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Is there any ETA on when this is going to be applied to the server?

A shifter is never late, etc etc.

It might be nice to apply some of the same changes to ones like the goblin mage and fairy, maybe give the goblin mage more spells.

Geld Yaztran wrote:

It might be nice to apply some of the same changes to ones like the goblin mage and fairy, maybe give the goblin mage more spells.

maybe, but I think the amia added forms were like "hey we buffed all the other classes and gave them some cool items, have some silly forms so you cant say you got nothing"

Yeah, I'm not really interested in messing with those, tbh.

The only thing I would do to those is give them proper item merging.

You can't give shapes unlimited spells anyway. Up to 3 is the deal, I think.

3 "Special Abilities" which is pretty much anything in the big list of special abilities in the toolset.

This actually has me interested in a new toon, would BG aspects such as divine shield/might bulls cross over? Im loving the look of the anti mage golem

Yes, you could use Divine Might in a shifter form.

Craig deathwalker wrote:

This actually has me interested in a new toon, would BG aspects such as divine shield/might bulls cross over? Im loving the look of the anti mage golem

Yes they work.
Mind that shield is not very much worth it in general since the bonus AC each shape gets is dodge (just like shield)
They will stack, but a good chance you've already hit the 20AC cap with the shape AC + haste.

Perhaps make the demonflesh golem immune to positive, Seeing as how G ruin does 100D6 versus constructs which can take them out in one hit..

GabrielStryker wrote:

Perhaps make the demonflesh golem immune to positive, Seeing as how G ruin does 100D6 versus constructs which can take them out in one hit..

So there are downsides to your chosen form. *Shrugs* It seems reasonable that if you want he advantages, you live with the disadvantages IMO.

I think he suggested it because the Demonflesh golem is indeed Anti Mage.

A shifter I know has only roughly 200 HP in construct form due to low Con since there is no con bonus in construct forms for some reason, And due to the massive amount of Wis for this form A caster can cast one G ruin and do 100-600 damage roughly kiling it in one spell, So for an anti-mage type of construct, I do not think one spell should be able to infact kill it.

If I read the changes right and a few posts that were made, most base stats being low wont matter as much, since the forms will have their own?

I've had a Shifter on the cards for a while now, and put it on hold so i could
see the upcoming changes before making my decisions.

so it's not a chicken and egg case, i've wanted one for a while and didn't want to get disappointed and self rebuild when the balance was all wrong.

looking at the changes, i'm very much in the OMG woo! frame of mind, very nice work

Yay! Ranth is one of my (if not THE) favorite characters!

And this can only make him more fun! No more shall I have to use the minotaur form if I want to do ANY damage!

Can't wait for the changes!

Garnith wrote:

Yay! Ranth is one of my (if not THE) favorite characters!

And this can only make him more fun! No more shall I have to use the minotaur form if I want to do ANY damage!

Can't wait for the changes!

mindflayer's Psionic Mass Concussion spam?

So, um, we've hit a minor snag. Bioware doesn't allow us to equip items for dual wielding... so the kobold will keep its shortsword and the Drider will probably get a halberd to make up for losing 2 attacks. Or maybe just keep the spear. I'm not sure yet.

I told you so.

I'm sending you Foster's for your birthday.

bitch

Ooooh, drider with a halberd sounds cool

Could hang from the cieling like Spidey then *chop* their dead

He likes VB. Send him VB. Silly dingo.

are the risen lords 50% resistance to slashing and piercing still going to be there?

TeroSNS wrote:

are the risen lords 50% resistance to slashing and piercing still going to be there?

Dont go copying Cory, Tut Tut !

Muspelkvist wrote:

TeroSNS wrote:

are the risen lords 50% resistance to slashing and piercing still going to be there?

Dont go copying Cory, Tut Tut !

yeah copying me is not good for you staying alive

because I will kill you.

Risenlord Shifters are as old as their bones. Look up some NWN *.txt file guides and you'll find them.

nobody has actually answered my question... besides I haven't seen Cory in a while anyway... actually lets all copy Cory, so he has to kill the whole server xD

The entire point of being Risen Lord Skeleton is the 50% slash/pierce. Yes, it keeps it.

You also become vulnerable to bludgeoning, just like a real skeleton. Enjoy.

TormakSaber wrote:

The entire point of being Risen Lord Skeleton is the 50% slash/pierce. Yes, it keeps it.

