AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Last edited by IronAngel on Wed, Sep 23 2009, 22:21 PM, edited 1 time in total.

WM is nice, too. Weapon choice is important, but trusty and otherwise optimized builds will do fine on almost any weapon. Spear has a good critical multiplier, so I'd play on that.

Got a generic Two hander build for me? Fighter/WM/rogue?

Personally I really like to be able to self buff. I guess Im just spoiled from playing a ranger for so long.

What's the usual thing.. 12/16/2 Ftr/WM/Rog or something?

I suppose... should be possible to squeeze in dev-crit I hope?

Two hander?

With dev crit?

12 Fighter won't be enough.

Any suggestions for an efficient Ghostwise Halfling ranger build? Animal Companion and primary focus would be nice too

This character would be primarily rped as a survival expert, while a High Ranger lvl would be nice, a blend of classes to make her skilled in PvM and/or PvP would work

QPR wrote:

Got a generic Two hander build for me? Fighter/WM/rogue?

Personally I really like to be able to self buff. I guess Im just spoiled from playing a ranger for so long.

Fighter(12), Weapon Master(16), Rogue(2), Human
STR: 18 (26)
DEX: 13
CON: 12
WIS: 8
INT: 13
CHA: 8

Pre-Epic: Fighter 10/WM 10
Knockdown
Weapon Focus: Halberd
Dodge
Mobility
Expertise
Weapon Specialization: Halberd
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Improved Critical: Halberd
Blind Fight
Power Attack
Cleave
Improved Knockdown
Great Cleave

Epic: Fighter 2/WM 6/ Rogue 2
21WM Great Strength I
22Ro
23WM
24WM Overwhelming Critical: Halberd, Devastating Critical: Halberd
25WM
26F
27F Epic Weapon Focus: Halberd, Epic Weapon Specialization: Halberd
28Ro
29WM
30WM Armor Skin, Epic Prowess

That's the generic 16 WM but that's for a one-hander. I'll probably drop armor skin and epic prowess for Great Strength III instead for a two-hander. You might also want to look at the 11 Fighter/19 WM variation. These WMs are not much of a self buffer unless you count potions + the lovable flame weapon scrolls.

Or you could try the 24 Barbarian/4 Fighter/2 Rogue which works pretty well for twohanders with thundering rage, DR, self hastes, 10% speed, more hp, terrifying rage, more ab, might even have better saves(not sure) - it practically out damages and out paces the 16WM I reckon..

Mr Mago wrote:

Two hander?

With dev crit?

12 Fighter won't be enough.

*whap* Don't mislead the n00bs.

EDIT: Oh, he meant "Dual Wield", not "Twohanded Weapon". My bad.

I decided to test that, actually. Two-hander barbarian versus 16+ WM of the same Strength and weapon.

My barbarian 25/Fighter 4/ Rogue 1(who uses a scythe) has 30 natural strength has 50 AB when calm, though he has epic prowess. Berserking brings that up to 56 AB and HP breaks 600. His damage is respectable, but his crit-chance is so low that it doesn't really make up for his lack of AC. High HP and terrifying rage was nice. AC was a bit better, but still atrocious. Crits were around 200 when in rage and with flame weapon. ~170s without

On the otherhand, I tested out a Fighter 14/WM 16 with 30 natural strength. Came out to 52 AB, and HP in the 400s after equipment. Saves ended up being slightly better with this one. Damage was overall better (The crit range was doubled, afterall), and when those crits occured, they were in the mid-200s generally. Defense was balls. Then again, both of them are.

Barbarian'll survive a bit better, but the WM will nuke them harder.

EDIT: I will say, though, the WM build is really freaking boring compared to the barbarian one.

So even a 12fighter/16WM/2rogue is tight on feats.. meh. Skill points would go into the standard diciplin, tumble, UMD... heal pattern?

You're right Bobo, the WM out damages the barbie one easy. Silly me to think otherwise.

After scribbling down the numbers... On normal hits, the barbie hits by 5 more damage thanks to his rage but that's about it. The WM wins by about 20 more damage per critical strike AND crits twice as more.

I wonder if the ranger could hold up against a WM - not counting the pet...

Torin, 8 fighter/6 monk/16 WM got creamed by Clasah, 25 ranger/4 fighter/bard 1, in PvP, but he was her Favored Enemy and she had a scimitar and Torin is famously bad in PvP!

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

I decided to test that, actually. Two-hander barbarian versus 16+ WM of the same Strength and weapon.

