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Dev Disco
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 Posted: Sat, Aug 22 2009, 19:15 PM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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TormakSaber wrote: No, it's "Why are you so adamant against haking the other half of the server if you're doing it to that half already?" PLCs and tilesets are "Worth it" insomuch as adding a hak can be, but why ccan't the cool stuff be on both servers?
O, I thought I had mentioned that a few times now?
I acknowledge the "If Amia had HAKs I'd not gone there" sentiment. It seems a very reasonable worry. Combine this with the observation that most people start in in A (it's the most populated part and therefore at the top of the GS list) and you got the base ingredients of my logic.
I'd rather have A and B have the new content, without the need to install anything, but that's impossible. In short: I try to maximise the options and to minimise the costs.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sat, Aug 22 2009, 19:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I guess to me it just comes across more like you treating B as your pet project. You've said a lot you prefer B to A and to me it's starting to feel like you'd rather leave A in the dust and focus on B and the mainland/oddball stuff instead.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Xaviera
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Posted: Sat, Aug 22 2009, 21:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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B is the wing being added to the house and is still under construction. Presumably when A is approximately equal to B, modifications will occur to both more or less equally.
_________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Sat, Aug 22 2009, 21:49 PM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Well, if you look at the update list, and take into account that B is still a work in progress, I don't see much of a reason to assume B is my pet project.
I do admit that I find working on B far more relaxing, but that has mainly to do with long toes in almost every area on A.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sat, Aug 22 2009, 22:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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I can understand that there's no monkey on the back screaming 'THE LORE SAYETH IT WAS THIS WAY IT MUST BE SO!' for Disco on B. It allows things to be added to the module that aren't beholden to as many things with Amia specific immutable lore.
I can also see Tormak's worry as it is one of my own of the very realistic City mouse/Country mouse gentrification, and elitism that could be hatched from Amia A/Amia B's communities.
I know some people have in no uncertain terms before proudly displayed their 'elitism', even publicly on the forums about other players based on their choice of role playing venue. I do not think it is wise to feed any fuel onto that fire by making 'have' and 'have nots' or setting up a situation where there is factual evidence to back up such claims that one area is 'better', before such behavior is properly checked.
That being said, that is also not a reason to hold back on development or discussions of such. In my opinion such public behavior should be smacked down with every bit of prudence that flaming, and harassment are, OOCly.
What is going on here is a very realistic and desire from a Developmental point of view on Disco's side, wanting more tools and content to do things with, with keeping things new, fresh, even streamlining and not having to 'hack' or 'cobble together' solutions, and wanting to keep the players happy.
While we also have very much intense concern for the Players, and the Community's health and wellbeing, and the ramifications of the additions could cause to those on Tormak's concerns.
The passion and drive is there for the server from both of you. What one must do is look at the problem and then look for what the solution to that problem is, if there is one, then find the steps to solve it within the acceptable parameters of what the 'recipe of success' that has created Amia is.
Though with that being said, if the desirability of B begins to exceed the desirability of A, then no longer will B be the 'Refuge' or 'underpopulated' server that people access as a back up, and getting people in and through the door, without haks will prove difficult as A will slither down the list.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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ainjyll
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Posted: Sat, Aug 22 2009, 23:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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When all is said and done, I look at it this way....
A HAK would give both dev's and DM's more tools to work with. It seems to me that several of the people that stand against HAK's are doing so like a 2 year old that doesn't want to put their shoes on. Regardless of how much sense it makes to do, they're going to find a reason to not do it.
Those of us that are pro-HAK have conceded several points about what a HAK should and shouldn't do, yet there is not a inch of budge on the other side. Seems rather redundant to keep discussion the subject if one of the two sides has no intention to compromise in the least. Reminds me of the health care debate in the States.
_________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 0:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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theres no compromise
Its easy hack free
or use hacks
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 0:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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IronAngel wrote: Uhm.. you can use them, if you must. You just can't use the model in game. There's no IC reality clash, though. You can just type the creature description and use a different model, or they can be disguised (in the case of magical stuff), or it can happen on the forums, etc.
