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Yes, that's true. But they're also a factor in creating the right kind of atmosphere for roleplaying. I somehow doubt many people would get into the right mood for RP with BIGCHOPPADUDE91, The Destroyer of Worlds and Adolf Hitler standing in Cordor.

Me, I take names from novels, games etc and mix them togheter. There is no secret that my main, the human Ranger, is inspired by the NPC from Baldurs Gate II with the same name, as well as two characters from the Fire and Ice novels. Others have names taken from more obscure historical persons, from Moorish generals to my grandfather.

And I do not feel guilty in teh least for mixing semi-known names togehter into a new one. I just cant be arsed to spend many hours creating names for a character.

So why not get rid the party chat option then?, that is far more of an immersion disruption than somebodys name tag such as Weave Knight or whatever other tag you feel is neccessary to ram in our faces, right?

QPR wrote:

Me, I take names from novels, games etc and mix them togheter. There is no secret that my main, the human Ranger, is inspired by the NPC from Baldurs Gate II with the same name, as well as two characters from the Fire and Ice novels. Others have names taken from more obscure historical persons, from Moorish generals to my grandfather.

And I do not feel guilty in teh least for mixing semi-known names togehter into a new one. I just cant be arsed to spend many hours creating names for a character.

Oh yes, nothing wrong with mixing names of course. It is not the same thing.

O'Raghailligh wrote:

So why not get rid the party chat option then?, that is far more of an immersion disruption than somebodys name tag such as Weave Knight or whatever other tag you feel is neccessary to ram in our faces, right?

Those aren't the nametags that we're talking about. What we're talking about is seeing Adolf Hitler giving lollies to Judas Iscariot with Julius Caesar reciting love poems in Cordor.

Silvarus wrote:

Oh yes, nothing wrong with mixing names of course. It is not the same thing.

There's nothing wrong with this. Chances are all names that you can reasonably think of have been used by someone at some point. Mixing names together allows more variations, and you are obeying the 'spirit' of the rules.

One of my name-creation techniques is to copy how an existing name is spoken, but use slightly different syllables. That way you don't end up with a name that would be difficult to say, but you still have something that is different and new.

I'm usually pretty OCD when it comes to my characters' names being original. Most of the time my characters' names are either amalgamations of other names I've heard and liked or just pulled out of my head, and then reworked phonetically until it looks like it could actually be a name. After than, I usually google the name or otherwise search it, you know, just because I don't want to have the mistaken appearance of taking from someone else's idea... or any pornstar names, yanno. o_O

That said, the execptions to this little naming protocol of mine are fairly common, albeit slightly archaic/fantasy names, like Rhea, or like Ardok, which if you are familiar with the series he is inspired by, it's not at all hard to figure out how I got the name.

It's the names taken out of context that bother me....stolen dwarf names are one thing, but a Jack Sparrow or a Sub-Zero on a NWN server ticks me off.

I don't see why the hyperbole is necessary. BIGCHOPPADUDE91 is pretty different from "Gorath" from some fantasy series. Where's the line exactly drawn on that one? If I made a character named Brandoch Daha would any of you even know you should be complaining about it? It's all so arbitrary when it comes to "ripping off" names. As for the "not taking seriously" bit I have to wonder how the people saying this react to RL persons with names like Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed. Do you not take them seriously either? :roll:

BloodNAshes wrote:

As for the "not taking seriously" bit I have to wonder how the people saying this react to RL persons with names like Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed. Do you not take them seriously either? :roll:

Funnily enough, my real life suspension of disbelief is not broken by those names because they are 'characters in the setting'. In FR, however, they are not characters. Just like I'd be suspicious of some random in real life telling me their name is Elminster or Ul'ryat'uil'op.

You have to shitting me. Out of all the things in DnD and Faerun that stretch disbelief, a famous RL name for a character is one of them? I don't even think that would place in the top 50 of my list of things that suspend my immersion. There is no way your character would know it's a famous RL name anyway, this just strikes me as phony posturing on the part of a lot who look for something easy to get all RP elitist or "hardcore" about such as something as inconsequential like a name. If people want to be petty and alienate new players, when the numbers are dropping no less, by picking on Goraths and Richard Rahls go right ahead though.

