AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

I know there's plenty of alternatives and Dev isn't a must, it's the first option that came to my mind. Also I've practically no knowledge in theory or use about Divine Mights, Shields, Wraths and such things. Which generally narrows the alternatives I can think of. Hence why I'm asking for help, a little more detailed than just a level structure.

Bards are wide open. Divine Shield, though, is a bit of a wasted feat. You'll be close 20 Dodge cieling after your buffs, and you should be at ~60 AC with a shield. I really can't argue against Divine might, though: It's great.

One trap I see a lot of bards fall into is totally killing their strength score. That's something that should be avoided, probably. Once bard gets high enough to completely buff itself, the problem is basically dealing damage. Your spells should see to survival.

So after trying things over and over on paper in the classroom, I came up with something like this. Character will be using Chain Shirts and Rapier, Epic Skill Focus in Perform and those are a must for RP's sake.

Lucas d'Mortis
Wood Elf Bard 23/CoT 6/Cleric 1

Stats:
Strength 16 -> 18
Dex 10
Con 12
Wis 8
Int 12 -> 10
Charisma 16 -------> 24 (In option two 26)

1. Bard - Curse Song
2. Bard -
3. Bard - Extend Spell
4. Bard - +1 Charisma
5. Bard -
6. Bard - Maximize Spell
7. Bard -
8. Bard - +1 Charisma
9. Bard - Weapon Focus Rapier
10. Bard -
11. Bard -
12. Bard - +1 Charisma, Power Attack
13. Bard -
14. Bard -
15. Cleric - Divine Might
16. CoT - +1 Charisma
17. CoT - Improved Critical Rapier
18. CoT - Blind-Fight
19. CoT - Weapon Specialization
20. Bard - +1 Charisma
21. Bard - Epic Skill Focus Perform
22. Bard -
23. Bard -
24. Bard - Great Charisma I, +1 Charisma
25. Bard -
26. Bard -
27. Bard - Lasting Inspiration
28. CoT - Epic Weapon Focus, +1 Charisma
29. CoT - Epic Weapon Specialization
30. Bard - Epic Fortitude

(In option two, switch Epic Weapon Focus or Spec and Epic Fort for Great CHA II & III)

Feedback? Comments?

First things that pops out to me:
- Weapon specialization can only be taken by a 4th level fighter.
- 15 Bard/ 4 CoT/ 1 Cleric doesn't net you a 4th attack. (I like having a 4th attack on my melee toons)

That's actually very true, not sure how I didn't think of that. Well, I remodeled it nonetheless.

1. Bard - Curse Song
2. Bard -
3. Bard - Extend Spell
4. Bard - +1 Charisma
5. Bard -
6. Bard - Weapon Focus Rapier
7. Bard -
8. Bard - +1 Charisma
9. Bard - Maximize Spell
10. Bard -
11. Bard -
12. Bard - +1 Charisma, Power Attack
13. Bard -
14. Bard -
15. Bard- Toughness
16. CoT - +1 Charisma
17. CoT - Improved Critical Rapier
18. CoT - Blind-Fight
19. CoT - Knockdown
20. Bard - +1 Charisma
21. Bard - Epic Skill Focus Perform
22. Bard -
23. Bard -
24. Bard - Lasting Inspiration, +1 Charisma
25. Bard -
26. Bard -
27. Cleric - Divine Might
28. CoT - Epic Weapon Focus, +1 Charisma
29. CoT -
30. Bard - Great Charisma, Epic Fortitude

Unless someone has better ideas instead of Toughness and KD?

The name and build suggests something quite else than your typical wood elf... Adopted by human nobles?

Adopted by a human actor-singer named Lucas d'Mortis. After the boy's human father-mentor died, he took the name as his alias/stage-name.

The bard Cot is going well for me so far.

Drop your CHA down to 18, please. You also have so many spare feats you could easily go Fighter and net EWS, which is GOD.

Toughness is silly.

Cha based bard without cha is odd.

If you aim for 18 Charisma, when thats buffed up with your Nymph Cloak etc, it will land on 30, which means 2 bonus level 6 spells, which means more mass haste. Anything over that is wasted aside from your divine might.

This seems like the appropriate place to ask, so my question is, do human subraces (such as chultan), suffer from the multiclass exp penalty?

Divine Wrath:

Not really asking about it in relation to a build, but figured this was the best place for it.

What's the concensus on it? A decent feat, used fairly often? I know it's only 1xday, so kinda rules it out for PvM, but boss battles and PvP I figured. PC's that have it, do you use it often, or just tap it every once in a while for just the sake of using it?

Divine Wrath is always roxor boxorz good in PvBoss, but in PvP it's not that good in most occasions; better to cast something more relevant instead of that. Only my opinion, though.

Avidgamer wrote:

This seems like the appropriate place to ask, so my question is, do human subraces (such as chultan), suffer from the multiclass exp penalty?

