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I'd say the Paladin would have to personally know the Tiefling to be "good", ie, personal experience with them, not just lack of an evil aura, or said Tiefling would have to be vouched for by people who the Paladin knows and has a great deal of trust/respect for.

In either case he'd probably be keeping a close eye on them throughout. Paladins aren't really generally the 'benefit of the doubt' types.

Guys, she said she's after the DM teams response ... I don't want to see this thread turned into one of the six-page threads on tieflings and paladins and how nobody RPs anything right and ends in a lock.

Last edited by TormakSaber on Mon, Oct 12 2009, 5:20 AM, edited 1 time in total.

The Paladin "Should" act according to his personal interpretation of the god's dogma and his own duties as a character and not according to how everyone else tells you to act. That doesn't necessarily mean your god agrees with it though. Welcome to the world of Paladins.

My personal paladin would probably flat out refuse unless he pinged up non evil on a Detect Evil and he could provably show his dedication to being Good. Not just "not being Evil" but "Neing Good".

Quote:

Because of Divine Grace or Dark Blessing, said classes could have a low dex score(let's say 8 ), but still a relatively high Reflex save. How does that translate ICly, if at all. I was under the impression that high reflex in such a way but low dex would mean a character could still roll, jump, or flip out of the way of something, but only as a reflex, not like on command or actually trying to. Is that about right?

Divine Intervention on a minute scale is my personal preference but really anything works. "Divine Insight" regarding reflexes is perfectly doable. He is simply compelled to do whatever. Pehraps an Ilmateri doesn't actually dodge, but simply takes the spell and Divine Grace shrugs off the damage. Perhaps a Banite shoves his fist into the fireball and the Dark Power of Bane shunts the blast away from him. There's a lot of flavor you can do with these things, I encourage you to use it!

Ooh, and perhaps like a wisp of wind that arises to deflect the blast around the Bahamutan pally? I like...

Thank ya, Tormak!

J.G. wrote:

Does being a Halruaan mage qualify you for knowing basic Netherese information? like travel records, who ruled what, what fell were...ext..maybe a few non-epic Netherese spells....:?:

TormakSaber wrote:

I'd say being either Thayan or Halruaan raised and born entitles you to basic knowledge, yes.

Meant to reply to this sooner, apparently forgot to hit submit.

Shadovar should also be entitled basic knowledge as well. Along with Halruaans, the Shadovar are the other direct descendants of the Netherese.

Sadrin wrote:

Best guess is he's asking whether the Temple of Waukeen has some specific official function/position within the City, or if it's just a Temple that happens to be in the city.

Meant that, yush. Thank you.

How do Paladin's not go insane when staying near Cordor?

I actually remedy this with one of my characters. He's not a paladin, but a LG monk of an LG deity, so close enough.

Simply, he doesn't -live- there and he doesn't -stay- there any more than he has to. He actually resides in Kohlingen. It's a simple as that. Most paladins would not want to live in a place where they are repeatedly and quite often coming in contact with people/humanoids that are in direct opposition of thier faith and goodiness. Just like wal-mart, "get your **** and get out" sort of deal.

So in truth a paladin probably risks "going insane" if he sticks around long enough in Cordor. Standing on a corner being forced to look at a banite priest and not being able to confront him or challenge his doctrine because of the law seems like it could drive em nuts. A lot of the criticism that comes from people not playing pallys like pallys could be solved by putting yourself in the PC's shoes.

Or that could have been rhetorical.... I was bored.

I got some questions about Mulan socity:

1: Just how are slaves treated? I know they are treated better than other places, but what rights/freedoms does a slave have in Mulhorand? And how do slaves keep their hair?

2: Society in general. Who are the nobility? How did they become nobility? What is the status of the nobility? Are they like Feudal Lords? Can those not of nobility rise to nobility through deeds or wealth? How are commoners treated by the nobility?

Take a look there. About the hair: shaving your head is a symbol of status. Male clergy has a bald shaven head with blue circles painted, females also shave their head and then wear wigs. Slaves have "normal" hair then I guess.

When I got more time I'll add better detailed lore to our faction thread.