My barbarian 25/Fighter 4/ Rogue 1(who uses a scythe) has 30 natural strength has 50 AB when calm, though he has epic prowess. Berserking brings that up to 56 AB and HP breaks 600. His damage is respectable, but his crit-chance is so low that it doesn't really make up for his lack of AC. High HP and terrifying rage was nice. AC was a bit better, but still atrocious. Crits were around 200 when in rage and with flame weapon. ~170s without

On the otherhand, I tested out a Fighter 14/WM 16 with 30 natural strength. Came out to 52 AB, and HP in the 400s after equipment. Saves ended up being slightly better with this one. Damage was overall better (The crit range was doubled, afterall), and when those crits occured, they were in the mid-200s generally. Defense was balls. Then again, both of them are.

Barbarian'll survive a bit better, but the WM will nuke them harder.

EDIT: I will say, though, the WM build is really freaking boring compared to the barbarian one.

But, the Barb has more HP and more DR than the WM and the Barbarian has a higher AB (essential for actually trying to hit high AC people). In PvM, the extra DR is needed to save on heal kits/heals. They (usually) also have more CON than the typical WM because they don't have to assign pts into Intelligence if they don't want to, assuming both have maxxed STR at the start as much as possible without hurting other stats too much. Most Barbs will probably take Toughness in there too, just for that extra omph on the HP.

The extra DR and HP a Barb gets, could make the difference between chugging the next heal spam pot or dying in PvP, assuming neither Dev. Critter rolls a 1 during the whole time of the fight on a crit.

In short, Barbs vs. WMs is still a close call, far closer than one would think by looking at the damage alone.

You'll be short on feats no matter your build, if you want both WM and Dev Crit. You can squeeze in the essentials, but extra flair and customization is difficult.

Even if you dropped WM to 7 (you'd lose 2 AB), you'd only gain 2 extra feats from Fighter: you get bonus feats at WM 13 and 16 anyhow. It'll work just fine, but generally isn't worth it unless you have something you specifically want.

Not a drastic nerf, either way, so I suppose it's a matter of taste.

One of the classic WM builds is fighter20/7WM/3rogue.

All the feats in the world, all the damage in the world, all the sneaky goodness and UMD/Tumble you need.

Mr Mago wrote:

Two hander?

With dev crit?

12 Fighter won't be enough.

Sure as hell is.

He meant dual wielding, not two handed. I tripped up too.

Dualwielder?

Handaxes and Faux Dualwield fool.

Okie dokes, I'm slowly crystalising thoughts on Dram's build but I'm having trouble visualising what order to take epic levels for the build in order to fit it all in.

Yesterday, we came up with the idea of Barbarian24/2fighter/4rogue.

She needs to fit in Thundering Rage, Terrifying Rage, Overwhelming Crit, Devastating Crit, Great Str III (to get her to STR26 base from 16 base from level 1). I am guessing that the 2 fighter levels will give her 2 free feats and I'm hoping to land say, Overwhelming Crit and Devastating Criticals on those levels. The overall game plan is to make her a tribal dev. critter cornersneak, using the forest to her advantage, she'll be able to take a hit or three, dish it out and then disappear back into the foliage ready to strike again.

That's sounds cool! What armor and shield (if one hander) would he be using?

She's using a twohanded Scimmy (being a Hin). I figure she'll get buffed by party members/pots in a hunting party (wizzies are a dime a dozen) but during one on one type PvP, she just needs to hide, heal up and go again so shield is pointless. She carries a shield and handaxe, in case the going gets tough but its more simply a matter of buying time to knock down a heal pot or whatever.

Anyway, just need help on working out level order and feat order?

I came up with one possible order but, is this the best order? Also, is it possible to take epic feats with the two bonus fighter feats like I show below?

21. Barb 21 – Great Str 1 (Str22/+6)
22. Rogue1 – Sneak Attack d6
23. Rogue 2 - Evasion
24. Barb22 – Great Str 2 + 1STR (STR24/+7)
25. Fighter1 – Overwhelming Critical
26. Rogue3 – Sneak Attck (2d6)
27. Barb23 – Terrifying Rage
28. Fighter2 – Devastating Critical + 1 Str (25/+7)
29.Barb24 – Thundering Rage
30. Rogue4 – Great STR3 (26/+8)

Barb26/Druid or Ranger1/Rogue3 sounds more foresty to me. Also, I wouldn't take any rogue levels pre-epic. Just to spare that one point of BAB.

I originally had the idea of Ranger/Rogue, but the only trouble is, I would only get 25STR, meaning only DC38 for Dev. Crit and 37STR rather than STR38 (including gear). Ranger 1 gives one feat slot (but not Dev or Overwhelming Crit feat?) but then I lose a feat. Give that up for extra move silently and hide in the forest I guess? She doesn't need to dual wield either but the animal empathy bit could help out, if only I had enough skill pts for everything! XD

I'm not planning on taking a single rogue level before level 21.

Just to be clear.

