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Is it just me, or do you also get annoyed at the constant

Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters, Puts up posters, Removes posters

That seem to be the Number 1 thing to do when stating a (IC) Letter somewhere on the forums?

It is the best we can do, if you consider the situation.

After "x" amount of time, which is not a constant, a thread will become forgotten under a slew of newer or bupped posts. This creates a conflict when you've not actually finished trying to announce, find, or offer something with a poster set-up. So, just like in Real Life, it's good to go make sure your poster is still there and replace it if needed! [Aka: bump the thread].

Removing posters, same thing. Ever see a bit of propagand you can't stand? Maybe it's a flier tacked to an electical post for adult material. Perhaps it's spray-paint under the bridge with a colorful display of vulgar language. Maybe it's just a political statement you don't agree with. Or, perhaps, it's a charity and you're an evil character who doesn't want to see their enemies getting aide while they try to crush them. Of course it's reasonable to remove, paint over, or otherwise try to prevent the post from staying up!

And, back to the time factor, our RL time doesn't line-up perfectly with in-game event time. So you can make a poster that is lost in a week of in-game announcements that only took 24hours. Or vice-versa, you can leave a poster up for a RL week before it's bumped too far down.

BTW: Not a clue what "NR1" means. Unless you mean "number 1".

What Torzeng says is true, but I do agree with the OP, it annoys me a lot.

Usually when someone makes an IC post, about an event theyre planning or a message they want to get out to the community, or even just an item sale, they put a fair bit of work into it. When people respond by emoting their character tearing it down and saying something smug, I'm sure its very demoralising to the original poster, who is probably trying to get the ball rolling on a potentially great idea.

I don't know, I realise its how people's characters would respond, it just annoys me when someone puts an idea forth and ten people have to snot allover it IC, then go back to sitting there, not putting any ideas forth themselves. That's what annoys me about tearing posters down

What annoys me is that "putting up posters" in the forums is effectively an out of game ooc method of accomplishing what would otherwise be very difficult in game, in character. This is the case whether the "poster" is listed as being "ic" or not.

So there is ABSOLUTELY no need to post "rips down poster" in order to stay "in character", because you aren't actually there. You aren't in game. Nobody is going to know that you "saw the poster, and didn't rip it down" ic, so there is no actual benefit.

If you disagree with teh poster IC, then go in game and do something about it IC. Otherwise, all you are doing by posting that you rip down a poster - which is pointless since the "poster" very clearly and obviously is still there, even if the player doesn't reply in the thread with a "reposts" type thing - is spamming a thread somebody clearly made for a purpose, diluting the chances that their purpose will be served.

Frankly, I find it rude as heck. Don't do it in any of my threads, thank you, or i'll request your post be deleted by a DM as the spam it is.

Go in game and picket against an event you don't like. Find the player in game and, I dunno, ROLE PLAY with them. I know i for one don't consider my dose of role playing to be fulfilled by someone posting on the forums.

Yes! Go Cori

Seconded.

Also may wanna think about the effect of ink and paper strewn all over the place in certain areas.

I do.

Lalelilolu wrote:

Also may wanna think about the effect of ink and paper strewn all over the place in certain areas.

I do.

Hippie

But, agree on the 'don't tear down and make inane comment'. If the posters are intentionally planted with something like "nailed to holy tree of balance with severed badger claws in druid grove" then an IC reaction is understandable.

If they are listed as "in prominent areas" then why say "tears down and uses for some demeaning purpose"?

Biggest problem I have with those threads is lately, they're flame bait.

Or an easy excuse for someone to up their post count with veiled posts supposedly in charecter.

Who would ever post just to up their post count? Especially when they're already nice and high in the list as it is.

Aye. Rude as (Cencord) would be to describe it myself also. It doesnt advance the plot, it doesnt add any intresting perspective, Nor any heavy argument.

Its...just..plain...Annoying. Dont do it, Please.

Sometimes its gotten so far that ive stopped reading the PC Event Forum.
Most of the times, its just a lot of ...nonsense. It does NOT add to the cozy RP Feeling the threads are INTENDED for.