If that is a viable and acceptable solution, then there's no need for the hak in the first place.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 0:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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ainjyll wrote: When all is said and done, I look at it this way....
A HAK would give both dev's and DM's more tools to work with. It seems to me that several of the people that stand against HAK's are doing so like a 2 year old that doesn't want to put their shoes on. Regardless of how much sense it makes to do, they're going to find a reason to not do it.
Those of us that are pro-HAK have conceded several points about what a HAK should and shouldn't do, yet there is not a inch of budge on the other side. Seems rather redundant to keep discussion the subject if one of the two sides has no intention to compromise in the least. Reminds me of the health care debate in the States.
Please do not bring in politics into this discussion.
Furthermore, the inference that someone disagreeing with your opinion is behaving like an obstinate child without reason is Strawmanning.
There's been adequate and legitimate reasoning to stand against adding HAKs. These have been clearly stated to why those concerns are held and points validated even by some proponents of haks, by their own admission in this very thread.
Limited factual supposition that is based on statistical evidence in support of it from a player's perspective has been displayed on either side of the fence. Were it to exist it would be much easier to base a decision one way or another. I have my own coincidental evidence and believe strongly in the traditions of the server as they were in many respects.
So instead of wasting energy on speaking down against the opposition, I suggest to promote your opinion by backing it with facts or supposition derived from a projection from factual numbers. It'd prove far more useful, and far less offensive.
At this point, all I can do is render my opinion and add to discussion, I have already rendered my opinion on wether to do it or not, beyond that I am reading on to see the evolution of the thread, and see if any counterpoints are raised that would cause me to re-evaluate my current opinion.
Edit: Spelling/grammar
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
Last edited by Dwagin on Sun, Aug 23 2009, 0:17 AM, edited 2 times in total.
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jafman30
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 0:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: The Land of Confusion.
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Neverwinter nights 1 itself seems to be dying down, so why stick to old ways for now? I personally say that we get some way to advertise Amia on NWN other than having it show up on the list. However, i am not so keen on the point they are making about losing the new players. That indeed would suck, and we would technically be playing with the same people, other than the occasional few who show up. And also, you have to realize we would lose some of those that play now, due to the fact that they haven't played long enough to want to download hacks. We could simply go to the point where we dont have to spam direct connect to get into A, and we would have the same people we have been rping with for years.
-Could-.
Or, we -could- become so great we take over NWN altogether because of our awesome Dev team and awesome players. Despite how much i would love to play on a hoss-ified amia, it could end rather badly.
It comes down to this, do you want to take the chance of losing a little less than half our fame, and keep the great rp'ers we already know and love, and get all the benefits of Haks of course. Or would you rather keep the new guys, find new great rp'ers, and keep everything the steady flow it is?
To me, it would be more like having all of us that aren't new explore the wonders of Haks, then get bored with it, and either remove haks, or just leave the server.
Remember, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it"
_________________
--MAINS--
Xanon .: Talonite!
Xiladei .: Amethyst Dragon Disciple.
Ryth .: Returning Elven Archer. Missing for some time.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 0:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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ainjyll wrote: Those of us that are pro-HAK have conceded several points about what a HAK should and shouldn't do, yet there is not a inch of budge on the other side. Seems rather redundant to keep discussion the subject if one of the two sides has no intention to compromise in the least. Reminds me of the health care debate in the States.
Excuse me? The other side has said complete hak free, or they would settle for both servers haked, or at least some of the proponents have, so don't make up broad generalisations that end up being a downright lie regarding the most vocal of those defending it.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 1:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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And let us not forgot those poor saps that have no choice. If Haks come there will be a few people that have to leave
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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ticket
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 1:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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The Incognitos wrote: And let us not forgot those poor saps that have no choice. If Haks come there will be a few people that have to leave
Don't worry, if it comes down to it I'm sure plenty of us who would be happy to help you guys step by step or even make a custom installer so you just have to [1] download the installer, then [2] double click it. If Disco doesn't make it himself. Disco has already said how he'll go out of his way to make sure the change would be as seamless as possible.
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Jaqueline
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 1:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Location: Wizard tower of doom
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When it comes to haks or no haks, I'd stick to the option that keeps 100% of the player base.
