AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

((I've no idea how feasible this is, any of it. Let me start by putting that out there. If it is in some fashion, this will be begged for in the future in a place on B that's being considered for such.))

Alright loves and beloveds. Tiny bit of help here is being begged for. An idea was proposed for that place we all know and love, Amia Forest.

These are among two proposals that arose during the Glade/Grove/Winya meeting (mind please, Winya didn't make it).

While it's no replacement for guarding the forest, a little bit of aid to give a visual impression that Rangers/Druids mean business would be nice. The thoughts have been proposed for two things.

Golems made of earth, wood, clay and even water as well which would be posted at the entrances to Amia forest. Stone to the west among the little ruins to blend in. Wood among the area to the north by the spiders as well as to the south towards Bendir.

Golems of this fashion were suggested in lieu of Elementals as suggested by others. Primarily for the reason highlighted here.

Nekhy wrote:
:arrow: Druids are tied to the planes in some ways and understand the elemental realms better than most others that dwell on the prime. The spells they use are drawn from the elemental planes, and they can summon elementals to their aid or even change into one as they progress in ability. They do this with care and caution, knowing that to bring an elemental being away from it's home plane is to inflict instant pain and anguish upon it and in many cases render it insane from the experience. They also know that the prime is composed of all of the elemental planes and aspire to maintain the balance of these. For this reason, they don't want non natives to live on the prime as they don't fit into that life cycle, yet most will not actively seek to hunt out anything non-native.

For the node, well this is the trickiest. It's the prime entry into the forest and a busy one at that!

ICly it cannot be moved because it is locked into a 'bloodline of the earth' or leyline and truly there are enough of us camped by it that a move should not be needed even if that could happen.

The other thought were Ranger towers or Blinds. I'm almost certain I saw those before but possibly not in this game. Nothing really huge (hopefully), just something like a platform up in trees along the way or at everyone's favorite camping place that can be accessed by a rope or so but still let the forest be visible. I'm really not sure how viable this is to do since I don't module build and it seems like this would be really difficult.

This is inspired by our favorite little tree monkeys Elda and Baralor.

For either project, ICly there would be a call for donations of both gold and material to fall upon the alter of the holy and powerful Cluckzilla from whom the eggs might be rich....or rotten if not properly appeased.

*tosses out the thought bowl and drops in two cents* Come fill it!!

. . .

Why?

Don't we have enough NPC fortresses already on Amia? What warrants one of the few remaining common spots for people to gather to be turned into yet another?

I'm inclined to agree. The forest is a dangerous place, hedged between untamed wilds full of ravenous beasts and an ever encroaching civilization that threatens to cut it down. To NPCs, it's just not worth it to guard such a large area.

That's a player-character job. Be adventurous. Stand up to the man, etc.

If there are consistently PCs here to guard the area, then NPCs are not needed. Congratulations, you're doing your job!

Most of those PCs are not powerbuilds, and even more often low levels only there to RP. The camps people set up keep getting disrupted quite often by kitted out powergamers and senseless forced PvP.

There is also the problem that even if we defeat the troublemakers, they come back.

This would assure that the RP hub of the forest, around the crystal would be free and protected, while those who desire PvP could just move to the secluded areas of the forest which are unwatched.

We don't need to have the whole forest guarded, just the area around the crystal node.

*considers that and says simply*

If NPCs by the outlook of what's been said here, do not feel that standing around out in a forest is worth it, then that negates what has been stated before about Roadwardens.

They feel it's worth it and possibly enjoy the outdoors. I don't know. I haven't chatted with one ICly but three times and never long enough to get into the personal backstory of each one before they had to go.

Also it was not a request for human NPCs to do such a jb. This was not a request for a 'fortress'. There was already IC discussions about a giant wall around the forest with gates and it was shot down universally.

Unobtrusive blinds in the forest or disguised creations blessed by druidic powers or mythals and were made from natural elements was discussed. This is about the feasibility of them at the entrances to the forest, not just the node.

RPing climbing a tree is fine in some areas, we'll just keep doing that if blinds cannot be done. However for the golems, there is already IC discussion about if creating such is feasible without trampling on druidic/ranger codes. But we wished to know about the cost of such if it was possible.

Forests grow, they change. Truly much of the feeling of Amia forest is less a primordial forest than a well traveled and somewhat maintained park at times to me. Mind, just to me. To others it can feel like anything else. It has a very beautiful look which is a part of its appeal.