You also become vulnerable to bludgeoning, just like a real skeleton. Enjoy.

I dont think skeletons are ment to be vulnerable to bludgeoning as much as they just dont take less damage from it, but if we want to play that game, I assume they will have more then 30 AC and also concealment of about 50% with the lack of stuff to hit being a wire frame.

Spectre is Incorporeal.
It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons)

incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it

incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be, no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight, can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own.

you tell 'im Cory! >8D
I think the skeletons are not vulnerable to bludgeon at all. Bludgeoning just damages them normally. This is becouse slashing and piercing damage affect mostly the flesh, which is soft and easily sliced, while a bone comes to its path it is quite hard to overcome it. Bludgeoning is the one to smash the bones into bits, while leaving mainly bruises and some smaller wounds to the flesh (rarely ripping the flesh apart).

and Skeletons are not affected by cold so tack on immunity to cold, also think electricity would not effect them as well when you think of it, might want to add immunity to that.

and looking at d20srd.org, looking at skeletons and lichs, it keeps poping up saying stuff like

Damage Reduction (Su)
A lich’s undead body is tough, giving the creature damage reduction 15/bludgeoning and magic

Damage Reduction (Ex)
A skeleton has damage deduction 5/bludgeoning. Skeletons lack flesh or internal organs.

so I dont see how it would be viewed as being vulnerable to bludgeoning any more then normal, as it seems they should have gotten damage reduction to it from the looks of it.

A hammer crushes bones much more effectively than a rapier.

Mr Mago wrote:

A hammer crushes bones much more effectively than a rapier.

yes, thats why skeletons dont take less damage from bludgeoning like they from slash/pierce, but that does not mean they would take more from blunt.

corypx wrote:

and Skeletons are not affected by cold so tack on immunity to cold, also think electricity would not effect them as well when you think of it, might want to add immunity to that.

and looking at d20srd.org, looking at skeletons and lichs, it keeps poping up saying stuff like

Damage Reduction (Su)
A lich’s undead body is tough, giving the creature damage reduction 15/bludgeoning and magic

Damage Reduction (Ex)
A skeleton has damage deduction 5/bludgeoning. Skeletons lack flesh or internal organs.

so I dont see how it would be viewed as being vulnerable to bludgeoning any more then normal, as it seems they should have gotten damage reduction to it from the looks of it.

In 3.5, Damage Reduction listing are listed as: "Damage Reduces/What Defeats the Reduction". So 15/bludgeon is "15 damage resistance to anything, unless the damage is bludgeoning, in which case it pypasses the damage".

Skeletons are not immune to cold and electricity, that's specifically a lich thing, and no, you will not get it even if it WAS because of balance reasons.

You get the vulnerability ebcause you're 50% immune to the other two damage types on top of being able to stack your own DR. It's called "Balance". It's not difficult to put two and two together and say "Hmm, maybe a different form would work better against the giant hammer weilding guy."

Your own fault for being a one trick pony in a class whose game is variety.

I think they would take more damage since they don't have that flesh to cushion the blow.

Cory was so trying to better his character *coughcough*

TormakSaber wrote:

Your own fault for being a one trick pony in a class whose game is variety.

I think you ment

Your own fault for being a one trick pony in a class whose game was ment to be variety but fell real short so lets all go monk dragon since what December 2004?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm

Immunity to Cold (Ex)
Skeletons are not affected by cold

Damage Reduction (Ex)
A skeleton has damage deduction 5/bludgeoning. Skeletons lack flesh or internal organs.

Mahtan Tasadur wrote:

I think they would take more damage since they don't have that flesh to cushion the blow.

do you think flesh does anything to cushion the blows to that of 25-50% of the damage.

In the real world, bludegeoning injuries are far worse than piercing or slashing ones 'cause they cause massive internal injuries. Human flesh isnt a cushion for anything really.

Still getting immunity to cold and lightning would be a bit much. Seeing as the forms are all getting improved now, 50% bludgeoning vulnerability is probably kinda fair as there are viable options.

On a sidenote...PLEASE can dragonshape get the same breath as the shapechange spell!!!

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

In the real world, bludegeoning injuries are far worse than piercing or slashing ones 'cause they cause massive internal injuries. Human flesh isnt a cushion for anything really.

