AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - ... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

Spilled Wine and Wine bottle have an issue, as if part of the plc were missing. No redness.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

Just been poking about in the toolset, there is still the issue of the Black 1.69 Large Shield being overwritten:

Hakless Mod: http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8243 ... rd02sw.jpg
Mod with Hak: http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4327 ... rd01bf.jpg

Fixable? :idea:

Yes. Forgot to look at it last time you mentioned it. There's something fishy with the shields anyway.

Phearnun wrote:

Spilled Wine and Wine bottle have an issue, as if part of the plc were missing. No redness.

Yeah, I notice I miss more textures. I often don't know where the PLC originally came from, though...

Also, did you add instruments, and if yes, how do I test them?

Yes, I did. I'll add them to the module's shop. I'll also add a level up script so people can test the class changes. These are, in short:

Assassin gets the following feats:

Feat: True Strike
Description: This feat functions like the spell of the same name, giving the attacker a +20 bonus to their attack rolls for nine seconds.
Gained At: Assassin level 3. Granted automatically.

Feat: Fox's Cunning
Description: See above
Gained At: Assassin Level 4. Granted Automatically.

Feat: Cat's Grace
Description: See above
Gained At: Assassin Level 6, automatically.

Feat: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Description: See above
Gained At: Assassin Level 8, Granted Automatically

Blackguard gets the following feats:

Feat: Eagle's Splendor
Description: See above
Gained At: Blackguard Level 4, Automatically

Feat: Magic Circle Vs. Good
Description: See above
Gained At: Blackguard level 7, automatically

Feat: Divine Favor
Description: See above
Gained At: Blackguard level 10, automatically

Caster levels are swapped for Assassin/BG levels.

DD gets the following feats:

Resist Poison at level 5
Resist Disease at level 10
The option to take Perfect Health (Com 25+ required) from level 10

Druid gets Magic Weapon, Flame Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon in their spellbook

All casting classes get empty spells in their list. They only show VFX and do nothing. I can use those for DC spells that really act like spells.

The monk/SD/RDD nerfs do not need LETO anymore.

Anyway, please test all of this.

The bottles are not missing a texture, btw. Their texture is just messy. Will have a look at using another one.

Quote:

The option to take Perfect Health (Com 25+ required) from level 10

Clarification: We made it show up in your list at 10 DwD and forever beyond, so in theory you should be able to take it in epic DwD without needing the 25 con, should you choose to. We tried giving it automatically and it wasn't playing nice so making the feat freely available was the next best thing.

Out of curiousity, why does the druid get GMW and flameweapon? Seems a bit iffy to me. Well flameweapon i understand but GMW?

DD: as disease is already useless, shouldnt that be gotten at 5 and resist poison moved to 10. You should get better stuff as you level up.

How about GMW for the BG at 10 instead of Divine Favour or would that make BG too powerful?

Dev Disco wrote:

All casting classes get empty spells in their list. They only show VFX and do nothing. I can use those for DC spells that really act like spells.

The monk/SD/RDD nerfs do not need LETO anymore.

This part is awesome ... I look forward to that (and I'll be living in my PHB looking up Bard spells

).

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Out of curiousity, why does the druid get GMW and flameweapon? Seems a bit iffy to me. Well flameweapon i understand but GMW?

DD: as disease is already useless, shouldnt that be gotten at 5 and resist poison moved to 10. You should get better stuff as you level up.

How about GMW for the BG at 10 instead of Divine Favour or would that make BG too powerful?

They get GMW because a Druid's spells are a nod towards party and external buffing more than themselves, and GMW is an essential party buff.

They get Flame Weapon as a nod to 3.5 where they become the ONLY class with Flame Weapon. Also along the party buff lines mentioned above.

Disease/Poison: Arbitrary order. No reason to put it one way or the other. Both can be equally lethal.

I never noticed. Do the Dragon Disciples get bonus attacks due to Bite and Claws?

If so, is it already originally implemented? If not, any chance it would be with haks?

EDIT:

Disco wrote:

The monk/SD/RDD nerfs do not need LETO anymore.

Does this mean that if I want to delevel my RDD, I will not have those problems that happened in the past?