However again. Feasibility of this since we're shooting for aid at the check points without killing the aesthetics.

Elementals are more natureish than a golem will ever be. Sure, you're pulling a being out of a plane (that create the prime) to forcefully be here, but that's hardly an affront to the balance. They come and they get to leave after you unsummon them. With a golem, most protectors would actually hate them. The reason being that you're ripping souls to do this. A golem is animated by a ripped soul from an earth elemental and placing it into a foreign body. Golems are actually something a lot of protectors are taught to destroy, like aberrations, undead, etc.

I actually don't really care for the idea of a NPC elemental or golem being in the forest by itself. But if they did place one, Elemental is the natural choice for nature folk. It would make much more sense.

That said, I'd much rather see an NPC Druid or Ranger than either of those two. That is, if this was approved.

Towers or Blinds, Willow would be way against. I wasn't really there at the time this was discussed I don't think. It would make more sense, like you said, for there to just be a transition to go up a tree as if the Druid or Ranger or whoever simply climbed it. I dunno though, it might make for lag since it's a large map with lots of NPC animals, the rangers by the Grove gate, job system NPC's and Roadwarden. But the dev. team would know better than me. It would be a nice little thing if it didn't make for lag though I suppose.

Although I wouldn't mind a random Ranger or Druid pair or two out in the forest, I do have to agree with Leggomi. The forest is dangerous and that's how it should be. We're there to keep people safe, the forest itself safe, keep people from over hunting, keep people from logging without permission, etc. I like that it's mostly us, it makes it funner.

What we should really be doing though, I feel, is do things like Eldainia, a few other folks from the glades and me with Willow have been doing (with the aid of certain DM's sometimes!). That is, making player run plot/events and DM run plot/events. That sparks interest in protector RP, makes it fun for players and makes people want to make one and become a part of it all.

Kudos to you, Raven (colanah), for taking it upon yourself to try and create fun RP for this player base. It keeps the players playing and brings in new ones. -THAT- is what we need. The leaders of the nature factions can take this however they like, but take a page from that book so that your factions don't die and Grove's are still around for protectors to RP in. Salvage the groves while they still can be. Groves play a vital part in protector RP and it's a damn shame we don't get a strong sense of that on Amia due to inactivity.

colanah wrote:

*considers that and says simply*

If NPCs by the outlook of what's been said here, do not feel that standing around out in a forest is worth it, then that negates what has been stated before about Roadwardens.

Your post is not a simple statement, btw. Makes that emoted bit come across as extremely snide.

The Roadwardens aren't really concerned about the forest, and only marginally concerned about the PCs who go through it. Their name suggests what they're really interested in. I'm getting the impression I'm going to have to spell it out for people because there is some serious thought-failure occurring.

Otherwise, good initiative. I think if you pick it apart a bit more and realize certain limitations and expectations, you may have a pretty good idea.

Personally, I dislike the fact that the grove is in such a central location, and that the locals extend their warding influence so far. Walking through a forest should be scary, dangerous experience. It's a forest, after all. The grove ought to have been located where the Duir is, in the first place. Druids generally don't want to have anything to do with people, after all.

This is just a general rant, not so related to the topic at hand!

Zante wrote:

This would assure that the RP hub of the forest, around the crystal would be free and protected

Not, it would assure that a selected group of people would be allowed to have their forest picnics without having to worry about the IC intentions of other characters and the encounters which come with them.

Seriously, wtf is this mentality with Amia?

We're adding NPCs all over the place, in hopes to preserve RP. Am I the only one who considers that reverse logic?

If we want to create and foster RP, then the NPCs should be taken out of the equation unless we have bucketloads of DMs that can frequently possess them in ways that interact with the PCs.

Why are the Defenders of Kohlingen never defending Kohlingen? Because they don't have to. There's a frigging NPC army standing by 24/7 just in case any creature of foul intentions would get near.

Why are there never any attacks on Ultrinnan? Because there's NPC guards of dh00m that put the Law Knights of Cordor to shame, constantly "protecting" the city.

Why haven't the Kelemvorites cleansed Tarkuul? Because the 231593 undead NPCs standing outside, for no apparent reason, would whoop their ass in less than two rounds.

Winya is impossible to access, unless you're a goody-goody elf. Hell. Evin Bendir Dale has its own army of hins, which makes it impossible to have an impact on.

The only thing that all of these NPC guards do, is stagnate RP.

