AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Shrine did that... rped having some mages creating the golems, gather the resources, etc... now they got a bunch of invincible guards.

I agree with Mago and Galenson when it comes to smaller faction areas. I simply disagree when it comes to towns, though. Here's why:

Your PC is not special. My PC is not special. They're just skilled adventurers in a big world. They're not the centers of attention, and they can't do whatever they want. The Realms, and Amia, is a place where you're never the top dog. There's always something beyond your reach, someone who can squish you.

To me, the idea that random PCs can viably challenge cities and armies is ridicilous. I don't care how good of a commando you are: you just don't attack a Manhattan that, what's more, happens to be surrounded by walls.

You can easily level up to 30 in a few weeks. You can do it even faster, if you have no life. It's incredible short-sightedness to assume the hundreds of NPCs who've lived in Amia's various cities their whole lifes (which equates to OOC years, surely) wouldn't be, if not quite on par, at least close to your level.

I guess it's a matter of preference, to an extent. To me, a world where PCs run the show and NPCs are just inconsequential scenery is pretty stupid. In a Persistent World, your muscle isn't enough to make you a hero. But yes, I don't think that applies to a tiny grove of a few druids: if anything, I'd rather have its power reduced than increased.

Zante wrote:

Shrine did that... rped having some mages creating the golems, gather the resources, etc... now they got a bunch of invincible guards.

... No. They have 3, one of which is inside and sees almost no use. And they get beat up all the time. Seriously, Zante.

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You can easily level up to 30 in a few weeks. You can do it even faster, if you have no life.

Ouch. Harsh, man. It's not hard to level quickly here, even if you do have a life.

Zante wrote:

Quote:

RP is you reacting as your character would in that environment. If things don't go to pan, how would your character react?

By moving some of the many grove defenders that just stand around into the forest where things actually happen is how my character would react.

That is exactly what came to my mind reading this thread.

Anyway, overall and addressing the general debate, I don't have any real opinions on the exact terms of the OP suggestion, not really knowing enough about Elementals/Golems, or the feasibility of the 'hide' or 'blind', but as for the camp by the Crystal Node/alongside the path, I fully agree with the IC logic of it (not that any of us should be disputing the players logic in having their characters do that anyway......)

I can also see the points made about NPC guards 'nullifying' RP to a certain extent, but there are plenty of places without them out in the wild, and as for locales having to be defended, why would they not be? IC logic should never take second place to OOC 'convenience' except where things have to be constrained because of the game engine or to not have needlessly nit-picking changes forced upon the DM's & Devs. Yes, it happens when the plotline forces it (see Nes'ek, Benwick Hollow, Minmir Bridge, etc) and all to the good, but there are excellent reasons why major changes like that can only happen every once in a while, and only for the best of reasons for game balance and other myriad considerations).

We would have nothing like the Job System, or the Mythal Crafting System, or Amia B, or other new areas and things that make this Server so popular and unique if, for example, Amia Forest got burned down every time some Evil char or group had a good reason for doing so.....let alone every time some randomly Ebil character suggested do so to his randomly Ebil associates..... (or for that matter, the flip side of the coin, re: Tarkuul, for instance.....)

What I mean is, I suppose, we are already compromising 'reality' by such sweeping changes not being able to happen except rarely.........lets not ruin logic and immersion further because NPC guards, etc, hamper people RP-ing conflict in certain limited areas....

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and as for locales having to be defended, why would they not be?

They arrrrrrrreeeeeeeee

By Peeeeeeeeee Ceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

*flails hopelessly*

Tormak if they get golems can I have some too please. I probably have around the combined wealth of the grove.

if the reason is they have better builds and people are geting stoped,rebuild so your stronger you guys have a nice shop to gear you out abit.

and the "kill them, nothing changes, they are back tomorrow." thats true but it works both ways, they kill the defenders you lost nothing and can be right back as well.

colanah wrote:

Not everyone who is a nature PC is a Grovite. Mine is a Glade member as are more than a few others. Some nature PCs aren't a part of either or looking to join. While others might be alright going in and out of the Grove, mine won't for IC reasons.