Can we please agree on less poster-Ripping, For some mutual respect?

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

The most interesting part is when you read a characters posts, so choose a very particular location for your posters and begin following the character that tears it down/responds by writing over the original post. I once followed this guy and he responded to my poster from cordor east when it was not even in cordor:( I had planned to take him down when he went to the area to respond

:(:(.

For my part, I dont mind people tearing down posters if they get their character to actually go to the general area and roleplay tearing down a poster. I personally roleplay putting them up. If you catch my characters you can literally stop them in the act, so it is a bit annoying when you place a poster up and follow an enemy around and they magically tear it down from a distance.

That said, I think it is unfair calling them flamebait when they are in character. In character flame wars should be encouraged. The Bonds of Nature post was one of the most interesting things on amia in the past week +.

On another server I played on. You -had- to physically be seen to put up posters in order to post it in the forum. If you didn't do it IC, IG, you didn't do it.

I don't see what's wrong with it - they don't go through all the IG RP to put up the posters, so why should you go through all the IG RP to remove them?

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

Because putting up a poster is not really a hostile action, but destroying one is. This changes if you put up an anti-eternal order poster in the eternal order's temple, though. I suppose that for the most part placing up a poster is a relatively mundane act, I guess responding to it kind of is as well. Whenever you do something where PCs might actually want to stop you, you should probably be doing it in game.

Last edited by Torzeng on Tue, Sep 22 2009, 3:21 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I think it's been fair to ICly rip down posters ICly put up.

Cori wrote:

What annoys me is that "putting up posters" in the forums is effectively an out of game ooc method of accomplishing what would otherwise be very difficult in game, in character.

Right, so you are allowed to use an OOC method to spread what it is you want to say, for IC, when it would be hard to find people in game?

But I'm not allowed to use an OOC method to try and fight against you spreading your word if I don't like it, for IC, when it would be hard to catch you in-game?

It is -not- an OOC method. No, our characters don't have these forums. Yes they do have mail, message boards, and word of mouth [Much Supervised by the DM's for fair-play]. If a poster is marked IC on the forums, I can reply ICly on the forums. Or you can ban all forum IC 100% and cut us off from interacting. The use of forums for In-Character interactions is all or nothing. No "you can but you can't".

Dare I also say your comment is self-defeating.
-~-~-

That rant aside; there -is- some purpose to tearing posters down ICly. I'll point out that my Salandran PC stripped away any Red Wizard postings he saw on Salandra's temple.

The Red Wizards, to the best of my knowledge, put the posters up without having permission to post at the temple. I was certainly never sent notice it was "approved in-game". Tearing down the posters on the forum was completely ligitimate. What I was doing was taking this OOC forum for IC actions was vandalism. So I'll OOC forum IC remove the vandalism.

I certainly was not there, in-game, when it occured to prevent it. So I reacted to the best of my ability. On the forums! Where the problem was most prominent! And if it happened around me in-game, I would have done the exact same.

-~-~-
And to quote one of my own topics: Forum IC poster ripping down CAN be handled forum IC replied to with "why?"

Torzeng wrote:

fjook wrote:

Nik'ta rips ever last poster that has Westons name on it in Wharftown.

Weston is disheartened to see scraps and shreds of his posters hardly still hanging from the board in Wharftown. But on another visit he pins up a new set still needing to find potential workers.

Yossarin wrote:

fjook wrote:

The new set is violently riped off the Walls in Wharftown just like the last set, by Nik'ta.

"Hey, look here, little lady. That's just a piece of paper. Shore, you may have some beef with the bloke whose name's at the bottom, but summa the rest of us is innerested in seeing what he has to say," the people of Wharftown tell Nik'ta. Some ask why she is so unreasonable. Others claim it is her business. All are respectful in their chastisement, and the Mayor, Garth, even offers Nik'ta a few free drinks at the bar to settle her nerves while Weston's sign is put back together again, in public view of somebody at all times.

I admit, this is a DM adressing the situation. Did I ask them to? No.
Worried about permission to interact with the person taking down posters, on the forum? Ask over a PM if they would be okay with it first.