Well, I'm sorry that you don't like the rules, but they are the rules. An Adolf Hitler breaks suspension of disbelief, a Bill Gates risks defamation and a Captain Jean-Luc Picard risks breach of copyright.

The line is drawn arbitrarily at "if someone complains" or if it is blatantly obvious. You don't have to agree with the rules, but you have to obey them. You can try to get them changed, of course, but I must say that I am personally happy with what we have as maximally efficient to maintaining suspension of disbelief with minimal effort and inconvenience for others.

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Well, I'm sorry that you don't like the rules, but they are the rules. An Adolf Hitler breaks suspension of disbelief, a Bill Gates risks defamation and a Captain Jean-Luc Picard risks breach of copyright.

. . .

Do you really think Bill Gates or whoever owns Star Trek is going to sue some obscure NWN server because a character has their name? Futhermore, even if they tried, they'd fail because such things are protected anyway. How do you think South Park is still on the air if "defamation" was a big deal?

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The line is drawn arbitrarily at "if someone complains"

Thanks for summing up the problem with Amia so eloquently. Also, let's try to keep the condescending lectures about obeying the rules to a minimum there champ. Every single time someone does object to an inane rule, which is the entire point of a discussion forum, someone feels the need to play cop by popping in with a line like this.

To help you understand why I'm even bothering to argue this, imagine I make a "test" or a "starter" character to see if I want to stick around on Amia. I think of some name from a fantasy novel I've read and pop into the server to get a feel for it and see if I enjoy it or not. About 15 minutes in or so though, I get pulled into an OOC waiting room and told I have to change my name or I can't play this guy. What kind of impression do you think that's going to leave exactly? I personally have seen this happen before, but again, if you aren't willing to stretch your disbelief for your fellow players and instead want to play internet authority figure by enforcing some ill-defined rule then be my guest.

BloodNAshes wrote:

Do you really think Bill Gates or whoever owns Star Trek is going to sue some obscure NWN server because a character has their name? Futhermore, even if they tried, they'd fail because such things are protected anyway. How do you think South Park is still on the air if "defamation" was a big deal?

No, I don't, but I believe people can complain as it breaches the little thing you ticked "I agree" to when you signed up. Even if they don't, why bait them? And South Park is allowed because it's a parody. And if you're making a parody of a famous character / person, you're obviously not even trying to make it easy for others to suspend disbelief.
And as I said earlier, the suspension of disbelief is far more important.

BloodNAshes wrote:

Also, let's try to keep the condescending lectures about obeying the rules to a minimum there champ.

Your hyperbole and sarcastic ellipses, not to mention the condescending title you just used?

BloodNAshes wrote:

To help you understand why I'm even bothering to argue this, imagine I make a "test" or a "starter" character to see if I want to stick around on Amia. I think of some name from a fantasy novel I've read and pop into the server to get a feel for it and see if I enjoy it or not. About 15 minutes in or so though, I get pulled into an OOC waiting room and told I have to change my name or I can't play this guy. What kind of impression do you think that's going to leave exactly?

So you think the DMs are heavy handed and downright rude to just say "You have to change your name now or you can't play" and not something more along the lines of "I'm sorry, but your character name breaches server rules, and somebody has complained, would you mind changing it? All you have to do is click on the orb and type a new name. If you have any questions, ask"?

I still feel bad about having to change Illyana Rasputin to Illyana new-last-name. I was sure I was one of only a handful to know the name and realize it is more than just a name when given to a short, svelte blonde-haired sorceress, but still. I liked the reference.

I know why you feel bad!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yossarian

Now see I would have referenced the Seagull.

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No, I don't, but I believe people can complain as it breaches the little thing you ticked "I agree" to when you signed up. Even if they don't, why bait them?

They *ought not to* complain, because
1) it's hurting someone else's enjoyment over a thing which shouldn't affect your own in any significant or meaninful way
2) it turns the server into a place where he who whineth the most and the loudest determines policy
3) it alienates new players before they've had a change to acclimate themselves to the server or become better RPers.

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And South Park is allowed because it's a parody.

Yeah, thanks, I know the parody law, the point is nothing is ever going to draw attention to Amia when there's more famous and influential things to waste your time trying to go to court over.