As has already been mentioned:

Amia Forest is a big area, and if you want to have your forest picnics in peace, it's easy enough not to put up your tent camps right next to the crystal node.

The nature type of characters aren't the only ones who want to stay within Amia Forest, or travel through it. If you insist on having flower-picking gatherings right next to the crystal node, you'll have to deal with characters of all types and alignments coming through and interacting with you as well.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

and as for locales having to be defended, why would they not be?

They arrrrrrrreeeeeeeee

By Peeeeeeeeee Ceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees

*flails hopelessly*

Yes, but the NPC's in question are Rangers/Druids..... they care about Nature/Balance, not just defending the perimiter of their own camp. Same with, for instance, the Kohlingen Defenders (as they were mentioned earlier in the thread) who are Paladins, etc, not just a 'City Watch', so they are going to come out of there and try and make the world a better place. They are Defenders from Kohlingen, not simply of Kohlingen (and I realise that in that instance we are talking about PC's, not NPC's but the only difference is an OOC one, to all intents and purposes, and the principle of one ethos and the other is essentially the same).

The Defenders of Kohlingen was indeed started as Defenders of, not from, Kohlingen.

In a perfect D&D setting we wouldn't be playing NWN. We'd be playing PnP with a small group of PCs and one persistent DM.

To some extent, you give up the ultimate RP realism (because it's simply not possible with NWN as the means and 200+ active characters as the cause) in order to get a better, more progressive RP environment and experience for everyone.

Btw. If the nature people who don't want to be affiliated to the Grove, nor the Glade still want a forest of their own, where they're guaranteed to be left alone for shiz and giggles, I know of a small forest on Amia B which no one pretty much ever visits.

Mr Mago wrote:

colanah wrote:

Not everyone who is a nature PC is a Grovite. Mine is a Glade member as are more than a few others. Some nature PCs aren't a part of either or looking to join. While others might be alright going in and out of the Grove, mine won't for IC reasons.

As has already been mentioned:

Amia Forest is a big area, and if you want to have your forest picnics in peace, it's easy enough not to put up your tent camps right next to the crystal node.

The nature type of characters aren't the only ones who want to stay within Amia Forest, or travel through it. If you insist on having flower-picking gatherings right next to the crystal node, you'll have to deal with characters of all types and alignments coming through and interacting with you as well.

Ummm........thats like saying "Amia is a big server, and if you want to have have your PvP, there are plenty of places you can find it, rather than presenting yourself in front of people wanting little more than to talk among themselves in-character."

I don't think they are there to pick flowers....I think they are representing the IC concerns of their characters, regarding travellers through the forest.

The place has been plagued over time by players going there only because they can force a reaction from those who are duty-bound to react to the behavior of those characters.

Last edited by Sven on Sat, Jul 25 2009, 10:19 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Cross roads generally shouldnt be ruled by one single faction imho. If they wish for it, it should be guarded by PCs. Time/effort should be spent by the PCs willing to invest in it rather then simply RPing getting components and building guards which from what i am getting, either have to be very very strong to deter PCs or have the area set to no-PvP.
Its not a very elegant solution and it nullifies RP. a lose-lose situation i feel.

The important thing to note is that amia forest (not the grove area) is a cross road. Bendir dale for example has NPCs but only applies to the town itself. Fights do happen but everyone has the freedom to do it outside the gates. Its exactly the same in Amia forest actually. Fights do occur, outside the grove walls.

Build, contrary to popular belief has not as heavy an influence in a battle as numbers and tactics. In a war of attrition, someone has to leave the area. with potentially infinite heals and raise available, the one with the superior numbers should win.

Setting up camp at a cross road brings about potential dangers and rewards. Perhaps a friend could be made from a traveler, or an enemy. Its part and parcel really and is/should be a win-win scenario. (imho)

And in the end, PvP shouldnt be a problem at all with the rules amia has set up. it requires consent from both parties and if one is polite and nice, nothing should erupt no?

Brown Blur wrote:

Ummm........thats like saying "Amia is a big server, and if you want to have have your PvP, there are plenty of places you can find it, rather than presenting yourself in front of people wanting little more than to talk among themselves in-character."