EDIT 2: Everything worked for me. As far as I know, the only bug I had was the first new area getting some sort of blue stripe in the screen, but when I zoomed in and out again, it was not there anymore.

(Thumbnail)

... can assassins also be given full BAB? they need that desperately

I'd die and go to heaven if I could get bite and claw attacks and animations to go with it.

Dwarven Defender is even better now? Eesh, guys. I don't get this at all.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Does this mean that if I want to delevel my RDD, I will not have those problems that happened in the past?

Don't think so, i think RDD stays bugged for deleveling thanks to the ability changes.

It means Monks and SD's can be safely delevelled. (going below monk 3 will now take your monk AC away)

And it means you dont get booted anymore when you level up your character.

If haks could fix RDD delevelling ... *trails off wistfully*

If HAKs could fix the messy "add 8 STR and subtract 4" routine while we're at it, that'd be swell.

xordae wrote:

Dwarven Defender is even better now? Eesh, guys. I don't get this at all.

I hardly think a +4 saves vs poison and disease is breaking the bank. It's the only thng they got. If you want Perfect Health, you still have to select it as a feat. you can simply choose it without the 25 CON once you're an epic DwD.

xordae wrote:

If HAKs could fix the messy "add 8 STR and subtract 4" routine while we're at it, that'd be swell.

I doubt it does that. You can test it yourself, though. The test mod has none of that scripting, just the class changes by HAK and you get level 30 when you enter it.

Tormak: Oops, I read that as Poison/Disease Immunity.

Disco: I was referring to the system that's been in place for years now. I know that one adds the vanilla NWN RDD properties and subtracts the Custom Stuff, because there were some loopholes that made it not subtract the 4. Likewise you could take Dev Crit while your perceived max STR was below the requirements.

Atm I can't test anything, my computer is on the fritz.

Pardon for repeating myself, but... is this possible?

BlackDahlya wrote:

I never noticed. Do Dragon Disciples get bonus attacks due to Bite and Claws?

If so, is it already originally implemented? If not, any chance it would be with haks?

TormakSaber wrote:

They get GMW because a Druid's spells are a nod towards party and external buffing more than themselves, and GMW is an essential party buff.

They get Flame Weapon as a nod to 3.5 where they become the ONLY class with Flame Weapon. Also along the party buff lines mentioned above.

Disease/Poison: Arbitrary order. No reason to put it one way or the other. Both can be equally lethal.

How come 3.5 applies in certain situations but not others? That has always puzzled me. Anyway, yes druids are focused on party buffing. However, all giving them GMW and FW means is that we'll now see a bunch of druids now running about with +5, FW'ed scimiters. GMW also enroaches upon the mages territory. Personally, I would have thought the addition of cats grace, etc would have been more appropriate to druid flavour, as well as tweaking their elemental forms but *shrugs*.

I have never ever died due to disease. I have only died from poison due to not wearing a certain ring (which should probably be altered to give +x saves to poison). As useless as these effects both are poison >>>> Disease.

Out of curiousity, the assassins true strike feat? It casts as a normal spell right rather than being instantaneous?

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

I have never ever died due to disease. I have only died from poison due to not wearing a certain ring (which should probably be altered to give +x saves to poison). As useless as these effects both are poison >>>> Disease.

Or you could drink a certain potion and be immune to both.

BlackDahlya wrote:

Pardon for repeating myself, but... is this possible?

BlackDahlya wrote:

I never noticed. Do Dragon Disciples get bonus attacks due to Bite and Claws?

If so, is it already originally implemented? If not, any chance it would be with haks?

No clue how to do that. It's also very iffy lorewise. I doubt that the majority of the RDD's even has longer nails or more teeth than the average humanoid. They certainly don't look that way on our server.

I'd be more tempted to give kobolds the bite bonus and goblins a poisonous touch due to poor hygiene.

Can you test the new HAK, btw. See if the graphic lag is less now? I already heard promising comments about that.

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Out of curiousity, the assassins true strike feat? It casts as a normal spell right rather than being instantaneous?

Download HAK and test in test module?

Dev Disco wrote:

No clue how to do that. It's also very iffy lorewise. I doubt that the majority of the RDD's even has longer nails or more teeth than the average humanoid. They certainly don't look that way on our server.