The alternative to NPC guards constantly present, would be PC guards. Which there are, except, right now, they're doing a fictional job of guarding what already can't be taken, assaulted or otherwise forcefully influenced.

Imagine if all the NPCs were removed.

There would be a -need- for Kohlingen Defenders, who would actually Defend and guard Kohlingen, stirring up activity in an otherwise holier-than-thou ghost-town.

There would be a need for PCs to join the Winya Militia, in order to protect their elven settlement.

There would be a need for the Bendir Dale militia, the Tarkuul Militia etc etc.

PCs would get to influence each other, and each others settlements. PCs would be needed to fulfil the tasks which are already expected of them, yet they never do, since there's no need for it.

What's the worst case scenario?

At times when there's few PC guards on... sure, then the evil doers of Amia can seize the moment and attack Kohlingen. Heck, they could even hold it long enough to perform some dark... vile... ritual, including sacrifices... and BLOOD!

Soon enough, enough Defenders would arrive, and with them, every other do-gooder on Amia, at which the evil doers would get a sinister beating and be thrown out.

Wait... is that what they call dynamic conflict RP?

Right now, we have a shitload of PCs from various faction belongings, with various attitudes and dogmas, being in conflict with each other, in various places... except for the obvious ones, being the faction areas.

The conflicts of Amia are acted out, through PvP, by random occurances and in random areas, rather than being part of long term goals and ambitions, as well as co-operative plans and forces.

Those who might cry that "No NPCs guards would leave to mass PvP! We're not an arena server!" should take a serious look around, and notice the already massive amount of PvP that occurs everywhere, with the exception of faction areas, while still being part of RP. Progressive RP.

Perhaps I just need enlightenment. Enlightenment of what this server is really about.

Is it a social server, where everyone's expected to live happily ever after in peace?

Because that's what Amia has been struggling to become, and it's almost there.

We just need these extra golems in Amia Forest to make paradise in Faerûn complete.

A banite walking up to a picnick and proceeding to kill every single character there is not my idea of fun RP, most of the time it's not even RP at all.

Some people don't want to deal with random PK and attacks by ''evil'' characters when they are just sitting around somewhere talking.

I don't want to have RP in faction areas interrupted by PvP because some powerbuild decided to go on a rampage. Why should faction areas be attacked? And why should the safety of an area be dependant on which faction can field the better builds?

Zante wrote:

A banite walking up to a picnick and proceeding to kill every single character there is not my idea of fun RP.

Some people don't want to deal with random PK and attacks by ''evil'' characters when they are just sitting around somewhere talking.

I don't want to have RP in faction areas interrupted by PvP because some powerbuild decided to go on a rampage.

Wow.

Now... it sounds as if you're refering to a specific incident.

1. Those discussions are left out of the public forums.

2. Get your facts straight. If you're refering to me, which I believe you are, seeing how I play a Banite who was recently involved in PvP in Amia Forest, you should think twice, and hear twice, before you try to jump to conclusions.

Last time I was in Amia Forest, my character stood peacefully and quietly, doing nothing... until a group of nature people decided it would be good to suddenly buff their characters, start threatening and taunting my characters, thinking that they could get an easy PvP win.

Until... the nature people attacked my character, for little to no reason, and then got their asses kicked. Epicly.

But... wait, I'm sorry. You probably weren't refering to me, since I didn't randomly PK some character who was sitting around somewhere talking. Nor did I kill every single character present. Nor did I go an a rampage with a powerbuild.

Sorry.

EDIT: Lots of typos.

Some recent attacks (not just by you, mind) is what led the forest protectors to the IC decision to fortify the forest against similar scenarios. Since dozens of characters that hang out around the grove can usually not even lift a finger against troublemakers. We are just trying to get approval to do any of the proposed ideas, as nothing is really preventing from carrying them out IC, but we need the DM's to actually make the changes.

It's an IC reaction to IC events that does require OCC approval from the team, however.

I haven't attacked the Grove members or those who usually stay within Amia Forest.

But they've attacked me.

Either way...

Quote:

Since dozens of characters that hang out around the grove

You're not hanging around the grove, you're building camps with tents and cushions right next to the crystal node.

Why aren't you doing that type of RP -inside- the actual grove area, where you would be left alone? The Grove areas are some of the most well made and beautiful areas in the entire module.

Removing the NPC guards sounds like a good idea but if PC guards were needed to be on hand most of the time, when could anybody find any time to RP without hostile interactions within factions? If the number of NPC guards was reduced to a core amount guarding a point of significance e.g the palace in Cordor and perhaps a few mercenary types outside the richer merchant shops then a balance could perhaps be achieved.