I don't think they are there to pick flowers....I think they are representing the IC concerns of their characters, regarding travellers through the forest.

The place has been plagued over time by players going there only because they can force a reaction from those who are duty-bound to react to the behavior of those characters.

Welcome to the grim fucking reality of Amia.

I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but this isn't any -one- individuals tailormade pleasurepalace of online relief.

You should try playing Darth sometimes.

He's "plagued" everywhere, and doesn't have to do shit to provoke it.

If you don't want to RP in a world where conflict is a never ending story, then you should go to a social server where you can interact all day long, without having to potentially PvP.

@Brown: That's what you accept when you create a character with duties. You should expect people to bait you.

The between what Mago said and what you said is this: I don't see players complaining that there should be NPCs to stop peaceful conversation and picnics, whereas there are players suggesting there should be NPCs to protect said peace and stop other players' RP.

The forest is a dangerous place, and I don't see why NPCs would have the interest - let alone the resources - to guard a spot that anyone can and will teleport to, and that isn't even very close to their grove. The grove isn't a city, and I daresay it's population is mostly made up of PCs. The few NPCs that do exist need to eat and sleep, too. And if you kill them, there isn't an inexhaustible mass to draft more from, as is the case with the thousands and tens of thousands of citizens in large cities.

Mr Mago wrote:

The Defenders of Kohlingen was indeed started as Defenders of, not from, Kohlingen.

In a perfect D&D setting we wouldn't be playing NWN. We'd be playing PnP with a small group of PCs and one persistent DM.

To some extent, you give up the ultimate RP realism (because it's simply not possible with NWN as the means and 200+ active characters as the cause) in order to get a better, more progressive RP environment and experience for everyone.

Btw. If the nature people who don't want to be affiliated to the Grove, nor the Glade still want a forest of their own, where they're guaranteed to be left alone for shiz and giggles, I know of a small forest on Amia B which no one pretty much ever visits.

Ah, I didn't know that...perhaps they weren't the best of examples then, though I think the principle still stands somewhat, as they are going to look beyond their 'borders' to where help is needed.

.....and yes, its all a compromise, really......and there are plenty of things that we could say would add to 'realism' on Amia, but just arent worth the effort for what they would bring to the game (enforced food/drink/rest being an obvious and quick example). Because we aren't sitting all together with a DM, as you say, we have to allow for some things being 'less than realistic', if thats not overstating the issue.

Hmmm.......

Yes, but only if it's possible for me to build Optimus Prime.

Mr Mago wrote:

Brown Blur wrote:

Ummm........thats like saying "Amia is a big server, and if you want to have have your PvP, there are plenty of places you can find it, rather than presenting yourself in front of people wanting little more than to talk among themselves in-character."

I don't think they are there to pick flowers....I think they are representing the IC concerns of their characters, regarding travellers through the forest.

The place has been plagued over time by players going there only because they can force a reaction from those who are duty-bound to react to the behavior of those characters.

Welcome to the grim (censored) reality of Amia.

I'm sorry to have to break it to you, but this isn't any -one- individuals tailormade pleasurepalace of online relief.

You should try playing Darth sometimes.

He's "plagued" everywhere, and doesn't have to do (censored) to provoke it.

If you don't want to RP in a world where conflict is a never ending story, then you should go to a social server where you can interact all day long, without having to potentially PvP.

'Reality' is the last word I would use, grim or otherwise.

It's not? I see some people getting exactly what they want out of the place.....for as long as they are here anyway.......

Yes you do....you have to log in as Darth for it to happen.

If those players don't want to play on a Server where there are diverse attitudes and styles, then they should go to a PvP Server, or one without rules and regs where they don't have to be bothered with whether or not the other players they interact with are enjoying their behaviour, or where they don't have to put up with such nerdy things as people roleplaying.....

PvP and RP isn't mutually exclusive.

I don't know what other type of players there are, coming into Amia Forest that might cause such great despair.

But if they're PK'ing in a way, or to an extent, which isn't in line with the server rules, all you have to do is report them.