Not iffy lorewise. They get them in PnP at lvl 2 (DMG p. 184).

Dev Disco wrote:

BlackDahlya wrote:

Pardon for repeating myself, but... is this possible?

BlackDahlya wrote:

I never noticed. Do Dragon Disciples get bonus attacks due to Bite and Claws?

If so, is it already originally implemented? If not, any chance it would be with haks?

No clue how to do that. It's also very iffy lorewise. I doubt that the majority of the RDD's even has longer nails or more teeth than the average humanoid. They certainly don't look that way on our server.

I'd be more tempted to give kobolds the bite bonus and goblins a poisonous touch due to poor hygiene.

Can you test the new HAK, btw. See if the graphic lag is less now? I already heard promising comments about that.

Oh, I already tested!

My only problem with lag was the only room with a lot of creatures. I think it was... the second to the right at the entry door.

As for bite and claw attack, according to the DMG, where the DD prestige class is first entered, the table shows them at the second level.

I do not have a halfdragon template, but if halfdragons can use bite and claw attack, at level 10 dragon disciples also get that ability, since they reach their "apotheosis" and get the halfdragon template.

BlackDahlya wrote:

I do not have a halfdragon template, but if halfdragons can use bite and claw attack, at level 10 dragon disciples also get that ability, since they reach their "apotheosis" and get the halfdragon template.

They can (MM p. 146)

Well, first of all... I don't know how to do it so the point is rather moot. Secondly, when I read teh various RDD entries in the various sourcebooks I could come to one conclusion: DnD is still made by idiots with the attention span of a demented ant. One says A, one says B, and most of it doesn't make sense anyway.

For example: the disciple showing on page 183 of the DMG has 'claws', but if those do any damage you'd better watch out for old ladies who don't cut their nails. The disciple in question also has a normal human mouth. Imagine having a fight, say with a sword, while you also try (every 6 seconds!) to bite a person.

Once again: nice idea in DnD land, but either make the decision to transform an RDD into a walking lizard with real claws and a big mouth which can't use weapons in the end, or stick with humanoid and accept that if a dragon has X it doesn't mean the disciple has X.

I want to see "Starts laying an egg in the morning" at level 5 if any of you don't agree with me.

Dev Disco wrote:

Well, first of all... I don't know how to do it so the point is rather moot. Secondly, when I read teh various RDD entries in the various sourcebooks I could come to one conclusion: DnD is still made by idiots with the attention span of a demented ant. One says A, one says B, and most of it doesn't make sense anyway.

For example: the disciple showing on page 183 of the DMG has 'claws', but if those do any damage you'd better watch out for old ladies who don't cut their nails. The disciple in question also has a normal human mouth. Imagine having a fight, say with a sword, while you also try (every 6 seconds!) to bite a person.

Once again: nice idea in DnD land, but either make the decision to transform an RDD into a walking lizard with real claws and a big mouth which can't use weapons in the end, or stick with humanoid and accept that if a dragon has X it doesn't mean the disciple has X.

I want to see "Starts laying an egg in the morning" at level 5 if any of you don't agree with me.

Or you could take the rules to be canon, and the images just from imagination?

Last edited by Dev Disco on Thu, Jan 14 2010, 9:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Well, in that case: take a good look at the RDD stats in PnP and think about tactics vs strategy.

I do think we can actually make a RDD class that is delevel proof by swapping the RDD stat increase feats with the stat increase feats like Great Strength. Not sure if that works pre-epic, but it's worth a try.

Dev Disco wrote:

Well, first of all... I don't know how to do it so the point is rather moot. Secondly, when I read teh various RDD entries in the various sourcebooks I could come to one conclusion: DnD is still made by idiots with the attention span of a demented ant. One says A, one says B, and most of it doesn't make sense anyway.

For example: the disciple showing on page 183 of the DMG has 'claws', but if those do any damage you'd better watch out for old ladies who don't cut their nails. The disciple in question also has a normal human mouth. Imagine having a fight, say with a sword, while you also try (every 6 seconds!) to bite a person.

Once again: nice idea in DnD land, but either make the decision to transform an RDD into a walking lizard with real claws and a big mouth which can't use weapons in the end, or stick with humanoid and accept that if a dragon has X it doesn't mean the disciple has X.