Yush. Each subrace has a favourite class of their own.

I'm kind of hesitant to take a non-slashing weapon for my bard's primary weapon. The damage type is certainly helpful, but I fall victim to the allure of mythal freedom on my weapons.

EDIT: Luck of Heroes might be worth consideration. It's a simple, but awesome, feat.

Old'n'Stout warhammer has keen on it. x3 damage is nice + even better, most people don't have DR against bludgeoning, it smacks undead skellies well and makes a nice sound when it hits. If you're M size, you can also have a Board o Protection too.

You can mythal the Old'n'Stout to your heart's content.

You completely missed my point. The point of using keen edge is to free up a mythal slot. Permanent keen on a hammer is still using up one of those slots.

Oops! sorry, well, there's other good hammers around without keen on it. In fact the vast majority of them don't have it but do have other interesting properties instead. It doesn't sound like you're keen on heavier weapons so point taken then.

I'd like some help with my plain old fighter/weapon master build.

I've currently got him as 8/3 ftr/wm with cleave, dodge, expertise, imp crit (halberd), mobility, power attack, spring attack, weapon focus, weapon specialization and whirlwind attack.

Current Stats:
STR 19
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 8

What should the rest of my levels look like to get the most out of the build? What are the pros/cons of 16 WM vs 7 WM? Should I tack a level of rogue on at the end? I'd like Devcrit, and a decent AB for the DC.

16 WM is going to be 2 more AB you can't get anywhere else. AB is good, it means you can run power attack more easily and hit things better. It's 2 epic feats too,but you'll have bazillions of them anyways. If you want to go all out, you could do 11 fighter/19 wepaonmaster but that means you've got no tumble, and since you're being awesome and using a halberd, your AC will be utter cack.

I'm not sure how many skill points you've got but the basic 12 fighter/16 WM/2 rogue will serve you well here. You take both rogue in eic to keep your AB high, with the second at 27 or higher so you can get 30 tumble and some UMD.

I've been playing around with the 12/16/2 build on an auto leveler, and it seems impossible to get Armorskin, Epic Prowess, Great STR I and II, Dev Crit, EWF and EWS. Which are the must haves?

I'm assuming I don't take KD and just use the ring of the ram. Is improved expertise worth taking?

Quote:

Armorskin, Epic Prowess, Great STR I and II, Dev Crit, EWF and EWS

21 greta strength, 24 great strength, 27 overwhelming, 30 dev, asuming your STR works out right.

assuming 10 fighter/10 WM pre epic, that means you need to take your last 2 fighter level late. 13 WM is Armor Skin, 16 is Epic Weapon Focus, 12 fighter is Epic Spec. I doubt you can fit Epic Prowess. Normally that's what the people who start on 18 STR get to use because they only need 1 great STR to end at 26 (38 STR and a comfortable Dev.

You can move those around a lot to get things earlier or later but that looks right to me offhand.

That's going to work perfectly. Thanks Tormak!

I changed Rapier to Longsword and went from 36 CHA, 30 STR to 36 STR, 30 CHA.

Are thundering rage and mighty rage costumized on Amia?

ClockworkRed wrote:

Are thundering rage and mighty rage costumized on Amia?

They don't have special costumes, but you can read all about how we've customized the feats here: http://www.amiaworld.net/about/prestige_classes.html

They seem to have costumes, I can't find anything about the epic rage feats there.

Not 100% sure on this but I think I did hear that Thundering Rage in Amia behaves slightly differently. *shrugs*

Those feats are unchanged, but they work with the modified Amia rages.

Thundering Rage adds 1D8 Sonic to your Weapon and OnHit Stun DC20. It works with the Amia Modified Greater Rage and the Amia Special Rage widget versions.

Really quick and really noob question. Epic Clerics can cast Epic Spell: Dragon Knight, right? This will effect my build if they cannot. Thanks.

They can, and the duration is influenced by epic spell focus: Conjuration.

So without Epic spell focus it's Rounds/Caster lvl, with Epic spell focus it's turns/Caster.

So I have a Ranger 18/Rogue 1 currently. I'm going the Dev Crit route as I've never had before and am only committed to Ranger 21/Rogue 2 for dumps, Blade Thirst, and for the Bane of Enemies. As for the other 7 levels, I'm not really committed to anything. I could just go with Ranger but I'm not big on the Companion in this context so was thinking about mixing it up. I was thinking of maybe CoT for the Saves help and feats but that really only nets me the Saves because the bonus feats are the same I would get committing to Ranger.