IronAngel wrote:

@Brown: That's what you accept when you create a character with duties. You should expect people to bait you.

The between what Mago said and what you said is this: I don't see players complaining that there should be NPCs to stop peaceful conversation and picnics, whereas there are players suggesting there should be NPCs to protect said peace and stop other players' RP.

The forest is a dangerous place, and I don't see why NPCs would have the interest - let alone the resources - to guard a spot that anyone can and will teleport to, and that isn't even very close to their grove. The grove isn't a city, and I daresay it's population is mostly made up of PCs. The few NPCs that do exist need to eat and sleep, too. And if you kill them, there isn't an inexhaustible mass to draft more from, as is the case with the thousands and tens of thousands of citizens in large cities.

Ummm.......why? Because there are some who just want to be disruptive?

I'm not part of the Grove, and don't have much of a vested interest in the OP suggestion, as such, but I'm more inclined to think the idea was not trying to stilt R/P but to represent it.

While I can see your point about manpower and resources, I have to disagree about the 'interest' aspect......these are Druid & Ranger NPC's after all......and the topic regarding a spot thats immediate to them, not even a distance away.

Mr Mago wrote:

PvP and RP isn't mutually exclusive.

I don't know what other type of players there are, coming into Amia Forest that might cause such great despair.

But if they're PK'ing in a way, or to an extent, which isn't in line with the server rules, all you have to do is report them.

Well, they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive (except in the case of some players) and in case I have given you the wrong impression about anything I have been saying above, I can understand that much of Darths r/p is conflict based and/or 'confrontational', and understandably so (he would hardly be representing Bane if it were otherwise).

It's not necessarily just PK-ing, or forcing a fight 'legitimately' though for the wrong reasons, its the 'chase me, chase me' nonsense, or pointless insults and baiting, or other behaviour that in essence 'breaks the rules' or is not desireable.

What could potentially result is that, the taunting and baiting still occurs but instead, the rangers/druids cannot smite the fella (If the area is set to no-pvp)

(Or if it isnt) PvP still occurs and they could cry out that the elementals wouldve stopped the fight/smote someone etc and generally, it just gets very messy and OOC.
Its seems abit like an IC protective bubble/excuse to negate the implications/RP of the other party if it doesnt suit one.

As it is, its pretty simple. Amia forest is a public place, a well traveled road. Its potentially dangerous as any town should be. If privacy is needed, a private place can be found, guards stationed. Making a crossroad a private/no pvp place is abit detrimental to the server ambiance imho.

If you are having IC problems with other PCs seek out IC solutions with other PCs.

Take it this way; PvP Is going to happen. PvP is a necessity unless you want to watch bunnies hopping in their DM plotted path all day. If you want to not get PvP'ed or insulted.. well.. go to the temple in Kohlingen and sit in a corner.

Now aside from that i dont quite understand what you mean brown. Are you saying you dont like your character getting into verbal fights? What evil person is NOT going to throw insults around?

...I find it hard to level up. And I do have a life. I've had my char for almost 6 months and still am level 22...

Eh. And I wasn't being aggressive, just pointing out the ones who were. We should be discussing this not arguing it. We're not a bunch of 50 year old women at the supermarket fighting for the last turkey. Are we?

If the whole thing cannot be done, then alright. I'm cool with it. Who cares now. It was just an idea, a suggestion. Now let's continue on with our lives.

jafman30 wrote:

.....What evil person is NOT going to throw insults around?

A subtly played one, perhaps?

Anyway, what I actually dislike in game is feeling like the other person isn't (as it should be) 'offering a share of some r/p' or that they are not just doing it purely for their own fun, but to annoy/disturb/disrupt the other player. Hiding that, as some do, behind 'playing an evil character' is lame, inept, and frankly, not r/p at all, to my mind.

*sighs*

I don't really see what evil has to do with insults. Of my various chars, the worst bad mouthing comes from a CG char, the few evil ones I have are exceptionally polite. Nor do I see why you have to be an ass to be evil, that just makes you an ass, not evil.