At the end of the day, any amount of haks ever is going to be a novelty. 1.69 has come and gone. CEP has been out forever. Can anybody honestly say that people stick around to play this game for a better part of a decade because of a new tileset, extra crafting options, or the amazingly modern graphics? These things are great but every tileset is going to get old after the first use. What keeps this game together are the people and the stories they bring.
_________________
--Jaqueline Fend---> Red-headed wizzy
--Rhalia Cain---> Red Wizzy
--Rizo'lil---> Waterhavian specialist (not a wizzy)
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J.G.
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 2:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere, anywhere, everywhere, and nowhere.
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Jaqueline wrote: When it comes to haks or no haks, I'd stick to the option that keeps 100% of the player base.
At the end of the day, any amount of haks ever is going to be a novelty. 1.69 has come and gone. CEP has been out forever. Can anybody honestly say that people stick around to play this game for a better part of a decade because of a new tileset, extra crafting options, or the amazingly modern graphics? These things are great but every tileset is going to get old after the first use. What keeps this game together are the people and the stories they bring.
*Applaud*
_________________
Gianan Wing - Wandering Priest of Akadi
Rente Galenson - Halruaan Wizard
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 2:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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I'd like people to stop using the phrase "If it's not broken, don't fix it". Because if that was the case Amia wouldn't exist.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 2:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Honestly, if we do go up to HAK's, I can't see why we'd lose any of our playerbase.
The main issue as to why we'd lose new people is because they simply don't know what HAK's are, or can't work out how to get them, or don't consider the effort worthwhile just to try out a server.
Pre-Existing players won't be affected directly. On that one it'll become a case of "Will They" or "Won't They" download the file that they know the location of and instructions for.
_________________
Mostly Retired
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Cori
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 3:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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If we do go HAK, I really would prefer both servers to get it.
It would utterly ruin the entire concept of Amia A & B being one server, that we've been trying to push for ...well, a long time now.
_________________ Role with the Punches...
Elan: A 10% chance is pretty unlikely, but everyone knows that a one-in-a-million chance is a sure thing!
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 3:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Selvec Darkon wrote: I'd like people to stop using the phrase "If it's not broken, don't fix it". Because if that was the case Amia wouldn't exist. I agree with you, even though I'm on the side it supports  WonWon wrote: Honestly, if we do go up to HAK's, I can't see why we'd lose any of our playerbase.
As to this ... why is it physically impossible for you to install a hak, Incognito?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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ainjyll
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 3:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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I have noticed that this thread has begun to chase it's own tail. I believe that just about everyone who has an opinion has stated it and the reasons behind it. Now, it just seems that it's the same reasons over and over and over with slight grammatical variation. I would love for someone on either side of the aisle to bring a new point to the discussion as I know that I'm sounding like a broken record.
_________________ "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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The Incognitos
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 3:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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A few reasons; limited download, limited space on my computer, inability to deal with anything complex on computer, distrust of content I don't understand, unwillingness to upgrade a glorified typewriter for game graphics.
From what I have seen in the world of 'just add a little to make it better' concepts, the adding never stops at a little. There will always be a new shiny add on coming along, just begging to be added to the Hak list. If a custom installer is made then there will be little reason to deny these new additions that pop up. Floodgates are hard to close.
_________________ Jess Incognito:- Ah, but the phoenix may fly only when its feathers are grown...
Olaf Grudgebringer: Stroppy Cleric or Morradin
Krunk (Underdark): Stay back! He's a bit mad.
the_incognitos@live.com
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 4:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Game engine considerations ARE kept in mind by the staff. There's a reason why some NPC models added in 1.69 will never be used on Amia.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 4:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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The Incognitos wrote: A few reasons; limited download, limited space on my computer, inability to deal with anything complex on computer, distrust of content I don't understand, unwillingness to upgrade a glorified typewriter for game graphics.