I guess the question is would it be worth it to go CoT for at least 6 levels rather than just staying with Ranger? Is there a better idea someone would do?

krytellan wrote:

So I have a Ranger 18/Rogue 1 currently. I'm going the Dev Crit route as I've never had before and am only committed to Ranger 21/Rogue 2 for dumps, Blade Thirst, and for the Bane of Enemies. As for the other 7 levels, I'm not really committed to anything. I could just go with Ranger but I'm not big on the Companion in this context so was thinking about mixing it up. I was thinking of maybe CoT for the Saves help and feats but that really only nets me the Saves because the bonus feats are the same I would get committing to Ranger.

I guess the question is would it be worth it to go CoT for at least 6 levels rather than just staying with Ranger? Is there a better idea someone would do?

24 ranger, take a second rogue level, and take 4 fighter for wepaon spec/epic weapon spec.

maglorine wrote:

Thundering Rage adds 1D8 Sonic to your Weapon and OnHit Stun DC20. It works with the Amia Modified Greater Rage and the Amia Special Rage widget versions.

Has that been modified from the standard 2d8 Sonic damage then? Twould be nice to maybe have that under the classes changed section?

Bioware default Thundering Rage adds 2d8 Massive Crits, not flat Sonic damage. The onhit was Deafen, perhaps the most useless one of all.

It's utter junk, so we made it really rather spiffy.

TormakSaber wrote:

....and take 4 fighter for wepaon spec/epic weapon spec.

I think you need 6 levels of Fighter for both since

NWNWiki on WS:
* This feat can only be chosen when gaining a fighter level.
* Four fighter levels are required to take this feat, not merely being a (multiclassed) fighter with a base attack of 4.

and

on EWS:
This feat can only be taken on a fighter or champion of Torm level.

Or is it possible to take the 4th fighter level at an epic level with an bonus feat and take WS+EWS at this same level?

Torin wrote:

Or is it possible to take the 4th fighter level at an epic level with an bonus feat and take WS+EWS at this same level?

Yeah. As long as you already have EWF.

Yeap. Standard is timing the 4th fighter at levels 24, 27, or 30 usually so you can get both.

Last edited by Dervish on Tue, Oct 06 2009, 5:05 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I have a level 14 Cleric with the Death Domain summons. Can someone tell me the difference between the level 22 and level 27 summons?

I'm trying to decide whether to take 23 Cleric / 4 Fighter (to get EWS), or 27 Cleric.

edit: He'll end up with Str 18, Wis 20 (relying on spells to boost his AB).

Got a query on Arcane Archery. If your cleric has magic domain (mine does), can you cast say ice storm on your arrows for the 1d6 cold damage bonus? Is it recognised as a wizzy spell or will it interpret it as a divine spell? I'll find out in a level or three I guess but t'would be interesting to know in advance so I'm not disappointed.

I think it works. Not sure.

Dervish wrote:

I have a level 14 Cleric with the Death Domain summons. Can someone tell me the difference between the level 22 and level 27 summons?

I'm trying to decide whether to take 23 Cleric / 4 Fighter (to get EWS), or 27 Cleric.

Id say it depends on your other stats, are you str, wis, or cha based?

GreatPigeon wrote:

Dervish wrote:

I have a level 14 Cleric with the Death Domain summons. Can someone tell me the difference between the level 22 and level 27 summons?

I'm trying to decide whether to take 23 Cleric / 4 Fighter (to get EWS), or 27 Cleric.

Id say it depends on your other stats, are you str, wis, or cha based?

He'll end with STR 18, WIS 20 (relying on spells to boost AB). But I'm just trying to find out if it's worth sacrificing 4 Fighter levels for any extra/improved abilities of the summons. That's all I'm asking.

The 22 summon sits between your level 9 summon and EDK.

The 27 summon is better than the EDK.

and if you go high enough in level and are the proper alignement theres always Gate.

soundofastream wrote:

Got a query on Arcane Archery. If your cleric has magic domain (mine does), can you cast say ice storm on your arrows for the 1d6 cold damage bonus? Is it recognised as a wizzy spell or will it interpret it as a divine spell? I'll find out in a level or three I guess but t'would be interesting to know in advance so I'm not disappointed.

You won't care. When you get to the Thay chap in Zanshibon, let alone the AA-only ones, you won't use the custom Imbue feat again.

belgianbonzai wrote:

and if you go high enough in level and are the proper alignement theres always Gate.

Well to further it along a bit.

The 22 Summon is good enough with appropriate bard/wizard buffing, whilst the 27 Summon only requires what a cleric gives and will be able to tank for you in Abyss/Manor/Actand.

Thats on the good/neutral scale mind.

Might aswell suggest my idea here since Uce will see it straight off.

Would it be possible/appropriate to nerf/buff the good/neutral summon to being an anti undead specialist. Would require removing the stupidly broken scythe (and it is) giving it a heavy flail w/ versus undead divine damage and possibly adding the WM improved Critical Modifier on the very last upgrade.

Go and make a TtC thread about it, lazy swine.

I would but I don't want anyone to /wrist over it. Totally better hiding it in here . . . fine.

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