resurrect you from ash, they can heal your body from all sicknesses. So, someone comes to you close to death, beating up to jelly, and most of the clerics around will cast four spells and ta da!! You can go and kill huge beasts again. I think it sucks and destroys the RP. Because if you came to me for healing you are saying lets RP healing. If so, I will lay you down, i will investigate all the wounds, that you will have to describe. I wont remove arrows by magic. I will make a small surgery, I will remove the arrow and I will cast regeneration so the skin around it will get healed. I will ask, do you want a scar? no, so I cast restore and no scar is behind.

So, for me healing in Amia is an agreement between the people healed and the people healing. I will ask in all the steps, do you want this to be removed? You want to have difficulties walking? Or whatever. And in the end I advise time without hunting to heal and I usually give medicine to drink for some days to keep the body healing.

I hate the instant healing RP. If you want those, dont come to Angela Eire. I wont heal you as if it was a pass of magic and all the illness in the world are gone.

Now, insanity is a choice as well. I can mend your brain back with spells in a long and painful section. But, the mind is something quite curious and sometimes it rebels and dont want to be fixed. Traumas that can make you crazy are not physical. A cleric cannot restore emotional damage.

Delarwyn wrote:

A cleric cannot restore emotional damage.

Actually, they can >.>

But that's apart from the point - if they want to RP it wit no magic (which is what I often do) then that is fine.
However, I don't think it would be OOC for another character to point out that said cleric can bring someone back from the dead fully unharmed, or immediately heal the damage of a hundred longsword strikes through magic, ad then ask why you aren't using magic ICly.

That said, it is nice when everyone involved just uses suspension of disbelief to ignore that part.

Well, explain me what spell can possible make someone feel great about themselves and not paranoid about the idea of being taken by demons, for example?

I think therapy yes, but you can regenerate the brain as much as you want and make all the chemicals go into balance and such, but somethings you cannot do with magic.

The second part I didn't understand well your point. By the way it is time for Amenia and Angela meet each other

Implosion

Blow them up so they no longer feel.

Delarwyn wrote:

Well, explain me what spell can possible make someone feel great about themselves and not paranoid about the idea of being taken by demons, for example?

Plenty of spells for that. Heroism, Aura of Courage, Modify Memory, to name a few.

Not a problem in NWN, though, since it's not represented in mechanics.

Whatever you want it to do.

Rules are nice. But in DnD, they are only guidelines. The only restriction in DnD is your imagination, and perhaps the DM.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Whatever you want it to do.

Rules are nice. But in DnD, they are only guidelines. The only restriction in DnD is your imagination, and perhaps the DM.

The latter is usually somewhat more restrictive than the former.

Delarwyn wrote:

Well, explain me what spell can possible make someone feel great about themselves and not paranoid about the idea of being taken by demons, for example?

I think therapy yes, but you can regenerate the brain as much as you want and make all the chemicals go into balance and such, but somethings you cannot do with magic.

Can't do with magic? Why no, especially if you can reach into someone's mind with spells like Mindrape? And there are plenty of examples of spells that can - Iron listed a few, but you could also try Heart's Ease, and I'm sure if you look through the books (I just skimmed the Book of Exalted Deeds) you could find more.

Whether they should or not is another matter, but the fact is that it can.

Delarwyn wrote:

The second part I didn't understand well your point. By the way it is time for Amenia and Angela meet each other :P

The second was me blabbering on about how I prefer to RP it rather than click the "magic solves this" button. :D

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