Are there any Neutral-aligned versions or equivalents of Water Weirds that anyone can think of, besides a Water Elemental?

Not that I know of. There are many different types of Water Elementals though. For example, water elemental ruler and primal water elemental.

I assume you're looking for something that can blend into water like the Water Weird?

Somewhat. I like the alien-ness of the Water Weirds and their lack of humanizing qualities or appearance, as opposed to a majority of other elementally aligned critters. The seem of sentient forces rather than sentient "creatures" to me, driven more by needs and urges than complex, often conflicting wants like those of more (anthrotypical) familiar-to-us or like-us critters.

I have only a couple hard copies at hand, at the moment, and I can't find much along these lines that isn't essentially a dressed up, Elemental-dipped humanoid.

Can anyone tell me what exactly makes a Dwarven Waraxe different from a regular battle axe, from a lore and appearance standpoind?

I know that NWN toolset dwarven axes only uses two specific heads for them, the arrow looking one and the double cresent one, but you can choose to make them look just like the battle axe ones, as well as vice versa. Is the only difference, other than origin, that a dwarven waraxe has a heavier head or unfamiliar shape?

I imagine dwarven waraxes are specifically balanced for a Dwarf (which is why they're Exotic), have different weights and balance points, are made out of different metals, and all sorts of blacksmith forg-ey stuff. Same reason Elven Longswords and Courtblades do different damage than normal ones.

The subtlety that takes place in creating a dwarven waraxe is so particular and specific, it has become a part of dwarven legend.

It is, however, so subtle as to be unweildly- including to dwarves, who must take a feat to use them, same as anyone else.

In hindsight, they probably should've just made the blades bigger, or something, but it's tradition now, and what can a dwarf do.

In PnP, Dwarves have free proficiency with th e dwarven weapons: The Waraxe and the Urgosh, just like Elves have special proficiencies with the Elf weapons and half orcs have proficiencies with double axes.

Dwarven Waraxes, however, didn't exist at first when NWN vanilla got made and they just chose not to add it in later when it came into existence.

What exactly is the Reverie, in detail? How much Elf do you have to be to be able to enter the Reverie (Half? Quarter? Any amount?)

Also, after as long as it took to search each page to figure out if this had been answered already, can we start a new Lore Thread?

Reverie is a trance that elves fall into, where they 'dream' mental exercises. They need to do this four hours a day, and get the same benefits as a human would for eight hours of sleep.
I'd say half elves can enter Reverie too, given that they are sleep-immune also, although in D&D there are no quarter races (unless specified as a separate race, of course): Half Elf + Elf = Elf (probably human looking, with some cosmetic difference but still mechanically an elf), Half Elf + Human = Human (with the same exception) and Half Elf + Half Elf ... I can't remember which way that swings, but Half Elf seems to make sense.

This is all if I recall correctly, of course, I'm not an expert on elves.

LollipopSpider wrote:

What exactly is the Reverie, in detail? How much Elf do you have to be to be able to enter the Reverie (Half? Quarter? Any amount?)

Also, after as long as it took to search each page to figure out if this had been answered already, can we start a new Lore Thread?

Reverie is a bit more than just what Yurell mentioned. All what he said is true on Reverie, but it fails to join the dots a bit more.

An Elf has a spirit, not a soul. The Elven race, was formed by the Blood of Corellon being spilt in his battle against the Orc god, Gruumsh. It is fundamentally linked to Arvandor and the Seldarine (whether you like it or not) as a spirit. Elves, have a body, but Elves do not die in the traditional sense of the word, naturally. Instead, an Elven spirit is so interwined with the weave and the natural world that the Elf, as they age, start to have their spirit shine greater than their bodies. Ancient Elves, those who stick around for many centuries, look almost translucent in appearance because of this...eventually the spirit no longer has use for the body and is ready to ascend to Arvandor, the home of the Seldarine (Elven Gods). Elves don't die, they just fade away...unnatural death's are the exception.

So interwined is their spirit with Arvandor, the Weave and the Natural World that an Elf must commune with these things in what is called Reverie. That is why Elves Reverie.