Still getting immunity to cold and lightning would be a bit much. Seeing as the forms are all getting improved now, 50% bludgeoning vulnerability is probably kinda fair as there are viable options.

bludegeoning injuries are far worse because they cause massive internal injuries and Human flesh isnt a cushion for anything as said by you. so skeletons lacking flesh or anything internal how do they take more damage?

as for getting improved, its one of them I will belive it when I see it.

shifters have bad stats and AC that forced you to take monk dragon or get hit on most attacks

undead not being able to heal inform and tormak coding in a locked in Con, and with you needing to go lots of points in wisdom for your other feat forms or spells for druid(because your not a one trick pony). if your at like 1/3rd or 1/4 HP in form and you unshift you will die making the option kind of poor seeing how if heal potions were not such a big thing on amia NPCs would not have a never ending supply.

shifters dont get to merg glove/bracers ever, they cant use items in form(so scrolls ,use effects on items like heal kits/DC requests/black caravan stuff...ect all the stuff that you would use in combat that you cant use unless you leave form use it then return to form.)

Ive always thought they just had Piercing Immunity, them skelletons.

You know, Arrows just bounce off. There's nothig to aim at, unless you hit the Skull, and it gets pinned down the Eyeglobe. Wich isnt there.

Blunt "Crush" Bones,
Slashing "Cut" bones,

Dangeeerouuuss!

Quote:

shifters have bad stats and AC that forced you to take monk dragon or get hit on most attacks

This line invalidates every one of your arguments because you're talking about Bioware shifters, and the new Amian shifters 1: Won't benefit from monk Ac and 2: Will not have "bad stats and AC".

There is a reason I'm not telling you anything about balancing shifters, Cory, and this is it. You are an agenda pusher. You're not getting immunity to cold. You're not getting immunity to electricity. You're getting bludgeoning vulnerability.

Quote:

tormak coding in a locked in Con

I've already asked for a modal switch that takes either the form's locked stats or the shifter's natural stat, whichever is better. This is also being discussed in balance.

This ends the undead bludgeoning argument. Move on. You'll survive, Cory.

EDIT: BTW, if

Quote:

Damage Reduction (Ex)
A skeleton has damage deduction 5/bludgeoning. Skeletons lack flesh or internal organs.

Is really what you want, I'll happily give it to you. That means Risen Lord loses the 50% slahs/pierce and in return, has 5/- pierce and 5/- slash. I consider, with this in mind, keeping the 50% immunities and having a buldgeoning vulnerability to be more than generous.

TormakSaber wrote:

[There is a reason I'm not telling you anything about balancing shifters, Cory, and this is it. You are an agenda pusher

if I did not push my agenda shifters would still be trucking along like they have been since Dec 2004 till the server shuts down, and we have gone thought 1-2 times of shifter fix was being worked on and all the work was given up on, so I could have just given up and rolled dragon monk or just start a new player like most of the people who used to play shifters befor they got sick of being a heal potion and raisescoll vacuum.

tormak you know I only give you such a hard time because its been like this for so long and so few people care so trying to believe shifter wont keep geting bent over is kind of hard.

No, it was more "you're directly asking for severe undead form buffs when those are the only forms you use."

TormakSaber wrote:

Skeletons are not immune to cold and electricity, that's specifically a lich thing, and no, you will not get it even if it WAS because of balance reasons.

I do agree with how it is now, but as for that P. 226 of the MM does indeed say that skeletons are Immune to Cold (Ex)

TormakSaber wrote:

No, it was more "you're directly asking for severe undead form buffs when those are the only forms you use."

because you said

TormakSaber wrote:

You also become vulnerable to bludgeoning, just like a real skeleton. Enjoy.

but they are not any more vulnerable to it then any other race, and you said real skeleton so I pointed out some other stuff real skeletons get, but do you think I was expecting to get immunity to cold and electricity.

it would like me posting the all the stuff a vampire should get

Children of the Night,Dominate,Create Spawn,Gaseous Form...ect but at no point would I think the DM team was going to let me run around biting goblins and stuff to form a 1000 troll/goblin/kobold....ect army

and as for it being the only form I use, because till the shifter fix comes out our other forms are still underpowered.

Whatever. The updates look awesome.

Li'thani's going to kick some butt now when I play her!

meh, I am going to use drider mostly anyway until level 23... Still an estimate of these changes would be hawt... like giggly hawt... c'mon give us some sugarry estimate dates or months... or year!

A Shifter is never late.

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