The Druid idea sounds interesting, especially the +2 to attacks bit, maybe Barb26/Druid1/rogue3? There again, she really needs the extra hide/MS pts and that sounds more like ranger to me.

Oooh! I see what you mean, Druid 4 gives just enough long lasting buffs to make it worthwhile, access to Druid scrolls, and up to +18 Hide! No UMD though but the trade off is probably worth it (especially with that free +2 to attack, equivalent of EWF). Hmm ...still need to fit in enough feats to get Thundering rage though...somehow....

24 Barb 4Fighter 2Rogue is alot neater for my mind.

Epic Weapon Focus or Armor Skin is always nice. and 3/4 rogue isn't going to make much of a difference overall (given uncanny dodge is given to a Barb anyway).

Yush, that's the sad fact we must admit. 24/4/2 is the trusty build that never fails.

Wait.

Does Death Attacks Stack with Sneak Attack?'

How does Death Attack work nowdays btw?

This thread could be 1/3rd shorter if people would be more familiar with the NWNWiki. Maybe it can be linked somewhere in big, bright letters?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Death_attack

And afaik, the only change is that Freedom negates the paralysis.

xordae wrote:

This thread could be 1/3rd shorter if people would be more familiar with the NWNWiki. Maybe it can be linked somewhere in big, bright letters?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Death_attack

And afaik, the only change is that Freedom negates the paralysis.

Woho! I stacks!

I had a couple ideas for a character that was based on a undead/demon/things that go bump in the night hunter.

1. Wis/cha based cleric. It would be caster cleric with a bit of pally mixed in to take advantage of the cha bonus and martial weapons. Div might and shield to help in melee with all the cleric goodies which should give you a decent ab. You would have sunbeam, wof, earthquake and a few other spells that might make the cleric levels worth it. Throw in one tumble class for ac.

2. Or maybe a ranger. Favored enemy in undead/creepythings ect. Go 20+ for Bane. I was thinking str based to get past the dr resistance that are usually on undead/demons ect. Mix in some cot to help with saves and feats and a tumble class.

Which would work best on amia in pvm and pvp?

A Ranger is a good choice if you want to bash a spesific enemy. With many Ranger levels (25+) you geta good selection of fav enemies, high damage against them, good effect from your Blade Thirst spell, a nasty animal companion, and a pretty AB score.

As for dex vs strenght, its all a matter of wether you want to deal a bit more damage, or have abit more AC and sneaking capabilities.

If you go strenght, Ranger 29/rogue 1 cant fail.

A general note: The more Ranger levels, the better.

xordae wrote:

This thread could be 1/3rd shorter if people would be more familiar with the NWNWiki. Maybe it can be linked somewhere in big, bright letters?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Death_attack

And afaik, the only change is that Freedom negates the paralysis.

Look at page 1 now.

QPR wrote:

A Ranger is a good choice if you want to bash a spesific enemy. With many Ranger levels (25+) you geta good selection of fav enemies, high damage against them, good effect from your Blade Thirst spell, a nasty animal companion, and a pretty AB score.

As for dex vs strenght, its all a matter of wether you want to deal a bit more damage, or have abit more AC and sneaking capabilities.

If you go strenght, Ranger 29/rogue 1 cant fail.

A general note: The more Ranger levels, the better.

25 ranger/4 fighter/1 bard (rogue) or 24 ranger/4 fighter/2 rogue. I just hased this out last night with Ron. Good stuff. No Dev but you put so much damage downwind on your favored enemies they'll swear it was.

You could also take a look at 25Ranger/4Paladin/1Rogue.

Divine Might & Divine Shield, CHA saves, Brew potion - make yourself a ton of bless weapon potions, and the always awesome ranger pet (which should also be able to drink your bless weapon potions).

You can squeeze in Devastating Critical if you go 14 CHA, but it's really not needed nor recommended. Aim for +10 CHA and a good balance stats for STR, CON, and DEX (for the Kumakawa armor). Pick up a bludgeoning weapon for undead whilst wearing the kumakawa armor and you could dual wield without worry.

Edit: Hm, not sure if Kumakawa is a light armor...

Alright, looking to make an Tiefling with Dogai (Assasin Devil) blood. Naturally, the character would be a sneak in combat, but would an actual Assasin build be good? Or just rogue. The initial idea was Rogue/SD/Assasin, something along that idea. But would it be better just to go Rogue/SD?

ticket wrote:

Edit: Hm, not sure if Kumakawa is a light armor...

Studded Leather. Sure is.

TormakSaber wrote:

25 ranger/4 fighter/1 bard (rogue) or 24 ranger/4 fighter/2 rogue. I just hased this out last night with Ron. Good stuff. No Dev but you put so much damage downwind on your favored enemies they'll swear it was.