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And if you're making a parody of a famous character / person, you're obviously not even trying to make it easy for others to suspend disbelief.

If you make a caster you're obviously not even trying to make it easy for others to suspend disbelief, because the DnD rules around magic and how it affects the world are so poorly thought out that only a power-hungry jerk would make a caster in order to break the game. Or you know, maybe that's just what they like to play.

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And as I said earlier, the suspension of disbelief is far more important.

And I repeat my argument that that names are the most irrelevant and weakest element stretching disbelief on Amia. Not ever dying is a pretty big one *way* ahead of names, but we don't make people die because it affects their enjoyment, even it makes it harder to find the world immersive. If you really want to complain about lack of "real" RP and immersion we ought to be going there, not after names, which is a giant cop out.

BloodNAshes wrote:

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And if you're making a parody of a famous character / person, you're obviously not even trying to make it easy for others to suspend disbelief.

If you make a caster you're obviously not even trying to make it easy for others to suspend disbelief, because the DnD rules around magic and how it affects the world are so poorly thought out that only a power-hungry jerk would make a caster in order to break the game. Or you know, maybe that's just what they like to play.

Would this be because magic isn't part of this fantasy world? Oh wait ...

BloodNAshes wrote:

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And as I said earlier, the suspension of disbelief is far more important.

And I repeat my argument that that names are the most irrelevant and weakest element stretching disbelief on Amia. Not ever dying is a pretty big one *way* ahead of names, but we don't make people die because it affects their enjoyment, even it makes it harder to find the world immersive. If you really want to complain about lack of "real" RP and immersion we ought to be going there, not after names, which is a giant cop out.

And because it is the least, we should be more lax on it, until we have a new least, and then relax on that one too?

We may as well just agree to disagree, because I'm clearly not convincing you, nor you me.

Indeed, because why you would ever look at a roleplay server in such a legalistic manners is clearly beyond me but my point is, and pretty much always has been on these types of issues, is that Amia needs to "man up" and decide exactly what it wants to be.

If Amia wants to go with things like not restricting classes, no kind of permanent death, flimsly ICly justified random mob whacking, goodly drow and lesbian tieflings running everywhere, etc. then just bite the bullet and say "we're RP lite". Don't harass people about little things like names, let them do "ooc" things like post on the forums asking for sacrifices, be fine with cybering and social/giggle/huggle business, etc. If most of your players are action and/or social types then don't piss them off by making pointless measures to make the place *look* more RP-centered or by ranting about names and dirty powerbuilders and stupid romance players on the forums.

If you *do* want to be "full RP" or hardcore RP or whatever, then there's a long list of tough changes that'd have to be made in order to really be able to call yourselves that, and posturing on the forums and niggling about little things aren't on it and just make everyone angry at and suspicious of everyone else. Seeing that the numbers are dropping this a good time to decide this identity crisis and figure out if you're cool with lower numbers but more strict and hardcore RP or just be "lax" about everything so there's more people around. I hope my points are clear because there's nothing else to say on topic from me about this at this point.

How is asking that people have reasonable names wanting the server to be hardcore? I don't want hardcore, otherwise I wouldn't be on Amia. It's a game first for the fun of everyone. And if one person is ruining the immersion for many, changing the name isn't much to ask.

I just think premade names are uncreative, personally.

Mishy moo wrote:

I once made a random character with a random name (or so I thought), that turned out to be some porn stars name. I had absolutely NO IDEA that it was, I even had to google it after been told by a DM, cause a couple players complained. Love to find out who seen who ever the ramdom chick was in action. Funny as. :lol:

I remeber that too

BnA, you're complaining about an 8+ year old rule. You're 5 years too late to complain about t on Amia and 2 years too late to complain about it before Amia existed. It is accepted as fact on 95% of roleplaying servers that you should not ake carbon copies of famous characters or people in real life. Not because "We could get sued", but because ultimately, it breaks immersion on an OOC level. Your character may not understand that the glasses wearing bookworm named Bill Gates who insists on being a windowwasher means anything, but YOU will know. It is harming your immersion into the setting. And it speaks badly upon the DM team and upon the server as a whole, to allow these to come in and affect a player's suspension of disbelief and immersion into a fantasy game setting.