I want to see "Starts laying an egg in the morning" at level 5 if any of you don't agree with me.

This made me giggle. :P

Anyway, at level 10 Dragon Disciples get the half-dragon template and since they get claws and bite attack, I believe they can perform such acts.

As for how, you have to use your imagination. >_>;;

But it was only a curious question. If it is possible to add that, it would be fun. If not, it is fine.

Well, I thought a bit more about this on the bike and I guess I know why it isn't implemented, and shouldn't be implemented.

If you use this ability in PnP ("I use my extra claw attack now") your DM will mind little details like you making attacks with your longsword and shield in the same round. You obviously can't do both as you need to free at least one hand to make the attack, which will cost you an action. So, you do get an extra MODE of attacking, not an extra round (unless you are in bare handed combat).

In NWN however this extra attack would be added to your usual number of attacks, every round, irrespective of what you are doing. So, your claws and teeth would allow you two more attacks a round with any weapon, and that's clearly not what was intended.

Dev Disco wrote:

Well, I thought a bit more about this on the bike and I guess I know why it isn't implemented, and shouldn't be implemented.

If you use this ability in PnP ("I use my extra claw attack now") your DM will mind little details like you making attacks with your longsword and shield in the same round. You obviously can't do both as you need to free at least one hand to make the attack, which will cost you an action. So, you do get an extra MODE of attacking, not an extra round (unless you are in bare handed combat).

In NWN however this extra attack would be added to your usual number of attacks, every round, irrespective of what you are doing. So, your claws and teeth would allow you two more attacks a round with any weapon, and that's clearly not what was intended.

I think that's fair enough, and a 'claw / bite' mode would never be used. Although it would be good if you could change unarmed DD attacks to claw + bite ... that would be interesting.

Yurell wrote:

Dev Disco wrote:

Well, I thought a bit more about this on the bike and I guess I know why it isn't implemented, and shouldn't be implemented.

If you use this ability in PnP ("I use my extra claw attack now") your DM will mind little details like you making attacks with your longsword and shield in the same round. You obviously can't do both as you need to free at least one hand to make the attack, which will cost you an action. So, you do get an extra MODE of attacking, not an extra round (unless you are in bare handed combat).

In NWN however this extra attack would be added to your usual number of attacks, every round, irrespective of what you are doing. So, your claws and teeth would allow you two more attacks a round with any weapon, and that's clearly not what was intended.

I think that's fair enough, and a 'claw / bite' mode would never be used. Although it would be good if you could change unarmed DD attacks to claw + bite ... that would be interesting.

My DD is too vain, anyway, to bite off stuff. He does not even uses his breath weapon. :P

Dev Disco wrote:

I got a new test hak ready. The test server runs in the usual directory and is called Amia Hak test. It doesn't use the Amia character vault and is just plain NWN without any scripts. Direct Connection addy is the same as usual on port number 5123.

I have three download flavours, based on ease of use and bandwidth considerations:

I got plenty bandwidth and little brains
Self installer, 175 MB
http://www.amiaworld.net/hak/amia_hak.exe

I got as much bandwidth as brains
Single 7zip archive, 75 MB
http://staff.science.uva.nl/~dcslob/hak/amia_hak.7z

I got little bandwidth and plenty brains
8 part 7zip archive, 75 MB
http://staff.science.uva.nl/~dcslob/hak/parts/

The self-installer does all the work by itself. The files in the 7zip archives need to be placed in the proper folders: the .hak files go in the /hak/ folder of your NWN installation and the .tlk file goes in the /tlk/ folder. I assume that you know how to deal with segmented archives if you download the plenty brains option.

Alright. Here are my findings on :5123 late last night. I forgot my notes at home this morning, so this is what I recall.

Creatures : oh, my... Fantastic !
same as reported above : I had lag when approaching one room full of critters (first one on the right I think). second time I went in this lag disappeared though.
Not much to report about these but "great addition" ! ah yes : one black creature (looks like an alien) has a chicken icon... not really fitting, but I had a good laugh though...