QPR wrote:

I don't really see what evil has to do with insults. Of my various chars, the worst bad mouthing comes from a CG char, the few evil ones I have are exceptionally polite. Nor do I see why you have to be an ass to be evil, that just makes you an ass, not evil.

Better worded than I managed to do!

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

*sighs*

Probably the most logical thing stated in this thread.

Truth is, some people come to Amia to experience an increased sense of control and a decreased sense of risk compared to their RL, while others come for the opposite.

Just don't get too involved with the people of your opposite group, and you're usually fine.

OK..I for one do not wish for that area to be set to a (non-pvp area) it makes things really lame and un fun LOL

I believe Cordor is set to such already which limits some RP situations.
Infact I recall being just oustide the city at the bridge near the bathhouse dealing with a RP situation and non- of us could attack each other. Both sides agreed to hostile do to the RP situation and we all had to walk outside of that zone to do it LOL. The thing that stands out from this situation was "yes" we all still had fun and rolled with the punches, but it was a small reminder of reality "hey we have to leave this area cause it wont let me hostile you" *facepalms*

So I believe what was asked in this post originally was for some visual aspects added to the forest for the characters that have good intentions for the place.. Screw NPC's lol I dont want them..and if they are to be put there, have it be for looks or just the option for a DM to posses it for small moments of RP. I honestly like things to happen wrong or good for IC situations of the forest.. All and all I "think" visual aspects are just being requested *smiles* not limitations or request of NPC's of uberness.

o o o .. What about some Tree imps?! not uber ones either..just for a visual add. That would be grand to see in the forests as you venture through

This thread is not so bad, everyone. Though Tormak, your comments legitimately made me laugh out loud.

I think one of the points Iron might be trying to make is one of the points Tormak made about the Underdark a long time ago.

Ultrinnan should really not be two minutes away from the Surface. Ideally, it wouldn't be. But it just takes too much damn space and effort to make a 100-area tunnel/maze from the Surface to the city.

The Amia Forest really shouldn't just be one or two or four areas. It's a HUGE forest. Rangers and druids shouldn't expect static guardians around anything except a Sacred Grove. Around huge, monster-infested forests they should simply patrol (as PCs) the area and attempt to guard it.

It's a really good point and there's not much to argue against it. As for the NPC guardians stagnating RP? I think a lot of people are overlooking the good things that NPCs do. They might stagnate some good RP, but they also stop tons of other horrible RP from happening. Like people blowing up cities every day. They might be pwnz0r and really hard to kill, but even Dorne (The Cordorian General) has been beaten by PCs before and it gives you a challenge to overcome.

I like the idea of the Blinds. Rangers would be able to hide in their element, especially ones with 18 dex modifiers. *cough*

Giving them the means to icly do so, and set things like ambushes for hostile PC's, would be fun, and good rp. If it's possible, I'm in favor of it.

As for NPC's...well, Tormak knows how well I do with Pvp and NPC's. Gimme a few more to deal with, and I might get banned. >.>

fireprooftroll wrote:

Forgive me if I'm wrong. Isn't there an armed, defended, racial-locked gate about 100 feet away from the amia forest crystal, with plenty of defenders?

Yes good Fire, and the NPC guards are there to ward the Grove and I wouldn't dream of asking them to move. That's their area of expertise.
Gunz, pardon this is a terminology/mythology conflict! *waves piece of paper* You're pulling source from 3.5, I'm thinking of mythology of Jewish golem. Hmm...the closest things I could find in the DnD realm were a few that really pushed the border of 'no'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus ... _&_Dragons)

Homunculus is one of them, Bogun is made in a similar fashion as a Homunculus but both calling for the blood of the creator so feel squicky.

The only other thought was Animate Object. It does not seem to call for any spirits or souls and it can be used from very small things right up to gargantuan.

TheUltimateSin wrote:

If you are having IC problems with other PCs seek out IC solutions with other PCs

Color me stupid but I thought that was the point of the OP?

Still would ask that a focus be put on the main question. Feasibility.

And since this seems to be getting missed hugely in the content of the game or this post, I will try to state it again a bit more strongly.