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If Amia wants to go with things like not restricting classes, no kind of permanent death, flimsly ICly justified random mob whacking, goodly drow and lesbian tieflings running everywhere, etc. then just bite the bullet and say "we're RP lite

No. That's about all I have to say on the subject. Not having 50 billion arbitrary restrictions regarding classes and what alignments your character can be doesn't make us "RP lite". Just because we allow homosexual characters doesn't make us "RP lite". (it actually makes us 'more hardcore' for FR RP [as does having good Drow] because Ed Greenwood himself said it's quite prevalent but that's a tangent for another day). I don't know who the hell came up with this RP lite crap, my memory is faded, but I want to kick them in the damn face over the internet.

Sorry. The name rule stays.

Yossarin wrote:

I still feel bad about having to change Illyana Rasputin to Illyana new-last-name. I was sure I was one of only a handful to know the name and realize it is more than just a name when given to a short, svelte blonde-haired sorceress, but still. I liked the reference.

Rawr

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BnA, you're complaining about an 8+ year old rule. You're 5 years too late to complain about t on Amia and 2 years too late to complain about it before Amia existed

I wasn't going to comment futher, but frankly, this is absurd. I complained about the requirement for asking for OOC permission to PvP when I got here, which was apparently a common practice on NWN servers, such as Arelith, and (whether or not it had anything to do with me) it *was* changed. If getting to the game late is somehow pertinent to commenting on the rules, you might as well forbid rules discussion by players on the forum.

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No. That's about all I have to say on the subject. Not having 50 billion arbitrary restrictions regarding classes and what alignments your character can be doesn't make us "RP lite". Just because we allow homosexual characters doesn't make us "RP lite". (it actually makes us 'more hardcore' for FR RP [as does having good Drow] because Ed Greenwood himself said it's quite prevalent but that's a tangent for another day).

More hyperbole. 50 billion arbitrary restrictions on classes is pretty different from 1-3 paladins everywhere, 1-3 rogues everywhere, and 1-3 monks everywhere, 2 of which are explicitly forbidden from multiclassing in the books and the other of which is taken without any RP justification whatsoever to exploit two stupid (non-book) rules regarding Tumble and UMD.

Also, allowing homosexual characters is not the issue, but the prevalence of people who want to play lesbian tieflings for the "sexy cool" factor is more a comment about what your playerbase actually *is* rather than what you want it to be, and you (plural, general you) can either 1) change the nature of the server to change the composition of the playerbase or 2) accept that the playerbase is such and not alienate them with silly rules and forum rants.

I'm not even arguing over the rule per se, but the pettiness which would lead someone to complain about something like that, when there's far more important things they should be commenting on than getting pissy over a name.

I don't believe complaining about "Bill Gates" "Drizzt" "Hitler" "~TuRbOKIllEr" etc to be petty. It affects immersion in a roleplaying world and that is the service we are offering to you, so it is in our purview, in our responsibility to keep it as immersive as possible

If we're into gross hyperbole, then you need to stop complaining about the so-called "Cordor Crew", which, fyi, does not exist anymore and hasn't for some time, but people continue the stigma anyways. There is no prevlence of people playing good aligned lesiban tieflings. And if there are, who cares. That's being petty, telling someone they can't play a PC type by all rights allowable within our rules and the FR guidelines for the simple reason you personally believe it to be 'wrong'.

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1) change the nature of the server to change the composition of the playerbase or 2) accept that the playerbase is such and not alienate them with silly rules and forum rants.

1: No. No changes needed.
2: No. No changes needed.

Many of the "problems" I see are entirely perceptive. IN this case: NAmes. This one is solved easily by the rules. The rule is not changing. Nor is the ability of anyone to play an evil aasimar, or what have you.

For me it depends. If they are obviously trying to rp as "Sephiroth" or "Jack Sparrow" then it's breaking immersion.

If they had a name like ... Gormoth, I would check to see if the way they present thier character is a rip off of an exsisting character of the same name. If they are then out. If they aren't, well it's a cool sounding fantasy name.

The human brain is a funny thing. No matter how hard you try and make it not associate a given name with a given face, it will.

By giving a character their own name, rather than someone's else's, you give people something new to associate with the things that characters is, does, and can be.

