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Something I've been wondering. Is it possible that someone could become a dragon disciple without knowing what kind of dragon they are related to?

I'd be inclined to give tat a tentative 'ye', since it doesn't specify in the rules that one must know.

TormakSaber wrote:

No, Naturals have hybrid as well. They're simply in full control.

Quote:

Finally, a natural lycanthrope (or an afflicted lycanthrope that has become aware of its affliction) can assume a hybrid form that is a mix of its humanoid and animal forms.

Touche.

----

Lycanthropes -are- "shifters" (Actually called Shapechangers). Just not in the sense of the NWN class. A Shapechanger isn't a class, but actually a creature subtype. Kinda like Air, Fire, Earth and Water subtypes and Goblinoid Subtype, etc. etc.

Quick and Straight-foward question.

What are Helm's colours, or colours that are associated with Helm or his Orders?

Banite Clergy wear, surprisingly enough, Black and Red.

As ceremonial outfits, yes.

Drakos_Vek wrote:

Quick and Straight-foward question.

What are Helm's colours, or colours that are associated with Helm or his Orders?

Steel and Red, according to the Web Enhancement for Faiths & Pantheons Do's and Dont's.

Faiths and Pantheons wrote:

Clerics of Helm wear spotless, shining, full plate armor (often with the everbright property) and open-faced helms, often topped with plumes. They may drape this armor with red cloaks and tabards of steel gray, and such garments-or the armor itself - may be adorned with the Unsleeping Eye in the center of both back and breast. In southern regions, Helmite clergy often wear fine full plate set with gems and worked with gold filigree, accentuating great golden eyes set in the centers of both breastplate and back. In areas where heavily armored clerics are frowned on, the armor is reduced to a set of heavy shoulder plates, but the helm always remains.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Something I've been wondering. Is it possible that someone could become a dragon disciple without knowing what kind of dragon they are related to?

I'd say no. You have to know what it is you're turning into to devote your ritualistic energies into becoming it.

TormakSaber wrote:

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Something I've been wondering. Is it possible that someone could become a dragon disciple without knowing what kind of dragon they are related to?

I'd say no. You have to know what it is you're turning into to devote your ritualistic energies into becoming it.

Yes. It was my understanding that the 8 ranks in lore requirement was supposed to represent you researching your heritage in the first place. That, and general information about the dragon race you're becoming a disciple of.

TormakSaber wrote:

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Something I've been wondering. Is it possible that someone could become a dragon disciple without knowing what kind of dragon they are related to?

I'd say no. You have to know what it is you're turning into to devote your ritualistic energies into becoming it.

I didn't think you were trying to become a certain type of DD, just trying to gain access to your latent powers tied into your draconic ancestry, and you get a nice surprise when you find out what said ancestry is.
From what the DMG says it only specifies that you need to know you are of draconic descent, and then the payer chooses which kind (not the character finds out).

Yeah, the DMG is delightfully vague on it. Leaving the DMs to fill in the holes, i.e. us.

I'm going to have to side with Tormak here:

The Dragon Disciple class if I understand it quintessentially helps out bring out the type of blood one has in them. It cannot allow the person to pick what kind of bloodline they are.

Grymia wrote:

I'm going to have to side with Tormak here:

The Dragon Disciple class if I understand it quintessentially helps out bring out the type of blood one has in them. It cannot allow the person to pick what kind of bloodline they are.

I never said it did, I just said that one doesn't need to know what type of dragon it is, simply that there is draconic ancestry.

Yurell wrote:

Grymia wrote:

I'm going to have to side with Tormak here:

The Dragon Disciple class if I understand it quintessentially helps out bring out the type of blood one has in them. It cannot allow the person to pick what kind of bloodline they are.

I never said it did, I just said that one doesn't need to know what type of dragon it is, simply that there is draconic ancestry.

But if they see those changes occurring, do you not think that they might have a look see and figure out what sort of dragon they are becoming? It would be a bit idiotic to see a bronze dragon thinking that it was black dragon in heritage.

divinesaint wrote:

Yurell wrote:

Grymia wrote:

I'm going to have to side with Tormak here:

The Dragon Disciple class if I understand it quintessentially helps out bring out the type of blood one has in them. It cannot allow the person to pick what kind of bloodline they are.