We are NOT looking for the hands of god or nature Dornes to come and save us from the bad guys. We ARE looking for the feasibility of creating Hides/Blinds or created creatures at the entrances of the forest to bring it atmosphere since that is the IC discussion our PCs had.

NPCs do not stop RP and if they do that's more than passingly saddening. There was a nice big juicy fight in the forest not long ago that waged right up to the gates of the Grove. NPCs didn't stop the RP or the effort of the PCs to do their jobs, unobtrusive beings (since golem or construct is causing terminology issues) wouldn't stop it anymore than someone getting killed in front of the mountaineer guy or the badgers.

Players aren't stupid. DMs won't be on all the time to take control of the Beings so PCs would still do their jobs both good and bad. Also outside of DM events or other PCs, Amia forest feels about as dangerous as a hangnail. It's beautiful, peaceful, restful and inspires people to go there to look around or talk because it's essentially Cordor with leaves like Bendir is Cordor with shorter people and better shops.

If you don't know why the camp is there IC, can't help you but calling it a picnic is condescending and wasn't asked for. Feasibility -was-. Also if the idea of Blinds/Hides worked for A ICly, as stated in the OP, there is a forest on B that such would be asked for as well.

The only times I will personally gripe about PvP is if someone right clicks attack or uses the player list if only because it glitches summons and some people who die, not because I got my arse painted across the forest roads. It sucks, I deal with it ICly and OOCly because *drum rolls then clangs* It Happens!

@ Colanah

The answer to that Bolded Question was on page one and then you Quoted it yourself with out realising the context in which it was written.

You -have- the grove for your atmosphere. Amia Forest is a seperate non-aligned entity. You can claim that area as much as you like, but it is a Forest and I find it truly odd that a group of Rangers and Druids already drawing immensely on Nature to sustain the magical/divine wards and wardens in the Grove would seek to place a further Burden of Task on Nature by creating Guards at all 6(?) entrances into one part of the Forest.

That does not strike me as serving the Balance. If i was Silvanus i'd fall you because you're seeking to turn nature into a veangeful pre-emptive force, with a retinue of servants. You're no longer serving nature and the balance, your making nature and the balance serve you.

Thats my "IC" take on it anyway.

Um.. most of us are not from the Grove.

You don't have to be part of the Grove to be in the Grove.

I have to admit my dislike for having NPC's elementals/golems/constructs around the Forest. That would seriously put a damper on conflict that can, a lot of times, actually be very fun.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind a pair of Druid/Ranger pairs. Maybe two pairs, tops. But, I'd say, put them somewhere less obvious and not in a super public part, like the crystal. The purpose would be more the flavor of spotting Rangers and Druids out and about. Much like the commoners in the city.

The blind, I just say, if anything, a transition so the scout (anyone, not just rangers) can "climb the tree". No need to build little tree houses or towers. That would be the more natural way. This, of course, can simply be RPed, but it'd be nice if it were possible.

colanah wrote:

Homunculus is one of them, Bogun is made in a similar fashion as a Homunculus but both calling for the blood of the creator so feel squicky.

The only other thought was Animate Object. It does not seem to call for any spirits or souls and it can be used from very small things right up to gargantuan.

These are constructs now. These are undoubtedly mage created animated beings. Though your right that constructs are not like golems with soul ripping, I till think protectors would aim to use elementals over them. Simply because they're real beings and not animated mage things. Simply my opinion though. But I do feel it's well back up since you see Druids with Elementals, not very often using Constructs or Golems.

colanah wrote:

[color=cyan]Players aren't stupid. DMs won't be on all the time to take control of the Beings so PCs would still do their jobs both good and bad. Also outside of DM events or other PCs, Amia forest feels about as dangerous as a hangnail. It's beautiful, peaceful, restful and inspires people to go there to look around or talk

The main map totally feels like that, I agree. I don't like that it does. It should take risk to travel that land. Screw safe zones, this isn't a park or petting zoo. I say make the main map hostile, with spawns and such. It would actually feel like your in a forest if that were done. I don't like that it's a safe zone at all.