Placeables : very nice visuals ! no error logged in the room. only issue with the skull throne and the mushrooms, which are not solid and one can go through them. Alsom the "japanese" temple is solid and you can't walk between wall and pilars in the corners. not a big problem really.

tileset : walking in the city "old tileset section" sometimes results in walking in the sky ? walking forward a few steps would put me back on the ground though. I was using the chase cam. Will send screenies later.

No issue in the other tilesets which are great ! The castle texture is splendid.

Items : the wizard hat is described as a cloak and goes to the cloak inventory ?
The null cloak should probably use a different icon, as it's same as fortification cloak (which is probably the most used at the moment in Amia ?)
The spears (incl.trident) are ALL one-handed (my druid could equip a shield). only one long stick prevented me from using a shield. can't recall which unfortunately.
The beer mug could be used to hit the shop keeper. bad move on my part. while critters do not react, HE started to fight me. I had to let him kill me so as not to ruin the test server...

Spells : tried the new (blank) druid spells. fancy vfx really. can you fix the description or does it have to be journalled ? could icons be colored slightly differently so as to figure which ones are activated and which ones are there 'just in case' ?
I tried Flame weapon, Magical Weapon and GMW with my druid. I will try again tonight but I think Flame Weapon didn't do anything to the stats of my sickle. the vfx is there though.

Two other things :
1/ upon entry I leveled and was offered a feat. I pressed recommended and to my surprise it suggested Greater Spell Penetration. I am definitely a weak builder but... do druids get 'basic' spell penetration feat upon creation ?

2/ I should have started with this one obviously : being on a mac, I disregarded option 1 (download .exe compressed file) and went for option 2.
Using Safari as a browser, the .7z package wouldn't load properly (random characters open in an htm window instead of dowloading a file). Using firefox it worked.
Splendid compression really. great job ! might want to give a warning about required disk size : 600Mb is quite big.
The .7z file was decompressed using Unarchiver. I will provide you a link as I think this is not included as standard with MacOs.

I had one error on entry : the .tlk file I forgot to put in a /tlk/ subdirectory... actually there is no such subdirectory in my Mac install. the standard nwn.tlk (or whatever its name) is located in my main NwN directory. After creating this /tlk/ subfolder and moving the hak.tlk file the game loaded just fine.

I will check my notes again tonight and will get back to you if I see anything else. GREAT STUFF already and no critical error, great compression for the hak download and a test module up and running already. kudos to you !

Linlan

Flame weapon worked properly in the test hak and mod I tested. No clue about the Greater Spell Pen.

Might have the answer for the Flame Weapon. The Test Mod for the hak doesn't have all the scripts and changes Amia has. Flame weapon is still applied as its default. You need to actually examine the weapon to see the Flame Weapon property.

Yes, when I say "worked properly" I mean it applied the Bioware version. IT is still working properly in context.

Keep testing. I keep finding little issues myself and that's with my usual minimalistic check routine.

Just keep this in mind: if there are server bugs in the hack all of you have to download the whole lot again. This is not the usual 'fix it in the mix' thing.

I fixed the following (on my side, you don't see the fixes):

* added missing horror and mushroom walkmeshes
* replaced broken mimosa/plant door
* replaced wine textures in plc and bar tray item
* swapped some duplicate weapon textures (top 4 is often the same as top 1)
* fixed translucent scimitar blades
* added missing Rural Winter II and Desert II minimaps
* made spear one-handed again and reverted to usual stats
* updated Trident description to 1d8 crits x2

I'll make sure I offer rar or zip to Mac users.

Maul style Heavy Flail does not show visual effect. Doesnt burn with Flame Weapon etc.

I am not surprised. It takes the settings of Heavy Flail so it'd be rather weird looking anyway.

3 times the floating bug hit, though only shortly.

Mahtan Tasadur wrote:

Might have the answer for the Flame Weapon. The Test Mod for the hak doesn't have all the scripts and changes Amia has. Flame weapon is still applied as its default. You need to actually examine the weapon to see the Flame Weapon property.

TormakSaber wrote:

Yes, when I say "worked properly" I mean it applied the Bioware version. IT is still working properly in context.

aaww...

alright. yes it works then.