Most of this is outlined in several sources but my latest reading of this is from "Races of the Wild".

SoaS, I've heard that the Reverie is somewhat communal in a more immediate sense also, being something similar to an empathetic/sympathetic bond while being done at the same time as other elves in the area. I can't remember where I originally heard this, so I'm curious if it has a source.

I've seen somewhere that elves don't "Dream" so much as remember things. I can't seem to remember where it was, it might've been one of the Last Mythal books..

Is this correct, or..?

They don't dream according to the PHB, although I don't know what canon FR material says about it.

LollipopSpider wrote:

SoaS, I've heard that the Reverie is somewhat communal in a more immediate sense also, being something similar to an empathetic/sympathetic bond while being done at the same time as other elves in the area. I can't remember where I originally heard this, so I'm curious if it has a source.

Based on extremely vague memories, as I don't have any elven books with me at the moment. I believe elven women..'share' reverie with their unborn children, and that it can also be shared via some process with a mate/partner. Not, AFAIK, really a 'group' thing so much as particular bonds.

I could be wrong though, I never paid much attention to the treehuggers.

Yurell wrote:

They don't dream according to the PHB, although I don't know what canon FR material says about it.

They can sleep, instead of Reverie, but 99% of all elves prefer to Reverie. Just as refreshing and you control the channel.

So does Vaelmith, especially after the dream he had during his recent time falling asleep.

LollipopSpider wrote:

SoaS, I've heard that the Reverie is somewhat communal in a more immediate sense also, being something similar to an empathetic/sympathetic bond while being done at the same time as other elves in the area. I can't remember where I originally heard this, so I'm curious if it has a source.

You are probably thinking of the Elven Bonding.

That's when two spirits bond as one, usually a process of marriage and love. All Elves are interconnected however, to a lesser degree, since they share the same link to the Weave, to Nature, to Arvandor, much like blood vessels in a body are linked together.

That is why, if an Elf raises a weapon against another Elf, it is the ultimate insult. It is kind of like raising a knife to chop off your own arm. Elves rarely will threaten each other with physical violence. Why it happens on Amia so much, is beyond me. A lack of knowledge on Elven lore I guess...

In stories I've seen where an Elf does this, they are usually ex-communicated. It is the equivalent to an Elf, of a fate worse than Death, because of these very close spiritual bonds.

Can you list some book sources that I could check out? (Ahem, non-novel sources, at that?)

LollipopSpider wrote:

Can you list some book sources that I could check out? (Ahem, non-novel sources, at that?)

There's so many places I'm pulling that from but to list just a few areas:

To start with, the four hour Reverie thing is from Races of Faerun P. 26.

On Ageing and Death, Races of the Wild, p. 14 to 15.

On Origins of Elves, Races of the Wild, p. 25 to 26.

And the 2nd Edltion of the same quoted "Blood of Corellon" legend is here:

http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/elveng ... enGods.htm

On Elven Bonding, 2nd Edition Players Handbook on Elves holds a lot of that information and I remember seeing it replicated someplace in 3rd Edition too, but can't remember where.

Hope that helps?

I'd avoid looking into Races of the Wild, to be honest. It's a core product, and it's very unlikely to provide any useful information that isn't already featured in Realmslore, somewhere.

Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, has a good deal about Reverie. It's also the best elven sourcebook out there, and since WotC offers it for free there's no reason not to have read it.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

The book theorizes (this is IC theory, not OOC fact; we don't know anything for sure):

Quote:

“Reverie” is a process similar to sleep, but distinctly elven.
Where most races must shut their eyes and drift off to sleep
to gain rest (both mental and physical), the elves activate
their peculiar mental energy shields, and this activates their
reverie. Like sleep, their mind and their physical body are
partially independent, and all mental activity is internalized.
Unlike sleep, an elf lies with eyes fully open, leading most
humans to believe that elves never rest. While in reverie,
elves mentally replay past events of that elf’s long life, since
an elf might forget much of his past over the centuries without
moments of reflection such as this.

