AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

question: Does rogue sneak attack and assassin death attack stack?

Resurgent23 wrote:

question: Does rogue sneak attack and assassin death attack stack?

Yes, but not for purposes of feat requirements, such as improved sneka attack.

Yurell wrote:

It would depend if you're female or male. Male favoured class is Wizard according to the subrace page, so your only penalty should be your ECL modifier. As a female, standard 20% for multiclassing (prestige classes don't count) and the ECL modifier.

Wow! Thanks yurell!, i might actually try to play an elf then. A DROW even. Will be my first

Muspelkvist wrote:

Ulir wrote:

The AA build I'm currently working on, is more sneak attack oriented. So far it does seem to work very well, if you want nice AB and AC, plus epic dodge. The fourteen levels or AA is for the feat and +7 arrows. Should get you to around 50-52 AB, which should do nicely.

Wizard 1/Rogue 15/Arcane Archer 14

Str: 12
Dex: 20 --> 28
Con: 10
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Skills:
Tumble (30)
UMD (30)
Craft Weapon (10)
Disable Trap (20)
Hide (33)
Move Silently (33)
Open Lock (10)
Set Trap (20)
Spellcraft (10)

1 R - Feat: Point Blank Shot, Sneak Attack: +1d6
2 R - Evasion
3 R - Feat: Rapid Shot, Uncanny Dodge 1, Sneak Attack: +2d6
4 R - Ability: Dex (21)
5 R - Sneak Attack: +3d6
6 R - Feat: Weapon Focus: L.Bow, Uncanny Dodge 2
7 R - Sneak Attack: +4d6
8 R - Ability: Dex (22)
9 W - Feat: Weapon Finesse - 10 spellcraft
10 AA - Enchant Arrow +1
11 AA - Imbue Arrow (fireball 3/day)
12 AA - Feat: Improved Critical: L.Bow, Ability: Dex (23), Arrow +2
13 AA - Seeker Arrow 1
14 AA - Arrow +3
15 AA - Feat: Improved Critical: Short Sword, Seeker Arrow 2
16 AA - Ability: Dex (24), Arrow +4
17 AA - Hail of Arrows
18 AA - Feat: Blind Fight, Arrow +5
19 AA - Arrow of Death
20 R - Ability: Dex (25), Sneak Attack: +5d6
21 R - Feat: Armor Skin, Special Bonus Feat: Improved Evasion
22 R - Sneak Attack: +6d6, Uncanny Dodge 3
23 AA - Arrow +6
24 R - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus: L.bow, Ability: Dex (26)
25 R - Sneak Attack: +7d6, Special Bonus Feat: Defensive Roll
26 AA - Imbue Arrow (11d6)
27 R - Feat: Epic Dodge, Uncanny Dodge IV
28 AA - Ability: Dex (27), Imbue Arrow (12d6),
29 AA - Feat: Great Dex 1 (28), Arrow +7
30 R - Feat: Improved Sneak Attack +1d6 (+9d6), Uncanny Dodge 4, Sneak Attack: +8d6

I was wondering, since this is my first build with rogue in it, if 20 points in disable trap will get me anywhere with epic traps?

P.S. Damn that smiley ( 28 )

Ive got a question regarding this build.

How crippled would it be if one would use "Drow" As subrace.

And how crippled would the XP be with 3 Classes, and only the Wizardclass is the favoured?

Xp-wise you got your answer, I seriously lack the will to calculate that sort of stuff and just "enjoy" the characters development.

Regarding the clippling thing with drow, I would say something for something. You will get a good spell resistance and whatnot and lose +1d6 imbue arrow damage (most wouldn't care for that), +1d6 sneak, feat/s and a few AB. The good thing about wizards is the pet.. haha, fun for rp and scouting, plus you get two (if you have 14 or higher int for skill points) level 1 spells. Two times True Strike perhaps?