Druid & Spell Penetration feat : no issue (same on Amia...)

items :
- the icons for a few shields (mostly tower shields) and for the chair are slightly unadjusted compared to inventory grid. not a big problem.
- the shovel is a two-hander ? would be great to carry a bucket in left hand !
- the chair is not useable by my druid (shows red in inventory)
-description of horned ring, beer mug, lute and book probably need be fixed. same for most of Miscellaneous items.
-mouse over the new ale bottle gives odd result (partial transparency)

placeables : odd visual when reaching the door to the placeable room ? looks like something is flying inside the door ?

tileset : missing red arrows in city exterior map made me miss a few great tilesets (rural, interior etc).
Still flying in one spot of the city exterior, and over most of rural exterior. Same thing happens in first room (only) of Various interiors.

Great tilesets ! (the rural and forest screens are splendid)
more tomorrow !

Linlan

I will test again, more thoroughly. But weird how I did not get the floating bug. The most I got was a blue stripe that appeared when I zoomed out, but as I zoomed in and out again it was gone.

I noticed the wrong descriptions, but did not say anything about them because I thought it was going to be fixed when the HAK was official. I could be wrong, but to my thinking the items with wrong descriptions were there just so we could check the visuals, not the descriptions.

Now that I know I was wrong, I will check them again, though I would not be surprised if all the possible bugs were already reported.

EDIT: Typos and grammar. Damnit.

The Chair is a martial weapon.

About this flying. I think its wierd it hasn't been noticed before. Especially in the indoor area where it throws you straight up at the start.

Its almost as if someone has done something to break it. :idea:

I'm pointing the finger at me.

I took Paladin levels on my test character. And used them to summon a horse. Which I rode thru the module. These tilesets wouldn't have been designed for horses. I wonder if I messed up the pathfinding or something like by riding one.

Btw. "Rural Interior" has no map, like the Winter Fort one you fixed.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

About this flying. I think its wierd it hasn't been noticed before. Especially in the indoor area where it throws you straight up at the start.

Its almost as if someone has done something to break it. :idea:

I'm pointing the finger at me.

I took Paladin levels on my test character. And used them to summon a horse. Which I rode thru the module. These tilesets wouldn't have been designed for horses. I wonder if I messed up the pathfinding or something like by riding one.

Btw. "Rural Interior" has no map, like the Winter Fort one you fixed.

Horse or not horse, we noticed that the catapulting to the sky happened in some areas of the module were there was tall grass and suddenly no grass just a couple of inches to the side, or walking through dead trees.

Winter 2 has no map, by the way. I am taking some screenies and will either edit this post later to include them or make a new one.

linlan wrote:

I had one error on entry : the .tlk file I forgot to put in a /tlk/ subdirectory... actually there is no such subdirectory in my Mac install. the standard nwn.tlk (or whatever its name) is located in my main NwN directory. After creating this /tlk/ subfolder and moving the hak.tlk file the game loaded just fine.

You need to make the folder ... the standard tlk is in the main directory for the PC install as well.

Alright. Instead of editting my other post, I am making a new one with a few screenies of a few bugs I got. They are all thumbnails!

CnD (Cloak and Dagger) and I noticed that we were catapulted to the sky when passing through exactly that area we are both standing on in a screeny, and then the next we are above it.

I got flying here when I passed through the dead trees...

...but CnD thinks it might have something to do with the grass: tall on a side, nonexistant on the other side. We would be catapulted to the sky when crossing those different areas:

Here we were flying as soon as we got to the area.

No minimap here

Shield shows in a way in the inventory, but another way when equipped:

Random white stripes on the minimap here:

CnD mounted a horse on the new tilesets too and we left and re-entered the areas. In not a single moment we were flying. It might not have anything to do with the horse, after all.

Those are all I could find for now.

EDIT: Also, did you remove the other Underdark tileset, Disco? That one with the narrow corridor?

I was also musing, just for the sake of nitpicking: should the chair not be simple weapons instead of martial? I mean, any drunkard can use them as weapon, they should not need skill to equip one and bash it against someone else's head. >_>;;

The flying stuff are caused by compiling errors, apparently. Keep checking I am replacing those tiles with the non-compiled versions.

... so you thought permadeath was controversial? HAK time!

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