-~-~-

Can somebody find me, anytime, that a DM is quoted as stating what we all know so well: "IC actions have IC consiquences."

Choosing to IC post up a flier on forums opens yourself to IC forum reply consiquences; good or bad.

My issue with public posters (at least, the sort that would get torn down, such as negative propaganda, public accusations, etcetera) is this;

It's a ramification free way of making a bit, overarching message to everyone without any actual risk. Example;

Earylduil could write in big letters that he caught Darthion Ilyss admitting is love to a halfling prostitute and renouncing his faith, post it, and...

...tada. The most you can do is emote under it "Removes it", however as Cori says - it stays regardless.

I don't see an issue with people removing notices if it's truly valid for that character. TO use the example above - Darthion would be fully in his right to tear every single one of those posters to shreds.

That said, I have to wonder one thing...

Do 90% of Amia's population carry a Printing Press and-or Photocopier in their back pocket? I've always wondered, what with how swarms of copies of the same poster can be replenished in seconds, and verbatim (even in color!) copies of other people's postings can be shared around freely.

@WonWon: Scribe job. And I do think I try to mention that the posters are always hand made with care when I do put any up. It's a fair point, but we're also a cacophony of time-paradox

These are details which need addressing, and in future posts I'll try to keep it in mind, especially when it comes to large scale messages.

The OP is right, and there really is no justification for the behavior no matter how hard you may try. It is true that it will happen, but the fact that it happens shows that the players involved in it are uncreative halfwits or infantile jerks.

Sometimes, you really just have to call a spade a spade.

Some propaganda can be interesting even if ICly vexing

Best thing to do, like I said I'd do: Keep these details in mind in future messages.

Torzeng wrote:

@WonWon: Scribe job. And I do think I try to mention that the posters are always hand made with care when I do put any up. It's a fair point, but we're also a cacophony of time-paradox

Scribes are individuals trained in being damn good writers, at the core, really. Their art is a delicate, practiced one, often writing entire books and the like en-masse.

THis is hardly a quick proceedure that someone can perform every 30 seconds to replenish a poster, nor is it a power that grants one the ability to create 100% Perfect forgeries, complete with signaures, insignias, handwriting, color-tone, paper-type...

...y'get the idea.

Scribing monks spent lifetimes hand copying manuscripts. The time is condensed in game ebcause spending 3 hours to 'write a poster' is not very fun.

In any case, yes, Yossarin and the OP are right, and I type this with full admittance that my characters have done the dastardly deeds in the past.

Yossarin wrote:

The OP is right, and there really is no justification for the behavior no matter how hard you may try. It is true that it will happen, but the fact that it happens shows that the players involved in it are uncreative halfwits or infantile jerks.

I'm offened.

Apparently trying to keep propaganda out of a medical facility, that was IC felt to be potential to cause fear or chaos in the patients, has dubbed me "uncreative halfwit or infantile jerk".

Torzeng wrote:

I certainly was not there, in-game, when it occured to prevent it.

I think you owe it that not everyone causes this problem. But you've included everyone by your statement. Have I caused problems? I sure have. And I try to learn from it each time so I can do better.

Grymia wrote:

Some propaganda can be interesting even if ICly vexing

Best thing to do, like I said I'd do: Keep these details in mind in future messages.

Propaganda is fine and encouraged. I'm referring specifically to pulling down, putting up, pulling down, putting up, pulling down, putting up, along with the rapid-fire responses which make zero sense. It is like you schmucks are afraid to post:

Character A comes across character B and continues this chat in the semi-public forum.

"How dare you pin up such libel? I have a mind to have your head examined! Now, to refute your claims, I must most certainly disagree with the assertion that I, Darthion, bugger small children in exchange for cupcakes. Nothing could be further from the truth, although it is true I do have a predeliction for both frosted pastries and crying children."

And just continue your retarded tete-a-tete with posted IC verbage rather than zounds of posters and ink.

TormakSaber wrote:

Scribing monks spent lifetimes hand copying manuscripts. The time is condensed in game ebcause spending 3 hours to 'write a poster' is not very fun.