Last edited by Zante on Fri, Jul 24 2009, 23:47 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Darth is just an example of the kind of characters even a bunch of adventurers usually doesn't stand a chance of defending against. Not really surprised you would be against NPC guards to keep down PvP, seeing you tend to pvp quite often.

And if NPC guards were removed from all faction areas, characters like Darth could likely take over every single one from the RPers.

Not going to talk about the fight that broke out as I don't know any more of it than what Jabari was told IC, only that it was decided we need a way to keep the likes of Dart out of the forest effectively.

NPC guards keep down on the kind of ''RP'' most prefer to avoid.

Rafanshki wrote:

Removing the NPC guards sounds like a good idea but if PC guards were needed to be on hand most of the time, when could anybody find any time to RP without hostile interactions within factions? If the number of NPC guards was reduced to a core amount guarding a point of significance e.g the palace in Cordor and perhaps a few mercenary types outside the richer merchant shops then a balance could perhaps be achieved.

I actually believe that Cordor would have to be an exception, since the NPC guards there are very much needed due to past experiences of mass PvP.

But in all other aspects of the module, I believe that the NPC guards are a curse for RP more so than a blessing.

Mr Mago wrote:

Quote:

Since dozens of characters that hang out around the grove

You're not hanging around the grove, you're building camps with tents and cushions right next to the crystal node.

Why aren't you doing that type of RP -inside- the actual grove area, where you would be left alone? The Grove areas are some of the most well made and beautiful areas in the entire module.

I have to agree with Mago here.

The part of the forest with the crystal area is a crossroads not part of the faction called "Grove". If you want Protector RP, you can keep doing as you are doing because... well, as protectors, if chaos break lose you will fight it.

Now if you want to have a "picnic" RP or a chat with friends, you have two options: a) do it safely inside the Grove without those 'annoying' interruptions from non-protectors/non-grovite players; or, b) risking interruptions making it outside at the forest.

What you guys ask would be the same as.. say.. drow players asking NPC guards for the Hollow Caverns so we won't have patrol RP with newbie/low level characters interrupted by bloodlusting surfacer PCs.

EDIT: Grammar that could have given a different meaning to a sentence than the one intended.

Zante wrote:

Darth is just an example of the kind of characters even a bunch of adventurers usually doesn't stand a chance of defending against. Not really surprised you would be against NPC guards to keep down PvP, seeing you tend to pvp quite often.

And if NPC guards were removed from all faction areas, characters like Darth could likely take over every single one from the RPers.

Not going to talk about the fight that broke out as I don't know any more of it than what Jabari was told IC, only that it was decided we need a way to keep the likes of Dart out of the forest effectively.

All I'm seeing here, is a shitload of ignorance.

Not too long ago, there used to be numerous powerbuilt Druid / Monk dragonshapers in Amia Forest, who often handed out vicious beatings.

I am dragged into PvP often, yes. The reason I have a powerbuild is because of that, not because I'm as inclined to initiate PvP.

And speaking of powerbuilds; Half of the server are powerbuilds today.

Not to mention, the most powerful powerbuilds are the ones you usually see on the good side. Paladin powerbuilds come to mind (have we already forgotten about the paladh00ms?), not to mention the Mystrans, which are cluttered with mages (which are, unquestionably, the most powerful classes, with or without a powerbuild, in PvP).

Why are you even making references to PvP events which you know nothing about? You can't make OOC claims about something that was told to your character IC, and then start an inevitable flame-fest on the forums.

I should perhaps also mention, that Amia Forest does not belong to the Grove, or any other nature people for that matter.

It's a very central area, with an essential crystal binding point within it.

You're welcome to enforce it as an area protected by the Grove, but do so with PCs, not NPCs.

And a small piece of advice would be for you guys -not- to be so quick to attack other PCs if you don't want PvP or IC hostilities interrupting your picnic RP.

I do believe nothing of what I said can be considered a flame, if so, I do apologize.

I just can't help but read your posts as... ''I don't like NPC guards as they keep me from PvPing''. Just the impression I am getting.

Mr Mago wrote:

It's a very central area, with an essential crystal binding point within it.

You're welcome to enforce it as an area protected by the Grove, but do so with PCs, not NPCs.

And a small piece of advice would be for you guys -not- to be so quick to attack other PCs if you don't want PvP or IC hostilities interrupting your picnic RP.