That doesn't seem to fit so much as 'unable to install hak' but in the 'limited bandwidth / speed' and 'don't want to install a hak' arguments IMO.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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xordae
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 6:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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To reiterate it for the Xth time, either give the same HAK to both servers or give it to neither. Please don't pick favourites. Having one server with less tools and goodies than the other just doesn't feel right, even from a player's point of view.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 7:40 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Dev Disco wrote: Do tell me: How can you do a Cordor plot on B if B has no Cordor? Why doesn't A have Windreaper? Why isn't there a faction area for the Kohlingen Triad on B? Why doesn't B have Mylocks?
I can go on like this. The basic idea is that A and B are not the same. That's why they are called A and B in the first place. Woots! I is geniusz!
This sounds suspiciously similar to the "Rental Houses on B" argument, btw, and I'll ask the question (that nobody answered then) again: Why so afraid that you don't get exactly the same as any other player at any given moment even if it doesn't give you any advantage in the game? I really don't understand this emotion.
Nobody has managed to answer the last paragraph, btw. I see many of you riding the "It must be the same!" pony again and again, but the only real motivation behind it has come from Dwagin and that one is highly hypothetical and not supported by any current trend (that B would be more popular than A in the near future). If that would happen the logical conclusion would be to make A a hak server as well, I agree with that.
The rest of you seem just to say that A should be equal to B because A should be equal to B, and I am afraid you miss the point that they aren't the same anyway. What do you actually think you will be missing on A?
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Metalien
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 7:48 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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*Throws his hat into the "No to HAKs" ring*
The whole idea of having one server as a HAK server and one as a non HAK server is just stupid, you might as well make them two completely different servers.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 7:59 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Thank you for illustrating my post. That's exactly the kind of opinion I am not interested in.
_________________
Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Zanthair
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya
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the issue i'd have with B being hak and A being non-hak, is it throws a huge wrench in the plans to move the underdark population to B, as it basically forces all new UD players to download the haks.
Thus, Ultrinnan and cordor both have to stay on A, leaving us with the problem of A being mad full at all times and new players having to start on B, but now getting bogged down with haks.
as much as i'd love to see what goodies haks could add to the underdark to make it even more beautiful than it already is, at what cost will it come?
_________________
Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words
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xordae
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Location: Germany
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It's not really about me having less if I play on A more than on B, and the few people who have argued along similar lines probably don't mean it in an egoistical sense either.
There aren't really any obvious disadvantages that new content brings, except for B requiring the HAKs to log on, and A not. So my argument is based only on ideals and fancy buzzwords that I still feel quite strongly about. The ideal of "unity between servers", that entails something that happens on B could happen on A if the DMs or players wanted to make it happen. Rental houses are just a bit of module work that could easily be replicated on A. Of course A and B have different content. They have different stuff inside of them and different areas, they are not copies of each other. But when it comes down to what can be done with the modules, they are identical. Giving B some gimmicks exclusively is like taking freedom away: The freedom for the DMs to utilize these gimmicks whereever they want (and the cooler those are, the more they'll want to use them), and the freedom of the players if they want to see and play with these gimmicks. The choice they'll have is to either hang around Amia island and never to see them, ever, or to go play on B because it has cooler stuff.
This just sounds like a "people hang around the main island too much, we need to shovel players onto B and have them RP in a more spread out fashion, so we'll give B an advantage". I know you don't mean it like that, because this started out as a HAKs-or-no-HAKs thread, but following this plan, you're bound to see an even bigger gap between these two servers. They'll feel even less like they belong together, and that is a problem that's already made a few DMs cranky.
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Metalien
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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Dev Disco wrote: Thank you for illustrating my post. That's exactly the kind of opinion I am not interested in.
I'm just making my opinion felt, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Isn't this about wether or not to have HAKs? My opinion of them is they're not needed on Amia, for 4 years, almost 5 now, this server has been proudly saying it's a HAK free server, so why change all that now?
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Dev Disco wrote: The rest of you seem just to say that A should be equal to B because A should be equal to B, and I am afraid you miss the point that they aren't the same anyway. What do you actually think you will be missing on A?
Alternatively, why should B have improved graphics and monsters and other content that are not available for use on A? What reason is there for making A-mia: Standard and B-Mia: Premium instead of 'Amia'?