Doesn't actually adress the point, though.

The issue -i- have, personally, is the fact that 99.9% of Amian Individuals have the capability to do this IC. I don't really care too much about the Scribe Job in general, other than the fact it represents or signifies a skill.

It's not against the rules, mind, I'm just bitching.

Torzeng wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

The OP is right, and there really is no justification for the behavior no matter how hard you may try. It is true that it will happen, but the fact that it happens shows that the players involved in it are uncreative halfwits or infantile jerks.

I'm offened.

Apparently trying to keep propaganda out of a medical facility, that was IC felt to be potential to cause fear or chaos in the patients, has dubbed me "uncreative halfwit or infantile jerk".

You get one free pass: the initial taking them down. The minute someone "puts them back up", and you take them down again, it becomes retarded.

Can this kind of warning also extend to other kinds of posting?

I will give an example: http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40051.

If your character will reply sending another letter, by all means do just that: send the bloody letter. But if your character is not going to reply, why even post an emote about your thoughts?

If I have no way of reading your thoughts, why do you even bother posting them?

It's like those posts were someone posts some sort of event and people reply, simply: "Somewhere, someone laughs".

Again. Why do I need to know about your character having fun at the expense of my character, if my character has no way of knowing?

These actions remind me, in a way, of those blasted thought bubbles.

1) If you reply openly, there are risks: I can reply, I can ignore, I can attack you... but my character will be able to react some way, which to my thinking is a fair way of playing.

2) If you post your thoughts, you are not allowing me to reply. Why, then, even bother posting?

I used my thread as example. This post was not directed at anyone in particular. I have seen similar behaviours in other threads.

WonWon wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Scribing monks spent lifetimes hand copying manuscripts. The time is condensed in game ebcause spending 3 hours to 'write a poster' is not very fun.

Doesn't actually adress the point, though.

The issue -i- have, personally, is the fact that 99.9% of Amian Individuals have the capability to do this IC. I don't really care too much about the Scribe Job in general, other than the fact it represents or signifies a skill.

It's not against the rules, mind, I'm just bitching.

O, I was emphasizing your point: It takes a long time to make these things, even with magic.

Quote:

It's like those posts were someone posts some sort of event and people reply, simply: "Somewhere, someone laughs".

Every time you do this, I log in, dm spawn a kitten, and DM kill it.

Dear BlackDahlya,

I think you make a great point, I do, as I can see why it would be frustrating that you never receive a reply but get a message that you never receive a reply as well.

I would inquire, though, doesn't it at least assure you that the post was noticed in the first place? You are not left wondering if anyone has actually realized you made a letter to send out, or a post to gain interest?

Furthermore, it's quite a personal choice how to treat the situation. I'm more of one to enjoy a little bit of other PC's actions despite I will never IC know of it, or even IC know them. It's like when you read a novel that you know more than the protaganist and it helps create a nice, more full story presented by the narrorator. Admittedly, it must be hard when we are all a little narrorator for many characters!

OOC,
Torzeng.

P.S. Truely offensive and rubbish posts are certainly fair to requesting a DM to remove, I should think, as innapropriate behavior if they do quite cross the lines. Or I do hope so.

At the risk of getting lynched once again by Tormak, I have to say, why don't we use the message board system we used to have here (that is, the remnants that can be seen in the Triumvir), where it brings up a dialog box when you click on it and you can post a message on it?

That way, people IC can leave messages IC physically and others can read it long after they have gone. Arelith has this sort of system but its not unique to that server either, I've seen it on plenty of servers.

Is it because it creates more lag or something we're not using it?

TormakSaber wrote:

Every time you do this, I log in, dm spawn a kitten, and DM kill it.

I already agree with Torzeng and you are encouraging that point of view :wink:

A puppy, though ...

At any rate, if someone puts up a poster in an area where you have reasonable jurisdiction I think it's perfectly fair to emote pulling it down - posting it back up again is the thing that's annoying once that happens. If you want to, for example, slander someone, do it IG where they can react.