And again. Quoted for emphasis.

I don't like NPC guards because they keep people from indulging in long-term conflict RP that goes beyond random PvP encounters which occur "just because".

NPC guards should make sense. They are there because, like it or not, we can not be IG 24 hours, seven days a week to defend our city at a moments notice. However I do believe having less fortresses and having weakspots in the cities would be good. The places shouldn't have too many NPCs but just enough, aka the milita's of the areas/local watch not that major but good enough to deal with most spawns and an individual person that enters the city that should not be there.

Howver, If NPCs were removed that would mean that PCs could lead and run cities and towns more often and that is something that would be good to see, though I doubt it would happen.

I do however agree with you mago, that the amia forest does not need NPCs guarding it. I also agree with iron that the grove is in a bit too of a well traveled area for a druid's grove.

Zante wrote:

I do believe nothing of what I said can be considered a flame, if so, I do apologize.

I just can't help but read your posts as... ''I don't like NPC guards as they keep me from PvPing''. Just the impression I am getting.

It's more like "NPC guards stop people fromanything."

Anything, that is, that isn't sitting around a fire gaily talking and going about their lives, playing hero to situations that won't happen and then going home to a loving family.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Mr Mago wrote:

Quote:

Since dozens of characters that hang out around the grove

You're not hanging around the grove, you're building camps with tents and cushions right next to the crystal node.

Why aren't you doing that type of RP -inside- the actual grove area, where you would be left alone? The Grove areas are some of the most well made and beautiful areas in the entire module.

I have to agree with Mago here.

The part of the forest with the crystal area is a crossroads not part of the faction called "Grove". If you want Protector RP, you can keep doing as you are doing because... well, as protectors, if chaos break lose you will fight it.

Now if you want to have a "picnic" RP or a chat with friends, you have two options: a) do it safely inside the Grove without those 'annoying' interruptions from non-protectors/non-grovite players; or, b) risking interruptions making it outside at the forest.

What you guys ask would be the same as.. say.. drow players asking NPC guards for the Hollow Caverns so we won't have patrol RP with newbie/low level characters interrupted by bloodlusting surfacer PCs.

EDIT: Grammar that could have given a different meaning to a sentence than the one intended.

I have to agree with Dahlya here.

Last edited by colanah on Sat, Jul 25 2009, 0:59 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yossarin wrote:

colanah wrote:

*considers that and says simply*

If NPCs by the outlook of what's been said here, do not feel that standing around out in a forest is worth it, then that negates what has been stated before about Roadwardens.

Your post is not a simple statement, btw. Makes that emoted bit come across as extremely snide.

The Roadwardens aren't really concerned about the forest, and only marginally concerned about the PCs who go through it. Their name suggests what they're really interested in. I'm getting the impression I'm going to have to spell it out for people because there is some serious thought-failure occurring.

Otherwise, good initiative. I think if you pick it apart a bit more and realize certain limitations and expectations, you may have a pretty good idea.

Actually it wasn't snarky hence the addition afterwards that they seem to enjoy being outdoors and being in the forest. Since the thread about the roadwardens seemed to indicate that they do, I was reiterating it here. Also since the posts prior to the one I made here about them, stated twice that no NPC wants to be stuck out in the forest all day, I brought them up because apparently they -do- want to be there because they enjoy it in their own fashion.

Not snark, presentation of another declaration made in the other thread that seemed contradictory to the reasons given for NPCs to not be in the forest in this thread. *nods twice*

The Grove protectors are in the forest. The mountaineer is in the forest. They all have their various reasons for standing around there. Sadly the roadwardens happened to have been a more recent topic of conversation in this thread to bring up in negation to what was said about no one wanting to stand around there all day.

*nod to Gunz* Fang and Stone golems are created by druids. That was the inspiration for the initial idea for the forest golems in the first place. Not the ones powered by elemental spirits but ones just 'fueled' by mythals or possibly nature magic.

The ranger blinds were meant to be an unobtrusive suggestion since hunters often use tree blinds when hunting hogs and deer. They are made to blend into the surrounding forest to not tip someone off. It seemed like a nice idea.

Rangers are pretty good meleers but really and truly if faced up against cleric builds or other casters, even with decent self buffs it's sometimes like trying to stop a flood with a thimble.

*edited to show where calm tone gave way to disappointed one* To the first person that says 'your builds just suck' thank you for validating Amia as a hack'n'slash server.