Reverie also serves an important purpose in elven childrearing.
When an elven woman is with child, she enters a
state close to reverie when her belly begins to swell with
child; from that time until her child is born, she mentally
teaches her child of herself, the child’s father, her clan and
colony history, and the basics of many languages. I firmly believe
that this is why the elves grow so quickly and are such
smart, well-behaved children. Having been born with knowledge
of their family and its past givesthem a stronger sense
of self, lacked by most races.

According to some more religious elves, the Seldarine
promise the elves a reverie-like communal mind-link with the
gods after “the passage west,” and there are few elves who
can resist this idea. Those who remain longer tend to be High
Mages and other powerful elves whose very power substitutes
for the Call. This may be true, but I am not a man who
allows the gods much room in my opinions. Still, those without
some energy from communing minds with other elves atrophy
swiftly and die. Therefore, if my theory about this
mental energy gland in elven brains is correct, the gland must
be exercised at frequent intervals after an elf reaches a certain
stage of maturity or death results.

There may be Half-Elves who can reverie. Arilyn Moonblade, however, cannot. She was raised in an elven community, was of royal blood, and still she had to conceal her human half by hiding the fact she needed sleep. (In Silver Shadows.)

As for the soul/spirit difference, I've found no reference to it in Realmslore. I searched Cormanthyr andElves of Evermeet, and there was plenty of talk about souls but nothing about elves not having them. I believe it's IC myth. Complete Book of Elves doesn't say anything about it either, even if it's not FR.

EDIT: Oh, there is that one line in Demihuman Deities. Note that the paragraph discusses elven theology and beliefs, and what the Seldarine are "held to be." Its intention doesn't seem to be to convey ontological facts that would have direct effect on the physical, biological world. Other sources describe elven afterlife as quite identical to that of other races, in the way it works.

Thank you, Iron. Most helpful!

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

Because of Divine Grace or Dark Blessing, said classes could have a low dex score(let's say 8 ), but still a relatively high Reflex save. How does that translate ICly, if at all. I was under the impression that high reflex in such a way but low dex would mean a character could still roll, jump, or flip out of the way of something, but only as a reflex, not like on command or actually trying to. Is that about right?

Divine Intervention on a minute scale is my personal preference but really anything works. "Divine Insight" regarding reflexes is perfectly doable. He is simply compelled to do whatever. Pehraps an Ilmateri doesn't actually dodge, but simply takes the spell and Divine Grace shrugs off the damage. Perhaps a Banite shoves his fist into the fireball and the Dark Power of Bane shunts the blast away from him. There's a lot of flavor you can do with these things, I encourage you to use it!

Just an afterthought along this line, would "these things" include Divine Shield as well? I know the engine impliments the AC from it as dodge, but given your answer on Divine Grace, perhaps PC's have some leeway in how this manifests too?

I don't see why not, and for Divine Might as well, at least visually.

Iron... I'm looking for some Lore on Elven High Magic. I don't have any sourcebooks for this, and would like to look into it and notions of the Seldarine.

High Magic is almost divine isn't it? As it's granted by the Seldarine (or at least directly influenced by it), or the weave (Which is under Mystra's control)?

This is for RP purposes, as I've been (icly) researching this for a while, but still haven't found OOCly what I'm looking for.

IronAngel wrote:

I'd avoid looking into Races of the Wild, to be honest. It's a core product, and it's very unlikely to provide any useful information that isn't already featured in Realmslore, somewhere.

There's also some good information on it in Elves of Evermeet if I recall? As for Races of the Wild, its actually got some very good information on Elven culture and mindset in general, more so than any other book that I've found.

I'm not wary of it at all, I think its actually not too badly written. It covers new ground the other sources don't cover. Especially the bit about grooming, mindset, individualistic freedom, daily life, legends, etc... Admittedly, its very broad and general but its a good source of how elves in general do things.

It misses a lot of the other stuff, but I think the intention was to simply "fill in the gaps". From that point of view, it does that.

Quote:

Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, has a good deal about Reverie. It's also the best elven sourcebook out there, and since WotC offers it for free there's no reason not to have read it.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/downloads

This book got most of the High Magic stuff really, though Elves of Evermeet have a bit as well. It is dangerous and highly potent kind of magic.