The buffs that the pet gets at 25 make the 24/4/2 flavour into a near miss.

ticket wrote:

You could also take a look at 25Ranger/4Paladin/1Rogue.

Divine Might & Divine Shield, CHA saves, Brew potion - make yourself a ton of bless weapon potions, and the always awesome ranger pet (which should also be able to drink your bless weapon potions).

You can squeeze in Devastating Critical if you go 14 CHA, but it's really not needed nor recommended. Aim for +10 CHA and a good balance stats for STR, CON, and DEX (for the Kumakawa armor). Pick up a bludgeoning weapon for undead whilst wearing the kumakawa armor and you could dual wield without worry.

Edit: Hm, not sure if Kumakawa is a light armor...

Now that is a bit interesting. The only thing would be if you want to duel wield wouldn't you want to go dex based ranger to help with the ac. I was thinking more str based. Just sword and board it. Never though of the pally mix though. Great with the saves, no fear ect which is helpful with the undead/demons of the lands.

I think I might be leaning a bit more to the the caster cleric type but are they viable at high lvls on amia or do you just turn into a weak melee cleric with some heals/restores. Or I should ask if high level divine spells are worth investing feats into?

Grapeshot wrote:

Now that is a bit interesting. The only thing would be if you want to duel wield wouldn't you want to go dex based ranger to help with the ac. I was thinking more str based. Just sword and board it. Never though of the pally mix though. Great with the saves, no fear ect which is helpful with the undead/demons of the lands.

Great thing about rangers is they get dual wield and improved two weapon fighting feats for free!

And as long as you don't wear a medium or heavy armor you don't have to worry about ambidexterity and two weapon fighting feats, you can raise STR as high as you want. You could leave your DEX between 10 - 14 and make up what you lack with a Belt of Agility and DEX potions so you can maximize your AC on a light armor.

With +10 CHA Divine shield, tumble dump, and armor skin you've more than enough AC to allow you to get fancy and drop your shield vs mobs.

Grapeshot wrote:

I think I might be leaning a bit more to the the caster cleric type but are they viable at high lvls on amia or do you just turn into a weak melee cleric with some heals/restores. Or I should ask if high level divine spells are worth investing feats into?

One can never go wrong with a Cleric, imo. Caster or not, clerics can always go melee without worry in Amia. Simply save some 2nd, 5th, 6th slots for extended divine favors, divine power, and battletide for yourself on top of the usual buffs.

Repeat after me: Balanced Hands.

ShadowSoul89 wrote:

Alright, looking to make an Tiefling with Dogai (Assasin Devil) blood. Naturally, the character would be a sneak in combat, but would an actual Assasin build be good? Or just rogue. The initial idea was Rogue/SD/Assasin, something along that idea. But would it be better just to go Rogue/SD?

I dont like the Assassin class.

Death Attack is awful, it will hardly ever work (Especially against a PC built to resist Dev Crit or someone wearing a belt of agility). And youre running the constant risk of being discovered if you carry Death Attack around with you.

Something I read on this thread a lot is "Whats the best necromancer build?" and the answer is "Wizard(30) in black". I feel the same about Assassin. "Whats the best Assassin build?" - Something with Dev Crit, make the assassin angle RP rather than mechanical. IMO.

STR based Rogue/FTR/SD. :idea:

The best necromancer is a wiz 30 in black.

The best assassin is a sorc 30 in black.

ctrl+c ctrl+v from where it didnt belong:

Only build I do encourage is pure build casters.

They're easy, max the caster ability: wis for druids and clerics, int for wizards and cha for sorc. The rest of the ability scores on character creation should go to con or int if you need/want to spend more skills and make sure no ability is less then 10.

Pick a school of magic to focus in and take the three spell focii feats along with metamagic extended, empower and maximized. Put all ability points in the caster ability and take a few great <ability> feats in epic but make sure you end with a even ability score!

People loves heals, hastes, buffs, debuffs for enemies, counterspelling bosses and pure dished out spelldamage.

The pure build caster never fails in a party.

It's also awfully dull.

Looking to make an elven-model bard. Combat-capable, hopefully with Dev Crit. Pure Bard, Bard/Ftr, Bard/CoT, Bard/BG, don't know.
Bard, go?

Pure Bard, Bard26/Fighter4, Bard25/Fighter4/CoT1, Bard26/CoT2/Fighter2, Bard26/BG3/Fighter1, are my humble, easy and fun suggestions.

CoT1? Not Cleric 1?

No, although that works as well.

Well, my knowledge about bards is fairly limited. In other words, I know they sing, get UMD and are one prerequisite for RDD. So basically I'd need a lot of help with this one.

The problem is that every bard is combat capable and can get Dev. There are hundreds of alternatives for a bard, you'll just have to pick one. Bard25/PDK1/Fighter4?

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