Your builds just suck lololol

Seriously though, if you come to an RP server in a fantasy realm where players can play both good and evil, and expect to happily be able to live your lives in the wilderness, in a highly trafficked area of all walks of life, and then complain when people you don't like show up, I think you may want to consider another server, to be honest.

PVP happens. Evil characters happen. Drow happen. Banites happen. Druid haters that aren't even evil happen. We aren't here to make 50 happy little safe havens in every pot you enjoy RPing in that's not in a town. That's why player characters exist.

well.. I never thought about this or asked..but "protectors" ..are they "just" to protect the Grove?

If so, then screw the forest..its just their back yard XD and also as many have said in this post it "is" a free area with the port crystal and all.

But, if "protectors" are to aid the Forest and keep it alive, I think the tree loving chars as myself should perhaps just become stronger and communicate. I.E (better builds or larger groups to help enforce such)

Btw I agree with both sides, especially about NPC guards. But it all comes down to what amia is built on.. Everyone has different choice of "RP" and that includes

A) the people who absolutely hate PVP..I noticed even with good RP to pvp another it turns into a ooc fight lol. Some people like the fantasy world of "nothing bad happens and all live happily ever after" XD

B) the people who like the possiblity of anything *raises hand* I personaly like this kind of RP alot.

When it comes down to it, not all are reasonable or comfortable with "anything just happening without plan" so Ive found that if you find Rp'ers like your own, things usually work out well and all are happy. Also Ive learned some people contact a dm and work to plan an event or battle out. These are two ways which keep "most" happy about the server.

Back to the main discussion it was to be about *chuckles*
I would like to see Ranger posts up..that would be just a cool effect.. though I see on this post here that people expect the forest to be dangerous..(I didnt know this) so its new to me, but if that is what the forest is supposed to be then thats what it is *shrugs*. Perhaps we all have different ideas about the word forest and what comes to mind. To me there are dangerous areas of a forest and mystical along with peacefull areas. Again, I agree with Mago about the NpC's, but I would like to see some cool ranger posts up or something like that XD.

If the forest by DM's point is to be scary and dangerous, maybe put more visuals to that aspect and drop the lovely mystical music in that area.

Quote:

When it comes down to it, not all are reasonable or comfortable with "anything just happening without plan" so Ive found that if you find Rp'ers like your own, things usually work out well and all are happy.

But this is what roleplay *is*. Things going not according to plan, heh.

RP is you reacting as your character would in that environment. If things don't go to pan, how would your character react?
And usually it's not without plan, merely someone else's.

This is, of course, my own opinion.

RP = Roll with the Punches.

It's not Re-roll until it suits your Preferences.

I sooo am with yas on that.. but its not how it works on Amia XD..only to a certain extent.. Im just touching on what MR. Mago has said a bit is all. I have never thought him as a pvp killer without reason..even though ive not seen every encounter. But yes I agree totally about RP not being all planned out. Its how I RP 99% the time.

but back to the main talk LOL

Can we find out if that area of the forest is supposed to be "dangerous" ooooooooooooo

The point is, there are dangerous spots and there are more peaceful -looking- spots. But it's a forest, danger is just around the corner.

While we're at this, I actually really hate that the main Amia Forest map is a "safe zone" and there aren't aggressive animals and beasts. That's not natural at all, imo. That area might as well be a petting zoo. Silvanus weeps...

So I see this is going to be a No go on npc's..which I fine with XD ..infact lets drop the all..I would be fine XD

But it would still be coooooool for ranger posts there *smiles with dimples* hmm.hmm.. anyone? lol

I just know if NPC guards were placed in the forest I would not guard at all because I would not be needed but I would get more loot and gold because I would be hunting...so its a toss up do I need more loot and gold.

I would also know if no DMs are on 100% no fighting because of guard metagaming, and if a DM was on they wont let you just PM them saying "Evil nothing to do, can I rape the forest?" and let it fly, I know I tryed that 2-3 years ago.

*just cracks up at that*

For something to make the NPC's worthwhile, we need wars. Thats all i can really say.

*rubs Thyrliss' ears gently* Actually hon the OT was about the feasibility of ranger blinds or golems in the forest. It's so well traveled I guess it doesn't feel like a primordial spot to me.

Caraigh feels like untouched wilderness, Fogwood, Frozenfar wilderness, FoD. Yes they are likely as heavily traveled if not more so but the impression they give to me at least, is of a wild and dangerous forest.