One way to do it is 14 AA/1 Wiz/13 Rogue (Yes, 14 AA for the fine feat)

1 R - Feat: Point Blank Shot, Sneak Attack: +1d6
2 R - Evasion
3 R - Feat: Rapid Shot, Uncanny Dodge 1, Sneak Attack: +2d6
4 R - Ability: Dex (21)
5 R - Sneak Attack: +3d6
6 R - Feat: Weapon Focus: L.Bow, Uncanny Dodge 2
7 R - Sneak Attack: +4d6
8 R - Ability: Dex (22)
9 W - Feat: Weapon Finesse - 10 spellcraft
10 AA - Enchant Arrow +1
11 AA - Imbue Arrow (fireball 3/day)
12 AA - Feat: Improved Critical: L.Bow, Ability: Dex (23), Arrow +2
13 AA - Seeker Arrow 1
14 AA - Arrow +3
15 AA - Feat: Improved Critical: Short Sword, Seeker Arrow 2
16 AA - Ability: Dex (24), Arrow +4
17 AA - Hail of Arrows
18 AA - Feat: Blind Fight, Arrow +5
19 AA - Arrow of Death
20 R - Ability: Dex (25), Sneak Attack: +5d6
21 R - Feat: Armor Skin, Special Bonus Feat: Improved Evasion
22 R - Sneak Attack: +6d6, Uncanny Dodge 3
23 AA - Arrow +6
24 R - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus: L.bow, Ability: Dex (26)
25 AA - Imbue Arrow (11d6)
26 AA - Arrow +7
27 R - Feats: Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge, Uncanny Dodge IV, S.A. +7d6
28 AA - Feat: Great Dex 1 (27), Ability: Dex (28) Imbue Arrow (12d6)

I like the 28 dex (+15 modifier) because of the extra AB and AC (and reflex saves, hide, move silently and so on). You can get there by skipping the armor skin of course. The fourteen levels in AA gets you there easily and also increases the dc on death arrow and increases the imbue arrow damage. Still, +2 natural armor (about 50 AC with decent gear) helps quite alot.

Another way to go is 13 AA/2 Bard/13 Rogue.

Six points in perform for a slight damage boost twice a day, 30 points in spellcraft for the saves you hopefully wont make, because of your good spell resistance.
I would suggest the same progression in the beginning, taking bard instead of wiz and put a bard level in the end at 28, for the spellcraft skill points. You need at least 13 rogue levels (not uncontrollable levels, trying to bite your nails) to get epic dodge, which is amasing.

Its up to you, whether you want to become a dabbler in the arcane arts - The Wizard's Apprentice -, or play the banjo - Mr/Mrs. Cacophony of the Underdark - :wink:

P.S. Hope the level progression is right.

Going Bard instead of Wiz will net you a 20% XP penalty on top of your +2ECL. Plus since you have to take the bard prior to any AA levels you'll be saddled with that penalty for a looooong time while leveling. Personally, that would be a dealkiller for me.

Wizard nets you no xp penalty if you are a male drow and of course you can still put points into spellcraft on your wizard level(s).

maglorine wrote:

Going Bard instead of Wiz will net you a 20% XP penalty on top of your +2ECL. Plus since you have to take the bard prior to any AA levels you'll be saddled with that penalty for a looooong time while leveling. Personally, that would be a dealkiller for me.

Wizard nets you no xp penalty if you are a male drow and of course you can still put points into spellcraft on your wizard level(s).

20 percent on Amia is nothing.

Consider it like this.

Prior to Discos xp fix 20 percent hurt.

Now with Discos xp fix your getting better xp than what you got with no xp penalty during the old system.

Also 'Call' for this topic to be burned and a new one started? 75~ pages is about where the last one was killed.

XP Penalties are no big deal. Theres an infinite amount of XPs available, after all. Just takes a little longer. Personally I'd rather take my time getting to level 30 than ending up with something I didnt really want.

OK, but what else do you get from Bard that you don't already have from Wiz/Rogue? A weak bardsong twice per day?

You can say it's nothing but if someone told you all you had to do was X to get a 20% xp boost all day every day from Level 12 to 28. And you had to give up almost nothing or the two alternatives were roughly equal, would you?

Discipline.

The Second most single important skill after spot.

Edit:
On a drow it would be 9 AA 17 Rogue 2 Bard

Thanks ulris!

I will probably Copy that build to 90% and make a Drow.
But i came to think of something...