Torzeng wrote:

<sbip>

You never witnessed Amia's worst phase of Thought Bubbles, did you?

You would know what I mean with my post, if you did.

They were usually cheap OOC jabs at you as a player, not something that you could IC address.

I am sure many of the older players would know what I mean.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

<sbip>

You never witnessed Amia's worst phase of Thought Bubbles, did you?

You would know what I mean with my post, if you did.

They were usually cheap OOC jabs at you as a player, not something that you could IC address.

I am sure many of the older players would know what I mean.

My response to thought bubbles are generally along the lines of .oO(Hey! I can see what he's thinking! I wonder if he can see my thoughts too?)

Agree with the OP.

whats weird is when someone places posters over the isle. *one* poster gets defaced. But the original poster somehow sees it and finds it necessary to tack notices below the reply and degenerate it to a forum debate. The whole omnipresence is abit bleh.

Jas wrote:

Agree with the OP.

whats weird is when someone places posters over the isle. *one* poster gets defaced. But the original poster somehow sees it and finds it necessary to tack notices below the reply and degenerate it to a forum debate. The whole omnipresence is abit bleh.

Well, I suppose if the do you could argue that they're obviously patrolling around where they put them, legitimate grounds for you to get with a DM and set up a trap or ambush.

Whoo-ee.. this thread is long already. I haven't read it all, but I consider "ripping down posters" to be nothing but wanking. It doesn't accomplish anything, and yet so many people feel compelled to do it. I dunno if they feel they have to exert influence and control, but it just makes me giggle.

xordae wrote:

Whoo-ee.. this thread is long already. I haven't read it all, but I consider "ripping down posters" to be nothing but wanking. It doesn't accomplish anything, and yet so many people feel compelled to do it. I dunno if they feel they have to exert influence and control, but it just makes me giggle.

Only because the people who put hem up don't do so in game where they can be removed.

But why remove them at all? They are IC, but it isn't entirely like "in game", this is a separate reality where only ideas are shared. A poster can't leap in game and harm your characters. And even if it is a ridiculous claim to power or whatever else people might put up.. it doesn't hurt anyone, it is not solid, and this constant "showing your colours" by ripping down posters or engaging in debate over them just makes my head spin, so fruitless it is.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Torzeng wrote:

<sbip>

You never witnessed Amia's worst phase of Thought Bubbles, did you?

You would know what I mean with my post, if you did.

They were usually cheap OOC jabs at you as a player, not something that you could IC address.

I am sure many of the older players would know what I mean.

The Dark DAys of Thought Bubbles.
Used almost exclusively by geeks with OCD mad at someone else for doing something wrong in their eyes.

.o0(GEE THAT JON DOESN'T KNOW [TRIVIAL LORE FACT IN SOME GODAWFUL LICENSED NOVEL] EVERYONE WHO IS SERIOUSLY INTO PLAYING A ROGUE//ELF/PUG SHOULD KNOW THAT WHAT A RETART!!!)

JON: *MAKES FART NOISE WITH NOSE CUZ HE'S A PUG ALSO WONDERS WHY HE CAN READ MINDS*

Everywhere on Amia the most anal retentive players anywhere anytime could use thought bubbles as an "IC"(SCARE QUOTES!) way to voice their ooc frustration.

IBit thankfully everyonbe has wised up these days and now use "IC" snarky remarks to voice their ooc frustration.

And passive aggressiveness

And the Letters Forum

And this very thread.
(Hi Yurell)

xordae wrote:

But why remove them at all? They are IC, but it isn't entirely like "in game", this is a separate reality where only ideas are shared. A poster can't leap in game and harm your characters. And even if it is a ridiculous claim to power or whatever else people might put up.. it doesn't hurt anyone, it is not solid, and this constant "showing your colours" by ripping down posters or engaging in debate over them just makes my head spin, so fruitless it is.

Why wouldn't you? Have you never seen a poster for something so offensive that you wished to remove it?

Xavier wrote:

(Hi Yurell)

Hello Xavier.