Hmm...I'd have to agree on the Grove being elsewhere but I'm not of the Grove which is the other reason why the suggestion of 'Everyone go into the Grove to have your RP picnic' does -not- work.

Not everyone who is a nature PC is a Grovite. Mine is a Glade member as are more than a few others. Some nature PCs aren't a part of either or looking to join. While others might be alright going in and out of the Grove, mine won't for IC reasons.

*slam hammers the topic back on course*

Feasibility of blinds or golems please. PCs acting as guards, lovely. A Ranger would be up in a tree to keep watch the best way possible. A Druid might be up on a hilltop to overlook areas or listen to the voices of the wind.

I would also love any sources for why the druids would be against/for golems here in Amia but from source and not speculation if possible. Mostly because it would help to flesh out the RP for it going down in flames since that seems the way it is going.

I know a flesh or bone golem would be right out the window.

Also it's kind of odd that other places can request stuff be added and even barter to pay ICly in materials and gold for it do be fashioned by their PCs but when the nature factions actually get together and start talking about ideas and just want to get the -feasibility- of it being done, instead they catch flack about wanting more NPCs to do their IC jobs.

Yes a Golem or blind isn't a market stall or a brand new sparkling temple out on the edge of a town, but I really didn't think there would be this much discouragement about an idea. It's not like we said 'Oh yeah we want giant wood and stone and clay copies of Dorne kicking arse in the name of GEEEEEE-ZUS!'

*sighs softly* Both the golem idea and the blinds were hoped to be ...again...unobtrusive and something to add atmosphere and functionality I suppose. Just something there but not really so hugely glaringly obvious if such was possible. Not a mod builder but I was curious as were the other players that discussed this IG and IC if this was at all possible.

How about less guards everywhere and only powerful ones if controlled by DM.
I doubt all of the NPC guards train like crazy to become godlike. we only need a few truly powerful ones to stop the power gamers from killing everyone, or taking over the Island easily, the rest can be weak so they don't seem like all powerful gods in the flesh!

Edit:Typos.

I'm in agreement with Mago 100% on this. NPC guards contribute to stagnation which is why things very rarely change on Amia. If the Grovites are slaughtered and the Amia forest burnt to the ground, suck it up and move on. It's a healthy change and something this server needs.

Just imagine the changes if the Grove was burnt to the ground:
-New spawns
-More Dangerous Frontiers
-Expansion!

If you doubt change is good, just talk to the Kelemvorites. After they formally got their arses kicked and their temple burnt to the ground they moved to B, changed their entire approach to how the faction runs and I tell you now.... they couldn't be happier.

I hate the aspect of being evil and not being able to do anything about it. If I get beaten by PCs and my plan gets foiled I can live with that, infact it'll make me strive to do better next time... but the thought of not being able to do -anything- because you're outnumbered by stronger NPCs is a huge turn off. It forces you to ask DMs for even stronger NPCs to even out the scales which defeats the purpose of being a PC on the server.

NPC dh00m guards is a solution to a problem I've always disagreed with. Its aim was to keep the PCs tamed and it worked too well. I'm happy that measures are now being taken to cut down the amount of them (the Ultrinnan plague culling all the TS dragons for example)

Galenson wrote:

... but the thought of not being able to do -anything- because you're outnumbered by stronger NPCs is a huge turn off. It forces you to ask DMs for even stronger NPCs to even out the scales which defeats the purpose of being a PC on the server.

The thought that something exists which may be more powerful than your PC, or at the very least a challenge to your PC, defeats the purpose of playing on Amia?

EDIT: I know that sounds unfair, but it is kind of how I intepret that statement, because when I was a player, and even now, I never considered NPCs a force that was keeping me from doing what I wanted. Just a force keeping me from doing something suicidal.

Last edited by Galenson on Sat, Jul 25 2009, 4:19 AM, edited 3 times in total.

Yossarin wrote:

The thought that something exists which may be more powerful than your PC, or at the very least a challenge to your PC, defeats the purpose of playing on Amia?

I'm not concerned about that. There's players out there with better builds then I can cough up or slightly weaker builds who're better at playing them then I am as well as strong NPCs and NPCs en mass. As I said I'm fine with being beaten, its a learning curve and its healthy.

What I don't like is the combination of epic dh00m en mass which is what you get with NPC faction guards. For Cordor I can understand, it's the newb location and needs to be heavily policed but for Frontiers like the Grove, Winya and Bendir? What's the justification in making them NPC fortresses?