Sound: I don't doubt that it has good stuff, but my stance in general is rather wary and strict: if it doesn't say FR on the cover, it's not applicable. It might be true, but we don't know for certain until Ed or FR authors chime in on the subject, and until such a time the contents of a core book are just as valuable as your own interpretations.

High Magic: Yep, look in the above book first, and then ask if there's something more. Umm.. I guess you should also know, that the Towers of Sun and Moon were recently destroyed on Evermeet, several high mages slain, and High Magic can no longer be safely or easily cast outside of Evermeet.

How recently? As in 3.0-3.5? I find High Magic interesting (even more so when they get ambitious and it goes horribly wrong).

I refer to the Grand History of Amian Realms, 1371 DR:

Quote:

Evermeet is attacked by gold elf traitors lead by Kymil Nimesin, accompanied by drow, Nelanther pirates and the Elf-Eater. The Towers of Sun and Moon are destroyed, High Magic is considerably weakened on Toril. Prince Lamruil Moonflower travels far north to establish a hidden elven city, Auseriel. Tree of Souls is supposed to be planted there when the time is right, making it a safe haven for elves.

This happened in the novel Evermeet: Island of Elves.

High Mages are fairly limited in number, and learning it typically (read: practically always) requires you to join a circle, which means the approval of other High Mages. Don't ask why it's a PrC in Races of Faerûn - it makes no sense, especially since the book itself emphasizes how unusual it is to become one.

ON Amia, doing anything with High Magic would require explicit DM approval. Just FYI, if Iron's post didn't clarify that.

IronAngel wrote:

I refer to the Grand History of Amian Realms, 1371 DR:

Quote:

Evermeet is attacked by gold elf traitors lead by Kymil Nimesin, accompanied by drow, Nelanther pirates and the Elf-Eater. The Towers of Sun and Moon are destroyed, High Magic is considerably weakened on Toril. Prince Lamruil Moonflower travels far north to establish a hidden elven city, Auseriel. Tree of Souls is supposed to be planted there when the time is right, making it a safe haven for elves.

This happened in the novel Evermeet: Island of Elves.

High Mages are fairly limited in number, and learning it typically (read: practically always) requires you to join a circle, which means the approval of other High Mages. Don't ask why it's a PrC in Races of Faerûn - it makes no sense, especially since the book itself emphasizes how unusual it is to become one.

I remember reading that it takes several centuries of study before they approve you. For instance, it took one mage 300 years and they felt he didn't have enough experience, reading one novel on the matter...

Can anyone tell me exactly why the gods of certain pantheons, namely the elven, dwarven, and gnomish, have two names, as in a first and a last?

I know that for some of them, like a dwarven or two I think, actually ascended to their status and thus just kept their mortal names, but as for the elven deities, like Corellon who've been there almost forever it seems, how'd they get them? Or are they just titles?

With gnomes I think its just a cultural thing. They're not ascended mortals. Its more of a nickname. Garl glitters like gold, Baervan wanders the wild, Segojan calls the earth, Callarduran has smooth hands, and so on. Gnomes, being long lived, are more than willing to take the time to say long winded names.

Pass on elves and dwarves.

"They just do". Cultural thing is probably it.

I used google for some research on half-celestial beings, their history, RP tips etc. but the sources and texts are very limited.

Does anyone around here knows where should I look for details or has some knowledge about them? I would love to try to request and RP such creature but I still cannot find enough resources and I don't want to missRP it.

Thank you

Half-celestial? What exactly are you looking for? It really depends on the creature I belive.

Exactly Im looking for more informations about Ghaele lineage.
There is very little about it on AmiaWiki.

but I would appreciate all information sites or text you could give me becouse I would like to know more about it generally.

Are the Shadow Thieves of Amn applicable in the Amian setting? If so can someone point me in the direction of some info?

They live in Amn, mostly, but yes. They exist. Not sure which book to check, I can tell you later if you don't find anything. Lands of Intrigue is about Amn, I think it's a free download.

Baldur's Gate I&II?:)

Seriously though;

Lords of Darkness page 171-175
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 153, 155

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