I never said it did, I just said that one doesn't need to know what type of dragon it is, simply that there is draconic ancestry.

But if they see those changes occurring, do you not think that they might have a look see and figure out what sort of dragon they are becoming? It would be a bit idiotic to see a bronze dragon thinking that it was black dragon in heritage.

To become => prior to becoming => before physical signs appear.

I'd expect them to be able to figure it out as soon as there are physical signs, and it'd make interesting RP - a person who'd been told they have gold dragon blood all their life as a sort of family legend starting to grow green scales

You need to know what you are to become a dragon disciple. No semantics. No loopholes.

Can I ask how people routinely discover what dragon ancestor they had a few hundred (or even dozen) generations ago?

That's a barrier for your own personal roleplay to surmount, not me to tell you as a DM.

Okay, just wanted to make sure that was the official DM decision on it. Are those who are already DD's but didn't know previously Grandfathered under this rule?

I highly doubt there is a single dragon disciple on this server that doesn't know they're a dragon disciple and the color. You're making a problem of nothing.

Yurell wrote:

Yaster Galer wrote:

Could someone give me details on what is needed to construct a Shield Guardian?

"A shield guardian is built from wood, bronze, stone and steel. The materials cost 5,000 gp [...] Creating the body requires a DC 16 Caft (blacksmithing) or Craft (carpentry) check. The keyed amulet is fashioned at the same time, and its cost (20,000 gp) is included n the cost of the guardian. After the body is sculpted, he shied guardian is animated through an extended magical ritual that requires a specially prepared laboratory or workroom, similar to an alchemist's laboratory and costing 500 gp to establish. [...]

A shield guardian with more than 15 Hit Dice can be created, but each additional Hit Die adds + 5,000 gp to the market price, and the price increases by +20,000 gp if the creature's size increases to Huge [...]"

You also have to be at least CL 15, the price is 120k gp and the cost is 65k gp + 4.600 XP.

All of the aove was retyped from the Monster Manual.

Since Amia's economic standard isn't much like the mainland's, would it be safe to say all costs would be x10? So 1200k gp and the cost is 650k + the xp? And what sounds like a suitable amount of logs, bronze, stone and steel?

We don't typically overcharge for things like building golems. Not unless you want them to be strong golems.

Last edited by Yurell on Mon, Nov 30 2009, 8:24 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Yaster Galer wrote:

Since Amia's economic standard isn't much like the mainland's, would it be safe to say all costs would be x10? So 1200k gp and the cost is 650k + the xp? And what sounds like a suitable amount of logs, bronze, stone and steel?

Since Amia's economic standing isn't much like the mainland's I'd say put in a request via the DMs and see what they say.

Edit: Ninja'd

I don't want this one to be much bigger than a human really, I was planning on getting two over time, the second being a full sized one.

It can probably be ironed out when it comes time for you to make the requests but we don't artificially inflate golem prices generally unless it's an extremely powerful golem, like I said.

Sounds good to me, thanks.

Is there any particularly nasty diseases in the realms? The type that can't be fixed with magic, or at least not easily?

Oh, bonus points if it's disfiguring and/or physically crippling.

There's the Chaos Curse, that was created by Talonites.

Not really, no. There's basically nothing a Remove Disease or a Restoration won't fix.

Greater Restoration fixes EVERYTHING. Including things like mundane blindness, insanity, etc.

D20SRD.org Mummy Rot wrote:

Mummy Rot (Su)
Supernatural disease—slam, Fortitude save (DC 21), incubation period 1 minute; damage 1d6 Con and 1d6 Cha. The save DC is Charisma-based. Unlike normal diseases, mummy rot continues until the victim reaches Constitution 0 (and dies) or is cured as described below. Mummy rot is a powerful curse, not a natural disease. A character attempting to cast any conjuration (healing) spell on a creature afflicted with mummy rot must succeed on a DC 20 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the afflicted character. To eliminate mummy rot, the curse must first be broken with break enchantment or remove curse (requiring a DC 20 caster level check for either spell), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to cast healing spells on the victim, and the mummy rot can be magically cured as any normal disease.