I'm not against the existence of NPC guards, they fill a vital role that PCs can't. But when they're outrageously powerful and -squash- any potential conflict RP, that's when it bothers me, especially when a massive DM plot is required (which not everyone can or be allowed to take part in) to ease the stagnation.

Damn. It was just an idea. People getting so pissy about this. Gee! Seriously. All we wanted was your approval or not. If you'd like the idea or not. Yes. A lot of good points. I may even be reconsidering this. But don't fight over it... We get it. Calm the "f" up.

Thanks for the opinions, comments, whatever.

Last edited by Gunz on Sat, Jul 25 2009, 4:23 AM, edited 1 time in total.

It really is as simple as what I said:

Golems deal with soul ripping. Frankly, soul ripping -is- quite an affront to the balance. We're dealing with the taking of souls here and the animation of an object with that soul. If a Druid or Ranger understood this, they might be against their creation in some shape or form. Elemental are real thing, actual being. Soul ripping vs. a sort of temp. slavery. What do you think they would chose?

Druids and Ranger deal with the divinely natural. Golems are not very natural, per say. They have more of an arcane feel, to me. That's why I think Elementals are what they typically chose. Divine powers allow them to summon these being through the powers of their gods. If you want a well made golem, you'll probably have to go to the weave knights for a proper one. Sure you can use things that look natural to summon them, but why not use the real deal? An actually natural being or an animated ripped soul?

Galenson wrote:

What I don't like is the combination of epic dh00m en mass which is what you get with NPC faction guards. For Cordor I can understand, it's the newb location and needs to be heavily policed but for Frontiers like the Grove, Winya and Bendir? What's the justification in making them NPC fortresses?

Winya is a full blown Elven city, those things are protected like crazy.

Fort Bendir Dale. Enough said.

The Grove is no fortress, but it is inhabited by powerful nature creatures (Elementals, animals etc.), Druids and Rangers. Besides, we're talking about Druids in one of their preferred realms here. Druids would be super deadly in PnP in this setting. This help represent that, if only within the Grove itself.

Galenson wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

The thought that something exists which may be more powerful than your PC, or at the very least a challenge to your PC, defeats the purpose of playing on Amia?

I'm not concerned about that. There's players out there with better builds then I can cough up or slightly weaker builds who're better at playing them then I am as well as strong NPCs and NPCs en mass. As I said I'm fine with being beaten, its a learning curve and its healthy.

What I don't like is the combination of epic dh00m en mass which is what you get with NPC faction guards. For Cordor I can understand, it's the newb location and needs to be heavily policed but for Frontiers like the Grove, Winya and Bendir? What's the justification in making them NPC fortresses?

I'm not against the existence of NPC guards, they fill a vital role that PCs can't. But when they're outrageously powerful and -squash- any potential conflict RP, that's when it bothers me, especially when a massive DM plot is required to ease the stagnation.

I agree with Galenson.

banneronin wrote:

Damn. It was just an idea. People getting so pissy about this. Gee! Seriously. All we wanted was your approval or not. If you'd like the idea or not. Yes. A lot of good points. I may even be reconsidering this. But don't fight over it... We get it. Calm the "f" up.

Thanks for the opinions, comments, whatever.

No need to be so aggressive. The point raised is being debated in a reasonable manner ... everyone is entitled to argue their opinions.

Forgive me if I'm wrong. Isn't there an armed, defended, racial-locked gate about 100 feet away from the amia forest crystal, with plenty of defenders?

Quote:

RP is you reacting as your character would in that environment. If things don't go to pan, how would your character react?

By moving some of the many grove defenders that just stand around into the forest where things actually happen is how my character would react.

Except the grove defenders are there to defend *the Grove*, and you are there to do the rest, as PCs?

Last edited by Zante on Sat, Jul 25 2009, 9:16 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yet we keep failing and getting beaten to the pulp by the bad guys we are supposed to keep out.

More so, if we actually do manage to kill them, nothing changes, they are back tomorrow.

Bad guys, let's fight them! Is not an effective solution, so the protectors are looking at alternatives. If approach A fails, would it not make IC sense for the characters to try another solution? As was posted in the first post, this is something we would actually do ingame, by gathering the resources, rping building the blinds, etc. It would be an IC effort.

...the alternative, clearly, is to purchase "invincible NPCs" so that your campfire parties may proceed in peace.

Gotcha.

Hidden Golems and Ranger Blinds/Towers

Who is online