Selmak wrote:

The human brain is a funny thing. No matter how hard you try and make it not associate a given name with a given face, it will.

The one thing the brain is really good at is spotting patterns, especially where none exist.

Numbers, sometimes, you're my (censored) hero.

Nothing breaks the monotony of whining like hawt chick in barbarian bikini.

WELL DONE SAH!

And BnA:

It's a name rule. If you want to make a Harry Potter char, go to a Harry Potter server. (Make that FullMetal Alchemist or buffy or Angel or Twiligh or whatever) If the rest of Amia outweighs the fact that you can't have an Elric/Elrond/Jack Black/whatever, maybe you should pay attention to the good instead of focusing on the bad (Ah, the irony). If your issue is what you perceive as a shitty DM attitude, address THAT where it belongs. Not hiding behind another topic here.

Also, have a cookie, and RP. It's too much fun to waste it trying to out-jerk Tormak.

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I don't believe complaining about "Bill Gates" "Drizzt" "Hitler" "~TuRbOKIllEr" etc to be petty. It affects immersion in a roleplaying world and that is the service we are offering to you, so it is in our purview, in our responsibility to keep it as immersive as possible

Oy vey. How many times do I have to make the distinction between complaining about a name from some fantasy work like "Gorath" or "Hugh the Hand", used in the OP, from some book, and something like "~TurboKIllEr" or "BIGCHOPPADUDE"? The early posts were not about the latter, but rather the former and I can only assume people insist on making it look like I'm trying to say I'm okay with the latter because they can't own to the fact that getting in a huff about the former is petty.

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If we're into gross hyperbole, then you need to stop complaining about the so-called "Cordor Crew", which, fyi, does not exist anymore and hasn't for some time, but people continue the stigma anyways. There is no prevlence of people playing good aligned lesiban tieflings. And if there are, who cares. That's being petty, telling someone they can't play a PC type by all rights allowable within our rules and the FR guidelines for the simple reason you personally believe it to be 'wrong'.

I'm *not* complaining about the "Cordor Crew". What I am complaining about, is how damn sick and tired I am of seeing all this high and mighty bullshit on the forums when the truth is, whether people here want to own up to it or not, is that the place *is* "RP lite" and it ought to accept that and run with it or actually do something about making it otherwise. As it is now, the focus for the vast majority of the server is around action and social cliques and any time there's an event attempted to be done, whether DM or player run, there's always constant amounts of fighting and whining because there's never any consensus as to what the place is really supposed to be besides "open" and "tolerant"; which means everyone is "free" to RP how they like, except that they aren't really, because everyone is constantly complaining about how other people do and anything involving conflict or changes to the world is more trouble than its worth.

Amia targets one audience with its structure (casual action types) but claims to be for another at the same time. The name thing is merely a microcosm of this. If you want to play on a server where you're free to easily random-monster-whack your way to a level 30 powerbuild who can never really die, and thus keep the world static and nearly incomprehensible, don't make some pointless post taking jabs at other people not being "serious" enough RPers, especially over something as dumb as a name you recognize from a nerd book (or the sacrifice thread for another example right now, where asking for a victim in the thread gets snarky, haughty responses). Figure out how to do some events without constantly bitching at each other and then maybe the whining about "uncreative" n00bs would be justified.

Just because you say it's 'RP lite' doesn't mean it's 'RP lite'.

I swear, I'm going to add that to the forum censor or something.

TormakSaber wrote:

I don't believe complaining about "Bill Gates" "Drizzt" "Hitler" "~TuRbOKIllEr" etc to be petty. It affects immersion in a roleplaying world and that is the service we are offering to you, so it is in our purview, in our responsibility to keep it as immersive as possible

yeah if you guys let people run around with names like that, might as well let leetspeak be a valid language IC.

BloodNAshes wrote:

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I don't believe complaining about "Bill Gates" "Drizzt" "Hitler" "~TuRbOKIllEr" etc to be petty. It affects immersion in a roleplaying world and that is the service we are offering to you, so it is in our purview, in our responsibility to keep it as immersive as possible

Oy vey. How many times do I have to make the distinction between complaining about a name from some fantasy work like "Gorath" or "Hugh the Hand", used in the OP, from some book, and something like "~TurboKIllEr" or "BIGCHOPPADUDE"? The early posts were not about the latter, but rather the former and I can only assume people insist on making it look like I'm trying to say I'm okay with the latter because they can't own to the fact that getting in a huff about the former is petty.