That;s the only really nasty disease I know of off the top of my head. I'd imagine your flesh rotting while you're still alive would be quite disfiguring and crippling. Unfortunately for you, it'd be easily destroyed on Amia.

Hmm... I was interested in playing a character either suffering from the long term effects of a disease (thus I wanted something that he'd ICly be able to get fixed up easily), or suffering from the debilitating after affects of a disease (in which case it'd be damage that couldn't be easily fixed by magic).

I'm not sure if that makes it any easier to figure something out?

Also, would there be any DM accepted loopholes I might be able to use? Any sort of IC reason why normal healing magics don't apply to this paticular disease (or the affect effects of it if I go that route).

You can choose just to RP it not working. In a high magic setting like FR (Amia especially), most diseases are redundant if you're exceptionally wealthy or surrounded by high level clerics.

If it's your RP thing to have a chronic disease, just say that the healing doesn't work.

If I'm going to do that I'd want to at least have a half-plausible IC reason for it not to work.

I was originally thinking I might tie it to the Time of Troubles... especially since I just noticed that with the intended age of the character he would actually of been born during that year...

Would any of the DMs mind if I were to just call it a magical birth defect or some-such brought on from all the chaos that was happening at the time?

Talonite cells have access to special diseases that cannot usually be cured by normal or magical means. Usually, they require something more, like destroying the rotten source, etc...

Yeah, there's nothing stopping you from RPing that a Greater Restore doesn't do the job. Greater Restore is so freely available (in spells, potions and fountains) that it would ruin this aspect of FR life.

soundofastream wrote:

Talonite cells have access to special diseases that cannot usually be cured by normal or magical means. Usually, they require something more, like destroying the rotten source, etc...

What source did you get that from?

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing stopping you from RPing that a Greater Restore doesn't do the job. Greater Restore is so freely available (in spells, potions and fountains) that it would ruin this aspect of FR life.

soundofastream wrote:

Talonite cells have access to special diseases that cannot usually be cured by normal or magical means. Usually, they require something more, like destroying the rotten source, etc...

What source did you get that from?

Its a common theme in most stories relating to Talonites. E.g., The Canticle Chronicles Book 1 (The Chaos Curse) and also, again in Lady of Poison (Priests Series). Its repeated in NwN solo adventure, in the Underdark temple of Talona as part of a series of tests. The theme is quite common and therefore, one can assume that Talona aids her followers with such spells or poisons or diseases in various ways...

I'd prefer real sources, not assumptions. I doubt they tried Greater Restoration in Canticle or Lady of Poison, either.

Most of the plagues and outbreaks you hear of in books occur because there isn't a spare seventh or eighth level spell slot standing on every street corner.

And a healthy amount of "Author Says So."

TormakSaber wrote:

I'd prefer real sources, not assumptions. I doubt they tried Greater Restoration in Canticle or Lady of Poison, either.

This is why I ask if there's a DM approved option. Is there anything you can think of our anything you'd agree is a legitimate reason?

I'm rather shy on creating a character if the concept isn't seen as valid by the DM team.

If you want your character to suffer from a flaw such as an illness, or blindness, or insanity, no DM will give you crap because you don't allow greater restoration to heal it.

Yep. Technically, what you see is what you get. Greater Restoration does what it does, that is, removes mechanical penalties supported in NWN. You could plausibly say it does not cure lost limbs, because you won't get your arm back with GR if it was LETOed off, nor will your peg leg armor model change. Likewise, if your disease is something that's not on the list of NWN effects cured by these spells, you can say the spell doesn't work on it. It's not for you to explain why the clerics' spells fail - if they want to assume their spells are a cure-all, it's their job to rationalize why their god suddenly can't fix everything.

d20SRD says, though:

Remove Disease wrote:

Certain special diseases may not be countered by this spell or may be countered only by a caster of a certain level or higher.

Lesser Restoration wrote:

Lesser restoration dispels any magical effects reducing one of the subject’s ability scores or cures 1d4 points of temporary ability damage to one of the subject’s ability scores. It also eliminates any fatigue suffered by the character, and improves an exhausted condition to fatigued. It does not restore permanent ability drain.