If you take away armour Skin and Epic Weapon Focus Longbow(+1AB), and instead take 2x Greater Dexterity you end up with +1AB, and 1 Less AC, but more Reflex?

So i will do that.

I also noticed if you take the Wizard class as a Divination specialist, you get (3!) Level 1 spellslots.
And if you dump Weapon Focus : Short sword, you can take "brew potion!"

Im out making this char! Thanks a zillion for the help, and Yea...

(let's make a new topic!, Starting...NOW!)

Requesting lock!

Wrong.

Epic Weapon Focus is +2 AB.

So two Great Dex will net you +1AB +1AC

Whilst EWF and Armorskin will net +2 AB +2AC

Note also a rogues reflex save is fairly decent.

Discipline is a valid point. Moreso for the rogue based AA that needs to be close to the targets to rack up sneaks so I withdraw my comment.

MoshingChris wrote:

Wrong.

Epic Weapon Focus is +2 AB.

So two Great Dex will net you +1AB +1AC

Whilst EWF and Armorskin will net +2 AB +2AC

Note also a rogues reflex save is fairly decent.

There must be something else i can take apart from Armor skin. I personally don't like the Feat.

You don't like +2 AC? :shock:

Dakotaen wrote:

You don't like +2 AC? :shock:

Nooh. I want to take Prowress instead. *Nodnod*

*Facepalm*

Since Im a n00b at rolling bards, Im wondering wether its worth going Bard/BG for divine might, divine shield and nice saves instead of Fighter for weapon specialization and feats. I have a concept that fits both, a Dirgesinger and a dualist.

Bard/BG looks the most appealing to me with its badly needed saves and damage output, which also gives me an extra epic bard feat as I can focus on Bard only post-epic, but i feel i will be thight on feats, and need to raise strenght more than planned to meet the request for cleave and power-attack.

Any advice?

Bard/Blackguard is one of the best class combinations there is, I think.

Theres always Bard20/Blackguard4/Fighter6?

The stock model Bard BG is 26Bard 1Fighter 3BG.
You don't take Div Shield since a Bards got so much Dodge AC its not worth it.

Thank you Mosh. Also, does taunt stack with curse song? And is taunt worth taking when you have curse song?

As human with 12 int my bard should get 6 skill points per evel, excluding fighter and BG levels, so Im thight on skill points I believe:

Perform
UMD
Tumble
Lore
Disciplin
Heal

Any suggested changes there?

Yes it does, drop heal and take taunt I guess, remove trap is pretty handy to I guess.

Don't take Lore either, Bards get a feat, Bardic Knowledge which equals to 1Lore/Bard lvl.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Yes it does, drop heal and take taunt I guess, remove trap is pretty handy to I guess.

Personally I'd drop lore instead of heal...
Or both and get some listen or spot (depending on 3rd multiclass and if you're pvp happy, friendly or not at all interested)

Didnt see lore in there...ewwwie... Go 14 intel! and go ranger instead of fighter! so much cooler! Free dual wield, can min your dex

Spellcraft is another good option... +6 saves to spells, not bad

All the above suggestions are wrong.

Max: Discipline, Listen, Spellcraft, Perform

Tumble: 30

Hide: 5

UMD: 10

Anyway when I made a Tuigan BG/Bard Devver for a friend it was

Pre-Epic Progression: 14 Bard 1 FIghter 3 BG 2 Bard

Pre-Epic feats = Power Attack, Cleave, Extend Spell, Maximised Spell, Curse Song, Great Cleave, WF, Imp Critical, Divine Might (if your making the 26str 16cha Dev Version)

10 Bard in epic

Epic Feats: EWF, Over, Dev, Armor Skin
Epic Focus: Winspiration, Epic Focus Perform

19str, 16cha, 7dex 10con 10int 8wis.

Didn't like the character much to glassy PvM although it was really good in pvp.

Hullo thar all. I'm back with another character concept that I'd like to have done properly.
I was thinking about making a rogue that could sneak around and still be able to hold her own in combat. Shadowdancing somewhere in there might be nice, too.
Overall: A beefy and sneaky rogue that either has high health or high AC, maybe both if it's possible. Decent fighting capabilities too, for those people that have such high spot/listen that it's just not funny. Human preferably.