Which is why we have it for if someone complains. Three or four years ago, if I saw someone named "Silver Surfer", I wouldn't have complained (not that I was playing the server, mind) ...why? To me it would have been an obscure name I think I'd have heard mentioned but certainly not recognise. To everyone else, though? I'm pretty sure that would take a blow to immersion.
So the DMs don't draw the arbitrary line, it's the players who do lose immersion, just as if I were typing "We really need cars around here, it will make going to Winya faster" ICly into party chat. Sure, my character has no idea with what you're talking about, but we you certainly just crashed the player's immersion.

I think you'll find that people don't tend to borrow an obscure name from a nerd book though. And if they do, well frankly they could go for months or years without their character's name being recognised.

I agree that Amia needs to focus more on roleplaying from the ground up, rather than just being a compound of the most convenient and popular elements. Then you could say that having a name policy is really important.

There are a few things which are more threatening to immersion than the name floating over someone's head. Such as the overriding imperative to hunt hunt hunt until your fingers fall off. I could understand if there was some intense RP to accompany it, but there usually isn't any.

I suppose this would be a good time now for someone (or a few someones) to mention that they have no trouble forming groups which have great RP.

Okay. Well the rest of us end up with some joe who likes to level every day, because there really isn't a lot of choice (unless you're okay with wandering around the module on your own, or hanging out and doing nothing).

And we would really like to go on one of these mythical "adventures" that we keep hearing about, because we're not sure they actually exist anymore. And that's really killing our immersion. What's the point in being an adventurer if there's no adventure to be had?

Okay. Rant over. You can start in with your artillery now.

TormakSaber wrote:

BnA, you're complaining about an 8+ year old rule. You're 5 years too late to complain about t on Amia and 2 years too late to complain about it before Amia existed. It is accepted as fact on 95% of roleplaying servers that you should not ake carbon copies of famous characters or people in real life.

Nope, in beginning of amia the rule was not existing. Only since 2007 or so, and initially the characters were grandfather claused (although maybe that changed, which I would understand)

Anyway I follow Selvec and Dako on this one. If the name seems right for the setting, then who cares. Even if the character is a slight/complete rip-off from another place. Like the "gorath" discussed in the first posts.

It's not like DnD isn't a complete ripoff in itsself. :roll:

TormakSaber wrote:

Just because you say it's 'RP lite' doesn't mean it's 'RP lite'.

I swear, I'm going to add that to the forum censor or something.

Do it.

*coughs into his hand* He won't do it! *prod prod*

It makes about as much sense as 'Diet RP - the taste for a new generation' :wink:

TormakSaber wrote:

I don't know who the hell came up with this RP lite crap, my memory is faded, but I want to kick them in the damn face over the internet.

I always enjoy observing a nice facekicking so:

September 11th 2005: Cori uses it to describe another server
February 25th 2006: Ravenna says "amia is not RP lite"
February 4th 2007: Funicullus calls the server RP lite (but Jen doesn't like it, Cori describes us RP lite later but expresses the hope that we are RPing with higher standard)
March 22nd 2007: Wonwon: "but we're still an RP Lite server"

Seems you'll have to kick Funi in the head

I'll kick 'em all for good measure.

Anyway, is this a fun thread or what?

Yeah totally. Know what'd make it even more fun, Disco? If we took a pair of laptops, went into one of those monstrosities the finns love... What are they again? Oh right, saunas. Yeah, went in there, and just followed the topic in the heat.

Ohh the fun.

I am afraid that my patience with saunas isn't any better than my patience with endless arguments...

Saunas are only good for one thing, and that's to crack my favorite Seinfeld joke: basically, while sitting in a sauna, you go: "It's like a sauna in here."

Comedy gold.

So anybody knows a good thiefling built for an axe melee that does not depend on armor and shield?

No, but I'd call him Beelzebuff.

Can I help with the kicking Tormak?

Another Jack Sparrow?

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