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Nekhy
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:46 AM |
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Btw, keep in mind the sheer idiocy of adding HAKs to both servers in one go, from a developmental point of view. That'd be a disaster to change two out of two servers in one go in case things don't work out right away. So, the one-server-HAK'd model is going to be put to test for purely practical reasons in any case, if we go for the HAK.
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ticket
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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So the eng game is to get both server haked?
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Gunz
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Another bad thing about adding HAK's to one server only, is that, whether you'd like to admit it or not, B does have waaaay more Epic level areas. So people stuck on A will be stuck with 2-3 areas to level once they're Epic. That's lame too.
I agree about the UD and Mystras thing too. That's a huge problem. There are plenty of other bad things, in regards to faith, mostly. The Kellie temple, the Hoarite temple, the Mulan faiths, the Dwarven city, all on B. So players who won't/can't DL this HAK for B are left limited. They can't RP in the main RP hubs of their faith and/or race.
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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Nekhy wrote: Btw, keep in mind the sheer idiocy of adding HAKs to both servers in one go, from a developmental point of view. That'd be a disaster to change two out of two servers in one go in case things don't work out right away. So, the one-server-HAK'd model is going to be put to test for purely practical reasons in any case, if we go for the HAK.
That's why I said several posts ago that I would support only one so long as it is a transitional state between both not having haks and both having haks.
That is, of course, if I can't get my first preference of both not having haks period.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Gunz
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Nekhy wrote: Btw, keep in mind the sheer idiocy of adding HAKs to both servers in one go, from a developmental point of view. That'd be a disaster to change two out of two servers in one go in case things don't work out right away. So, the one-server-HAK'd model is going to be put to test for purely practical reasons in any case, if we go for the HAK.
So what you're saying, now, is that -both- servers -will- be HAKed if all goes well? That changes a whole lot. Perhaps that should have been made clear before all the arguing started happening.
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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Nekhy
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:58 AM |
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No, I'm not saying that. I am saying, that even if people absolutely want both servers HAK'd, we'll have to go for one server HAK'd at first, in any case. And that'd also be a test to see how the one-server model works out in practice. Are the fears confirmed, or will it work out OK?
But having both servers HAK'd in the end is a possibility. It all depends on a lot of things which we can't know now. Also don't think in any timescales. Just realise there's a lot of ways to go about it, in the end.
Last edited by Nekhy on Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Silvarus
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 8:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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How about Amia C, the underpopulated hak testing playground that can lead to first B and then A getting haks when the effects are actually proven?
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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B-mia already has better graphics Yurell. Wiltun is a perfect example of better graphics.
Asking for Haks on both servers or not at all seems as if it's just another way of saying "No Haks" without sounding like stubborn bugger who refuses to accept any change. Fact is, it won't ever end up all dumped on at once, as it will need testing, and Disco has said he wants it just on B-mia for now because he's aware of the ease of access towards the newbie factor.
So don't say "Haks on all or no Haks" unless your a DM. Because your pretty much just saying no Haks anyway, since from your view it won't really matter.
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I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Nekhy
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:01 AM |
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Player
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Silvarus wrote: How about Amia C, the underpopulated hak testing playground that can lead to first B and then A getting haks when the effects are actually proven?
We don't have enough computing power for that right now.
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Metalien
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Home of The Royal Navy - Portsmouth, England.
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I'm very sceptical (almost anti) towards the whole HAK idea, but I'll be open minded enough to give it a try. Who knows, perhaps it might put a stop to some of the griefers? With any luck, most of them wont want to download a HAK for an hour just to get on a server and piss someone off.
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BrainSplitter
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia
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Nekhy wrote: Btw, keep in mind the sheer idiocy of adding HAKs to both servers in one go, from a developmental point of view. That'd be a disaster to change two out of two servers in one go in case things don't work out right away. So, the one-server-HAK'd model is going to be put to test for purely practical reasons in any case, if we go for the HAK.