MoshingChris wrote:

You -have- the grove for your atmosphere. Amia Forest is a seperate non-aligned entity. You can claim that area as much as you like, but it is a Forest and I find it truly odd that a group of Rangers and Druids already drawing immensely on Nature to sustain the magical/divine wards and wardens in the Grove would seek to place a further Burden of Task on Nature by creating Guards at all 6(?) entrances into one part of the Forest.

That does not strike me as serving the Balance. If i was Silvanus i'd fall you because you're seeking to turn nature into a veangeful pre-emptive force, with a retinue of servants. You're no longer serving nature and the balance, your making nature and the balance serve you.

I must say, I agree. Although, Silvanus would probably be mad that it's turning into a civilized petting zoo with a camp zone, not that they're kicking ass when ass has to be kicked. Silvanus isn't Mielikki or Eldath, he can be super brutal. That's why I <3 him.

banneronin wrote:

Um.. most of us are not from the Grove.

You don't have to go to the Grove, go somewhere deep in the forest where it's less likely to happen. Better yet, camp -in front- of the Grove gates so you're protected by the NPC rangers and can chit chat till your throat bleeds. Alternatively, you can go to a city and town to sit around and talk if you don't want to run the risk of conflict. There's no shame in feeling OOC that you don't want conflict today. You know what I do, when I just hate and don't want to get into PvP? I stay in Cordor or Bendir Dale. It has a success rate of 98% of ensuring I don't have to PvP anyone.

banneronin wrote:

Um.. most of us are not from the Grove.

Then go back to your hidden glade that got added specifically because your people hated the Grove.

Last edited by xordae on Sat, Jul 25 2009, 20:16 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I'll always be in favour of less NPCs that can be metagamed, less control through assumed guards that cannot act or react unless a DM controls them and more PvP enabled zones. Those NPCs don't help any. In the best case scenario opposing players will be like "We can't do that here, so let's go outside", a well known sentence if you hang around Cordor. Worst case scenario, the NPCs get metagamed. What good do they bring? None.

Please don't turn anymore Zones into wimpy "we'll just insult each other because that's all we can do here" places. People are de-sensitized enough to danger already.

xordae wrote:

I'll always be in favour of less NPCs that can be metagamed, less control through assumed guards that cannot act or react unless a DM controls them and more PvP enabled zones. Those NPCs don't help any. In the best case scenario opposing players will be like "We can't do that here, so let's go outside", a well known sentence if you hang around Cordor. Worst case scenario, the NPCs get metagamed. What good do they bring? None.

Totally in agreement.

xordae wrote:

I'll always be in favour of less NPCs that can be metagamed, less control through assumed guards that cannot act or react unless a DM controls them and more PvP enabled zones. Those NPCs don't help any. In the best case scenario opposing players will be like "We can't do that here, so let's go outside", a well known sentence if you hang around Cordor.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that sentence. In fact, that's what should ALWAYS happen, NPC guards or no. People need to realize cities are not places to go crazy with hellballs and such and I think Yossarin's done a great job using IC events to influence such a mindset with the Cordor plot.. though it was all spurred by PC choices.

I'll never be in favor of taking out NPCs of cities. Ever. They're utterly necessary to control at times and enforce upon people that they can't do anything they damn well please anywhere they damn well please.

*shrug*

lol..are you kidding me Estara.. Crazy stuff happens alot in cities..anywhere really? (thievery, murder, religious wackos, prostitution lol, drug deals . . . . ) That is why there are PC's and NPC guards

Love you Gunz, wouldn't camp there without a really good reason and the reason the camp is where it is isn't for Elda. She sleeps elsewhere and usually way up in a tree unless something happens to exhaust her like the day Willow ran into her.

Boguns (MM 2e) are made by druids. What would have really rocked was a woodling or wood woad wandering around.

It's a traveler's camp for folks who port in or pass through to rest, eat or such. Some have no idea where the Grove is located and get a helpful point in the direction if they're looking for it.

Chris, what seems to have been given was alot of commentary suggesting that this thread was a whine against pvp and not liking our picnics spoiled. I think Gunz and a few others have been about the only ones responding less about what seems to be perceived as 'fussy baby' syndrome and more to the queries in the OP.