Meh. It's all IC, why do peoples panties get in a bunch OOCly about it? If you post something and my character would tear it down, guess what? My character is tearing it down. If you post it back up and my character wants to tear it down, guess what? My character is going to tear it down. I'd expect you would do the same to me. Fact of the matter is this, if you want crazy back and forth dialogue, why are you doing it in a public place with notes where they can fly away, be torn off, vandalized or pooped on by animals?

Don't whine about dialogue being broken because you were dumb enough to post publicly and someone is trashing it. If you want dialogue, do it through private letters to each other or, god forbid, in game.

That being said, can the re-posting and tearing down get out of hand? Yeah, it can. But that's the point. Sooner or later, one person will give up, right? Just like grudge fighting between people in game, eventually someone will give up. I don't think it's stupid to pull down or re-post something your character would tear down or re-post. Why would we limit an IC action because it "bothers" people OOCly? As they say, roll with he punches, right?

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

The issue gunz is that people dont 'actually' go and tear it down, so they cannot wait in the area to lynch you the second time as I have done before only for the poster to have been torn down remotely. It is a free hostile action that you may not truly have done IC if you had the potential for consequences.

Wyjyn wrote:

The issue gunz is that people dont 'actually' go and tear it down, so they cannot wait in the area to lynch you the second time as I have done before only for the poster to have been torn down remotely. It is a free hostile action that you may not truly have done IC if you had the potential for consequences.

In front of the guards? And there are potential IC consequences - they can hunt you down IG. That said, they don't know who it was that ripped down their posters, unless they've said they are standing next to it 24 hours a day.

Edit: I might also add that people don't 'actually' put it up, either.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

Yurell wrote:

Edit: I might also add that people don't 'actually' put it up, either.

I have though, and people dont go. Admittedly, it may be a bit over the top for amia to expect people to actually go there, but it is strange waiting around and getting your poster torn down when no one actually turns up.

I hate tacking up posters for discussion. I only do it for advertisements. And if they're torn down, I'm going to assume that they were up long enough and in diverse enough locations that the information is still available for the time it's relevant.

Instead, I have my PCs hold public speeches. You can't tear down a speech, and anyone can assume they either heard my speech directly, or someone who did paraphrased it to them. And then, if you don't want to know the contents, you can just choose not to hear the speech. It's quite simple.

What about some diversity?

*A herd of irate cattle stampedes through Cordor, each having the slogan "Borri: Best Butter in Town!" painted on its sides*

*Pseudodragons fly over Kohlingen, carrying banners that say "Bane is the Best!"*

*A dismembered corpse is found in Bendir. Somebody created a message with the entrails. It reads "Assassin Guild: For a job well-done!"*

Forum/Poster-based RP doesn't have to be limiting like that. Sure, most of us don't don't do it IG also, and I think a good portion of the reason is that there isn't really any specific In Game board or similar bulletins to hang around near. You might go to Amia forest and hang around at the tree you think the posters are on, but the OP might have had a tree on the other side of the map in mind.

The nice thing about the forum-based stuff is you have a bit more creative license. I think the thread has been pruned out, else I'd just link to it as an example, but there was this fantastic bit of RP Maias and I had totally via auction postings. We never showed up in game, but we described what we were doing in the course of our reply post, not just our outbids. Zenith almost got Karleron in jail, Zenith almost got mugged and beat up, I think she got rocks thrown at her by kids Karl paid off to chase her from the auction notice, and so on... None of that would have been as "possible" or able to be pulled off in game, but we still responded to it; it still happened. It was RP, not just talkie posts back and forth.

Point is (besides to say how cool and fun Maias is) that I'm sure the same auction board scenario can apply to any other type of posting situation.

Seems like the kind of thing that can be solved by a shift in server culture. Make the convention that instances of posters being torn down or defaced need an accompanying screenshot to prove they really did happen IG-ICly.

Uberuce wrote:

Seems like the kind of thing that can be solved by a shift in server culture. Make the convention that instances of posters being torn down or defaced need an accompanying screenshot to prove they really did happen IG-ICly.

Require the same thing of them being put up so that we know where they ae to tear them down.

Posters, Annoying.

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