Restoration wrote:

This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it also dispels negative levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained. [...] Restoration cures all temporary ability damage, and it restores all points permanently drained from a single ability score (your choice if more than one is drained). It also eliminates any fatigue or exhaustion suffered by the target.

This spell functions like lesser restoration, except that it dispels all negative levels afflicting the healed creature. This effect also reverses level drains by a force or creature, restoring the creature to the highest level it had previously attained. The drained levels are restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is no more than one week per caster level.

Greater Restoration wrote:

Greater restoration also dispels all magical effects penalizing the creature’s abilities, cures all temporary ability damage, and restores all points permanently drained from all ability scores. It also eliminates fatigue and exhaustion, and removes all forms of insanity, confusion, and similar mental effects. Greater restoration does not restore levels or Constitution points lost due to death.

You may note that there are special diseases Remove Disease cannot cure. No mention of diseases is mentioned in relation to the Restoration spells. If the disease was a magical effect penalizing ability scores, GR would take care of it. If, however, the disease is not a magical effect and/or does not penalize ability scores (and isn't an insanity, though that's very dubious and open to interpretion - the definition of insanity is relative), Greater Restoration won't help. It might remove the symptoms of the disease that have caused penalties so far, but the disease itself might very well survive and cause new symptoms.

Mkay, thank you everyone for all the feed back. I think I'm gonna try and iron out all the other details of the character tonight so he should be kicking about in game rather soon.

You don't even need a reason for it to not work on an OOC level, unless you want to leave the possibility for it to be healable (in which case you can always introduce a reason later). On an IC level, it doesn't really stretch suspension of disbelief:

"Why don't you go to the Salandran Temple to get yourself healed?"
"I did ... nothing seems to work."
"Why not?"
"If I knew that, I would have been healed."

Is it essential for a Shifter to follow a nature God in order to shift?

Nope. Even a "Fallen Druid" can still shapeshift.

If you go by PnP the only thing required to be a shifter is to have some form of natural shapeshifting, which unfortunatly in NWN is only druids

Guxx wrote:

Mkay, thank you everyone for all the feed back. I think I'm gonna try and iron out all the other details of the character tonight so he should be kicking about in game rather soon.

I know you already got your answer but I would like to mention a good example. Well, I think it is a good one.

In the PnP campaign I am playing, my PC asked a NPC why he does not see a cleric about healing his sight (he is miope - sp?) and he said that he has it from birth and the gods gave it for a reason. Even if it can be cured, he doesn't want to defy the will of the gods, nor tempt their wrath.

EDIT: Ye gods, I forgot to add. His explanation is good enough (IC, I mean, for my PC) because he is a good warrior who is aware of his condition and fails sometimes, but is never giving up and is always improving himself, to prove that he can do it to the gods and whoever else thinks him inefficient.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Guxx wrote:

Mkay, thank you everyone for all the feed back. I think I'm gonna try and iron out all the other details of the character tonight so he should be kicking about in game rather soon.

I know you already got your answer but I would like to mention a good example. Well, I think it is a good one.

In the PnP campaign I am playing, my PC asked a NPC why he does not see a cleric about healing his sight (he is miope - sp?) and he said that he has it from birth and the gods gave it for a reason. Even if it can be cured, he doesn't want to defy the will of the gods, nor tempt their wrath.

EDIT: Ye gods, I forgot to add. His explanation is good enough (IC, I mean, for my PC) because he is a good warrior who is aware of his condition and fails sometimes, but is never giving up and is always improving himself, to prove that he can do it to the gods and whoever else thinks him inefficient.

To add, the character's condition wouldn't necessarily have to be played as a "drawback" all the time.

My example: A fellow I used to play PnP with had a gruff mercenary-type character. He had an eye missing. Knowing that any half-observing enemy would try to sneak up on him from his "weak side", he RPed as him often using it to draw an enemy out. In other words, having an obvious weakness, and then waiting for them to attack it. Suprise attack their surprise attack.

You could also use it as a ploy. "Oh, you think I killed the guard? Lil' ol' me with the bum leg, the lisp, and the hacking cough?" :wink:

Those are my two bits.

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