Just for my own point;
Putting the HAK on both at once would be super-silly. I thgouht I'd noted about, were we to do both servers as HAK'd, that having one-on one-off for operational testnig for a while wouldn't be a bad idea. Apparently I forgot to append that part to my post >.>
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Mostly Retired
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Nekhy
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:13 AM |
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Player
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Metalien_XC wrote: I'm very sceptical (almost anti) towards the whole HAK idea, but I'll be open minded enough to give it a try. Who knows, perhaps it might put a stop to some of the griefers? With any luck, most of them wont want to download a HAK for an hour just to get on a server and piss someone off.
Well, I suggest you read what Disco has posted about his ideas of a HAK so far. One of the major requirements is "not too big", so no hours of downloading. But I guess even a small download is enough of a deterrent to certain asshats.
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Zante
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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The reason why I would like to get haks on both servers is that we can get stuff like weapons and armours. I don't really care for tilesets and placeables, but more character customization would be awesome.
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Zante wrote: The reason why I would like to get haks on both servers is that we can get stuff like weapons and armours. I don't really care for tilesets and placeables, but more character customization would be awesome.
And mechanical fixes.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Dwagin
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 9:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Dev Disco wrote:
Nobody has managed to answer the last paragraph, btw. I see many of you riding the "It must be the same!" pony again and again, but the only real motivation behind it has come from Dwagin and that one is highly hypothetical and not supported by any current trend (that B would be more popular than A in the near future). If that would happen the logical conclusion would be to make A a hak server as well, I agree with that.
The rest of you seem just to say that A should be equal to B because A should be equal to B, and I am afraid you miss the point that they aren't the same anyway. What do you actually think you will be missing on A?
Some things have had such a wonderful job done with them on B that one can not help but feel that there are some areas of A that are felt to be underutilized, lacking, or just unequal, or just old and haven't really been streamlined/updated to be on Par with B.
B has a lot of awesome things, the areas feel very nice, in that same regard I do wish for that same type of treatment to be done to A.
I ultimately do not care about if I have to install Haks or not, if they are added I will do so it is not complicated or hard for me to do.
What I -DO- care about is the well being of the server its population, the community and if they are the best thing for it.
My supposition never theorized that B would overtake A in the -near- future, just that it could happen. I was only saying, were it to become more popular than A something would need be done to rectify this, but this is obvious with anyone with forethought.
I would say that at least some in the 'No HAKs' camp fear the changes, because change is scary, and we have no way to forcast what may happen, or what 'slippery slopes may arrise'. These concerns I don't think have been put in so many words, but I get the general feeling that this very well is the crux of it for some.
We could go around forever with 'But what if this happens.'
If if's were skiffs we could all go sailing though.
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Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Dev Disco
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 10:54 AM |
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HRM Chicken I of Amia
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam
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Dwagin wrote: Some things have had such a wonderful job done with them on B that one can not help but feel that there are some areas of A that are felt to be underutilized, lacking, or just unequal, or just old and haven't really been streamlined/updated to be on Par with B.
After having burned my fingers a few times too many I decided not to mess with established areas unless it's a result of DM plots or debugging. I am also hesitant to change an established area just because some new goodies have been added. I guess Kohlingen could use that castle tileset, but doing yet another complete overhaul of the city seems a bit silly. Same for Cordor. A module isn't chewing gum that you form in any shape you fancy at the moment.
Amia B doesn't have that drawback and perhaps we simply do a better job than previous designers. Still, I like more stuff to play with and that's why I ask for the option to add a HAK to B. There's no hidden agenda, I am afraid.
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Say 'no' to JSBF!
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 10:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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Metalien_XC wrote: ....Who knows, perhaps it might put a stop to some of the griefers? With any luck, most of them wont want to download a HAK for an hour just to get on a server and piss someone off.
I have to say, this is very much in my mind too!
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 11:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Nekhy wrote: But I guess even a small download is enough of a deterrent to certain asshats.
Thanks
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Yurell
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Posted: Sun, Aug 23 2009, 23:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Brown Blur wrote: Metalien_XC wrote: ....Who knows, perhaps it might put a stop to some of the griefers? With any luck, most of them wont want to download a HAK for an hour just to get on a server and piss someone off. I have to say, this is very much in my mind too! That is a definite upside.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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