Im making the bard dex based though, as I want a fencer type, quite inspired by Febre from The Musketeer.

I still dont know what race or subrace to pick, human is preferred, but I have problems managing it stat wise as durpari being the obvious choice. No matter how I turn the stats around, i get odd numbers when i have to fulfill the str req for power attack.

QPR

I'd suggest going to Bard Parry route then. Its like a Pseudo Epic Dodge although slightly better and worse. Switch Spellcraft or Listen for Parry.

Silent Whisper

Nothing can beat the Frank for beefy damage even when not throwing out sneaks. I'd suggest giving us the race you want to use before anything else because it impacts heavily (especially on dex based characters) exactly what you can do with a class.

Human would absolutely be preferred, though I can make the concept work with elves as well, though its harder, and i utterly despise how elves look in cloth.

The idea is the standard Bard 26/Fighter1/BG3, and dex doesent need to be super high, just enough to use cloth and have decent AB, Im guessing around 20 at end. Cha should be atleast 18, and i dont liek to ahve any stat below 10, even if wisdom is an obvious sacrifise.

MoshingChris wrote:

Silent Whisper

Nothing can beat the Frank for beefy damage even when not throwing out sneaks. I'd suggest giving us the race you want to use before anything else because it impacts heavily (especially on dex based characters) exactly what you can do with a class.

The Silent Whisper wrote:

Hullo thar all. I'm back with another character concept that I'd like to have done properly.
I was thinking about making a rogue that could sneak around and still be able to hold her own in combat. Shadowdancing somewhere in there might be nice, too.
Overall: A beefy and sneaky rogue that either has high health or high AC, maybe both if it's possible. Decent fighting capabilities too, for those people that have such high spot/listen that it's just not funny. Human preferably.

I rest my case.

Theirs 8 human subraces.

MoshingChris wrote:

There are 8 human subraces.

Fix'd because of the grammar nazi I am.

Subraces? I'm not so sure about what I should do about them. Either a Tuigan or Tiefling? Maybe just a human without a subrace? I think I might prefer the Tiefling, but with the ECL maybe not. Just a human without a subrace, please.

If you take a human subrace for the love of god RP it. I bet 90% of the wizards and sorcerors today don't even know what a Halruaan or Durpari are, especially considering all the evil Thayan Halruaans that should be Mulani, not Halruaan.

I'll give you a human subrace Tormak!

What, you mean a Tuigan should be a good horseman, fancy using shortbows, have an outlook on evil gods as something like curses, and generally look like genghis-khan?

Nonsense, they come from the land of +1 Strength and -1 Dexterity.

For beating spell resistance, is a natural one an auto-fail and a natural twenty an auto-succeed (and yes I did check the bloody NWN wiki)?

Yes I beleive so!

Speaking of the NwN wiki..
With shadow conjuration, shades and all that jazz.. if an illusionist with greater spell focus: illusion were to cast both a fireball spell and a shadow conjuration fireball spell, which one would be stronger? Does the spell focus make it stronger?
I've been wondering about that ever since I read the part that says nothing is changed on the NwN wiki, and I want advice! >:[

Spell focus doesn't actually make spells more powerful, just increases the saving throw: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_focus

As for Shades, all the spells cast from it are identical to the normal spell, except with a different spell level: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shades

Thanke!

Yurell wrote:

Spell focus doesn't actually make spells more powerful, just increases the saving throw: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_focus

As for Shades, all the spells cast from it are identical to the normal spell, except with a different spell level: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shades

Except for Shadow Conjuration: Mage Armor.

It stacks with normal Mage Armor if cast prior to Mage Armor.

Its supposed to given they are actually two different spells, however you will get heavily spanked for exploiting it.

Oh and i'm fairly certain that the d20 critical failure/success doesn't come into play with the checks to beat SR or to Dispel.

Hence the reason those 32 SR loots are handy because they offer immunity to spell scrolls level 6 or lower (Caster level 11 + 1d20 = 31 best) thus offering complete immunity to Bigbies Forceful scroll spamming.

New thread http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtop ... 991#695991

Also build more assassins and sun elves! Preferably in the same build.

The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mark II

Who is online