Since to me, Silvanus tends to take the "Did you really do everything you possibly could do before calling on me?" stance to things, all avenues were being explored ICly. This was asking if the lengthy IC discussions would warrant making a formal request.

However just for craps and chortles, I could just drop about 500k on greater planar binding scrolls and high level summon scrolls, pass them around in the camp and the first person going silly-ebils gets hit with them all at once.

I would have hoped this would be answered sensibly if possible. To me, sensibly would have amounted to:

"Well no we couldn't alter those items/creatures for that map, sorry" or "it might be possible to put a small transition to a place midair on the existing trees but would take some time"

The Glade is very lovely and we adore it to bits. It's safe and it's wonderful to bring people who wish to join, to sit and discuss things at the weekly gatherings. If we wanted to be 100% non-pvp we would happily kidnap travelers to rest in the Glade. The Rangers and Druids at the encampment are there to greet and aid travelers who need/ask for it and defend those who can't defend themselves as well as the surrounding forest.

We rather like our jobs even when they get hard to very hard. Perhaps I should have worded the OP as "What would the cost be for the nature faction in materials/labor to have these items implemented?" since asking in the general terms brought in responses of varied but sadly unhelpful natures in many posts.

Even the answers: "That is a thought, but -insert lore- would weigh against something like that" (thanks Gunz, the hunt was fun looking for counters to that. XD) "We don't have it in the toolset to create it so it can't be done at all" would have been helpful and informative.

*shrugs lightly* With all the other construction happening between both the servers, I didn't think seats in a few of the existing trees or something like a wood wright with 15% size increase near the Bendir Dale entrance where the badgers are, a mini stone/wood creation semi-concealed at the west in the ruins and sweetberry and an invisible air/clay spirit at the north was that bad.

You're right Estara. I just have this funny idea in my head.. that says that once there is actually a threat to your character's life, he will stop mouthing off so badly to this RDD who stands in the square. People really like to take No-PvP as an excuse to get snotty to characters they ordinarily wouldn't dare to. Not that it's entirely unrealistic to do this, people might do the same thing if their friend was a policeman and he came to a bar with them... but it's not really kosher IMO and it gives people a very lacking sense of what's dangerous to do and what's not. This lacking sense might end up creating more PvP when they finally are outside and decide to do some good old "socializing at someone else's expense". And then start complaining when they get smacked down because they were only making conversation.

Wow. I am so not impress how people react to a comment. I wasn't saying I wanted to hide. Just that a lot of people assume -everyone- from the forest is from the Grove. But I apologize for putting it out there.

Thryliss wrote:

The thing that stands out from this situation was "yes" we all still had fun and rolled with the punches, but it was a small reminder of reality "hey we have to leave this area cause it wont let me hostile you" *facepalms*

Or "The guards will beat the shit out of us for disturbing the peace if we try"?

As for the mater of golems / sprites / homonculi / other NPC guardians, I still don't see why they should be there.
What is their purpose? All I can see is "to make a current PvP zone non-PvP", and why should this be the case? The Grove is tamed because of the druids, and they keep order there, and the rest of the Amia Forest near the Crystal is safe as far as monsters and wild animals go thanks to the Roadwardens and supposedly druids.

Quote:

It's a traveler's camp for folks who port in or pass through to rest, eat or such.

There's a ridiculously heavily guarded town a tad south if you need rest. If you're in danger, I suppose the Grove would offer sanctuary, but as for PCs setting up their own camp, why should they get NPCs to help guard it by default? That would be like a bunch of dwarves setting up a mining camp in a well-travelled area and expecting armed guards.

Thryliss wrote:

lol..are you kidding me Estara.. Crazy stuff happens alot in cities..anywhere really? (thievery, murder, religious wackos, prostitution lol, drug deals . . . . ) That is why there are PC's and NPC guards

Thievery and murder do not count as random hellballing and rolling around naked in the canals... to me, at least. I tried to give a rough example of what I meant by crazy (and what has actually happened in Cordor many times).

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